Gold and Neon Tetras hiding out past few weeks, unsure why?

[GUPPYWASGUZZLED]

I have a 20 gallon/75 liter heavily planted tank. My 3 Gold, 3 Neon tetras have been hiding frequently in the corner of the tank under some spiderwood and plants. Sometimes they'll come out and swim around but most of the time they hide in this same spot. I noticed some white specs of ICH on them and other tankmates, so I'm now starting treatment with ICH-X. This is the second time I've noticed an ICH outbreak within the last 2 months. It always starts with the Tetras! As I write this, they're out swimming and seem like normal fish. Just raised the temperature to about 81 Fahrenheit and added the treatment.

I started using API Co2 Booster around the same time. I noticed the symptoms may be correlated so I stopped using it. Nothing on the label says it's dangerous to fish! I supplement with Aquarium Co-op: Easy Green twice a week.

TANKMATES: 3 kuhli loaches, 2 male guppies, 1 female betta, 2 plecos, and a couple cherry shrimp. I also have a mystery snail if that matters.

PARAMETERS:

TEMP: 27.2 C or 81 F
GH: ~140
KH: ~200
PH: EIGHT
NO2: ZERO
NO3: TEN

Any help is appreciated. I might be freaking out for nothing. Just let me know!

 

[Edsland]

3 neons is pretty lonely for a schooling fish. Usually groups of at least 6 but a dozen is better then they wont be so timid.

 

[GUPPYWASGUZZLED]

3 neons is pretty lonely for a schooling fish. Usually groups of at least 6 but a dozen is better then they wont be so timid.

I have 6 all together. 3 Golds and 3 Neons. They all like to swim together and (used to) swim with the guppies. Originally I had 12 tetras but half of them died of an unknown disease a few days after I put them in the tank.

 

[TClare]

They would definitely be more confident with more individuals, even 6 is not many, especially as they are two different species. I think that one issue with the recurring illness you are experiencing may be that your water parameters are not ideal for those species, they would do better in softer water with lower pH.

 

[GUPPYWASGUZZLED]

They would definitely be more confident with more individuals, even 6 is not many, especially as they are two different species. I think that one issue with the recurring illness you are experiencing may be that your water parameters are not ideal for those species, they would do better in softer water with lower pH.

I have a chemical pH lowerer and I've been adding Indian almond leaves. It's the best I can do for the pH. As for the softening of the water, do you have any recommendations? I can't do anything to our water supply (in an apartment building) so it'd have to be usable in the tank by itself. I saw there's a filter media I could add, but I'm not sure. Are there any powders or liquids I could use?

 

[TClare]

The best way would be to mix with RO water. Almond leaves won’t lower the pH especially if KH is high (though they will provide other benefits). I have very soft water, so have not tried this, but from what I have read it’s not a good idea to use chemicals to reduce pH, it’s difficult to keep it constant. The other thing would be to choose fish suited to your water type, the guppies are fine for example, as well as other livebearers.

 

[SparkyJones]

Do you get rain where you are?
Rainwater is perfect in your case, it will lower KH and the pH and GH. It's just slightly acidic.

If you get a decent amount of rain put out a clean bucket and collect some rain water that falls from the sky, not runoff from a roof or water from puddles which might have contaminants like chemicals from the roof or pesticides from the ground, but yeah, if you got rain, water change with that and over time the water will transition over to the ideal parameter range for neons. Your other fish shouldn't mind it either.

Ideally you'd use a bucket to collect the rain, or another method to catch it as it falls and then another bucket with a lid or a larger sealable container to store it for top offs between rains.

Now if you don't get rains and it's too dry for long stretches, a RODI filter would probably be the next option but more cost.

I'd agree the pH is an issue and if the pH is that high the KH is high also, and if the KH is high, the GH is probably high also.
All in all, the neons are gonna be stressed constantly and it's going to open them up to diseases/infections that take them down, The weakest dying from stress at first most likely. The stronger to follow when they get worn down from the stress.

 

[GUPPYWASGUZZLED]

Do you get rain where you are?
Rainwater is perfect in your case, it will lower KH and the pH and GH. It's just slightly acidic.

If you get a decent amount of rain put out a clean bucket and collect some rain water that falls from the sky, not runoff from a roof or water from puddles which might have contaminants like chemicals from the roof or pesticides from the ground, but yeah, if you got rain, water change with that and over time the water will transition over to the ideal parameter range for neons. Your other fish shouldn't mind it either.

Ideally you'd use a bucket to collect the rain, or another method to catch it as it falls and then another bucket with a lid or a larger sealable container to store it for top offs between rains.

Now if you don't get rains and it's too dry for long stretches, a RODI filter would probably be the next option but more cost.

I'd agree the pH is an issue and if the pH is that high the KH is high also, and if the KH is high, the GH is probably high also.
All in all, the neons are gonna be stressed constantly and it's going to open them up to diseases/infections that take them down, The weakest dying from stress at first most likely. The stronger to follow when they get worn down from the stress.

I do get rain, but it's been mostly snow and I have no idea how I'd collect it. I'm on the top floor and I'm afraid if I leave a bucket outside, someone will A. steal it. (someone's stolen a folding chair out of my trunk!) or B. throw trash, cigarette butts, etc. into the water. There appears to be a Culligan water treatment building near my town so I'll head over there and see what they can offer.

As for RODI filters, do you have any cheaper options I can use? I'll have to ask my landlord if I can install one first, though.

If all above fails and I have no other options, what should I do? Remove the neons and send them back to the store? (the man I bought them from is a local fish guy and would happily refund them) Euthanize them? Let them continue to live in my tank until their deaths? They could die next week or next year. So far, the ones that survived are still alive.

On a completely different topic, I want to begin breeding bettas for this previously mentioned fish guy. With the water I have, would this be safe for the fry to develop in? I'm all up to date with the necessary items to breed them with, 40 gallon tank to house fry until they must be separated, Indian almond leaves, blood worms/frozen meaty foods, vinegar eels, water lettuce and Christmas moss, sponge filter, heaters, and buckets. I will make a separate post about this later. All I am wondering is: if my current water is safe for betta fry/breeding?

 

[SparkyJones]

I do get rain, but it's been mostly snow and I have no idea how I'd collect it. I'm on the top floor and I'm afraid if I leave a bucket outside, someone will A. steal it. (someone's stolen a folding chair out of my trunk!) or B. throw trash, cigarette butts, etc. into the water. There appears to be a Culligan water treatment building near my town so I'll head over there and see what they can offer.

As for RODI filters, do you have any cheaper options I can use? I'll have to ask my landlord if I can install one first, though.

If all above fails and I have no other options, what should I do? Remove the neons and send them back to the store? (the man I bought them from is a local fish guy and would happily refund them) Euthanize them? Let them continue to live in my tank until their deaths? They could die next week or next year. So far, the ones that survived are still alive.

On a completely different topic, I want to begin breeding bettas for this previously mentioned fish guy. With the water I have, would this be safe for the fry to develop in? I'm all up to date with the necessary items to breed them with, 40 gallon tank to house fry until they must be separated, Indian almond leaves, blood worms/frozen meaty foods, vinegar eels, water lettuce and Christmas moss, sponge filter, heaters, and buckets. I will make a separate post about this later. All I am wondering is: if my current water is safe for betta fry/breeding?

the place you got them from probably won't take them back if they are sick. keep and treat them, but I think you should test your water, then discuss with your fish guy, and see what his water is and what he's doing or if he has high pH water also, of it's just a condition affecting you, you can also check your local fish shops if there are any and see what their water is like to get a feeling if it's a "you thing" or it's an "everybody thing".

I'm not sure about betta fish, I don't keep them, but breeding fish isn't easy unless it's the common livebearers, generally speaking the easier it is to breed and reach market size, the cheaper it is at the fish stores, and the harder they are, the more money it sells for as a rule of thumb. lots of variables for every species that takes a lot of knowledge to be successful at just that one species.
Anyone can get lucky by random chance though.

I'd say it's safe for keeping betta fish, I'm not sure how successful breeding would be but there are betta breeders on here. you can post a new thread asking that specifically and I'm sure someone will chime in that has experience with it. .

 

[GouramiGirl100]

So I would not worry about your pH for the tetras, imo it’s not related to the current problem. I agree with asking LFS what their pH is.
Your fish shouldn’t keep getting ich breakouts. I notice you aren’t testing for ammonia, you should do this. Not sure about your weekly water change schedule but imo you should be doing weekly water changes of 20%. When I treat for ich I do water changes more often. I’ll dose tank with IchX for a day and the next day water change and do another dose etc- make sure to remove carbon filter if you have one.
Now for betta breeding your pH is an issue, bettas breed best (I haven’t done this myself just from research and general fish breeding knowledge) in slightly acidic waters so you should consult with LFS on how to lower your pH.