Frustrated. Problem Tank?

[Lacey Clown]

Okay guys I’m a bit frustrated. I keep losing fish and I don’t know why. Here are the readings.
55 gallon tank.
PH between 7.8-8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
Fish
7 guppies
13 neon tetras
4 cories
3 KuhlI Loaches
1 frog
1 rubber lip
I know Kuhli’s need 6+ as they are shoaling fish. Same with cories. You’ll understand why those numbers are the way they are below. I’m not getting anymore fish until I figure out why I’m having these deaths.
Water changes twice a week Monday’s and Wednesday’s. I’ve been battling nitrates at 40ppm for some time and have gone to once a day feedings and twice weekly water changes at 30 to 40%. Liquid apI master test kit. I’ve also planted live plants to assist. Tank has been up for two years in March. I’ve had nitrate issues when I only had a few fish in the tank. Tap water has been tested. There is no nitrate in my water. That was a year ago though. I may test again to see if there are changes. I use prime as my conditioner. I also do monthly maintenance once a month. I clean filters, decorations, glass, and with every water change, gravel vac. Everything is cleaned in tank water that I take out and put in my fish tank only buckets. Should I clean my filters more often? Maybe that’s causing my nitrate issue. I have two hob filters. Each are good for 60 gallons plus an under gravel filter. Could my issues be old tank syndrom?
In the past six months I have had several fish losses. The losses are 4 KuhlI Loaches. 1 Otto. 1 guppy. 1 Cory and a Cory possibily on his way out.
All new fish and plants are quarantined for a month before introducing to their new home. Quarantine restarts if there are problems with new fish in quarantine.
The Kuhli’s I got maybe 4 months ago. The Otto I’ve had for 7 to 8 months and just lost him this morning. The guppies I’ve had for about 10 months. 4 out of the six cories I’ve had since the tank started. The two newer ones I got about 9 months ago. One of my older ones died 3 months ago. The other one is one of the newer ones. He’s currently in my quarantine tank. The parameters are:
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite o
Nitrate 5
He’s in the hospital tank as of yesterday due to swimming sideways and laying on his side. I’m not sure what’s wrong with him. Maybe swim bladder? His color is good. His fins are not clamped. He seems to be breathing normally. His gills look a little pink. He’s always been a bit round so I don’t think it’s dropsy. His scales from what I can see do not look like they are sticking out. Each time I approach the tank he attempts to swim away. I’ll attach pictures.
All deaths were a surprise. Nothing unusual prior to death.
The only thing new are plants that were quarantined for a month. Which they have all died except for one after planting them in my 55. I’m rather upset as live plants are not cheap. They did fine in quarantine. Annubias and Java Fern. They were put in the tank two weeks ago. The other change is a month ago I started using my no spill python. Everything was thoroughly rinsed with hot water before first use and flushed out after use. I put prime in for the entire volume of the tank before I start refilling with matching water temperature and I also drip prime every ten to fifteen seconds while it fills. Probably overkill but my fishes health is the most important. I have a 150 gallon as well and do the same thing with no fish loss.
Sorry for the long post. Just trying to put out all the information. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I’m doing a water change now on both my 55 and quarantine tank because of my sick Cory.

 

[poppinpinto]

Okay guys I’m a bit frustrated. I keep losing fish and I don’t know why. Here are the readings.
55 gallon tank.
PH between 7.8-8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
Fish
7 guppies
13 neon tetras
4 cories
3 KuhlI Loaches
1 frog
1 rubber lip
I know Kuhli’s need 6+ as they are shoaling fish. Same with cories. You’ll understand why those numbers are the way they are below. I’m not getting anymore fish until I figure out why I’m having these deaths.
Water changes twice a week Monday’s and Wednesday’s. I’ve been battling nitrates at 40ppm for some time and have gone to once a day feedings and twice weekly water changes at 30 to 40%. Liquid apI master test kit. I’ve also planted live plants to assist. Tank has been up for two years in March. I’ve had nitrate issues when I only had a few fish in the tank. Tap water has been tested. There is no nitrate in my water. That was a year ago though. I may test again to see if there are changes. I use prime as my conditioner. I also do monthly maintenance once a month. I clean filters, decorations, glass, and with every water change, gravel vac. Everything is cleaned in tank water that I take out and put in my fish tank only buckets. Should I clean my filters more often? Maybe that’s causing my nitrate issue. I have two hob filters. Each are good for 60 gallons plus an under gravel filter. Could my issues be old tank syndrom?
In the past six months I have had several fish losses. The losses are 4 KuhlI Loaches. 1 Otto. 1 guppy. 1 Cory and a Cory possibily on his way out.
All new fish and plants are quarantined for a month before introducing to their new home. Quarantine restarts if there are problems with new fish in quarantine.
The Kuhli’s I got maybe 4 months ago. The Otto I’ve had for 7 to 8 months and just lost him this morning. The guppies I’ve had for about 10 months. 4 out of the six cories I’ve had since the tank started. The two newer ones I got about 9 months ago. One of my older ones died 3 months ago. The other one is one of the newer ones. He’s currently in my quarantine tank. The parameters are:
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite o
Nitrate 5
He’s in the hospital tank as of yesterday due to swimming sideways and laying on his side. I’m not sure what’s wrong with him. Maybe swim bladder? His color is good. His fins are not clamped. He seems to be breathing normally. His gills look a little pink. He’s always been a bit round so I don’t think it’s dropsy. His scales from what I can see do not look like they are sticking out. Each time I approach the tank he attempts to swim away. I’ll attach pictures.
All deaths were a surprise. Nothing unusual prior to death.
The only thing new are plants that were quarantined for a month. Which they have all died except for one after planting them in my 55. I’m rather upset as live plants are not cheap. They did fine in quarantine. Annubias and Java Fern. They were put in the tank two weeks ago. The other change is a month ago I started using my no spill python. Everything was thoroughly rinsed with hot water before first use and flushed out after use. I put prime in for the entire volume of the tank before I start refilling with matching water temperature and I also drip prime every ten to fifteen seconds while it fills. Probably overkill but my fishes health is the most important. I have a 150 gallon as well and do the same thing with no fish loss.
Sorry for the long post. Just trying to put out all the information. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I’m doing a water change now on both my 55 and quarantine tank because of my sick Cory.

Sorry to hear that. For the Cory in the hospital tank try lowering the water level. Relieve some of the pressure. Good luck to you

 

[Lacey Clown]

Sorry to hear that. For the Cory in the hospital tank try lowering the water level. Relieve some of the pressure. Good luck to you

The water is lowered do to evaporation. I also have a bubbler to help with water movement on the surface and oxygen flow.
Thank you for your kind words.

 

[mattgirl]

I could be grasping at straws here but have you considered your under gravel filter may be the reason for your high nitrates. The problem with those types of filter is detritus builds up in them over time and they can't really be cleaned.

Personally I stopped using them years ago when I saw just how much stuff gets trapped in them. Your gravel vac will pull some of the stuff out but there is no way to get even a fraction of it out.

I can't say this is why you are losing fish but might be something to think about if we can't come up with anything else.

 

[poppinpinto]

How thick is your substrate?

 

[Lacey Clown]

I could be grasping at straws here but have you considered your under gravel filter may be the reason for your high nitrates. The problem with those types of filter is detritus builds up in them over time and they can't really be cleaned.

Personally I stopped using them years ago when I saw just how much stuff gets trapped in them. Your gravel vac will pull some of the stuff out but there is no way to get even a fraction of it out.

I can't say this is why you are losing fish but might be something to think about if we can't come up with anything else.

Yes I have considered that as a problem. The reason I don’t think it is, is because my 150 gallon doesn’t have an underground filter and I have problems with nitrates there too. I also clean under the underground filter once every six months one side at a time. Meaning six months later I do the other side. As the last time I did both at once, I restarted my nitrogen cycle. Newbie mistake. Fortunately that mistake didn’t cost any fish life. Phew! All thanks to this forum. It’s a chore but worth it for the health of my fish.
I appreciate your response.

How thick is your substrate?

2 to two and a half inches. caribsea safe for freashwater rays. I got it specifically for my bottom feeders to protect their barbs and bodies.

 

[mattgirl]

It is always good to cross something off the list of potential reasons. I really wish I knew why you are losing some of your water pets. I know not knowing is so very frustrating and heartbreaking watching them struggle and no knowing what to do to help them. I am really sorry I don't have an answer for you

I also struggle with high nitrates but I know in my case it is because of my stocking. I not only have a BN Pleco but also way more cory's than I should have in my 55. They got way too comfortable and were breeding like crazy. I now remove every egg they lay.

 

[poppinpinto]

2 to two and a half inches. caribsea safe for freashwater rays. I got it specifically for my bottom feeders to protect their barbs and bodies.

Ok cause gravel vac is sometimes dangerous due to gases trapped in the substrate.

 

[Lacey Clown]

It is always good to cross something off the list of potential reasons. I really wish I knew why you are losing some of your water pets. I know not knowing is so very frustrating and heartbreaking watching them struggle and no knowing what to do to help them. I am really sorry I don't have an answer for you

I also struggle with high nitrates but I know in my case it is because of my stocking. I not only have a BN Pleco but also way more cory's than I should have in my 55. They got way too comfortable and were breeding like crazy. I now remove every egg they lay.

I really appreciate your insight. Thank you so much.

Ok cause gravel vac is sometimes dangerous due to gases trapped in the substrate.

Would that be a problem even though my substrate isn’t sand? I do have bubblers underneath my substrate and an under ground filter. I’ll take a picture of my substrate.

Ok cause gravel vac is sometimes dangerous due to gases trapped in the substrate.

Here are some pictures of my substrate.

 

[poppinpinto]

View attachment 458514 View attachment 458515
Here are some pictures of my substrate.

In my planted tank I never gravel vac. Plants and bacteria take care of the bio waste.

 

[Lacey Clown]

In my planted tank I never gravel vac. Plants and bacteria take care of the bio waste.

Currently I have only one surviving plant. So I’m not heavily planted. I simply don’t understand why my plants java fern and annubias keep dying. They thrive in My 150 and quarantine tanks. But when I move the plants in my 55 they keep dying. I don’t get it. I’ve spent at least a hundred dollars if not more trying to plant this tank. Argh.

Okay so I have two plants in my 55 gallon.

Here are my plants in my 150. They are doing well.

 

[poppinpinto]

Currently I have only one surviving plant. So I’m not heavily planted. I simply don’t understand why my plants java fern and annubias keep dying. They thrive in My 150 and quarantine tanks. But when I move the plants in my 55 they keep dying. I don’t get it. I’ve spent at least a hundred dollars if not more trying to plant this tank. Argh.

Remember that annubias and java fern are risone plants. Don't plant in the substrate. It will cause them to rot. They prefer to be on wood or rocks. You can use super glue gel to attach on your hardscape.

 

[Lacey Clown]

Remember that annubias and java fern are risone plants. Don't plant in the substrate. It will cause them to rot. They prefer to be on wood or rocks. You can use super glue gel to attach on your hardscape.

That may be my problem. I’ll have to look at risone as I’m not familiar with what it looks like. Thank you. Seems I’ve been killing my plants. Smh.

 

[poppinpinto]

That may be my problem. I’ll have to look at risone as I’m not familiar with what it looks like. Thank you. Seems I’ve been killing my plants. Smh.

I recommend you check on YouTube All great channels with tons of information and these people are so amazing will try to help as much as they can. They have video on everything. Learning so much from their content.
Do u dose fertz?

 

[Lacey Clown]

Do u dose fertz?

Thank you so much! I’m going to check them out today.
I don’t fertilize as the fertizler I have found has copper as an ingredient. I have clown loaches, KuhlI Loaches, and cories. All scaleless fish who are sensitive to copper.

 

[poppinpinto]

Thank you so much! I’m going to check them out today.
I don’t fertilize as the fertizler I have found has copper as an ingredient. I have clown loaches, KuhlI Loaches, and cories. All scaleless fish who are sensitive to copper.

I use easy green love it so far. Very simple to use.
U are very welcome. Hope you get it resolved .

 

[Lacey Clown]

I am sad to report that my Cory has passed over the fish rainbow bridge. Attached are pictures I took before he met his final resting place. I see nothing that would explain his death. I do however have a worrisome guppy with a white mark on his upper body near his top fin. Larger than a grain of salt. And a shredded tail. I’ll post a pic of him too. He’s in quarantine.
With two fish deaths in 24 hours and another not looking healthy I may treat with medication. I don’t like treating with meds but at this point what other choices do I have?
My medication is safe for scaleless fish. I’ll post a pic of said medication.

 

[poppinpinto]

I am sad to report that my Cory has passed over the fish rainbow bridge. Attached are pictures I took before he met his final resting place. I see nothing that would explain his death. I do however have a worrisome guppy with a white mark on his upper body near his top fin. Larger than a grain of salt. And a shredded tail. I’ll post a pic of him too. He’s in quarantine.
With two fish deaths in 24 hours and another not looking healthy I may treat with medication. I don’t like treating with meds but at this point what other choices do I have?
My medication is safe for scaleless fish. I’ll post a pic of said medication.

great combination of meds. Proven to work.

 

[McGoo]

Currently I have only one surviving plant. So I’m not heavily planted. I simply don’t understand why my plants java fern and annubias keep dying. They thrive in My 150 and quarantine tanks. But when I move the plants in my 55 they keep dying. I don’t get it. I’ve spent at least a hundred dollars if not more trying to plant this tank. Argh.

View attachment 458526 Okay so I have two plants in my 55 gallon.

View attachment 458527 Here are my plants in my 150. They are doing well.

Ok so maybe a dumb question but did you plant the rhyzome on the anubias directly into the substrate? If so, that'll cause it to rot and the plant to die. Usually you tie anubias too a hard scape of some sort. Just asking because I can't tell from the pictures. The ph does seem a little high, I could be wrong if your fish are compatible with that ph. It looks like perhaps one plant in your 55 is a sword plant, and is just melting away it's leaves. A lot of plants bought in the store are grown immursed(above water level) and have access to lots of co2. When they enter a new environment, they have to adapt and grow new leaves for the environment. Amazon swords have teardrop shaped leaves at the end of the stem when they grow immursed. Submerged, they grow long narrow and pointy. They usually come back no problem, just need time.

 

[Lacey Clown]

Ok so maybe a dumb question but did you plant the rhyzome on the anubias directly into the substrate? If so, that'll cause it to rot and the plant to die. Usually you tie anubias too a hard scape of some sort. Just asking because I can't tell from the pictures. The ph does seem a little high, I could be wrong if your fish are compatible with that ph. It looks like perhaps one plant in your 55 is a sword plant, and is just melting away it's leaves. A lot of plants bought in the store are grown immursed(above water level) and have access to lots of co2. When they enter a new environment, they have to adapt and grow new leaves for the environment. Amazon swords have teardrop shaped leaves at the end of the stem when they grow immursed. Submerged, they grow long narrow and pointy. They usually come back no problem, just need time.

Not a dumb question. Yes I planted it in the substrate. Could be sword. I usually stick with Java Fern and annubias as they’re easier to keep with my not so green thumb and they’re hardy when it comes to clown loaches. Though my 55 doesn’t have my clown loaches so I do remember opting for a sword or two in the 55. I did plant my java fern and annubias in the substrate in my 150 and they are flourishing. As for my ph, it’s my water. The fish I purchased were from my local area so the water parameters are the same in my home and the store I purchased them from. I do have some large pieces of driftwood and I am going to get more. I’m also going to get some peet moss and put it in my filters to help lower the ph. I was going to put almond leaves in there but I’m allergic to almonds. I frequently go into my tanks to prune dead leaves off my plants. I’m not sure if almond leaves and almond nuts are similar so I’m weary of an allergic reaction. I’d love to get almond leaves as I’ve read not only do they lower ph but also have some properties to help keep fish heathy. Any guidance on almond leave would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Neutral-Waterinos]

Not a dumb question. Yes I planted it in the substrate. Could be sword. I usually stick with Java Fern and annubias as they’re easier to keep with my not so green thumb and they’re hardy when it comes to clown loaches. Though my 55 doesn’t have my clown loaches so I do remember opting for a sword or two in the 55. I did plant my java fern and annubias in the substrate in my 150 and they are flourishing. As for my ph, it’s my water. The fish I purchased were from my local area so the water parameters are the same in my home and the store I purchased them from. I do have some large pieces of driftwood and I am going to get more. I’m also going to get some peet moss and put it in my filters to help lower the ph. I was going to put almond leaves in there but I’m allergic to almonds. I frequently go into my tanks to prune dead leaves off my plants. I’m not sure if almond leaves and almond nuts are similar so I’m weary of an allergic reaction. I’d love to get almond leaves as I’ve read not only do they lower ph but also have some properties to help keep fish heathy. Any guidance on almond leave would be greatly appreciated.

Sheesh man I wish u all the best. I feel so bad for that Cory, they’re so innocent with their moustaches lol. Rest in piece. We’re all ur fish quarantined before adding to the tank? There must be some reason why this is happening... is there any fish that harass each other or something that could possibly stress them out? Do you recall wht your fishes were acting like prior to death? We’re their symptoms the same?

 

[Lacey Clown]

Sheesh man I wish u all the best. I feel so bad for that Cory, they’re so innocent with their moustaches lol. Rest in piece. We’re all ur fish quarantined before adding to the tank? There must be some reason why this is happening... is there any fish that harass each other or something that could possibly stress them out? Do you recall wht your fishes were acting like prior to death? We’re their symptoms the same?

Yes all fish and plants are quarantined for a month before they’re put into their new home. If there’s a problem during quarantine the time starts over after the fish are better. All my fish are peaceful. I haven’t seen any harassment from any fish. My neon tetras and guppies school together and my Kuhli’s and cories sleep together. The only fish that showed symptoms of something was the cory. He was swimming sideways and laying sideways. It happened overnight. He was fine the day before. Once I saw that I moved him to my quarantine tank and immediately got on here. I did research of his symptoms and it sounded like swim bladder. I was headed to the store to get some peas when he passed. The other deaths were all surprises. Nothing unusual to indicate a sickness.
I just purchased a new python a month ago. The python has great suction and takes water out quickly. I typically do 20-30 percent water changes twice a week. With the new python I’m taking 30-40 percent out. Could that be the issue? To much water being changed? I do bI weekly changes because my nitrates are a consistent 40ppm so I’m trying to slowly lower them. After a month of bI weekly changes, yesterday’s readings were at 20ppm for nitrates. That’s the only thing that’s really changed aside from planting live plants three weeks ago and they were quarantined for a month before they went into the tank.
I did notice one of my guppies has a shredded tail and a couple white dots on his body. It’s not ick that I’m sure of. He’s acting normal and eating. So I did a water change on the tank since I had two deaths, fed the tank some garlic soaked blood worms, and decided to treat the tank with medication. I don’t like medicating but with two deaths in 24 hours and a guppy looking unhealthy I thought this was my last option. The medication is parashield made by mardel. The ingredients are capsaicin oil, chitosan, d-limonene, manuka oil, neem oil. It’s safe for all fish at full dose for even loaches. It’s safe for invertebrates at half dose 12 hours apart. It was recommended by my lfs who only uses this medication for their fish. It covers three illnesses ick, protozoan velvet, and parasites. Even better, it doesn’t destroy your B.B.. The guppy is already looking better. The spots are fading, his color is brighter.

 

[McGoo]

Not a dumb question. Yes I planted it in the substrate. Could be sword. I usually stick with Java Fern and annubias as they’re easier to keep with my not so green thumb and they’re hardy when it comes to clown loaches. Though my 55 doesn’t have my clown loaches so I do remember opting for a sword or two in the 55. I did plant my java fern and annubias in the substrate in my 150 and they are flourishing. As for my ph, it’s my water. The fish I purchased were from my local area so the water parameters are the same in my home and the store I purchased them from. I do have some large pieces of driftwood and I am going to get more. I’m also going to get some peet moss and put it in my filters to help lower the ph. I was going to put almond leaves in there but I’m allergic to almonds. I frequently go into my tanks to prune dead leaves off my plants. I’m not sure if almond leaves and almond nuts are similar so I’m weary of an allergic reaction. I’d love to get almond leaves as I’ve read not only do they lower ph but also have some properties to help keep fish heathy. Any guidance on almond leave would be greatly appreciated.

I've heard that almond leaves can be beneficial for the tank, however I'm not too sure about to many of the details. I've never really delved into it myself so I don't have any experience with it. Hopefully someone in this community can give you a littler more insight on the topic. Sorry to hear about your fish by the way. Nothing worse than losing fish and not being able to narrow down the issue. Good luck

 

[jdhef]

I've heard that almond leaves can be beneficial for the tank, however I'm not too sure about to many of the details. I've never really delved into it myself so I don't have any experience with it. Hopefully someone in this community can give you a littler more insight on the topic. Sorry to hear about your fish by the way. Nothing worse than losing fish and not being able to narrow down the issue. Good luck

McGoo So as not to hijack this thread, you should start a new thread asking about it.

 

[bitseriously]

I just read this thread from the beginning (ie I haven't been following since it was created), so apologies if I'm missing something.
With no nitrates in your tap water (have you also tested your tap water for ammo and nitrites?), a reasonable bioload, and large frequent water changes, you should be seeing way less nitrates in your tank. You shouldn't be fighting to stay below 40. Nitrate concentration is proportional to ammonia production (1 ammo = 1 nitrite = 1 nitrate). So where's it all coming from? My first guess (probably everyone's first guess) would be overfeeding. But you've been at this for a while, so you should be on top of that. Unless you have a "I have to overfeed so fish x who is lazy and has trouble getting food gets enough" situation?
I've never used UGF so I don't know how much waste they hold (seems to be the opposite to what they're supposed to do, no?), but if it's a lot, then cleaning it out (removing them entirely?) should resolve that issue.
But, we still don't have a direct connection between nitrates and deaths. 40 is high, but shouldn't be killing your fish.
The pattern of deaths is sort of consistent with a slow lurking pathogen. Something that is not immediately virulent, passes slowly from fish to fish, but over the long term can be fatal. The ones that spring to mind include columnaris (slower strains), callamanus, internal parasites, and internal bacterial infection. Gee, that's not a scary list.
I've read about callamanus infestations where the initial deaths don't show the red butt worms of death. Maybe that doesn't show up until a heavier tank load is achieved. But it's certainly not the one I'd think is most likely here.
If you are going to medicate, I like poppinpinto's suggestion of the triple whammy that Cory uses. That would take care of the internal parasites and bact infections (most anyways).
All that said, let's hope the med you've started with (not really a medication, more of a medicine alternative) shows results, and things stabilize. Keep us posted!

 

[Lacey Clown]

I've heard that almond leaves can be beneficial for the tank, however I'm not too sure about to many of the details. I've never really delved into it myself so I don't have any experience with it. Hopefully someone in this community can give you a littler more insight on the topic. Sorry to hear about your fish by the way. Nothing worse than losing fish and not being able to narrow down the issue. Good luck

Thank you for your kind words.

McGoo So as not to hijack this thread, you should start a new thread asking about it.

That was me. I’ll start a new thread specific to almond leaves. Thank you kindly for the idea.

I just read this thread from the beginning (ie I haven't been following since it was created), so apologies if I'm missing something.
With no nitrates in your tap water (have you also tested your tap water for ammo and nitrites?), a reasonable bioload, and large frequent water changes, you should be seeing way less nitrates in your tank. You shouldn't be fighting to stay below 40. Nitrate concentration is proportional to ammonia production (1 ammo = 1 nitrite = 1 nitrate). So where's it all coming from? My first guess (probably everyone's first guess) would be overfeeding. But you've been at this for a while, so you should be on top of that. Unless you have a "I have to overfeed so fish x who is lazy and has trouble getting food gets enough" situation?
I've never used UGF so I don't know how much waste they hold (seems to be the opposite to what they're supposed to do, no?), but if it's a lot, then cleaning it out (removing them entirely?) should resolve that issue.
But, we still don't have a direct connection between nitrates and deaths. 40 is high, but shouldn't be killing your fish.
The pattern of deaths is sort of consistent with a slow lurking pathogen. Something that is not immediately virulent, passes slowly from fish to fish, but over the long term can be fatal. The ones that spring to mind include columnaris (slower strains), callamanus, internal parasites, and internal bacterial infection. Gee, that's not a scary list.
I've read about callamanus infestations where the initial deaths don't show the red butt worms of death. Maybe that doesn't show up until a heavier tank load is achieved. But it's certainly not the one I'd think is most likely here.
If you are going to medicate, I like poppinpinto's suggestion of the triple whammy that Cory uses. That would take care of the internal parasites and bact infections (most anyways).
All that said, let's hope the med you've started with (not really a medication, more of a medicine alternative) shows results, and things stabilize. Keep us posted!

I have tested my tap water in the past. About a year ago. The readings were as follows.
PH 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
I just tested my tap water again. The readings are:
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
I know in the past I did over feed and I’ve made adjustments since then. I went from twice a day feeding to once a day feeding. The fish eat the food within 45 seconds. I feed a pinch of food to my top dwellers and loach wafers and algae wafers to my cories and loaches.
I’ll break the tanks down with what I feed to each and also list the inhabitants per tank. By doing so maybe you can tell me if I’m still over feeding.
My nitrates have never gone over 40. Currently with the bI weekly changes the nitrates are sitting at 20 as of my Sunday reading. I test my water once a week but have been testing more frequently since the two deaths the other day.
Here goes.
My 55 gallon fish list:
7 guppies
13 neon tetras
1 African dwarf frog
1 rubber lip
2 cories
2 Kuhlis
Once I figure out what’s going on in my tank I’ll get my cory and KuhlI numbers back up.
This tank gets a variety of foods from frozen bloodworms, frozen shrimp brine, omega one fish flakes, omega one minI pellets, omega one veggie fish pellets. The bottom dwellers get the frozen foods as well, omega one algae wafers, loach cory sinking wafers.
Here’s the schedule.
Monday’s: bloodworms for entire tank. I use a fourth of the gumdrop/container for the tank. I have a plunger I use to get the food down to the bottom feeders and frog. I put in one or two loach wafers to ensure the bottom dwellers get something as the guppies and tetras tend to steal the bottom feeders food even though I feed them first and on the other side of the tank. The loach wafers are small, the size of a pencil eraser.
Tuesday’s: a pinch of flakes size of a mechanical smaller pencil eraser. The bottom feeders get one algae wafer.
Wednesday’s: shrimp brine. Same procedure and amount as Monday.
Thursday’s: omega one minI pellets. Same amount and procedure as Tuesday. Both top/mid dwellers and bottom dwellers.
Friday’s: omega one veggie minI pellets and veggie wafer for the bottom dwellers.
Saturday’s: flakes and loach wafers. Same amount and procedure as the other days.
Sunday’s: veggie minI pellets and one algae wafer.
My 150 gallon fish list:
8 Buenos Aires tetras
8 Black skirt tetras
8 serpae tetras
8 clown Loaches from 2”-4 1/2” in length
1 bristle nose
Feeding schedule is the same as the 55.
The amounts are slightly different as the fish are larger. The flakes and minI pellets are a pinch the size of a regular non mechanical pencil eraser. The frozen foods are a whole container of frozen food. Approximately 30% goes the the Terra’s and the rest is fed to the loaches. The loach wafers I put in 4 on meat feeding days Monday, Wednesday’s and Friday’s. Friday I feed just the loaches frozen beefheart and I only feed half the container. On non meat days they get three veggie wafers.
The 55 has an underground filter. The 150 does not have an underground filter. It does have a hob good for 110 gallons and a canister fx6.
I will be purchasing the med trio that was suggested. I just need to find out if it’s safe for scaleless fish. So far the guppy that wasn’t looking good looks 75% better. His color is back, the white marks are fading, and his tail is looking better. All other inhabitants are looking good and acting normal. I will be taking the pictures I took to my local lfs and talking to them about the situation. I’ll bring water samples as well to see if we can nip this in the bud. This could very well be it was time for the fish to go and nothing I did. But the guppy makes me think different.
I appreciate your response. I hope I was able to give you a better picture of the situation as it pertains to my nitrate issue. I’m not perfect and may still be over feeding. I certainly don’t want to harm my fish by over feeding. Here’s another thought. I only rinse out my hob filters once a month and my canister filters every three months (per manufacturer instructions for the canister). I don’t rinse them all at once, ie.. I have two hobs on my 55 and each monthly maintenance I squeeze and rinse just one hob in tank water. The next monthly I do the other one. Should I rinse them more often then once a month? Could that be my nitrate issue?

 

[bitseriously]

I don’t think your filter maintenance is the (sole) cause of your nitrate levels.
When I say or suggest they’re high, what I mean is that for a reasonable bioload (and both your tanks appear reasonable in that regard), a single water change in the 20 to 30% range would, presumably, keep your nitrate levels lower than say 20 ppm. The fact that you’re changing more than that amount twice a week to keep nitrate levels where they are is what makes me think that somewhere, somehow too much organic matter is getting into your tank.
So typically, the cause of that at least in situations like this would be over feeding. You put a ton of detail in your description above, and it’s great that you’re feeding such a high diversity of foods, But even with all the information you provided, it’s hard to say if you’re over feeding or not. Keep in mind, your fish can easily go with little to no food for days or weeks at a time, so I would suggest a trial of sorts. Try feeding every other day for a couple weeks, but don’t increase how much you feed at feeding time, and see what happens to nitrate levels over that time

 

[Lacey Clown]

I don’t think your filter maintenance is the (sole) cause of your nitrate levels.
When I say or suggest they’re high, what I mean is that for a reasonable bioload (and both your tanks appear reasonable in that regard), a single water change in the 20 to 30% range would, presumably, keep your nitrate levels lower than say 20 ppm. The fact that you’re changing more than that amount twice a week to keep nitrate levels where they are is what makes me think that somewhere, somehow too much organic matter is getting into your tank.
So typically, the cause of that at least in situations like this would be over feeding. You put a ton of detail in your description above, and it’s great that you’re feeding such a high diversity of foods, But even with all the information you provided, it’s hard to say if you’re over feeding or not. Keep in mind, your fish can easily go with little to no food for days or weeks at a time, so I would suggest a trial of sorts. Try feeding every other day for a couple weeks, but don’t increase how much you feed at feeding time, and see what happens to nitrate levels over that time

Thank you so much. I will feed every other day and see how that fairs with my nitrates. I’m also going to be putting more live plants in now that I know how to plant them. I appreciate your insight. Thank you so much.

 

[Inactive User]

1 ammo = 1 nitrite = 1 nitrate

The relationship is actually: 1 ammonia = 2.7 nitrite = 3.54 nitrate.

So typically, the cause of that at least in situations like this would be over feeding.

This is likely the case.

There's a lot of generalisations involved in the following, but assuming complete conversion of ammonia into nitrate, 1 gram of fish food (with 40% protein content) will result in approximately 50 mg of nitrate.

To maintain a reading of 20 ppm nitrate in a 55 gallon tank at the end of 7 days, you will need to feed a maximum of 11.2 grams of fish food per day.

As you can tell, that's still quite a lot of fish food per day given that canisters are usually sold per 100 to 200 grams.

As a point of comparison, Sanaye, Singh and Tibile (2012) conducted a study examining the maximisation of growth for neon tetras in commercial aquaculture systems. These tetras were fed fish food at a rate of 2% of their biomass, and the approximate weight of a neon tetra at the end of rearing (when they're then shipped to your LFS) is 115 mg.

11.2 grams of fish food per day would be enough to support ~5,000 neon tetras.

 

[MN Mike]

That may be my problem. I’ll have to look at risone as I’m not familiar with what it looks like. Thank you. Seems I’ve been killing my plants. Smh.

The risome is the horizontal "stem" that the shoots grow off of. I super glue all of my similar plants to rocks or decorations and they do lovely. However, based on your fish, it seems like there is another imbalance.

 

[bitseriously]

The relationship is actually: 1 ammonia = 2.7 nitrite = 3.54 nitrate.

Can you learn me on this? Each of these molecules has 1 nitrogen atom. How do you derive 3.5 nitrates from a single ammonia? Or, are you saying that 1 ppm ammonia yields 3.5 ppm nitrate, in which case I’d be less wrong, but still not right, and still need some ‘splaining.

 

[Inactive User]

Can you learn me on this? Each of these molecules has 1 nitrogen atom. How do you derive 3.5 nitrates from a single ammonia? Or, are you saying that 1 ppm ammonia yields 3.5 ppm nitrate, in which case I’d be less wrong, but still not right, and still need some ‘splaining.

That's right, I should've been clearer: it's the ratio of molar mass for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

I also made a small error: it should be 3.64 nitrate and not 3.54 (I've edited this correction so as to not confuse others!).

Ammonia (NH3): 17.031 g/mol
Nitrite (NO2): 46.005 g/mol
Nitrate (NO3): 62.005 g/mol

A mole is a unit of measurement for 6.022*10^23 atoms, molecules, protons, electrons, etc. For example, a molar mass of 17.031 g/mol for ammonia means that 6.022*10^23 molecules of NH3 weighs 17.031 g.

You're right that each of these molecules possesses one nitrogen atom. But it's important to recognise that each nitrogen atom becomes part of increasingly more massive molecules as the hydrogen from ammonia is replaced with two oxygen atoms to form nitrite, and a further oxygen atom added to form nitrate.

Let's take a tank with 1 mg/L (= 1 ppm) of ammonia. Using its molar mass of 17.031 g/mol, we can see that there are 3.536*10^19 molecules of NH3 in 1 mg of NH3 per litre. Each molecule of NH3 has one nitrogen atom, and so during the oxidation of 1 mg/L ammonia there will be 3.536*10^19 atoms of N made available to form nitrite.

As NO2 has one N atom, these 3.536*10^19 atoms of N will enable the formation of 3.536*10^19 molecules of NO2. However, nitrite has a molar mass of 46.005 grams per 6.022*10^23 molecules of NO2, substantially more than ammonia's molar mass of 17.031 grams per 6.022*10^23 molecules of NH3: 2.7 times more massive (46.005 / 17.031). And so 3.536*10^19 molecules of No2 will result in a concentration of 2.7 nitrite mg/L (= 2.7 nitrite ppm). The number of molecules from ammonia to nitrite is constant, but the concentration has increased due to nitrite's greater molar mass.

The same line of thinking can be applied for nitrite to nitrate.

 

[bitseriously]

The number of molecules from ammonia to nitrite is constant, but the concentration has increased due to nitrite's greater molar mass.

So your math gives concentration as mass per unit of volume (which translates to mg/L or ppm, a language we all use), where mine (1:1:1) gives concentration as number of molecules per unit volume (which is useful to no one but myself ). And [quick trip to internet], the denominator in this (volume) is a substitution for mass, because water (standard substance) is 1 kg/L or 1,000,000 mg/L. So ppm is in fact giving milligrams of x per million milligrams of [water].
Cool. And thanks!

I also made a small error

Well, how can I believe anything you said now?

 

[davidt39]

Lacey, do you have any snails in your tank? I am currently cycling a 20 gallon for dwarf shrimp. Rob from Flip Aquatics recommends using Rabbit or Malaysian Trumpet snails because they burrow in the substrate which releases any trapped gas. They also help keep the tank cycled because the shrimp do not produce much waste. My two cents worth. Good luck.

 

[EbiAqua]

Lacey, do you have any snails in your tank? I am currently cycling a 20 gallon for dwarf shrimp. Rob from Flip Aquatics recommends using Rabbit or Malaysian Trumpet snails because they burrow in the substrate which releases any trapped gas. They also help keep the tank cycled because the shrimp do not produce much waste. My two cents worth. Good luck.

Breeding shrimp at home and at work.

At work the substrate is black sand, I added about 200 MTS to the tank to help keep it clean and aerated. Also keep tons of plants in the built-in sump for super efficient filtration and nitrate control. Cleanest, best looking tank in the store and the shrimp are breeding like rabbits.

 

[davidt39]

Good to hear. I’m hoping I will enjoy your success with some Crystal Reds. 200 MTS’s? What size is the tank? I understand they reproduce quickly.

 

[EbiAqua]

Good to hear. I’m hoping I will enjoy your success with some Crystal Reds. 200 MTS’s? What size is the tank? I understand they reproduce quickly.

Tank is a 30 gallon with integrated sump. The population has been self-limiting; there are empty shells littered everywhere but barely a trace of nitrate due to the filtration (not to mention a breeding population of dwarf crayfish that snack on the occasional snail). There are still a lot of snails (ramshorn and MTS) and they reproduce, but it is a sustainable population.

Good luck with the crystal reds, looking at getting some of those or Taiwan bees next month.

 

[Pescado_Verde]

Where do you store your Python?

 

[davidt39]

Tank is a 30 gallon with integrated sump. The population has been self-limiting; there are empty shells littered everywhere but barely a trace of nitrate due to the filtration (not to mention a breeding population of dwarf crayfish that snack on the occasional snail). There are still a lot of snails (ramshorn and MTS) and they reproduce, but it is a sustainable population.

Good luck with the crystal reds, looking at getting some of those or Taiwan bees next month.

I intend to buy my shrimp at Flip Aquatics. The owner, Rob, is a shrimp expert. His shrimp are not cheap, but I’m going for quality this time. I’ve lost too many less expensive shrimp.

I had a tank that was overwhelmed with snails. I put in a half dozen Gold Zebra loaches. Problem solved. They also add a lot of interest to the tank.