Centerpiece fish for 40g bowfront?

[SavTheArtist]

My new 40g bowfront feels kinda empty with just my mollies and kuhlis.

My stocking plan is:

5-6 mollies
2 black kuhlis
6 neon tetras
4-5 emerald green cories
1 BN/clown pleco

What would be a good peaceful centerpiece fish? I really like powder blue gouramis, and IME, they are pretty passive and chill. Would one of them work?

 

[Nataku]

Powder blue is just a color morph of a dwarf gourami. I personally am not a fan of dwarf gourami due to their tendency towards illness and because they often can get nasty with tank mates.

I dont usually reccomend mixing kuhlis and corydoras - they're both bottom feeders and the corydoras usually outcompete the kuhlis. I'd do one, or the other, and then up the school size of whichever one of those you went with.

Mollies will get fairly sizable on their own. A centerpiece that will play well with them without overloading the tank? Hmm. Perhaps a male blue gularis killifish (f. Sjoestedti)? Or a single male pearl gourami.

 

[SavTheArtist]

Powder blue is just a color morph of a dwarf gourami. I personally am not a fan of dwarf gourami due to their tendency towards illness and because they often can get nasty with tank mates.

I dont usually reccomend mixing kuhlis and corydoras - they're both bottom feeders and the corydoras usually outcompete the kuhlis. I'd do one, or the other, and then up the school size of whichever one of those you went with.

Mollies will get fairly sizable on their own. A centerpiece that will play well with them without overloading the tank? Hmm. Perhaps a male blue gularis killifish (f. Sjoestedti)? Or a single male pearl gourami.

Thank you for your advice!

I've been talking to others on another thread, and I was told that the kuhlis and cories wouldn't outcompete each other. I actually proposed that as my main concern.

My mollies are pretty much fully grown and are barely 2.5" to 3".

Sadly I am limited to the fish sold at my LFS, so I can't get one of those killis. They are beautiful though!

 

[blennylover2323]

Definitely recommended a pearl gourami, they are peaceful and beautiful!!

 

[redmare]

I think you should get more kuhlis! up to at least 6, I would say. I also think you should up the neon school to at least 12, you've got lots of room in there. For a centerpiece, you could do a trio of honey gouramis, a pearl gourami, or a blue/three spot gourami if you like the gouramis. Man my brain is full of codeine and I can't think of any more centerpieces...

 

[SavTheArtist]

Definitely recommended a pearl gourami, they are peaceful and beautiful!!

I think you should get more kuhlis! up to at least 6, I would say. I also think you should up the neon school to at least 12, you've got lots of room in there. For a centerpiece, you could do a trio of honey gouramis, a pearl gourami, or a blue/three spot gourami if you like the gouramis. Man my brain is full of codeine and I can't think of any more centerpieces...

I like pearls! Might go with one of them.

Sorry no more kuhlis. My boys are happy as is

I don't want too much activity in the tank so I'm gonna try and stick with less neons.

 

[redmare]

If you want a low activity tank, you should think about a few angels! I think 2 or 3 would be happy in there (but I am no expert) and they are the pinnacle of sit still, look pretty

 

[SavTheArtist]

If you want a low activity tank, you should think about a few angels! I think 2 or 3 would be happy in there (but I am no expert) and they are the pinnacle of sit still, look pretty

I've considered angels! I just don't know about multiple, as IME they're aggressive.

 

[blennylover2323]

you could get maybe 2 female pearls, they will go nicely with the stock. angels will eat the neons so if you were going to buy angels then don't get the neons.

 

[AquaticQueen]

If you want a low activity tank, you should think about a few angels! I think 2 or 3 would be happy in there (but I am no expert) and they are the pinnacle of sit still, look pretty

Three angels shouldn't be kept together. Two will likely pair off and kill the third.
Just a heads up

....angels will eat the neons so if you were going to buy angels then don't get the neons.

Not entirely true. If you get angels as juveniles and they grow up with the neons, you shouldn't have a problem. Regular feedings always help too so they don't go looking for a snack.
There are two cases,
1. I have had angels for a long time and I added neons and they got eaten.
2. I bought neons and angels as juveniles, they grew up together, and they lived harmoniously their entire lives.
This is from research and other people's experiences.

 

[redmare]

Three angels shouldn't be kept together. Two will likely pair off and kill the third.
Just a heads up

i did not know this! thank you!

 

[Leeman75]

Another vote for Pearl Gouramis. Very pretty fish. Docile, beautiful coloring. Every once in a while my 2 will chase each other, but they're not serious about anything and it doesn't spill over to any other fish.

I have had 3 Angels in a 55. They did ok. I had them since they were quarter-sized and by the time I got rid of them, they were about the size of the palm of my hand. They had skirmishes from time to time and it seemed to be getting more often. I would not recommend getting 3 to anyone given my experience. I also don't really think my 55 was tall enough for them as they got older and bigger.

Have you considered something like Bolivian Rams?

 

[SavTheArtist]

Just wondering, could you theoretically put a single blood parrot cichlid with a single dinosaur bichir? In a 40-55 (maybe 60) gallon tank?

With no other fish, just them.

 

[MrBryan723]

I don't see why not. At least as a grow out tank. Eventually the cichlid will outgrow the tank and would need something more like a 75-125. Not so much due to the water volumn, but more the foorprint. A square shaped 55 could house them indefinitely with frequent maintenance.

 

[SavTheArtist]

I don't see why not. At least as a grow out tank. Eventually the cichlid will outgrow the tank and would need something more like a 75-125. Not so much due to the water volumn, but more the foorprint. A square shaped 55 could house them indefinitely with frequent maintenance.

Would weekly 50% water changes work or would it need to be a bigger percentage?

Also would a 55 breeder suffice? I'm assuming that it may be preferable?

 

[MrBryan723]

Maybe. Those parrots get oscar sized(over 12")and the bichir will get at least a foot long too when they're full grown. You would have to adjust your water change schedule as they grow at any rate, so just keep an eye on it and increase it as needed. 50% a week isn't a bad starting point. I still figure you would need to upgrade to at least 75g at some point in the future. Maybe a sump would be a good enough alternative if space is an issue as you can put it under the tank.

 

[SavTheArtist]

Maybe. Those parrots get oscar sized(over 12")and the bichir will get at least a foot long too when they're full grown. You would have to adjust your water change schedule as they grow at any rate, so just keep an eye on it and increase it as needed. 50% a week isn't a bad starting point. I still figure you would need to upgrade to at least 75g at some point in the future. Maybe a sump would be a good enough alternative if space is an issue as you can put it under the tank.

I've been told that a 30g is the minimum tank size for a parrot, and that a 40 is the minimum for a dino bichir?

So I was under the impression that a 55g would be ok for only the two?

 

[AngryRainbow]

I've been told that a 30g is the minimum tank size for a parrot, and that a 40 is the minimum for a dino bichir?

So I was under the impression that a 55g would be ok for only the two?

I own two blood parrots, and I strongly disagree with the 30g minimum that I've also seen on some sites. I've also never heard of a parrot reaching 12+ inches. Typically 8" is a good sized adult parrot.

I would say you would maybe be okay with a 55. I've been told that's enough room for senegal birchir (no personal experience but I was considering getting a birchir at one point so I did some research). The issue may come from the parrot though. It all comes down to the individual honestly. Of my two parrots, one remained smaller (4-5") and he would definitely be fine in a 55, but my other parrot (7ish") would probably be a bit big for a 55. She would have enough room to turn around obviously, but not a whole lot of room to swim front to back. Some parrots are also very aggressive and may not tolerate tank mates in a 55.

So you could start with the 55, but know depending on your parrot, you may need to upgrade. I keep both my parrots in a 75 and it seems like plenty of room for them.

 

[blennylover2323]

Birchir will most likely grow out of the tank. I was going to get one personally but was told that I wasn’t allowed to keep it in a 100 gallon. Having a single blood parrot in a 55 sounds ok but not for the birchir.

By the way I was looking at a certain type of birchir, I’m not sure if it’s all the same with all types of birchirs
Hope that helped!

 

[SavTheArtist]

Birchir will most likely grow out of the tank. I was going to get one personally but was told that I wasn’t allowed to keep it in a 100 gallon. Having a single blood parrot in a 55 sounds ok but not for the birchir.

By the way I was looking at a certain type of birchir, I’m not sure if it’s all the same with all types of birchirs
Hope that helped!

I'm saying a dinosaur/senegal, which usually max out at just below a foot. I've seen and read of a 40 breeder being fine for one.

I own two blood parrots, and I strongly disagree with the 30g minimum that I've also seen on some sites. I've also never heard of a parrot reaching 12+ inches. Typically 8" is a good sized adult parrot.

I would say you would maybe be okay with a 55. I've been told that's enough room for senegal birchir (no personal experience but I was considering getting a birchir at one point so I did some research). The issue may come from the parrot though. It all comes down to the individual honestly. Of my two parrots, one remained smaller (4-5") and he would definitely be fine in a 55, but my other parrot (7ish") would probably be a bit big for a 55. She would have enough room to turn around obviously, but not a whole lot of room to swim front to back. Some parrots are also very aggressive and may not tolerate tank mates in a 55.

So you could start with the 55, but know depending on your parrot, you may need to upgrade. I keep both my parrots in a 75 and it seems like plenty of room for them.

Thank you for the info! I think I'm gonna hold off on the blood parrot. A dino bichir is my dream fish so I'll probably end up going with one of those!

Just 1 bichir, maybe a pleco.

Would I be able to do 1 bichir and 1 african cichlid? In a 40-55? or are there any other predatory fish that can go with a bichir that are smaller/less aggressive?

 

[kanzekatores]

Bichir and Blood parrot would work fine. In fact I want to start up a semi-aggressive like that someday. You could also do bichir & African cichlid in 55 gallons+. Either works just Blood parrotfish & Bichir would need more Space, at least 75 gallons.

 

[FinalFins]

Would I be able to do 1 bichir and 1 african cichlid? In a 40-55? or are there any other predatory fish that can go with a bichir that are smaller/less aggressive?

African cichlids are a no no if you only want one. Also african cichlid applies to hundreds of different species. If anything the bichr might eat the african cichlid.


Also according to seriouslyfish, (Polypterus senegalus senegalus (Senegal Bichir) — Seriously Fish) Senegal bichrs can get closer to 2 feet. Not 1. And they reccomend a 5x2x2 foot tank. A 40 gallom is too small for any 1 foot fish long term

 

[SavTheArtist]

African cichlids are a no no if you only want one. Also african cichlid applies to hundreds of different species. If anything the bichr might eat the african cichlid.


Also according to seriouslyfish, (Polypterus senegalus senegalus (Senegal Bichir) — Seriously Fish) Senegal bichrs can get closer to 2 feet. Not 1. And they reccomend a 5x2x2 foot tank. A 40 gallom is too small for any 1 foot fish long term

I'm saying a 55.

In captivity, dinosaur bichirs rarely get over 1 foot. I'm saying this from experience and research.

I personally know several professional fishkeepers, and multiple of them have kept dino bichirs. Theirs thrived in 40-55 gallon tanks, and one was placed in a 90 gallon. Even the one in the 90g stayed below 11". T

They do not grow very large in captivity, even when kept in proper conditions and proper dietary needs.

Another bichir, owned by a friend of mine, is kept in a large tank, and maxed out at about 8". He is an adult, fed with live fish, live crickets, and frozen bloodworms. Also perfectly healthy.

You can successfully keep a bichir in a 40-55g. IME, they stay smaller, more short bodied, and are easily the smallest bichir you can own.

I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree.

Bichir and Blood parrot would work fine. In fact I want to start up a semi-aggressive like that someday. You could also do bichir & African cichlid in 55 gallons+. Either works just Blood parrotfish & Bichir would need more Space, at least 75 gallons.

Thank you for your advice

 

[FinalFins]

I personally know several professional fishkeepers, and multiple of them have kept dino bichirs. Theirs thrived in 40-55 gallon tanks, and one was placed in a 90 gallon. Even the one in the 90g stayed below 11". T

Well, there we go. 11” inches is caused by the smaller tank.

Also, FishBase, (another reliable source) lists them as a fish that can grow to 70 centimeters.
Besides that, a foot long fish should not go in a 55> Gallon tank.
unless you can get a very large tank then grow out one, if it stays under a foot then I shall cease my argument.

 

[MrBryan723]

So it seems the general consensus here is that a 55 is ok to start, but a 75 minimum long term. There might be some disparity over size, but either way, these are both known to get pretty big. If budget is an issue, used tanks can be found for bargans on craigslist and other second hand sites. If space is, you might want to consider something with a more squate format that you can also add a sump to. The bigger the tank the more stable and easier to maintain at any rate. I sense things are getting a little heated here, but we're mostly just trying to help out.

There are a few upside down catfish species you might want to look in to. I know some of them get plenty big enough to not be eaten, but top out at around 9" an african leaf fish might also be compatible, and they're a lot of fun to own.
I would agree to stay away from the lake cichlids, I could see them picking the eyes out of a bichir or getting eaten themselves.

 

[flyinGourami]

You could physically fit them in there, but really even with just the 2 fish, I feel like it would be cramped, once you look at how big they can potentially get, as well as behavior.

But I haven't kept either of them in a tank of my own personally, only have seen them for a few minutes and done research.

 

[SavTheArtist]

Three angels shouldn't be kept together. Two will likely pair off and kill the third.
Just a heads up

Another vote for Pearl Gouramis. Very pretty fish. Docile, beautiful coloring. Every once in a while my 2 will chase each other, but they're not serious about anything and it doesn't spill over to any other fish.

I have had 3 Angels in a 55. They did ok. I had them since they were quarter-sized and by the time I got rid of them, they were about the size of the palm of my hand. They had skirmishes from time to time and it seemed to be getting more often. I would not recommend getting 3 to anyone given my experience. I also don't really think my 55 was tall enough for them as they got older and bigger.

Have you considered something like Bolivian Rams?

Ok: SO, here's where I'm at.

Not doing neons or cories, that little bout of fish fever wore off for the most part.

I'm really considering an angel. At my local Petco, someone just donated 2 juveniles. They only $4 each and I was wondering if one would work?

Would the angel hurt/eat snails or shrimp? I want to have a pair of mysteries, a nerite or two, and maybe some shrimp as well.

I have considered rams, but none of my LFS sell them and I'm not comfortable ordering online.

 

[Wrench]

Rope fish

 

[blennylover2323]

sounds like a great idea!
for your question angels will work fine with snails, I use to keep them together with no problems but with shrimps is a whole different story. long story short angels will eat and attack any shrimp they can get. if you add angels to shrimps you are putting them at risk. although some people have been able to keep them together I personally wouldn't risk it. so if you were to get angels I would get rid of your shrimp.

 

[Leeman75]

Ok: SO, here's where I'm at.

Not doing neons or cories, that little bout of fish fever wore off for the most part.

I'm really considering an angel. At my local Petco, someone just donated 2 juveniles. They only $4 each and I was wondering if one would work?

Would the angel hurt/eat snails or shrimp? I want to have a pair of mysteries, a nerite or two, and maybe some shrimp as well.

I have considered rams, but none of my LFS sell them and I'm not comfortable ordering online.

An Angel would absolutely work! I feel like the Angel Advocate this morning because I just commented on another post with someone contemplating Angels. I think an Angel would be a great centerpiece fish. Juvenile is great because you can then see it grow...and they do relatively fast.

I echo the comments about the Angel/Shrimp combination. Snails will be ok though.

 

[jmaldo]

Hmm...
Years ago, Silly me picked up 5 juveniles Angels about a quarter size body, kept in QT for about 6 weeks, they grew fast. Then added them to a Planted 55g which had Mystery, Nerite snails along with Amano and Cherry shrimp.
Well, the Cherry shrimp ended up becoming dinner, and I thought the same fate for the Amanos. But I eventually found them months later. And actually witnessed the Angels nipping at the Mystery and Nerite snails tentacles.
Just my .02

Good Luck!

 

[SavTheArtist]

sounds like a great idea!
for your question angels will work fine with snails, I use to keep them together with no problems but with shrimps is a whole different story. long story short angels will eat and attack any shrimp they can get. if you add angels to shrimps you are putting them at risk. although some people have been able to keep them together I personally wouldn't risk it. so if you were to get angels I would get rid of your shrimp.

An Angel would absolutely work! I feel like the Angel Advocate this morning because I just commented on another post with someone contemplating Angels. I think an Angel would be a great centerpiece fish. Juvenile is great because you can then see it grow...and they do relatively fast.

I echo the comments about the Angel/Shrimp combination. Snails will be ok though.

Hmm...
Years ago, Silly me picked up 5 juveniles Angels about a quarter size body, kept in QT for about 6 weeks, they grew fast. Then added them to a Planted 55g which had Mystery, Nerite snails along with Amano and Cherry shrimp.
Well, the Cherry shrimp ended up becoming dinner, and I thought the same fate for the Amanos. But I eventually found them months later. And actually witnessed the Angels nipping at the Mystery and Nerite snails tentacles.
Just my .02

Good Luck!

Great thank you! If I got a baby angel and raised it with shrimp, would it end up more peaceful? Like was said with the neons?

 

[blennylover2323]

Great thank you! If I got a baby angel and raised it with shrimp, would it end up more peaceful? Like was said with the neons?

Personally I wouldn’t risk it, I’m not to sure if it will work or not because most of the time it depends on your angels behaviour. If you are going to get angels and have or are getting shrimp I would get rid of them because their is nothing worse than someone being eaten.
this is my opinion some people may disagree but I wouldn’t do it if I were you.
Good luck anyways!!!

 

[Addictedtobettas]

Angelfish are beautiful but moody fish. They’re the only fish I’d reconsider if I had it to do all over again. I’d go with more honey gouramis or something for that tank.
But even my previously sweet runt Angelfish changed into a hangry behemoth that puts the 2nd Angry angelfish I got to shame.
they’re big fish with big appetites and almost no social personality that I’ve seen in home tanks or even lfs.
Pretty though...

 

[FreshwaterCole]

African cichlids are a no no if you only want one. Also african cichlid applies to hundreds of different species. If anything the bichr might eat the african cichlid.


Also according to seriouslyfish, (Polypterus senegalus senegalus (Senegal Bichir) — Seriously Fish) Senegal bichrs can get closer to 2 feet. Not 1. And they reccomend a 5x2x2 foot tank. A 40 gallom is too small for any 1 foot fish long term

I think 'Seriously Fish' quotes that tank size because they figure fishkeepers will want more than one! Lol