New World cichlids that won't kill dither fish.

[teach701]

As I've been researching cichlids it seems that in some cases cichlids will kill dither fish. I read things like keeping fast dish and having escape routes. Personally I think it's pretty sick to want to watch that. So my question is which cichlids generally would prey on dither fish?

 

[SparkyJones]

All of them. If it can fit in their mouths they can eat them. if it can't eat them, it still may beat them to death out of territorialness or aggression. There can be exceptions on a case by case basis based on the temperment of the individual fish but the norm is they will eat the little guys and beat to death bigger guys for being annoying or entering their space. They'll do it to each other sometimes also.

There's no guarantees with cichlids of any types really the possibility is always there even in the most seemingly peaceful of them.

 

[teach701]

Even dwarf cichlids?

 

[A201]

You can size up the killing potential of just about any Cichlid by judging the size of its mouth & jaws. It's really not rocket science.

Dither fish are simply active fish that entice a reclusive tankmate to relax a become more active.

Buenos Aires Tetras and Giant Danios are two of the best "dither"
fish, with the athleticism to avoid the snapping jaws of hungry Cichlids.

 

[RayClem]

I have had good success using Jack Dempsey cichlids in community tanks. They can be aggressive toward other tank members, but I have found that they are often the policeman of the tank.

Fifty years ago, it was legal to purchase snakeheads from Southeast Asia. They are a very interesting fish, but are now banned. When I purchased it, the LFS owner warned me that it was aggressive, but I already had some aggressive fish such as the Jack Dempsey. As soon as I introduced the snakehead to the tank, it started chasing some of the smaller fish. The Jack Dempsey did not take kindly to an intruder interrupting the peace in HIS tank. He came up behind the snakehead and tried to swallow the back half. The JD was swimming around the tank with the business end of the snakehead protruding from its jaws. Justice had been done. As soon as I removed the remnants of the snakehead from the tank, everything returned to its normal peaceful state.

 

[teach701]

You can size up the killing potential of just about any Cichlid by judging the size of its mouth & jaws. It's really not rocket science.

Dither fish are simply active fish that entice a reclusive tankmate to relax a become more active.

Buenos Aires Tetras and Giant Danios are two of the best "dither"
fish, with the athleticism to avoid the snapping jaws of hungry Cichlids.

What about big fish like silver dollars? Are they generally left alone? Or exceptionally aggressive smaller ones like tiger barbs?

 

[TClare]

Dwarf cichlids will not usually attack dither fish such as small tetras. I have kept Apistogramma "Ladislao" (which has quite a big mouth) with ruby tetras, which are pretty small. I have kept other Apistos as well as Laetacara araguaiae with neon tetras and pencilfish. I have even kept angelfish with the latter, but they grew up together, which I think probably makes a difference, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend this. Many other cichlids, such as the eartheaters for example, are not particularly piscivorous, but most may take advantage of very small fish given the chance, larger dither fish will be safe with them. Angelfish, and many acara types tend more towards predatory behaviour. Then there are those that are truly predatory like the pike cichlids, Cichla species, oscars and several central American species that will definitely attack and try to eat other fish.

Territorial aggression is a different issue and again will depend on the species (sometimes even the individual) in question, tank size and layout etc. and whether or not there is a potential breeding situation. I haven't even mentioned African cichlids as I don't have direct experience with them but again there are many different behavioral types..

There are 2000- 3000 known species of cichlid, with likely many more still to be described, its impossible to generalize and very wrong to say that cichlids will always attack dither fish. Many, probably most, can be kept with other fishes, but these species should obviously be chosen carefully to be compatible in terms of size and behaviour - so research suitable dither fish based on the specific cichlid species you are considering keeping.

 

[A201]

I've kept Silver Dollars with Green Terrors, Red Terrors and Jack Dempseys. They did fine.

I've seen video of Tiger Barbs being kept with a group of Piranhas and with African Cichlids. Pretty tuff customers.

I briefly kept a big group of Tiger Barbs with a full grown Chocolate Cichlid. The Barbs made the big Chocolate miserable, never letting him rest due to constant nipping.

 

[TClare]

The Barbs made the big Chocolate miserable, never letting him rest due to constant nipping.

Yes, some dither fish may do more harm to the cichlids than vice versa!

 

[GlennO]

I've found that they ignore non-cichlids that are too big to eat. Except if breeding they'll chase them away from the breeding area. But I haven't kept cichlids bigger than about 6 inches.

 

[Mudminnow]

I currently have 3 keyhole cichlids and a school of 12 cardinal tetras in a 50 gallon. They've been together for a couple of years without issue.

 

[SparkyJones]

I had feeder goldfish for Acestrorhynchus microlepis and Exodon paradoxus. 1 of them was allowed to live they wouldn't eat him or even hit him every one before or after him was destroyed. He lived a couple years and grew big.

While I said all of them, and I did mean it, what I mean is the potential of your dither fish being eaten or beaten to death exists if you keep cichlids with them, it's not a certainly, but I'd be lying to you if I said it couldn't happen at all. Some species of cichlid aren't very aggressive or specifically aggressive given the right situation.

In my goldfish scenario is was all but a certainty they would be beaten and eaten because thats what those two species do, for some reason the one goldfish wasn't and did his normal thing for a few years with a Tank full of predators.

What I mean with cichlids are, if you do it, don't be surprised to find a dither dead, or missing. It's likely to happen at some point, if it doesn't great. But go into it knowing the potential exists for it to happen. Situationally there's countless reasons for them to not eat or kill tankmates even if that's their method of eating. If they are fed well with dead foods, if the dither isn't particularly triggering in its movements, if it's too hard to catch are just some of the reasons it can work. If they grew up together and have never seen each other as a food source or competition for resources would be another couple reason for it to work out.

Just saying it can happen with cichlids, they aren't 100% safe for tankmates under any or all circumstances like the community fish are.

 

[teach701]

Thanks for everyone who responded. I'm considering smaller Central Americans such as firemouths, ellioti, yellow convict, T bar, Honduran red point, or Nicaraguan. Not the big dudes like Jack Dempseys or Texas cichlids. Would larger tetras (or even live bearers to really stay Central American) work? Or are bigger fish like silver dollars a better choice? Let's say in a 75 or 90 gallon tank? And no, I wouldn't try to combine all of those cichlids I mentioned.

 

[A201]

Firemouths aren't very predatory. They do well in groups. Big Swordtails inhabit their native waters and are often kept together with Firemouths.

 

[teach701]

Firemouths aren't very predatory. They do well in groups. Big Swordtails inhabit their native waters and are often kept together with Firemouths.

Which of the ones I mentioned previously are predatory? I know convicts and salvinis are probably a no go.

 

[A201]

Salvini are awesome. I kept a mated pair with a group of black skirt Tetras.

Convicts are a nuisance fish. Too aggressive and too proficient at breeding

 

[Mudminnow]

Firemouths aren't very predatory. They do well in groups. Big Swordtails inhabit their native waters and are often kept together with Firemouths.

Firemouths and swordtails? That sounds like a cool tank....

 

[KadenSlone04]

I'm pretty sure keyhole cichlids (Cleithracara maronii) won't eat smaller fish other than newborn fry, but I haven't owned them so I can't talk from experience.

 

[Hellfishguy]

I’ve kept yellow convicts (Amatitlania nanolutea) with Colombian tetras without any problems. They’re called “convicts” but they’re actually pretty mellow.

 

[teach701]

Salvini are awesome. I kept a mated pair with a group of black skirt Tetras.

Convicts are a nuisance fish. Too aggressive and too proficient at breeding

I have zero interest in convicts for those reasons.

Firemouths and swordtails? That sounds like a cool tank....

I really would love to have a firemouth. I've recently had quite an interest in them. I even saw one in the wild in Mexico a few years ago. It was so neat to see.

I'm pretty sure keyhole cichlids (Cleithracara maronii) won't eat smaller fish other than newborn fry, but I haven't owned them so I can't talk from experience.

I've heard keyholes are pretty calm. Electric blue acaras are as well aren't they?

I’ve kept yellow convicts (Amatitlania nanolutea) with Colombian tetras without any problems. They’re called “convicts” but they’re actually pretty mellow.

I've been reading up on them a bit and they seem pretty mellow. Have you had other similar cichlids with tetras?

 

[TClare]

They’re called “convicts” but they’re actually pretty mellow.

And very attractive and can be kept in a group. Perhaps more suitable for a 75-90 gallon tank that firemouths, which can grow pretty large, though I do like the idea of firemouths and swordtails together. as well.

 

[GlennO]

I'm considering smaller Central Americans such as firemouths, ellioti, yellow convict, T bar, Honduran red point, or Nicaraguan. Not the big dudes like Jack Dempseys or Texas cichlids. Would larger tetras (or even live bearers to really stay Central American) work?

Yes. You wouldn't put fish like neons in with them but just about any large tetras, livebearers, large danio, barbs etc would be unlikely to attract their attention.

 

[teach701]

And very attractive and can be kept in a group. Perhaps more suitable for a 75-90 gallon tank that firemouths, which can grow pretty large, though I do like the idea of firemouths and swordtails together. as well.

Have you kept yellow convicts with other cichlids?

Yes. You wouldn't put fish like neons in with them but just about any large tetras, livebearers, large danio, barbs etc would be unlikely to attract their attention.

Agree 100%

Firemouths aren't very predatory. They do well in groups. Big Swordtails inhabit their native waters and are often kept together with Firemouths.

Have you kept other livebearers with firemouths and/or other cichlids with swordtails?

 

[TClare]

Have you kept yellow convicts with other cichlids?

I haven't actually kept them. In recent years where I live has very soft water so I keep South American species. In the past I have kept some Central American cichlids, but not Amatitlania nanolutea, but I have seen many articles about them. I think they would be best as a single species group but they are apparently not very aggressive so it may be possible to keep something like a single nicaraguensis with them.

If you keep a group they will breed of course...

 

[teach701]

I haven't actually kept them. In recent years where I live has very soft water so I keep South American species. In the past I have kept some Central American cichlids, but not Amatitlania nanolutea, but I have seen many articles about them. I think they would be best as a single species group but they are apparently not very aggressive so it may be possible to keep something like a single nicaraguensis with them.

If you keep a group they will breed of course...

According to Aqadvisor there are quite a few you can mix with them. I think a few single specimens plus silver dollars or bigger tetras would be a neat mix. Or livebearers to really keep it Central American. Have you kept your South Americans with non cichlids?

 

[TClare]

Have you kept your South Americans with non cichlids?

Yes, smaller cichlid species with various tetras and pencilfish, my large cichlids I have with marbled headstanders and some medium (about 2") large silver tetras. A while back I had them with diamond and bentosi tetras.No problems.

I wouldn't keep silver dollars in a tank only 4ft long, they get big and are quite skittish, with Central American species (the less aggressive species) I would go with livebearers, probably swordtails, or maybe Colombian tetras.

 

[teach701]

Yes, smaller cichlid species with various tetras and pencilfish, my large cichlids I have with marbled headstanders and some medium (about 2") large silver tetras. A while back I had them with diamond and bentosi tetras.No problems.

I wouldn't keep silver dollars in a tank only 4ft long, they get big and are quite skittish, with Central American species (the less aggressive species) I would go with livebearers, probably swordtails, or maybe Colombian tetras.

I wondered if silver dollars were too big for a tank that size.

 

[teach701]

Yes, smaller cichlid species with various tetras and pencilfish, my large cichlids I have with marbled headstanders and some medium (about 2") large silver tetras. A while back I had them with diamond and bentosi tetras.No problems.

I wouldn't keep silver dollars in a tank only 4ft long, they get big and are quite skittish, with Central American species (the less aggressive species) I would go with livebearers, probably swordtails, or maybe Colombian tetras.

Which smaller species did you keep?

 

[TClare]

Which smaller species did you keep?

Various Apistogrammas and Laetacara araguaiae. I had them also with otocincus and/or whiptail catfish as well as the tetras.

 

[teach701]

I had feeder goldfish for Acestrorhynchus microlepis and Exodon paradoxus. 1 of them was allowed to live they wouldn't eat him or even hit him every one before or after him was destroyed. He lived a couple years and grew big.

While I said all of them, and I did mean it, what I mean is the potential of your dither fish being eaten or beaten to death exists if you keep cichlids with them, it's not a certainly, but I'd be lying to you if I said it couldn't happen at all. Some species of cichlid aren't very aggressive or specifically aggressive given the right situation.

In my goldfish scenario is was all but a certainty they would be beaten and eaten because thats what those two species do, for some reason the one goldfish wasn't and did his normal thing for a few years with a Tank full of predators.

What I mean with cichlids are, if you do it, don't be surprised to find a dither dead, or missing. It's likely to happen at some point, if it doesn't great. But go into it knowing the potential exists for it to happen. Situationally there's countless reasons for them to not eat or kill tankmates even if that's their method of eating. If they are fed well with dead foods, if the dither isn't particularly triggering in its movements, if it's too hard to catch are just some of the reasons it can work. If they grew up together and have never seen each other as a food source or competition for resources would be another couple reason for it to work out.

Just saying it can happen with cichlids, they aren't 100% safe for tankmates under any or all circumstances like the community fish are.

This makes sense. I'd try to get less aggressive fish for sure.

Various Apistogrammas and Laetacara araguaiae. I had them also with otocincus and/or whiptail catfish as well as the tetras.

Sounds like a nice tank.

 

[teach701]

Which New World cichlid have you all had the best luck with when housing with livebearers?