Thinking of starting a saltwater tank

a heater, and you'll need a second pump or powerhead + heater to mix salt in case you aren't buying premade from your lfs. even if you do have premade saltwater, you need to heat it to the same temp as the tank water before replacing. i think that sounds like enough rock for a future clown but again, i'm far from an expert or even experienced. you need a test kit, though i believe the freshwater api kit works too. the colors are just a bit different, so you'll need to look that up.
Great! I actually already have the tank (just had to figure out where to put it) along with the heater so that part is covered. I’ll make sure to get another powerhead too. I already have the freshwater master kit so maybe I’ll be able to use that (if not I’ll get saltwater). Definitely will get a heater for the new saltwater. Thanks!
 

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I think that I’ll be able to do a 20 long instead of a 10 gallon. However, this will be on a budget and I’m not sure how expensive this will get. Right now I’m thinking of doing 20 pounds of live sand, 4 pounds of Caribsea life rock and then 16 pounds of dry rock. Does this seem ok for just one clownfish? I don’t plan on getting any other fish. The other supplies I’ll get are:
Refractometer
Power head (How many gph?)
And a Protein skimmer

Does this sound ok?

Protein skimmers are tricky the best ones are the ones that you ideally place in a sump. HOB skimmers ive heard suck and have many issues so if your going this small a skimmer is not necessary you can supplement it with a better filter. I personally have a 29 cube and no skimmer.
20 pounds of rock is perfect its recommended 1 pound per gallon. if you wanted you could have a pair of clowns.
For testing yes a refractometer to test the salinity. a test kit that tests the PH for starters if your taking my advice and starting slow with a 3 month cycle and no fish till after 3 months than you really dont need to test for much more at the beginning. slowly accumulate more test kits as your budget permits. In my case i strongly recommend getting a kit to test for Alkalinity, Phosphate and if you wanted get the reef api test kit since it has Phosphate, nitrate calcium and hardness. Unless you dont plan on having corals. Ask yourself if you want corals in your tank later down the road if so then you need to look into reef tank.

Power heads and flow is tricky me personally in my 29 i have two powerhead of 480gph each and i find that is enough so it should do for yours i got them at amazon the aquaneat pumps they come in pair.
 

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Protein skimmers are tricky the best ones are the ones that you ideally place in a sump. HOB skimmers ive heard suck and have many issues so if your going this small a skimmer is not necessary you can supplement it with a better filter. I personally have a 29 cube and no skimmer.
20 pounds of rock is perfect its recommended 1 pound per gallon. if you wanted you could have a pair of clowns.
For testing yes a refractometer to test the salinity. a test kit that tests the PH for starters if your taking my advice and starting slow with a 3 month cycle and no fish till after 3 months than you really dont need to test for much more at the beginning. slowly accumulate more test kits as your budget permits. In my case i strongly recommend getting a kit to test for Alkalinity, Phosphate and if you wanted get the reef api test kit since it has Phosphate, nitrate calcium and hardness. Unless you dont plan on having corals. Ask yourself if you want corals in your tank later down the road if so then you need to look into reef tank.

Power heads and flow is tricky me personally in my 29 i have two powerhead of 480gph each and i find that is enough so it should do for yours i got them at amazon the aquaneat pumps they come in pair.
Ok, sounds good. I don’t think I will do the 3 month cycle but the reason I was thinking one clown is because it wouldn’t have a huge bio load so it might be easier to add and not have a ammonia spike vs. two clowns. I feel like 20 pounds of live sand and 4 pounds of live rock plus 16 pounds of dry rock would be able to support a clown but I definitely could be wrong. How much live rock do you think I should start with if I were to add the clown after a few days?
 
Ok, sounds good. I don’t think I will do the 3 month cycle but the reason I was thinking one clown is because it wouldn’t have a huge bio load so it might be easier to add and not have a ammonia spike vs. two clowns. I feel like 20 pounds of live sand and 4 pounds of live rock plus 16 pounds of dry rock would be able to support a clown but I definitely could be wrong. How much live rock do you think I should start with if I were to add the clown after a few days?
I actually wouldn't add the clown right away either, as you're going to need to get used to topping off and maintaining the salinity. You might already have one from freshwater, but do you have a lid? Gotta make sure the fish doesn't jump!
 
I actually wouldn't add the clown right away either, as you're going to need to get used to topping off and maintaining the salinity. You might already have one from freshwater, but do you have a lid? Gotta make sure the fish doesn't jump!
Yup! It has a lid along with lighting that came with the lid. How long do you recommend I wait?
 
My clowns don't have huge bioload, so you shouldn't worry too much about if it will get out of control with 2 rather than 1. I think a pair is always a better choice, and clowns add a lot of personality to the tank. Plus that was you could get two different kinds.
 

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Just got back from visiting my LFS. They sell live rock there for a good price and they also have live sand. I’m thinking of getting live sand, 1 pound of live rock and then 9 pounds of dry rock. Does that seem like a good amount? The live sand and the pound of live rock should be enough to keep one clownfish, right?

You can do it with 1lb of live rock, it just might take a bit longer for the biofilter to establish. Personally though I would go with caribsea life rock over actual live rock. That way you get bacteria benefits without the potential to introduce pests to the tank and it tends to be a hair cheaper than Live Rock anyways. Also make sure you cure that dry rock well (ie scrub down well in RODI Water) or you will have phosphate leeching problems. You will see how bad it can be once you put it in RODI for the first time (water goes super cloudy with all the residue).
 
Yup! It has a lid along with lighting that came with the lid. How long do you recommend I wait?
Personally, I'm going to take my time letting my tank cycle and use that time (probably a full month at least) to get used to the evaporation rate and keeping up on top-offs. If the cycle is faster than that, I'll still dose ammonia or whatever and keep practicing if I can muster the patience. I'd hate to lose a coral just because I didn't wait until I was ready to care for it. I'm not sure what the process looks like for you with live rock, but I wouldn't want to hit new fish with a bunch of salinity swings because of inexperience. Remember! Nothing good ever happens fast!
 
Personally, I'm going to take my time letting my tank cycle and use that time (probably a full month at least) to get used to the evaporation rate and keeping up on top-offs. If the cycle is faster than that, I'll still dose ammonia or whatever and keep practicing if I can muster the patience. I'd hate to lose a coral just because I didn't wait until I was ready to care for it. I'm not sure what the process looks like for you with live rock, but I wouldn't want to hit new fish with a bunch of salinity swings because of inexperience. Remember! Nothing good ever happens fast!
Im curious, as long as I keep the salinity levels the same each time i do a water change (my LFS sells saltwater and the salinity levels are almost always the same each time they make the saltwater. I’m also getting a refractometer) and only use RODI for top offs wouldn’t that prevent any swings?

Because the clownfish has such a small bioload for a 20 gallon tank I feel like waiting a week or two might be sufficient because I’m already using 20 pounds of live sand, 16 pounds of dry rock, and 4 pounds of live rock. If that’s not the case then I can wait longer. I definitely don’t want to hurt any fish!
 
Im curious, as long as I keep the salinity levels the same each time i do a water change (my LFS sells saltwater and the salinity levels are almost always the same each time they make the saltwater. I’m also getting a refractometer) and only use RODI for top offs wouldn’t that prevent any swings?

Because the clownfish has such a small bioload for a 20 gallon tank I feel like waiting a week or two might be sufficient because I’m already using 20 pounds of live sand, 16 pounds of dry rock, and 4 pounds of live rock. If that’s not the case then I can wait longer. I definitely don’t want to hurt any fish!
It should! But you have to get to know how frequently to top off to avoid a bigger swing, you know?
I'm sure there are people who have done it the way you want to. I'm just cautious.
 
It should! But you have to get to know how frequently to top off to avoid a bigger swing, you know?
I'm sure there are people who have done it the way you want to. I'm just cautious.
This tank is going to be in a place where people will see it really often so I’ll be topping it off a ton (not just once a week. Basically whenever it goes below where the rim is) to both prevent swings and also just for its appearance. Do I need a mesh lid? Right now I have one of those plastic lids that came with a 20 long kit. I’m not sure if it’d work for saltwater but if it would then I feel like there wouldn’t be too much evaporation.
 

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Im curious, as long as I keep the salinity levels the same each time i do a water change (my LFS sells saltwater and the salinity levels are almost always the same each time they make the saltwater. I’m also getting a refractometer) and only use RODI for top offs wouldn’t that prevent any swings?

Because the clownfish has such a small bioload for a 20 gallon tank I feel like waiting a week or two might be sufficient because I’m already using 20 pounds of live sand, 16 pounds of dry rock, and 4 pounds of live rock. If that’s not the case then I can wait longer. I definitely don’t want to hurt any fish!
Your plan for top off works. An ato is an amazing thing. Most tanks evaporate 1-3% a day. I spent 3 months filling one gallon a day. Winter evaporation is worse because heaters work a little more. 4lbs of live rock if it's from the ocean will support 2 clownfish from the start. Welcome to the salty side
 
Your plan for top off works. An ato is an amazing thing. Most tanks evaporate 1-3% a day. I spent 3 months filling one gallon a day. Winter evaporation is worse because heaters work a little more. 4lbs of live rock if it's from the ocean will support 2 clownfish from the start. Welcome to the salty side
Thanks! Its actually Caribsea life rock (to prevent pests) but I think that along with the sand it should still work.
 
If it's life rock and sand yes I would add ammonia and do fishless cycle. On a 20 g you can load the rock with bacteria and do a large water change just like freshwater. For me I had to sparingly add ammonia to try to mitigate the amount of nitrates. 140g total it would have cost me over 100$ to change 75%. So great it like freshwater add ammonia. Once ammonia is depleted in 24 hrs it is safe to add fish. Nitrites are non toxic from the sodium bicarbonate. They are still harmful but the saltwater neutralize it. 1ppm ammonia in 24 hrs large water change and you can add clowns. Then just monitor
 
If it's life rock and sand yes I would add ammonia and do fishless cycle. On a 20 g you can load the rock with bacteria and do a large water change just like freshwater. For me I had to sparingly add ammonia to try to mitigate the amount of nitrates. 140g total it would have cost me over 100$ to change 75%. So great it like freshwater add ammonia. Once ammonia is depleted in 24 hrs it is safe to add fish. Nitrites are non toxic from the sodium bicarbonate. They are still harmful but the saltwater neutralize it. 1ppm ammonia in 24 hrs large water change and you can add clowns. Then just monitor
Sounds good. How long do you think it’d take? Also, is Dr. Tim’s Ammonium chloride still good for saltwater? I know people use it for freshwater but I’m not sure if there would be a difference or something. Thanks!

EDIT: If I were to use real live rock, would it have a different effect and make it so there would be more bacteria? If so, how do I avoid any unwanted pests?
 
Yup! It has a lid along with lighting that came with the lid. How long do you recommend I wait?
You need to wait till the nitrogen cycle has completed at the very least. SW fish are far more sensitive to ammonia and nitrites than FW fish are. you can either speed up the cycle by doing ghost feedings or chemically with the Dr Tims products thats suppose to start the cycle and add the beneficial bacteria. im sure you know what the nitrogen cycle entails and how it works so as soon as you have that beneficial bacteria in the filter you can effectively add fish if you wanted to.
 
If it's life rock and sand yes I would add ammonia and do fishless cycle. On a 20 g you can load the rock with bacteria and do a large water change just like freshwater. For me I had to sparingly add ammonia to try to mitigate the amount of nitrates. 140g total it would have cost me over 100$ to change 75%. So great it like freshwater add ammonia. Once ammonia is depleted in 24 hrs it is safe to add fish. Nitrites are non toxic from the sodium bicarbonate. They are still harmful but the saltwater neutralize it. 1ppm ammonia in 24 hrs large water change and you can add clowns. Then just monitor
Sorry for posting again, but I think I need to specific what I meant. I noticed you had said that live rock will be able to support the fish from the start and that life rock will take a lot more time. I have access to both so if the live rock will be able to support the fish better then should I get that instead? If so, how do I prevent unwanted pests?
You need to wait till the nitrogen cycle has completed at the very least. SW fish are far more sensitive to ammonia and nitrites than FW fish are. you can either speed up the cycle by doing ghost feedings or chemically with the Dr Tims products thats suppose to start the cycle and add the beneficial bacteria. im sure you know what the nitrogen cycle entails and how it works so as soon as you have that beneficial bacteria in the filter you can effectively add fish if you wanted to.
I thought that the live rock and live sand was the filter? If so then wouldn’t I just need to get established live rock? Sorry for all the questions. I want to make sure I understand everything before I actually start getting the stuff.
 
Life rock has painted bacteria. It will release slowly in time. Live rock from the ocean will have bacteria in it and all kinds of life to support a tank. Cycled rock from a fish tank is about the same as live rock from the ocean but not teaming with actual ocean bacteria. So live rock from the ocean or cycled rock from a holding bin can support life. Life rock will need cycled.
 
Life rock has painted bacteria. It will release slowly in time. Live rock from the ocean will have bacteria in it and all kinds of life to support a tank. Cycled rock from a fish tank is about the same as live rock from the ocean but not teaming with actual ocean bacteria. So live rock from the ocean or cycled rock from a holding bin can support life. Life rock will need cycled.
My LFS has a TON of live rock for sale so I think I’ll be able to get about 4 pounds of it. The main issue is the pests. I keep reading about people who got aiptasia, mantis shrimp, or some other pest because of live rock. Is there some way I can remove the pests but not kill the bacteria on the rock?
 
Qt the rock for a few weeks. But if it's in a lfs then it's most likely apista you will have to worry about. You can also just run a cycle it's much faster in saltwater about 30 days.
 
Qt the rock for a few weeks. But if it's in a lfs then it's most likely apista you will have to worry about. You can also just run a cycle it's much faster in saltwater about 30 days.
Wow, that really is faster! I did however find someone selling a huge live rock for only $40. I think if I got it then I’d have more than enough for the 20 gallon. It would come with a coral attached but I think I could remove the coral? Either way I would have more than enough and I didn’t see any aptasia on it. It seemed like the tank didn’t have any fish in it and was a coral grow out tank (had lots of coral frags and just didn’t seem like a display tank) so that would help rule out some fish diseases. Do you think I should get it? It looked huge so it’d solve my problem of getting live rock.
 

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Sorry for posting again, but I think I need to specific what I meant. I noticed you had said that live rock will be able to support the fish from the start and that life rock will take a lot more time. I have access to both so if the live rock will be able to support the fish better then should I get that instead? If so, how do I prevent unwanted pests?

I thought that the live rock and live sand was the filter? If so then wouldn’t I just need to get established live rock? Sorry for all the questions. I want to make sure I understand everything before I actually start getting the stuff.
LIve rock and sand are nowhere near enough to keep a SW tank clean you def need a filter that has been fully cycled. rock and sand help but they wont get rid of detritus and other organic materials that your filter will. as far as rock i am no expert i personally started with base rock so it took over 3 months for it to fully develop into live rock and its transition was something cool to watch because i knew i was doing right and my parameters were in check.
As far as getting live rock unless you Quarantine it or do what is called curing, it will most likely bring all the hitchhikers from its previous owner and container. I never did that so you would need to do your research on curing live rock if you dont want any hitchhikers. The good news is that i believe you can cure your rock and start cycling your tank at the same time within the same tank so 2 birds with 1 stone just do your research.
 
LIve rock and sand are nowhere near enough to keep a SW tank clean you def need a filter that has been fully cycled. rock and sand help but they wont get rid of detritus and other organic materials that your filter will. as far as rock i am no expert i personally started with base rock so it took over 3 months for it to fully develop into live rock and its transition was something cool to watch because i knew i was doing right and my parameters were in check.
As far as getting live rock unless you Quarantine it or do what is called curing, it will most likely bring all the hitchhikers from its previous owner and container. I never did that so you would need to do your research on curing live rock if you dont want any hitchhikers. The good news is that i believe you can cure your rock and start cycling your tank at the same time within the same tank so 2 birds with 1 stone just do your research.
I’m aware of what curing is. I think that if buying live rock is the main issue then I’ll go with Caribsea Life rock and dry rock. The life rock should help the process somehwhat, along with the live sand. By filter do you mean a powerhead? Or just a regular filter?
 
I’m aware of what curing is. I think that if buying live rock is the main issue then I’ll go with Caribsea Life rock and dry rock. The life rock should help the process somehwhat, along with the live sand. By filter do you mean a powerhead? Or just a regular filter?
I mean an actual filter with bio, mechanical media and chemical media if you want to. besides that you will also need a power because SW tanks need flow. Dont count on live rock and sand to do much honestly they will help but mostly your filter will do the heavy work.

If you want to start it this weekend and go with dry rock you will need to clean it since it will have lots of debris and dust on it so hose it down for a few minutes then proceed to arrange it in your tank however you want add your water and mix it in the tank since you dont have anything in there its ok but make sure you have your powerheads on so they can mix the salt. start your filter ASAP and let the cycle commence once your filter is fully cycled you can theoretically add the clowns if you want. Just make sure you parameters are in check such as Salinity Ph, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
 
I mean an actual filter with bio, mechanical media and chemical media if you want to. besides that you will also need a power because SW tanks need flow. Dont count on live rock and sand to do much honestly they will help but mostly your filter will do the heavy work.

If you want to start it this weekend and go with dry rock you will need to clean it since it will have lots of debris and dust on it so hose it down for a few minutes then proceed to arrange it in your tank however you want add your water and mix it in the tank since you dont have anything in there its ok but make sure you have your powerheads on so they can mix the salt. start your filter ASAP and let the cycle commence once your filter is fully cycled you can theoretically add the clowns if you want. Just make sure you parameters are in check such as Salinity Ph, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
I think that mechanical filtration can definitely be helpful (again, I'm a total noob), but I've seen a whole lot of nano reef builds (the majority, even) that go without. Those builds use nothing but flow, spot cleaning, and larger water changes to provide the nutrient export and general water maintenance you're referring to. Can you speak to the difference between the two strategies?
 
I think that mechanical filtration can definitely be helpful (again, I'm a total noob), but I've seen a whole lot of nano reef builds (the majority, even) that go without. Those builds use nothing but flow, spot cleaning, and larger water changes to provide the nutrient export and general water maintenance you're referring to. Can you speak to the difference between the two strategies?
Agreed.
 
I think that mechanical filtration can definitely be helpful (again, I'm a total noob), but I've seen a whole lot of nano reef builds (the majority, even) that go without. Those builds use nothing but flow, spot cleaning, and larger water changes to provide the nutrient export and general water maintenance you're referring to. Can you speak to the difference between the two strategies?
first of all nano reef refer to tanks smaller than 20 gallons i believe something ridiculously small like a 5 or 10 gallon so their parameters will shift drastically within a day. So i wouldnt dare to touch them myself since i also consider myself a beginner. But for example if you have a 10 and a 40 SW tank and each one loses 1 gallons of water to evaporation thats only 2.5% of a 40 BUT its 10% of a 10 gallon tank thus increasing the salinity far more drastically on the 10 gallon tank. The same goes for all the nutrients that the WC replenish such as Calcium and Magnesium which are really important for coral growth and the essence of reefs. SOrry if im all over the place.
 
first of all nano reef refer to tanks smaller than 20 gallons i believe something ridiculously small like a 5 or 10 gallon so their parameters will shift drastically within a day. So i wouldnt dare to touch them myself since i also consider myself a beginner. But for example if you have a 10 and a 40 SW tank and each one loses 1 gallons of water to evaporation thats only 2.5% of a 40 BUT its 10% of a 10 gallon tank thus increasing the salinity far more drastically on the 10 gallon tank. The same goes for all the nutrients that the WC replenish such as Calcium and Magnesium which are really important for coral growth and the essence of reefs. SOrry if im all over the place.
I’m still a bit confused. I’m definitely a beginner so chances are I’m wrong but from what ive read a protein skimmer, powerhead, live rock, and live sand are all you need for filtration and water movement because filters like HOBs can become nitrate traps.
 
first of all nano reef refer to tanks smaller than 20 gallons i believe something ridiculously small like a 5 or 10 gallon so their parameters will shift drastically within a day. So i wouldnt dare to touch them myself since i also consider myself a beginner. But for example if you have a 10 and a 40 SW tank and each one loses 1 gallons of water to evaporation thats only 2.5% of a 40 BUT its 10% of a 10 gallon tank thus increasing the salinity far more drastically on the 10 gallon tank. The same goes for all the nutrients that the WC replenish such as Calcium and Magnesium which are really important for coral growth and the essence of reefs. SOrry if im all over the place.
Yeah, I know that nano reefs are under 20 gallons - the tank that jkkgron2 is planning is a 20 gallon (at most... they might still be using a 10g?). It's not a reef, but the general principles still apply. Across all of fishkeeping, larger water volume equates to less dramatic swings in water conditions. What I want to know if you can tell us why you find mechanical filtration so necessary in a saltwater tank when the rock acts as biological filtration and water changes are so doable in tanks this size?
 
Yeah, I know that nano reefs are under 20 gallons - the tank that jkkgron2 is planning is a 20 gallon (at most... they might still be using a 10g?). It's not a reef, but the general principles still apply. Across all of fishkeeping, larger water volume equates to less dramatic swings in water conditions. What I want to know if you can tell us why you find mechanical filtration so necessary in a saltwater tank when the rock acts as biological filtration and water changes are so doable in tanks this size?
I’m planning on a 20g but if for some reason the 20g doesn’t work out then I’ll be using a 10 gallon.
 
I’m planning on a 20g but if for some reason the 20g doesn’t work out then I’ll be using a 10 gallon.
Righto! That's what I thought. As far as I know, nano in salt is commonly 20 or under. Around 6ish gallons turns into pico territory.
 

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Yeah, I know that nano reefs are under 20 gallons - the tank that jkkgron2 is planning is a 20 gallon (at most... they might still be using a 10g?). It's not a reef, but the general principles still apply. Across all of fishkeeping, larger water volume equates to less dramatic swings in water conditions. What I want to know if you can tell us why you find mechanical filtration so necessary in a saltwater tank when the rock acts as biological filtration and water changes are so doable in tanks this size?

Mechanical filtration removes the actual waste the organic material and detritus that stays in the tank otherwise. Mechanical is not the same as biological. Biological is the beneficial bacteria that removes ammonia and nitrites but does nothing about the actual organic material you can see and touch. thats where mechanical comes into play.

Look at your filters and tell me what you see first its a sponge or something big that traps leftover food and waste thats Mechanical. The biological media will do nothing to clean all that filth out of the tank and that is what live rock and sand are biological media.
 
Mechanical filtration removes the actual waste the organic material and detritus that stays in the tank otherwise. Mechanical is not the same as biological. Biological is the beneficial bacteria that removes ammonia and nitrites but does nothing about the actual organic material you can see and touch. thats where mechanical comes into play.

Look at your filters and tell me what you see first its a sponge or something big that traps leftover food and waste thats Mechanical. The biological media will do nothing to clean all that filth out of the tank and that is what live rock and sand are biological media.
Right. I'm well aware of the difference between mechanical and biological filtration. However, I'm also aware that there is a huge issue in saltwater, especially in smaller tanks, of mechanical filtration becoming a nitrate sink. My understanding is that unless you are removing and replacing filter floss, for example, every two days, it becomes a hazard and not a help. The increased flow in a saltwater tank traps organic material and debris in "dead spots", no? Most reefers I plan to emulate use a turkey baster to spot clean those areas to remove organic waste to keep it out of the tank, rather than allowing it to accumulate in a mechanical filter.

Live rock in the appropriate amount is enough to sustain the cycle and keep nitrate levels down (EDIT: Keep ammonia levels down. Water changes are necessary for nitrate removal). So, then, mechanical filtration is only to keep water clear (as in freshwater, as well). Turbid water is not "dirty", or dangerous, chemically speaking. So, then, why do you favor mechanical filtration over manual waste removal? How frequently do you clean the media in your filter, and what sort of mechanical filtration do you use?
 
Right. I'm well aware of the difference between mechanical and biological filtration. However, I'm also aware that there is a huge issue in saltwater, especially in smaller tanks, of mechanical filtration becoming a nitrate sink. My understanding is that unless you are removing and replacing filter floss, for example, every two days, it becomes a hazard and not a help. The increased flow in a saltwater tank traps organic material and debris in "dead spots", no? Most reefers I plan to emulate use a turkey baster to spot clean those areas to remove organic waste to keep it out of the tank, rather than allowing it to accumulate in a mechanical filter.

Live rock in the appropriate amount is enough to sustain the cycle and keep nitrate levels down (EDIT: Keep ammonia levels down. Water changes are necessary for nitrate removal). So, then, mechanical filtration is only to keep water clear (as in freshwater, as well). Turbid water is not "dirty", or dangerous, chemically speaking. So, then, why do you favor mechanical filtration over manual waste removal? How frequently do you clean the media in your filter, and what sort of mechanical filtration do you use?
What do you recommend I do? Do you think it’s safe to use 4 pounds Caribsea life rock, 20 pounds live sand, 16 pounds dry rock and then add the clownfish a week after? during that week I would be dosing 1 ppm ammonia everyday to help prepare the tank. I would also be using a refractometer (for water changes and measuring salinity ), a protein skimmer, and a powerhead. Also do you have any tips on how to remove pests from live rock?
 
Right. I'm well aware of the difference between mechanical and biological filtration. However, I'm also aware that there is a huge issue in saltwater, especially in smaller tanks, of mechanical filtration becoming a nitrate sink. My understanding is that unless you are removing and replacing filter floss, for example, every two days, it becomes a hazard and not a help. The increased flow in a saltwater tank traps organic material and debris in "dead spots", no? Most reefers I plan to emulate use a turkey baster to spot clean those areas to remove organic waste to keep it out of the tank, rather than allowing it to accumulate in a mechanical filter.

Live rock in the appropriate amount is enough to sustain the cycle and keep nitrate levels down (EDIT: Keep ammonia levels down. Water changes are necessary for nitrate removal). So, then, mechanical filtration is only to keep water clear (as in freshwater, as well). Turbid water is not "dirty", or dangerous, chemically speaking. So, then, why do you favor mechanical filtration over manual waste removal? How frequently do you clean the media in your filter, and what sort of mechanical filtration do you use?

your comparing nano and larger tanks. I am no expert in nano tanks so i can not speak about it myself of whether you should or shouldnt use a filter with mechanical when spot cleaning is doable. but with a bigger tank spot cleaning is not practical or doable that is my point. I personally have a 29 cube tall so i know spot cleaning is not doable. as far as my filter being a nitrate trap i have no issues with nitrate they are constant at 0 to 5 ppm and i havent lost any fish. I clean my filters every two weeks again my mechanical i will completely clean out once and then the second time will replace.

as far as dead spot when you do a WC i will move the sand around anything that in there come out and gasses are not accumulated which is something that can happen with live sand. And yes your correct turbid water is not dirty per se since it will always be turbid after you perform a WC. In conclusion if you have a tank 20 or bigger i strongly suggest you have a filter but if you prefer to do spot cleaning on a 20 long than go for it your call.
 
What do you recommend I do? Do you think it’s safe to use 4 pounds Caribsea life rock, 20 pounds live sand, 16 pounds dry rock and then add the clownfish a week after? during that week I would be dosing 1 ppm ammonia everyday to help prepare the tank. I would also be using a refractometer (for water changes and measuring salinity ), a protein skimmer, and a powerhead. Also do you have any tips on how to remove pests from live rock?
I think you should add all that rock and sand, dose ammonia, and test the parameters, then continue to do so with water changes as appropriate until the cycle is present and complete, when you see ammonia disappear, no nitrite, and nitrate levels rising, just like in freshwater. The process is the same, the strains of bacteria doing the job are just different. Then, when you're at the point the cycle is done, add the fish! And continue checking parameters and doing wcs as needed to be sure you're on top of things if the BB colony needs to catch up to the new bio load and goes through a mini-cycle. That said, I'd trust Jesterrace or Rcslade124 's advice over my own!

No idea about the pests. I'm just putting my first build together, and I'm using dry (never been live) rock to avoid them. For aiptasia, people shoot lemon juice at them with a pipette, or kalkwasser (which you won't need or have on hand), or a medication that I think is called aiptasia-x. Algaes can be a problem, like bubble algae. A lot of reefers end up using emerald crabs for that, but there might be a better way to handle it in a FOWLR.
 
Im curious, as long as I keep the salinity levels the same each time i do a water change (my LFS sells saltwater and the salinity levels are almost always the same each time they make the saltwater. I’m also getting a refractometer) and only use RODI for top offs wouldn’t that prevent any swings?

Because the clownfish has such a small bioload for a 20 gallon tank I feel like waiting a week or two might be sufficient because I’m already using 20 pounds of live sand, 16 pounds of dry rock, and 4 pounds of live rock. If that’s not the case then I can wait longer. I definitely don’t want to hurt any fish!

Until the tank is completely cycled definitely don't add any fish. Once it is done then wait a week or so to make sure things are stabilized and then I would add the fish. Be sure you get a decent test kit (API can be hit and miss for saltwater).
 
I think you should add all that rock and sand, dose ammonia, and test the parameters, then continue to do so with water changes as appropriate until the cycle is present and complete, when you see ammonia disappear, no nitrite, and nitrate levels rising, just like in freshwater. The process is the same, the strains of bacteria doing the job are just different. Then, when you're at the point the cycle is done, add the fish! And continue checking parameters and doing wcs as needed to be sure you're on top of things if the BB colony needs to catch up to the new bio load and goes through a mini-cycle. That said, I'd trust Jesterrace or Rcslade124 's advice over my own!

No idea about the pests. I'm just putting my first build together, and I'm using dry (never been live) rock to avoid them. For aiptasia, people shoot lemon juice at them with a pipette, or kalkwasser (which you won't need or have on hand), or a medication that I think is called aiptasia-x. Algaes can be a problem, like bubble algae. A lot of reefers end up using emerald crabs for that, but there might be a better way to handle it in a FOWLR.

Aiptasia X is great when Aiptasia are few and small in number. While you won't get any on your dry rock you will need to keep an eye out on your corals as they can hitchhike on them (I ended up getting one this way). The advantage to Aiptasia X is that the Aiptasia views it as food, whereas other methods if you bump it or jostle it while trying to dose something the Aiptasia will retract completely quicker than you can blink.

As for Bubble Algae, Emerald Crabs CAN eat it but it doesn't mean that they will and Emerald Crabs are a bit of a gamble with corals as they are opportunists and can turn on them. Personally the only crabs I would trust in a reef are the smaller hermits. If you have a larger tank Foxfaces can also eat it (when I had some start appearing in my DT my One Spot wiped it out in a hurry). The chemical solution generally used is Vibrant, but be aware you have to follow the dosage/instructions 100% or you can do bad things to your tank. Whatever you do don't pop bubble algae manually or it will spread like crazy. Keeping on top of water changes and regular filter sock/pad/cup/floss, etc. changes (ie once every 3 days) as well as limiting lighting to around 8 hours total will go a long way to helping to keep bubble algae out.
 
Aiptasia X is great when Aiptasia are few and small in number. While you won't get any on your dry rock you will need to keep an eye out on your corals as they can hitchhike on them (I ended up getting one this way). The advantage to Aiptasia X is that the Aiptasia views it as food, whereas other methods if you bump it or jostle it while trying to dose something the Aiptasia will retract completely quicker than you can blink.

As for Bubble Algae, Emerald Crabs CAN eat it but it doesn't mean that they will and Emerald Crabs are a bit of a gamble with corals as they are opportunists and can turn on them. Personally the only crabs I would trust in a reef are the smaller hermits. If you have a larger tank Foxfaces can also eat it (when I had some start appearing in my DT my One Spot wiped it out in a hurry). The chemical solution generally used is Vibrant, but be aware you have to follow the dosage/instructions 100% or you can do bad things to your tank. Whatever you do don't pop bubble algae manually or it will spread like crazy. Keeping on top of water changes and regular filter sock/pad/cup/floss, etc. changes (ie once every 3 days) as well as limiting lighting to around 8 hours total will go a long way to helping to keep bubble algae out.
You're the best! All of this is insanely helpful. One thing re: Vibrant - I thought I read that the "havoc" is that it can basically strip everything out of the water column and starve corals and what have you. Is that true? (Hope I'm not hijacking your thread, jkkgron2 !)
 
This might help out. I made this video about how to convert fresh water tanks to salt. However ten gallons might be a little small for a pair of clownfish. Usually they need around twenty gallons. A neon blue goby would be alright in a ten gallon though!
 
This might help out. I made this video about how to convert fresh water tanks to salt. However ten gallons might be a little small for a pair of clownfish. Usually they need around twenty gallons. A neon blue goby would be alright in a ten gallon though!
That had some great info! If I don’t end up just getting live rock then I’ll keep that in mind. Seems great for just a budget tank!

I’ve been doing some more research with the live rock and I think that I found something that might let me get some without worrying about the aiptasia. If I were to get that piece of live rock I found then could I just get a peppermint shrimp to eat the aiptasia? Also, any tips on how to remove montipora from the rock?
 

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This might help out. I made this video about how to convert fresh water tanks to salt. However ten gallons might be a little small for a pair of clownfish. Usually they need around twenty gallons. A neon blue goby would be alright in a ten gallon though!

I agree that 10 gallons is cramped long term for clownfish.

The fish ideally suited for that tank long term would be:

Firefish
Small Gobies (ie Clown Goby, Neon, Rainsford, Orange Spotted)
Barnacle or Tailspot Blenny
Possum Wrasse
 
That had some great info! If I don’t end up just getting live rock then I’ll keep that in mind. Seems great for just a budget tank!

I’ve been doing some more research with the live rock and I think that I found something that might let me get some without worrying about the aiptasia. If I were to get that piece of live rock I found then could I just get a peppermint shrimp to eat the aiptasia? Also, any tips on how to remove montipora from the rock?

Peppermint shrimp CAN eat Aiptasia but it doesn't mean that they WILL eat Aiptasia. Peppermint Shrimp can also eat certain types of corals so they aren't 100% reef safe either. Honestly I would skip the live rock, get a piece of caribsea life rock and then call it good. You get the bacteria benefits of live rock and zero chance of pests on it. It's not worth it to try and get rock and then remove pests afterwards as you basically have to strip it down to dry rock in order to get rid of stuff once it has spread. At that point you have negated any possible benefit of the live rock. You can also just do all dry rock and use bacteria seed and a source of ammonia to cycle the tank. It will take longer, but it will establish the biofilter. Bottom line it's easier to keep pests out of your tank then to try and take care of them after you have a rock with it.
 
You're the best! All of this is insanely helpful. One thing re: Vibrant - I thought I read that the "havoc" is that it can basically strip everything out of the water column and starve corals and what have you. Is that true? (Hope I'm not hijacking your thread, jkkgron2 !)

That is true, but once again a lot of those issues come back to dosing and following directions to the letter. I don't recommend it's use lightly for sure, but it can work when all else fails. You just have to be prepared and make sure to pull out things like Chaeto, etc. while you run it.
 
Peppermint shrimp CAN eat Aiptasia but it doesn't mean that they WILL eat Aiptasia. Peppermint Shrimp can also eat certain types of corals so they aren't 100% reef safe either. Honestly I would skip the live rock, get a piece of caribsea life rock and then call it good. You get the bacteria benefits of live rock and zero chance of pests on it. It's not worth it to try and get rock and then remove pests afterwards as you basically have to strip it down to dry rock in order to get rid of stuff once it has spread. At that point you have negated any possible benefit of the live rock. You can also just do all dry rock and use bacteria seed and a source of ammonia to cycle the tank. It will take longer, but it will establish the biofilter. Bottom line it's easier to keep pests out of your tank then to try and take care of them after you have a rock with it.
Ok, if the peppermint shrimp won’t always eat aiptasia then I’ll Avoid live rock. So how long do you think it would take for the bacteria to be able to support a clown with 4 pounds of Caribsea life rock, 16 pounds dry rock, and 20 pounds of live sand?
 
I’m about to head to the LFS to pick up 4 pounds of Caribsea life rock. Is that ok? Just want to make sure this isn’t a bad idea before I get it.
 
It's not bad. I have heard of hair algea with life rock. If you are doing some dry some life rock I would personally just do all dry rock
 
It's not bad. I have heard of hair algea with life rock. If you are doing some dry some life rock I would personally just do all dry rock
I’ll go with all dry rock then .

what test kit would you recommend I get? I know some say API doesn’t test that great for saltwater so I’ve been looking at other options.
For the cycling process should I use some sort of dead shrimp and put it in the tank (I’ve heard that this method is faster and more effective than adding dr. Tim’s ammonia) or just use Dr. Tim’s ammonia?

Edit: Does this rock seem ok?
30 lbs Extra Large Dry Reef Rock Aragonite Base, Porous Aquariums Live | eBay
 
Yes that rock works. Test kits for basic parameters salifert makes a good ammonia and nitrate test. No need to test nitrite. For reefs most suggest hanna phosphate ulr and and hanna alkalinity. If u have api for freshwater it will also test saltwater for cycling purpose
 
Yes that rock works. Test kits for basic parameters salifert makes a good ammonia and nitrate test. No need to test nitrite. For reefs most suggest hanna phosphate ulr and and hanna alkalinity. If u have api for freshwater it will also test saltwater for cycling purpose
I’ll just use my api freshwater one then. Is there any difference in how many drops I need to use?
 
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