20 Gallon Tank My Childrens 20G Color Frenzy

[Kareninpa]

My 5 and 3 year olds picked out everything for this tank.. they wanted pets and our current life situation as well as space doesn't allow for cats or dogs so we decided on fish. The fish we picked to start the tank were not my kids first choice but they were recommended by the store as hearty first fish which my kids reluctantly agreed to. They wanted Glo Tetras really bad...

Current stock:
2 Candy Cane Tetras
2 Xray Tetras (1Gold, 1 Regular)

 

[Flyfisha]

Hi Kareninpa
Welcome to the hobby.

Have you read of the nitrogen cycle?

 

[Kareninpa]

Hi Kareninpa
Welcome to the hobby.

Have you read of the nitrogen cycle?

I did.. we have been using Seachem Stability daily as directed for 7 days since we added in the fish (we're on day 5).

I have a liquid ammonia test kit but should probably get a complete kit as well.

This was our test yesterday (again we're 5 days in with the fish)

 

[Flyfisha]

Oh that’s good news.
You are building the colonies of bacteria with fish in the tank. I am glad you are aware of what you are doing with a fish in cycle.

I am not familiar with the strategy of using Seachem stability daily.

If you see any ammonia in the test you should change some water?

Yes you will need a test for nitrites as they are also toxic in small amounts.

 

[MacZ]

I have a liquid ammonia test kit but should probably get a complete kit as well.

Yes, invest in a full kit.

I give the fish a month, though, unless the stress factors are taken out.

No offense, because you surely didn't know better, the tank is about as fitting for the fish as a white, brightly lit room with non-stop death metal music for a human. At least the store employee talked you out of glofish.

Less bright lights (you should be able to dim them, so please do), more cover (floating plants, twigs and some driftwood are the least. Also more specimens of these fish, as they are gregarious. 2 of each species is all but appropriate.

Read up on them:
Hyphessobrycon bentosi – Ornate Tetra (Hyphessobrycon robertsi) — Seriously Fish
Pristella maxillaris – X-ray Tetra — Seriously Fish

 

[Lucy]

Hi welcome to FishLore!!
20 gallon long tanks are one of my favorites. Try adding a background to make the colors pop and fish stand out.
It will also shade the tank from direct sunlight from the window and help prevent algae.

It great to see kids getting into the hobby

 

[Kareninpa]

Yes, invest in a full kit.

I give the fish a month, though, unless the stress factors are taken out.

No offense, because you surely didn't know better, the tank is about as fitting for the fish as a white, brightly lit room with non-stop death metal music for a human. At least the store employee talked you out of glofish.

Less bright lights (you should be able to dim them, so please do), more cover (floating plants, twigs and some driftwood are the least. Also more specimens of these fish, as they are gregarious. 2 of each species is all but appropriate.

Read up on them:
Hyphessobrycon bentosi – Ornate Tetra (Hyphessobrycon robertsi) — Seriously Fish
Pristella maxillaris – X-ray Tetra — Seriously Fish

My daughter really wants the Glofish in the tank next.. we were trying to figure out what else to add as far as decor.. we want to eventually have a Pleco but someone suggested snails instead..

 

[MacZ]

My daughter really wants the Glofish in the tank next..

Just don't. Take the opportunity to explain to her that fish are not just a commodity but living beings and why the fish you already have need more of their kind.

we want to eventually have a Pleco but someone suggested snails instead..

The pleco will need messy extra feeding and a 20 gallon is rather too small for most species of plecos. Wait a while with the snails. The tank is new, there are no algae and aufwuchs to sustain them yet, if you get bigger snails they tend to starve. Same goes for Otocinclus (aka Otos), just to anticipate that.

 

[Kareninpa]

Just don't. Take the opportunity to explain to her that fish are not just a commodity but living beings and why the fish you already have need more of their kind.


The pleco will need messy extra feeding and a 20 gallon is rather too small for most species of plecos. Wait a while with the snails. The tank is new, there are no algae and aufwuchs to sustain them yet, if you get bigger snails they tend to starve. Same goes for Otocinclus (aka Otos), just to anticipate that.

Since my Daugher was insistant on the glo...The store suggested 1 more of each, and 2 Glo and 2 catfish to finish off the tank...

 

[MacZ]

Of course, they want to sell. And as that's the case they are not really a help and are going to cost you more money than necessary and likely several fish their lives, which you will have to replace. Win:win. For the store but neither for you or the fish.

 

[Leeman75]

What a fun tank...it brought a smile for sure! I have a 6 and 9 year old girls that would think that tank is about as good as it gets!!

It is true to since the fish you have are shoaling fish, they feel much safer in groups, so it's usually recommended to have at least 6 of each. Though I wouldn't add them until your cycle is complete.

Snails are really good alternatives to a bigger and messier Pleco. They are really fun to watch and my kids love them! But MacZ is right, I would wait until you have built up algae and biofilm they need to eat.

All in all, it's a fun time! Enjoy your new tank! There are lots of people here with a lot of information that love to help! Any questions...ask away!

 

[Kareninpa]

Of course, they want to sell. And as that's the case they are not really a help and are going to cost you more money than necessary and likely several fish their lives, which you will have to replace. Win:win. For the store but neither for you or the fish.

My daughter will be crushed on the glo if we don't get them as these fish were not her choice, but what would you suggest?

 

[MacZ]

but what would you suggest?

Honesty and an explanation.
I got in the hobby at the age of 8 and never had a problem with abstaining from fish, when my dad or the (actually knowledgeable store owner) explained to me why. The worst thing you can do is say no and not give an explanation. If she doesn't get that even in the easiest of words, sorry, it's probably time to learn that not every wish can come true. Probably one of the most precious life lessons in this day and age.

Glofish are man-made GMOs, have a shortened life span, generally bad health, are often kept in subpar conditions (not making that any better) and have to expect overall short, miserable lives.
In my opinion they are dead fish swimming on purchase. But stores do see them as a bestseller and especially: Expendable. Hence they are usually treated pretty badly.
This is really nothing anyone should teach their kids to support.

I mean... you could also use the tank and the fish to teach your kids the concept of mortality and death.

Sorry to use so harsh words, but if it's the feelings of a kid or the wellbeing of an animal, I choose the animal.

 

[Flyfisha]

You have jumped into the deep end of the swimming pool without knowing how to swim . At least this kind of explains your situation with fish in an uncycled tank. Your first fish as well.
You are likely to lose fish in the next few days or weeks. / dead fish. The danger is the toxic ammonia and nitrites the fish that you have are producing even now . Don’t get any more fish just yet.

It would seem the shop assistant is not giving you all the information?

A 20 can not house a pleco. Having two is out of the question.

You ask about glo fish but we don’t know if you mean danios , tetras, barbs or a Siamese fighting fish that can all be sold with colour.

Are you writing of the tetras on the top of the larger picture on this link .?
GloFish®. The most colorful pets for the most dazzling aquarium | Tetra® I ask just to find the body shape.

In time when the tank has a working nitrogen cycle perhaps a few golden honey gourami ? A species that has the yellow as a natural colour?
Or cherry barbs that come with a natural red?

 

[Kareninpa]

You have jumped into the deep end of the swimming pool without knowing how to swim . At least this kind of explains your situation with fish in an uncycled tank. Your first fish as well.
You are likely to lose fish in the next few days or weeks. / dead fish. The danger is the toxic ammonia and nitrites the fish that you have are producing even now . Don’t get any more fish just yet.

It would seem the shop assistant is not giving you all the information?

A 20 can not house a pleco. Having two is out of the question.

You ask about glo fish but we don’t know if you mean danios , tetras, barbs or a Siamese fighting fish that can all be sold with colour.
View attachment 853341
Are you writing of the tetras on the top left of this snapshot? I ask just to find the body shape.

In time when the tank has a working nitrogen cycle perhaps a few golden honey gourami ? A species that has the yellow as a natural colour?View attachment 853342
Or cherry barbs that come with a natural red?View attachment 853344

Yes, the glo Tetras..

My kids were offered the two species above and did not want either of those but I appreciate the suggestions.. please keep them coming.

I am here to learn so neither of you are being harsh.. I have no problem saying no to my children and we chose fish as a pet instead of dogs and cats so I plan to treat them as such, but just like any pet.. the owner chooses what to get and these were not really our choice so I want to make sure I'm taking care of what we do have but also choosing the best pet for what my family wants.

With that said I'm also in no rush to get more fish, I want to make sure that we have to right environment for what we have first...

 

[Flyfisha]

No worries Kareninpa.
A 20 gallon is actually a good size for a first tank and it’s big enough for a lot of species.

As MacZ mentioned glow fish are not good. They are very rare in Australia and not legal to sell in my state.

Fish use colour to communicate with one another. Being able to communicate to each other as to who is the boss and who is submissive or ready to breed etc etc.

I don’t have kids but can only imagine what it’s like shopping with them?

I really hope it’s possible to get the tank cycled without fish death.

If you have a shop near by I suggest adding some floating plants. This will offer a little security cover to the fish and potentially the plants can consume some ammonia?A handful of Frog bit or hornwort ?.

Have you been informed about water changes by the shop assistant? What have you planned?

 

[Fisch]

Welcome to fishlore. I love the 20gallon tank size as it is big enough to be parameter stabil and is easy to maintain.
That is a great colorful tank. What color glofish was on the wishlist?
With the advice given above, and close to be at your 7day with Stability, you will want to invest in the additional API liquid Nitrite and Nitrate test kits.
Your Ammonia is starting to creep up, and it is time to prepare for regular (daily) water changes to keep Ammonia/Nitrites minimal. Do you plan to use tap water? You most likely have Chlorine in that water, so you will need a dechlorinator. Seachem Prime is well known, and very cost efficient as it is highly concentrated.
What do you feed? Are the fish eating? They have names?
If you can get the fish through the next four weeks...and through the cycle, that will be great. Reach out with any questions.

 

[Kareninpa]

Welcome to fishlore. I love the 20gallon tank size as it is big enough to be parameter stabil and is easy to maintain.
That is a great colorful tank. What color glofish was on the wishlist?
With the advice given above, and close to be at your 7day with Stability, you will want to invest in the additional API liquid Nitrite and Nitrate test kits.
Your Ammonia is starting to creep up, and it is time to prepare for regular (daily) water changes to keep Ammonia/Nitrites minimal. Do you plan to use tap water? You most likely have Chlorine in that water, so you will need a dechlorinator. Seachem Prime is well known, and very cost efficient as it is highly concentrated.
What do you feed? Are the fish eating? They have names?
If you can get the fish through the next four weeks...and through the cycle, that will be great. Reach out with any questions.

We were told to use Seachem prime every time we do water changes. They told us to keep an eye on the ammonia and if it started to creep up to do every other day 20% water changes and then do 20 Drops of prime each water change.

I am not home currently but will take a picture of the food we were given, it's a tropical fish flake.

We were thinking of adding in some driftwood.. should we add in a live plant or two as well?

We were told to start feeding once a day which we have been but I'm not sure I'm feeding enough as the fish seem like they are famished when we feed.. so I'm wondering if A- I'm feeding enough in one feeding (they told us their stomachs are about as big as their eyes so we've been doing a pinch) and B- should we add a second feeding in.

As far as their names.. my Daughter chose "Minnie and Mickey" for the candy canes and my son chose "Donald and daisy" for the x-rays.

That's really sad to hear about the Glo Tetras.. when I was in college I worked at Vets offices and people would bring in the newest "crossbred" dog (example: golden doodle or bernie doodle) and then could not understand why they would spend thousands on vet bills for hip dysplasia or chronic skin infections... So I do understand that.

My daughter wanted the green, pink, and purple glo Tetra's but again.. We are in no rush to add more to the tank until I know the tank is safe and good.

 

[Flyfisha]

It’s good they are eating. But tetras generally eat straight away in a new tank anyway. Once a day is enough. A small pinch is correct.

The water should boil as the fish go mad for any food. They should look like they need more ( especially tetras) . Feeding 6 days a week is also a common practice. Not feeding for a week is hard on the human but will do the fish no harm .

I would suggest just one person be responsible for feeding and perhaps but the food out of sight on a top shelf so that even your husband can’t “ give them a treat” at midnight etc.

You were given correct instructions on water changes.
Also don’t go cleaning the glass or wiping any hard surfaces for the next month or so. Until the tank is cycled don’t rinse the filter unless the flow is blocked.

And most importantly don’t replace any parts of the filter.

 

[Fisch]

Yes, Tetras are like puppy dogs, they give you the feeling that you never give them enough. I for sure overfed at the beginning, and it cost some of the fish their life. Just keep the food containers out of reach, there are some horror stories about children dumping the container content into the tank.
It will be a lot of work for you, specifically at the beginning, but the memories will be invaluable.

 

[KingOscar]

Four small Tetra's are perfect for cycling a 20 long tank. Get the full test kit, monitor carefully and do the water changes as necessary, feed sparingly, and you will not lose any fish. It will take several weeks but once cycled you can begin to add more fish. I'd get more of the same as they prefer being in larger groups. Do get some more plants asap to add cover for the fish. Welcome to the group!

 

[ruud]

Always challenging to make your kids happy short-term versus trying to raise independent, critically thinking human beings with some moral standards.

Not judging - I'm in the same boat.

 

[Kareninpa]

Always challenging to make your kids happy short-term versus trying to raise independent, critically thinking human beings with some moral standards.

Not judging - I'm in the same boat.

Absolutely agree.. Not to go too far off topic but that is one thing we are really trying to instill in our kids.. personal responsibility and action/reaction/consequences. I want my kids to think for themselves and to understand that there is always a reaction whether good or bad to every action and that is something they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives.

 

[ruud]

Side-note: For any fish to pop-out, they'll need 1) a stress-free environment and 2) a less colorful background.

For educational sake, you could at some point divide your tank in two; take out the substrate of one side and place the plastic trees to the other side, so you'll have one side plastic and colourful - "kids corner".

The other half, add a dark substrate. Put something dark behind the tank. Few pieces of driftwood with some javafern attached to it - "biology class".

I'll bet your fish like to attend the latter .

 

[Kareninpa]

Side-note: For any fish to pop-out, they'll need 1) a stress-free environment and 2) a less colorful background.

For educational sake, you could at some point divide your tank in two; take out the substrate of one side and place the plastic trees to the other side, so you'll have one side plastic and colourful - "kids corner".

The other half, add a dark substrate. Put something dark behind the tank. Few pieces of driftwood with some javafern attached to it - "biology class".

I'll bet your fish like to attend the latter .

I love that idea! How do you even go about doing that with fish already in the tank?

 

[ruud]

Once your tank is "established" it becomes a little forgiving; so you'll have room to make some changes.

• Putting the plastic trees to one side should not be a problem.
• Stop running your filter and take out, let's say 1/3 of the water.
• Scoop out the substrate of this side with a net.
• Gently add the new substrate with e.g. a glass. Don't turn it upside down; just put the glass with substrate in and let the aquarium water fill your glass. Take it to the bottom and turn it upside down. You'll have to do this probably 20 times till the substrate has covered half of your tank. Half an inch to an inch should be fine. Dark sand would be best for most aquaria; yours included.
• Next, place your largest piece of wood in such a way that the flow from the hob filter will be broken/diffused, to avoid having the sand substrate all over your tank.
• Add new water to the tank, gently, not to disturb the substrate and turn back on your filter, with minimised flow, et voila.
• No need to ever clean this part of the substrate. You can clean the "kids corner" as you like, whereas, the "jungle corner" is allowed to become dirty (in biology terms, we call this "healthy"). Feel free to add some dry leaves on the jungle's substrate. Makes it look more jungle and benefits the fish in several ways.
• You can tie java ferns to the wood, or try to stick it in holes or between branches. Its roots are allowed to touch or enter the substrate; as long as the green part remains above the substrate.

Perhaps after a while, you can have the whole tank covered with the substrate, but still keep the fake trees and castle to one side. You can lure the fish in the area by feeding it once a day or every other day.

Good luck.

 

[Fisch]

That is a fantastic idea. You could net the 4 fish and put into bucket, re-scape and put the fish back in. As the tank is not cycled you will not really lose a lot.

 

[Kareninpa]

Got some decent pictures today.. the candy canes colors are really starting to develop. We will be going back to the store tonight to pick up some dark sand/gravel, a black or dark background and maybe some plants/driftwood.

I'm also going to pick up a complete test kit and bring water in for them to test as well.

Thank you all for your advice.

 

[Flyfisha]

Thanks for the update.
My suggestion is to avoid any of the painted gravel. It is known to leach ammonia and at the very least the paint falls off in a couple of years and you are left with white gravel mixed with some of the colour gravel.( personal experience)

Also most of the dirt substrates can’t be used with fish in the tank . These dirt ball type substrates deliberately leach ammonia and are used to cycle a tank long before fish are added.

 

[member143897]

Hi K. As you can see, there are a ton of people that are passionate and very knowledgeable about the hobby. I might just simplify some things in an easy bullet point for you here:

• stores do have incentives to sell you whatever they can
  • some shops are run by very serious hobbyists and passionate, smart people that will only give you the best advice (more reputable)
  • some are run by teenagers and a corporation behind them (less reputable)
• this hobby is difficult to nail down, especially if being driven by the impulsiveness of children
  • of course, pleasing your kids is important, but this hobby is a trade-off sort of thing (i.e. you cannot keep Serpae Tetras with Betta Fish, as they are extreme fin nippers and Betta are slower moving flowing fins (at least I would strongly advise against such a thing))
  • this means, trades have to be made internally to attain a steady and healthy tank, you cannot simply have it all, it will not work (despite what we've all been told to believe .... )
• your tank, currently, is too close to the window
  • this is going to promote a lot of unsightly growth and will make the conditions harder to control, temperature will spike more and the direct sunlight is a nightmare for tank in general
• you should consider some live plants and that might mean a less colorful and playful tank as you'll want some more suitable substrate, and plants are not usually neon yellow/pink/green/etc, but you can still make it very vibrant and colorful
  • this will help to balance water conditions and the nitrates that the fish are producing
• water changes are going to be you best friend as you're already keenly aware of it appears
• this tank will perhaps be the launch and learning experience, if you do lose some fish (then back track to understand why, learn the lessons and employ some of the better advice you've started to research on the hobby)
• always read extensively on the fish/plants and set up you're trying to make
  • some woods are not suitable for aquariums
  • some fish require very specific diets
  • there are a myriad of minute details that really do add up to make a full hobby, that requires a depth of research interest from the practitioner of said hobby
• CHEERS! Welcome to fish keeping, it's amazing!

 

[KingOscar]

Thanks for the update.
My suggestion is to avoid any of the painted gravel. It is known to leach ammonia...

Hi Flyfisha,

Do you have a source for this claim? I searched and couldn't find one. I believe all the coated gravels from the large, name brand makers are carefully designed for the specific task at hand, and well proven to be safe for fish. Maybe some cheap knock off stuff isn't, which is why I'd only recommend the well known companies (like Estes and some others) who have been coloring gravels successfully for decades. Literally millions of tanks have been run successfully with these gravels. I've done it and most here likely have too!

 

[Flyfisha]

KingOscar perhaps I should have said my experience was with the brand sold in Australia ? I believe “ Aqua one “ is an international brand ? I am not 100% sure this was an Aqua one product but it was sold in an a pet store for aquariums ( Petbarn ).
AQUA ONE DECORATIVE GRAVEL BLACK 2KG 7MM

This picture was taken 2 years before I finally removed the black gravel although it’s not as bad as how the gravel looked when I removed it you can see in this old picture of our lounge tank the white stone starting to appear in the black painted gravel.
So in answer to your question my only source is first hand experience . And I have only experienced the paint falling off which I thought was disappointing to say the least?

 

[Kareninpa]

Some updates.. went to the store and had the water tested.. I also tested the ammonia on my end. After speaking to the lady we got a black background to cut some of the light, we got a piece of driftwood which we have soaking in a bucket of water, a rose quartz rock, and these Cryptocoryne Wendtii as well. We are going to add some black gravel as well to darken up the tank too..

We have decided to keep the tank here until Septemberish and then we will move it to a stand in the corner of the room.

The PH and Nitrate/Nitrite levels were all good which is why we decided to add these and we are going to let the tank continue to cycle for another 3 weeks before adding any other fish or anything else.

We did get a test kit and we will be doing water changes throughout as well. Because the tank is here, we are seeing some evaporated water as well so we will take that into consideration when doing water changes to make sure we treat with Prime and Stability as needed.

 

[Fisch]

Keep up the good work, and keep us posted.

 

[KingOscar]

KingOscar perhaps I should have said my experience was with the brand sold in Australia ? I believe “ Aqua one “ is an international brand ? I am not 100% sure this was an Aqua one product but it was sold in an a pet store for aquariums ( Petbarn ).
AQUA ONE DECORATIVE GRAVEL BLACK 2KG 7MM

This picture was taken 2 years before I finally removed the black gravel although it’s not as bad as how the gravel looked when I removed it you can see in this old picture of our lounge tank the white stone starting to appear in the black painted gravel. View attachment 853508
So in answer to your question my only source is first hand experience . And I have only experienced the paint falling off which I thought was disappointing to say the least?

Thanks for your response, FF. The ammonia leaching from the gravel claim is what I questioned. I don't see any process in which that would be possible.

As for the chipping of coating off the edges of the gravel, yes, I've seen this over time with some aquarium gravels. But as far as I can tell, these coatings are benign even when this happens.

Surely with the tons of coated gravels sold and used for decades we'd have solid proof that the stuff was dangerous if it truly was.

 

[MacZ]

Surely with the tons of coated gravels sold and used for decades we'd have solid proof that the stuff was dangerous if it truly was.

Maybe not directly in a tank, but I give you one thing to keep in mind: Microplastic. That coated gravel has for sure done its part with every gravel-vac.

 

[ProudPapa]

We did get a test kit and we will be doing water changes throughout as well. Because the tank is here, we are seeing some evaporated water as well so we will take that into consideration when doing water changes to make sure we treat with Prime and Stability as needed.

I'm just now getting caught up, but welcome to the forum. Also, someone may have already mentioned this, but when the tank is fully cycled (when you're not seeing ammonia or nitrites for an extended period), you can skip the Stability. I know the label may say to continue with it, but they just want to keep selling it to you.

Assuming you're on a municipal or other water system you will always need to add Prime when you add water. If you're on a private well, like I am, you probably don't need that either.

 

[Kareninpa]

I'm just now getting caught up, but welcome to the forum. Also, someone may have already mentioned this, but when the tank is fully cycled (when you're not seeing ammonia or nitrites for an extended period), you can skip the Stability. I know the label may say to continue with it, but they just want to keep selling it to you.

Assuming you're on a municipal or other water system you will always need to add Prime when you add water. If you're on a private well, like I am, you probably don't need that either.

Yeah we have been adding prime every time we add more water because of the evaporation wet get from the tank being on our bay window. Were are budgeting things out but will be getting a stand and moving the tank in September before we see the temp drop as it can get pretty cold here up north in the winter.
Here's a question.. they told us to soak the driftwood in a bucket for a few days to get rid of the tanins (sp?). Since it is soaking should we add prime/ stability when we add the wood to the tank since its been soaking?

 

[Blacksheep1]

Welcome to the forum ! I commend you on your dedication to your new found hobby

If your kids are anything like mine they’ll be bored within a month and ask for a dolphin / alligator/ shark ( I was tempted for a quick minute ! ) and you’ll be left with a tank that will gradually evolve to be a beautiful example of an aquarium.

you’ve had fantastic advice here so I’ve nothing else to add other than enjoy !

 

[MacZ]

they told us to soak the driftwood in a bucket for a few days to get rid of the tanins (sp?).

Actually "tannins" (the correct term is "humic substances") are good for the fish, just "unsightly" to people that think water has to be colourless and crystal clear. I would add de-chlorinator while it's still soaking and only soak to get it waterlogged and sinking.

 

[ProudPapa]

Yeah we have been adding prime every time we add more water because of the evaporation wet get from the tank being on our bay window. Were are budgeting things out but will be getting a stand and moving the tank in September before we see the temp drop as it can get pretty cold here up north in the winter.
Here's a question.. they told us to soak the driftwood in a bucket for a few days to get rid of the tanins (sp?). Since it is soaking should we add prime/ stability when we add the wood to the tank since its been soaking?

I doubt it would absorb enough chlorine to be a problem, but if you're concerned you could just add Prime to the water it's soaking in. Like MacZ said, the "humic substances" are good for the fish, but it will turn the water brown. How much brown depends on the wood type, and how long it's already been soaking. It probably won't be much.

Some people, like me, add wood and/or leaves (fully dried, so no green remains) to tanks to take advantage of those other benefits. Shrimp especially like to graze on the biofilm that builds up on leaves.

 

[JTW]

Glofish are man-made GMOs, have a shortened life span, generally bad health, are often kept in subpar conditions (not making that any better) and have to expect overall short, miserable lives.
In my opinion they are dead fish swimming on purchase. But stores do see them as a bestseller and especially: Expendable. Hence they are usually treated pretty badly.
This is really nothing anyone should teach their kids to support.

I'm not sure your claims about their health are accurate.

They are genetically modified. But I've never seen any evidence that this modification has been detrimental to their health. Nor have I seen any evidence that they are more or less hardy than their non-gmo counterparts. Based on your fishkeeping philosophy I doubt that you have ever owned them, so I don't imagine that you have personal experience.

I think the OP should take your assessment of their general health with a grain of salt in this case.

But I agree that the needs of the existing stock should be taken into account, and that adding glofish to this existing setup is not the best choice.

 

[MacZ]

I'm not sure your claims about their health are accurate.

They use albinos as a "base-model". Albinos are well known to have health problems. Not much need to get extra evidence.

Based on your fishkeeping philosophy I doubt that you have ever owned them, so I don't imagine that you have personal experience.

Pretty much impossible. They are prohibited in Europe. I have enough first-hand-reports from people I can trust to know their way around fish (wholesalers, retailers, collectors), that are pretty clear about the health problems of these fish.

 

[JTW]

They use albinos as a "base-model". Albinos are well known to have health problems. Not much need to get extra evidence.

My understanding is that in the case of the glo tetra, they started with the white tetra which is an albino variant of black skirt tetra. To my knowledge, white tetras are generally hardy fish as long as they are kept in the proper temperature.... which is the case for essentially every fish in the hobby.

And the health problems associated with albinism in animals are typically limited to vision deficiencies, and cancers caused by UV exposure. Neither of which are very serious concerns in the context of aquarium fish.

Pretty much impossible. They are prohibited in Europe. I have enough first-hand-reports from people I can trust to know their way around fish (wholesalers, retailers, collectors), that are pretty clear about the health problems of these fish.

It may be trusted first-hand information to you. But from my perspective, that's little better than hearsay.

And it contradicts information contained in an environmental impact study done by the Canadian Fisheries and Oceans Department.

According to this study, the only deficiencies that have been observed are a "diminished tolerance to cold temperature", and "decreased competitive reproduction success". In addition, they don't differ in embryo or juvenile survival rates. And they showed no additional susceptibility to waterborne disease or other health impediments. Granted, some of the data used in this study was provided by GloFish LLC, which is the company that made the fish. However, there are many other sources cited.

In short, I tend to think that you have a significant bias when it comes to this particular group of fishes. You are welcome to your opinion, but there is plenty of information out there that suggest that your opinion is off the mark in this case.

A citation for the study:

DFO. 2018. Environmental and Indirect Human Health Risk Assessment of the Glofish® Electric Green® Tetra and the Glofish® Long-Fin Electric Green® Tetra (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi): A Transgenic Ornamental Fish. DFO Can. Sci. Advis. Sec. Sci. Advis. Rep. 2018/027.

 

[MacZ]

Allright, after re-reading on albinism, I have to concur on that part.

While this:

Granted, some of the data used in this study was provided by GloFish LLC, which is the company that made the fish.

Is, indeed a problem, that needs address, best by evaluating the exact information given by the company. I work in the university library, going to get the article tomorrow (it's after 10 pm here right now), and would suggest we move that topic to PM, if you are ok with that?

 

[TClare]

https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40712928.pdf

Link to the paper, I am going to read it properly, but it seems to be more concerned with environmental and human health effects rather than effects on the fishes’ health. I had a quick look earlier and was unable to find anything on adverse health in glo fish, but I did not find any studies that had specifically investigated this either.

 

[qldmick]

First off the thing about a fishes stomach being as large as their eye is a myth, any fisherman would know this.

Secondly why don't you show your kids some guppies and maybe platys, and if they like them once your cycle is complete you can trade your existing fish in and let your kids choose the male guppies/platys that they like, they should enjoy that.

 

[MacZ]

https://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/40712928.pdf

Link to the paper, I am going to read it properly, but it seems to be more concerned with environmental and human health effects rather than effects on the fishes’ health. I had a quick look earlier and was unable to find anything on adverse health in glo fish, but I did not find any studies that had specifically investigated this either.

Thanks. Gave it a read. There is only one paragraph of interest:

Though no formal studies have compared potential disease susceptibility of CGT2016 and wild-
type G. ternetzi, GloFish LLC provided veterinarian statements that state no evidence has been
noted for increased susceptibility to, or transmission of, water-borne pathogens, or additional
health impediments of CGT2016 or any other commercially available fluorescent line relative to
non-transgenic counterparts, and that CGT2016 require the same husbandry care as non-
transgenic counterparts.

So... neither formal nor independent studies. This is concerning, in respect to the credibility and reliability of the information, as it is only provided by the company and not independently confirmed or contested. The rest of the study is irrelevant to the question at hand and the phenomenon observed.

One could probably argue it is due to neglectant and/or otherwise inappropriate handling and care of the fish. That seems indeed to be the case frequently, as the type of fish seems to attract people with a tendency to neglect and obliviousness towards their animals. A counter argument could then be reports of the fish already being problematic at wholesalers and in negative evaluation of industry procurists.

So the debate stays open.

 

[JTW]

So the debate stays open.

I'm fine with leaving the debate as it stands. Independent information is hard to come by, and neither of us have direct experience with these fish. So it seems unlikely that the outcome would be worth the time spent debating.

I just didn't want to leave the statement unchallenged, and lead the OP to believe that it was broadly accepted as a hard fact. I have my concerns about GMO's, but a lot of things get said about them that simply aren't true. And those things are often immediately accepted as fact by people who already disagree with genetic modification based on principle.

 

[Motherlovebetta]

Secondly why don't you show your kids some guppies and maybe platys, and if they like them once your cycle is complete you can trade your existing fish in and let your kids choose the male guppies/platys that they like, they should enjoy that.

Welcome to fishlore! I agree with this post. I have a few tanks with lots of fish and my 5 year old just HAD to have these blue Mickey Mouse platys last time we were at the fish store. I begrudgingly got 2 males and they are awesome little fish to watch! My daughter and I both love them! Lots of different colors/patterns to choose from. I would continue slowly adding nice green love plants to that tank, maybe once it’s filled in your kids won’t notice if the neon ones slowly disappear that’s what happened to mine! My daughter is just as excited to pick out plants at the store now that I have taught her how good they are for the fish. I also agree with the tannins comments, at first I thought they were unsightly but after awhile I gave up fighting them and saw how happy they made my fish and I have embraced them! Best luck with your tank! Lots of good people on here for info they have helped me a lot!