Hardy, Not Over-Bred Fish

[Freshfishguy]

Hi guys! I've recently started keeping a list of fish that are known to be hardy and are not overbred, as finding fish that are not overbred seems to be a big tip to a happy aquarium life. So far I have Bolivian Rams, Lemon Tetras, and Honey Gouramis.

What other fish do you know of that are not overbred and are hardy fish?

 

[mrsP]

Neons? I've never had problems with them. Quite underrated fish, tbh. They are undemanding, interesting behavior, and look stunning when lights go down. They love to play in current, and leave fish fry alone.

 

[Freshfishguy]

Neons? I've never had problems with them. Quite underrated fish, tbh. They are undemanding, interesting behavior, and look stunning when lights go down. They love to play in current, and leave fish fry alone.

Very interesting! I was under the impression that they are a good example of an overbred fish. On the other hand, cardinal tetras and green neon tetras are the hardier alternatives. Would definitely like to hear some other opinions on specifically whether neons are overbred.

 

[NotSoAggressiveAquatics]

Very interesting! I was under the impression that they are a good example of an overbred fish. On the other hand, cardinal tetras and green neon tetras are the hardier alternatives. Would definitely like to hear some other opinions on specifically whether neons are overbred.

Yeah neons are over bred and a shell if what they used to be. Cardinals are the better alternative

 

[Freshfishguy]

Yeah neons are over bred and a shell if what they used to be. Cardinals are the better alternative

Thanks Aggressive. Any other suggestions as to fish that in today's age are not overbred?

 

[NotSoAggressiveAquatics]

Thanks Aggressive. Any other suggestions as to fish that in today's age are not overbred?

There’s still a lot of fish that are healthy and not overbred. IMO there’s not many fish that are unhealthily overbred but I’m not denying that there are. Is there a specific fish you want or do you just want some basic knowledge on non overbred fish?

 

[Freshfishguy]

There’s still a lot of fish that are healthy and not overbred. IMO there’s not many fish that are unhealthily overbred but I’m not denying that there are. Is there a specific fish you want or do you just want some basic knowledge on non overbred fish?

Maybe I should have geared this more towards specific fish that are known to be overbred then, since there are less of them than the ones that are not. I am just trying to compile a good list of hardy not overbred fish to have for my reference in the future.

 

[flopperfrog]

Hi guys! I've recently started keeping a list of fish that are known to be hardy and are not overbred, as finding fish that are not overbred seems to be a big tip to a happy aquarium life. So far I have Bolivian Rams, Lemon Tetras, and Honey Gouramis.

What other fish do you know of that are not overbred and are hardy fish?

endlers livebearers?

 

[CHJ]

Wild caught?
Even the neons I buy are wild caught.
I think the only captive bred fish I have that I didn't breed, are BN plecos and some of Liz's angels.

 

[ProudPapa]

• Any tetra except neons (though some are more particular about parameters)
• Any gourami except dwarf
• Rainbowfish

There are many more. Fish that are overbred, and prone to disease and/or genetic problems because of it, would be a much shorter list.

 

[Flyfisha]

A fish that can handle a wide variety of water parameters and temperature that is hardy. But also has a good temperament ( behaves around others) is the sweet little cherry barb.
An under ratted fish in the hobby in my country.
An old photo of them when I just got them . They now have more colour.

 

[BigManAquatics]

A fish that can handle a wide variety of water parameters and temperature that is hardy. But also has a good temperament ( behaves around others) is the sweet little cherry barb.
An under ratted fish in the hobby in my country.View attachment 780829
An old photo of them when I just got them . They now have more colour.

Kind of underrated in the US, too. Everyone too busy getting neons!

 

[Freshfishguy]

A fish that can handle a wide variety of water parameters and temperature that is hardy. But also has a good temperament ( behaves around others) is the sweet little cherry barb.
An under ratted fish in the hobby in my country.View attachment 780829
An old photo of them when I just got them . They now have more colour.

Definitely want some cherry barbs in the future!

 

[Guppy777]

A lot depends on where you get your fish, I bought guppies from pet smart and petco and every single on of them ended up dead. Ended up buying guppies from a member here and they are doing great.

 

[TClare]

Yeah neons are over bred and a shell if what they used to be. Cardinals are the better alternative

My neons have been very healthy, maybe they are closer to wild ones though as I am in Ecuador.

 

[Freshfishguy]

My neons have been very healthy, maybe they are closer to wild ones though as I am in Ecuador.

That’s excellent! Just because a fish is overbred, doesn’t mean there aren’t still healthy specimens out there by any means.

 

[RayClem]

Ther are two conflicting issues. That makes it difficult to determine which fish will be more hardy.

1. Farm raised fish tend to have a limited gene pool. That can make them more susceptible to genetic defects. However, because they are typically raised in water conditions closer to what might be expected in the home aquarium, that can improve their changes of successful acclimation to your tank.

2. Wild caught fish tend to come from a more diverse gene pool which means they are less likely to have genetic defects. However, some of the methods used to capture fish in the wild can be stressful for the fish. Also, in some areas such as the backwaters of the Amazon, the water conditions are much different than they would be in the typical aquarium unless you specifically try to design that type of environment. Transportation of captured fish from these areas to the world markets can be difficult. Thus, while wild caught fish might have better genetics, they may have difficulty surviving the supply chain and acclimating to your specific tank conditions.

Since we rarely know the details of how fish we purchase are procured, it is hard to tell which will be hardy and which will not be. For example, although many Cardinals are wild caught, some are also farm raised. Your LFS is unlikely to know how the fish were sourced.

The best bet may be purchasing fish from responsible hobbyists who breed them and who cull fish that appear weak.

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

A soft water fish can tolerate hard water conditions, but a hard water fish will have trouble in soft water. So water parameters can give the illusion of "weakness" when it is simply not what the fish can adapt to.

Betta smaragdinas in the wild live in pH 4.9 water which can shrink to dirt puddles in the dry season. Yet they survive fine in these conditions so would that be considered "hardy"??

Yet somehow, hobbyists have A LOT of trouble keeping these fish alive and they are considered difficult and fragile fish. Hardiness may simply be a matter of perspective...or water perspective

 

[Freshfishguy]

A soft water fish can tolerate hard water conditions, but a hard water fish will have trouble in soft water. So water parameters can give the illusion of "weakness" when it is simply not what the fish can adapt to.

Betta smaragdinas in the wild live in pH 4.9 water which can shrink to dirt puddles in the dry season. Yet they survive fine in these conditions so would that be considered "hardy"??

Yet somehow, hobbyists have A LOT of trouble keeping these fish alive and they are considered difficult and fragile fish. Hardiness may simply be a matter of perspective...or water perspective

Also a great point! Thank you!

 

[Catappa]

Hi guys! I've recently started keeping a list of fish that are known to be hardy and are not overbred, as finding fish that are not overbred seems to be a big tip to a happy aquarium life. So far I have Bolivian Rams, Lemon Tetras, and Honey Gouramis.

What other fish do you know of that are not overbred and are hardy fish?

I go out of my way to buy wild-caught fish, when possible. Fortunately, there is one aquarium shop in the Netherlands that has mostly wild-caught and rare fish. Unfortunately, it is far from my home and I am reliant on finding a friend to take me there, as I have no transportation (due to some disability, traveling by public transport is not something I want to do). I've just discovered a fairly new, large shop that is only a half-hour away by car and hopefully, a friend can take me soon. I've asked about wild-caught and they will keep me informed about what they have. There have only been excellent reviews of the shop through independent review sites, so I'm feeling hopeful!

From the first-mentioned shop, I still have one remaining Green Neon Tetra that I've had for 5 1/2 years and it appears to still be doing well. I plan to move him
downstairs to the smaller tank that is being cycled and will buy a bunch of his kind (also wild-caught) to keep him company.

Of course, even wild-caught fish can be over-medicated/over-crowded, etc. during transport, but I believe firmly that if you keep them in conditions closer to that of their habitat, they will be considerably hardier than captive-bred specimens.

Ther are two conflicting issues. That makes it difficult to determine which fish will be more hardy.

1. Farm raised fish tend to have a limited gene pool. That can make them more susceptible to genetic defects. However, because they are typically raised in water conditions closer to what might be expected in the home aquarium, that can improve their changes of successful acclimation to your tank.

2. Wild caught fish tend to come from a more diverse gene pool which means they are less likely to have genetic defects. However, some of the methods used to capture fish in the wild can be stressful for the fish. Also, in some areas such as the backwaters of the Amazon, the water conditions are much different than they would be in the typical aquarium unless you specifically try to design that type of environment. Transportation of captured fish from these areas to the world markets can be difficult. Thus, while wild caught fish might have better genetics, they may have difficulty surviving the supply chain and acclimating to your specific tank conditions.

Since we rarely know the details of how fish we purchase are procured, it is hard to tell which will be hardy and which will not be. For example, although many Cardinals are wild caught, some are also farm raised. Your LFS is unlikely to know how the fish were sourced.

The best bet may be purchasing fish from responsible hobbyists who breed them and who cull fish that appear weak.

YES to all you wrote! I didn't read your post until after I posted mine.

 

[Freshfishguy]

This thread has been really insightful for me, so thanks again everyone.

So is it totally a myth/misconception that tank bred fish are hardier and the better option (given that they are from a responsible breeder weeding out deformities)? I’m also a reptile owner, and I’m used to captive bred being hands down no matter what the better move. If wild caught fish are possibly hardier, it would seem to me to be a pretty pervasive misconception amongst semi-experienced and newer hobbiests.

 

[CHJ]

Usually the big draw for wild caught are the genes for your breeding program. This may mean diversity or even a different look (EG Wild Discus).
Tank bred can be much nicer for your F1, F2, etc. Not so good for tight bred F1,000,000. They survive in common water (usually).
For some things you have no choice, you will not fine a mega, triple blue, chrome, long fin, clown, etc, Angel in the wild.
It is always good to know your source. A good LFS knows exactly where their fish came from. So for example
Anglemania.net has bred all their blue angels to the point of being fragile not to mention looking NOTHING like the pictures they have of them.
vs
My LFS where the owner talks about the guy who put on scuba to catch the fish at location X. Come to think of it they do ship some fish.
Some people do not have the luxury of an awesome LFS and have to go online. For online shopping ask around. Some places like The Wetspot (IIRC) have a great reputation. Others invent fish like this

A beautiful example of Photoshopius Dishonesticus. Sold as a rust cory.
When in doubt ask around and check the BBB. I also try to avoid any place that lists every fish under the sun but all are "out of stock"