Back to zero. Stocking my 20 gallon high.

[OuiBonjour]

I had a stocking in mind for my 20 tall : Khuli Loaches, Dwarf Gourami, Black Skirt Tetras.

Now I'm not sure anymore. First thing I would replace Dwarf Gourami with Honey Gourmami.

Here are some other fishes that I really like :

- German Blue Ram
- Cockatoo Dwarf Cicclid
- Celestial Pearl Danios (I know they're good mates for Honey Gouramis)
- Dario Dario
- Clown Killifish
- or Gardner Kili
- I still like the Black Tetras
- Khulies

Criteria : The Honey Gourami have to stay. Black Tetras should stay (unless other "big" and colored schooling fish)

Problem : I'd love to have more than one small schooling species, but my girlfriend prefer "big" fishes like Black Tras (glofish version, yellow). Since it's her only request, I would say that the Tetras should stay (unless we find another big one that can be in good number around 6)

So HG has to stay (solo or pair ? I dunno), German Blue Ram is one of my fav, girlfriend loves the Tetras, but I love small schools and love all kind of killies. PH is at 7 based on Fluval Test Kit, or 7.6 based on API test kit.
0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 0-to-0.000001 Nitrates (just not to says 0, but yeah, pretty much 0). Deep undisturbed substrate.

I could heat my tank to the most common temperature in the bunch, water quality is A1 on all levels, WC every week 40%, heavily planted

What could you guys suggest us ?

 

[ProudPapa]

1. I'd skip the German blue rams. They need warmer temperature than the rest of the fish you listed, and I think lower pH, though I'm less certain about that.
2. Replacing the dwarf gourami with honey gouramis is a good plan. I haven't kept honey gouramis, but everything I've seen about them says they're very peaceful and social, so I wouldn't do less than 3, and 5 might be better.
3. If you're not completely sold on the black skirt tetras then serpae tetras might be worth looking at. They're similar size (maybe a little smaller), and are very colorful. If you do get them I'd suggest at least 8. They're sometimes sold as red minor tetras.

 

[OuiBonjour]

Thanks for your input ! I think I scratch du Blue Ram !

As for the black skirt, reason we wanted those is because of the Glofish Tetra that are of this specie and we were sold on the bright yellow color.

 

[AmigoSpageeto]

I would say that whatever you get more is better. I like the 3-5 honey gouramis like JettsPapa said. Either black skirt tetras or serpae tetras, but get a nice sized school of them. The tank will look much better and the fish will act more natural if you have just 2 types of fish in big numbers than many different types of fish in smaller numbers.

You could also get some cory catfish for the bottom and they will help keep the tank clean too. Again, try to get a nice sized school of them.

 

[OuiBonjour]

Second plan was like 3 Gourami (a male a 2 female) 6-8 Tetras, and 6 Khuli Loaches.

I was wondering however if I could replace the 6-8 tetras for like 6-8 CPD (smaller bioload) + a pair of ram or a pair of cockatoo cicchlid, or a pair of killies

 

[AmigoSpageeto]

Second plan was like 3 Gourami (a male a 2 female) 6-8 Tetras, and 6 Khuli Loaches.

I was wondering however if I could replace the 6-8 tetras for like 6-8 CPD (smaller bioload) + a pair of ram or a pair of cockatoo cicchlid, or a pair of killies

The CPDs are a cool fish and would add a lot of movement to the tank. I don't have much experience with dwarf cichlids except for people tend to put them in species only tanks with some tetras for the top of tank (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Like the idea of 3 gourami, 6-8 tetra/CPD, and 6 khuli loaches

 

[CTYankee79]

Second plan was like 3 Gourami (a male a 2 female) 6-8 Tetras, and 6 Khuli Loaches.

I was wondering however if I could replace the 6-8 tetras for like 6-8 CPD (smaller bioload) + a pair of ram or a pair of cockatoo cicchlid, or a pair of killies

It’s possible the CPDs could nip at your Gouramis. And there’s a small chance the rams could try to eat the CPDs. I don’t speak from experience but I was looking at similar stocking for my 40 gallon and this is what was suggested to me.

 

[FinalFins]

Second plan was like 3 Gourami (a male a 2 female) 6-8 Tetras, and 6 Khuli Loaches.

I was wondering however if I could replace the 6-8 tetras for like 6-8 CPD (smaller bioload) + a pair of ram or a pair of cockatoo cicchlid, or a pair of killies

CPDs really like the cooler temps that apistos or GBR would like..

 

[Nataku]

Second plan was like 3 Gourami (a male a 2 female) 6-8 Tetras, and 6 Khuli Loaches.

I was wondering however if I could replace the 6-8 tetras for like 6-8 CPD (smaller bioload) + a pair of ram or a pair of cockatoo cicchlid, or a pair of killies

Do not put gardneri's killifish in with CPDs. These are voracious fish and they will try (and most likely succeed) in eating your CPD. Or probably choke on them and die trying to eat them. Gardneri killies always think they're starving.

Being as this is a 20 Tall and not a 20 Long, your stock is already pretty much set and full. You don't have room to add any more fish once you have
2-4 honey gourami
6 black/white skirt tetras of the glofish variety
And 6-8 kuhli loaches (smallest bioload of your proposed stocking)
That will be plenty of fish in a 20 tall, with plenty of activity. You don't need to try to cramp anything else in there.

 

[OuiBonjour]

It’s possible the CPDs could nip at your Gouramis. And there’s a small chance the rams could try to eat the CPDs.

CPDs really like the cooler temps that apistos or GBR would like..

Do not put gardner's killifish in with CPDs. These are voracious fish and they will try (and most likely succeed) in eating your CPD. Or probably choke on them and die trying to eat them. Gardneri killies always think they're starving.

Okay, so no CPDs (don't want anyone messing with the peaceful Honey Gourami. I love them already.)

Definitely no Gardner's Kilifish,

Being as this is a 20 Tall and not a 20 Long, your stock is already pretty much set and full. You don't have room to add any more fish once you have
2-4 honey gourami
6 black/white skirt tetras of the goldfish variety
And 6-8 kuhli loaches (smallest bioload of your proposed stocking)
That will be plenty of fish in a 20 tall, with plenty of activity. You don't need to try to cramp anything else in there.

I understand, I thought it would be the case but I always want to try my luck.

How should I choose my Honey Gouramis : 2 males and 2 females or a male and 3 females ?

Also, nobody said anything about the Cockatoo Dwarf. Would reducing the HGs to one pair leave some space for one of them ? Or for a Ram (with no smaller fish to eat like the CPD) ?

 

[jinjerJOSH22]

Okay, so no CPDs (don't want anyone messing with the peaceful Honey Gourami. I love them already.)

Definitely no Gardner's Kilifish,

Being as this is a 20 Tall and not a 20 Long, your stock is already pretty much set and full. You don't have room to add any more fish once you have
2-4 honey gourami
6 black/white skirt tetras of the goldfish variety
And 6-8 kuhli loaches (smallest bioload of your proposed stocking)
That will be plenty of fish in a 20 tall, with plenty of activity. You don't need to try to cramp anything else in there.

Hi, It's not overly important about the gender ratio with Honey Gourami but keeping more females is usually best. Keeing multiple males has a plus, one should take the role as the dominant fish and colour up beautifully.
I wouldn't worry about CPDs nipping the Gourami, while it can happen(that goes for just about every fish) I haven't experienced it keeping them with both Honey and Sparkling Gourami.
If i'm honest I'd be more worried about the Skirt Tetra. Not only are they quite nippy but they're similar sized to the Honeys.

Can't answer about the Dwarf Cichlids sorry.

 

[Nataku]

I wouldn't personally put a. Caucatoides with kuhlis because I had one in the past who took a liking to pecking at the kuhlis until he killed them and tried to eat them. I'm not sure if he just didn't like any other bottom dwelling fish or if he thought they were food (even though he was kept very well fed in that tank) or if he got too territorial with them even though the tank was planted and he had a little cave he'd staked out as his own. Maybe it was just my particular apisto that did that with kuhlis, but I'm not willing to try it again to find out if it was an individual fish or a thing with apistos.

If you wanted an apisto in a 20 tall the only bottom dweller I'd put with them are corydoras . They're tougher than kuhlis. But honestly in a 20 tall, my personal choice would be an apisto pair OR the group of kuhlis. Not both. The tank hasnt got enough space for both of these bottom dwelling fish.

German blue rams do not have a temp over lap with honey gourami (nor skirt tetras either really, they would both be at the opposite ends of their respective temp ranges, which is not ideal). So I would not reccomend them in this tank due to incompatible stocking.
You could do a single Bolivian ram, but they do better in pairs and I'm not sure your tank has room for that either.

On 4 honey gourami - I personally would go 2 male, 2 female, or all 4 male. I find honey gourami in an all male group tend to play well with each other when they dont have a female around to strut around for.

 

[OuiBonjour]

I didn't even know Cockatoos were bottom dweller too, thanks!

So no rams neither because of the temps on the german blue and the space on the bolivian.

Alright, so I'll stay with 4 Gourami (I like the 4 males idea) and 6 Black Skirt Tetras.

As for the janitorial crew,

Since both are bottom dweller, do you think one would be better than the other between Khulis and Cockatoos ?

I've researche Khulis a little bit and know they should be okay with Gouramis and Black Skirts, but I'm not sure if the Apistos would. If they do, maybe I'd prefer them since I read that Khulis are realy shy and could be "not seen" for months in a tank.

Also, if I take an apisto pair instead of the Khulis (if they'd work), would that leave me more room to get more than 6 Tetras or more than 4 gouramis since I'd have a pair instead of 6-8 Khulis ?

I imagine that 8 khulis would do a bigger janitor job than a pair of apistos, but I dont have that substrate space at the bottom (most of it is is covered - rocks, stones and very a lot of dense plants), so maybe less would be better.

And again, if the Apistos pair would work, would it be better to go with a male or a female ?

 

[FinalFins]

Pair = 1male/1female

I personally would go with kuhlis.

 

[Nataku]

Yes apistos will spend most of the time near the bottom of the tank. Although they will occasionally venture higher.
Apistos are not janitors though.
Honestly, no fish is, but kuhli will pick up any food that makes it to the bottom better than an apisto. Still, don't expect a fish to clean up the tank, that's your job as the caretaker of the tank.

Bioload wise - 6 kuhlis is less bioload than a pair of apistos. Shoot, I'd be willing to bet good money just ONE adult male cockatoo apisto is more bioload than 6 kuhlis.
So definately do not try to fit more stock into the tank if you go with the apistos over the kuhlis.

Yes, kuhlis can be very shy. Your kuhlis will be seen more if you provide them with more hiding spaces. It seems backwards, but they feel more confident when they have more places to dart off to nearby.

 

[OuiBonjour]

Thanks for the clarification I know that most of the cleaning is on me and I'm ready for that. I just like to call bottom feeders my little cleaning crew ! Even though I think the Apistos would look more active, I think I'll go with the Khulis, as they eat more uneaten food and have a smaller bioload.

I have a lot of different hiding spaces, and even different types of hideout. I think they'll be okay, especially as they'll be the firsts in the tank and I plan on keeping them alone for 2 weeks if I can control myself. They'll have plenty of time to know all corners and hiding spots.

Hope they wont get a shock when I'll introduce the Black Skirts afterwards though

Maybe I should add the Gouramis before the tetras, since they're more peaceful ? I've been told to always add the Gouramis last, but maybe in this case it would help the transition for the loaches ?

 

[jinjerJOSH22]

Thanks for the clarification I know that most of the cleaning is on me and I'm ready for that. I just like to call bottom feeders my little cleaning crew ! Even though I think the Apistos would look more active, I think I'll go with the Khulis, as they eat more uneaten food and have a smaller bioload.

I have a lot of different hiding spaces, and even different types of hideout. I think they'll be okay, especially as they'll be the firsts in the tank and I plan on keeping them alone for 2 weeks if I can control myself. They'll have plenty of time to know all corners and hiding spots.

Hope they wont get a shock when I'll introduce the Black Skirts afterwards though

Maybe I should add the Gouramis before the tetras, since they're more peaceful ? I've been told to always add the Gouramis last, but maybe in this case it would help the transition for the loaches ?

I'd add the Honeys first, they won't give anyone any trouble.