Any experienced large Puffer owners? I have questions!

[LadfromLondon]

Is there anyone available for a discussion on some of the larger freshwater Puffer's? Fahaka's in particular but Mbu too. I had some thoughts I wanted to get second opinions on if there is anyone around!

TIA

 

[ChrissFishes01]

What kind of questions do you have?

I think there might be a couple fahaka owners on here, but no mbu owners as far as I know. I ended up keeping a fahaka for a year or so until I gave him away to a bigger home, but I've never kept one long-term. He was given to me in the first place, or I never would have gotten him!

That said, I've kept just about every other puffer species available that stays under 8" (the common and semi-common ones, at least) - I may be able to help!

 

[wishuponafish]

Zach72202 might be able to help too.

 

[Zach72202]

Yes, I have many puffers, what questions do you have?

For true freshwater, I have the following species:
Mbu Puffer
Fahaka Puffer
Schoutedeni Puffers
Pea Puffers

I am from the states, so I will put measurements in terms of imperial system

Also, when talking about monster puffers- if you are worried about the price of the fish being a problem, get a smaller species- will save you much heartache. The price of the fish is the cheapest part of monster puffers.

As for the bigger ones, they are great pets- but you need the dedication money wise. Fahakas grow fast. I mean like 12 inches in a year fast. They are quite docile creatures. Everybody makes them out to be big and mean, but they are very timid. Very often I walk into the room and just opening the door really scares my fahaka bad. He bounces off the walls and the lid, even when all the lights are off, just from me opening the door. This isn't every time, it has only happened a time or two. Often he is sleeping under the Amazon Swords. Very happy creature. Biggest thing is that they cannot have tankmates. Very high chances of them eating them. In terms of personality- it is individualistic as with all puffers, but it is common for them to be very lazy. Get your attention a lot for you to feed, then they go sit behind the plants and digest it only to repeat the next day. As for tank size- I would say minimum a 5 foot (60 inch) long tank, by 24 inch deep tank footprint is pretty much ideal minimum for your puffy boy. You can have great success in a standard 125g tank (72x18x21), but a standard 180g tank (72x24x24) is another perfect option. You can do it in a standard 75g tank for a while, but honestly it is better to just get their final tank before you get the fish. This is because there is little purpose to getting a baby 2 inch fahaka that will need a huge tank a year and a half down the line, then you have to move everything around and it isn't worth it to play musical chairs with large tanks. Better to place them and let them live in the extra space. Gives plenty of time for them to get accustomed to their tank and surroundings.

Mbu's grow fast too, but not as fast, but within 2-3 years you will have a 20 inch puffer on your hands that eats the food bill of a small child. They are much friendlier with tankmates, but may run into some issues. For example- mine thinks all algae eaters are food. Pleco's? Oto's? Chomp. Everything else is fine. Curious feller that is all. He poops a lot- making a large mess. He eats a lot too. Very friendly, always at the front of the glass. Mine is afraid of angelfish though. He was tortured for weeks by these little quarter sized angelfish, one would back him into a corner and peck at his belly and he would just take it, rolling on his side in fear. Gentle giant. For reference, I will be getting a new place to live and using the garage for my fish room. My work makes acrylic tanks and I will be getting him a 8ft long x 4ft wide x 2ft tall 480g tank (96x48x24), and that is honestly too small in my opinion- bare minimum. My dream is to have a 20ft long tank thats 6ft deep and 3 ft tall for a slice of a river to have my puffer and a bunch of fish just roaming.


Moral of the story, you can be a normal person and own a fahaka puffer perfectly, but a Mbu takes a person with the right lifestyle to own them.

Both are very easy to take care of, just have rather pricey needs.

If you are looking into puffers that easy to plug into your life, I would suggest schoutedeni, as they are great with other fish, but can be very aggressive toward sedentary fish. They almost eradicated my pygmy cory population, but they do great with my Angelfish and guppies.

If you want a solo specimen that is larger but not a solely ambush predator, go for a Duboisi Puffer. Very rare and expensive though. Get about a foot long.

If you like sedentary fish, I would look at a Red Miurius Puffer. I like to call them the underwater corndog. They will eat silversides, cockroaches, crickets, and frozen foods easily. They bury themselves, and can stay in a small tank- like a 20g Long or a standard 40 Breeder.

If you have any more questions, I would be happy to answer

 

[LadfromLondon]

Yes, I have many puffers, what questions do you have?

For true freshwater, I have the following species:
Mbu Puffer
Fahaka Puffer
Schoutedeni Puffers
Pea Puffers

I am from the states, so I will put measurements in terms of imperial system

Also, when talking about monster puffers- if you are worried about the price of the fish being a problem, get a smaller species- will save you much heartache. The price of the fish is the cheapest part of monster puffers.


If you have any more questions, I would be happy to answer

Wow, this is a lot of knowledge and hard work on your end, thank you. Pricing over here surprisingly isn't too bad, I've seen a store selling Fahaka's between £11-£33. Not too sure why there is a difference from the same seller, but I'll find that out in due course.

I've been planning for a Fahaka for some time now, not too long but long enough to collect some solid findings about them. It's interesting you say they are timid, I didn't think they would be. I've heard the horror stories but I've also seen videos of them. For the most part, they seem pretty chill, but they definitely have the mean bone in their body if they want to do anything.

I guess this leads me to my first question, how are they during routine maintenance/wc's? Do they grow accustom to you having your hands in the tank and trimming plants etc? My biggest fear isn't so much getting a knuckle bitten off, it's moreso trying to clean the tank tank up of an aggressive fish if that makes sense? Almost like going into a lion's cage to clean up his territory.

I've also heard conflicting things about Fahaka's in planted tanks. Is this something which is unique to each Fahaka, some will and some won't tolerate planted tanks? From what I had read, I had so far been planning to not plant his tank up and instead, grow a pathos plant in the sump to help with water parameters etc.

In terms of tank mates, again I've read both sides of the story. In my case, I'll be putting Tiger Barbs into the tank months before I think of getting my Puffer. Just to season the tank up and get it mature, then I'd buy my Fahaka at an inch or so. Then it's up to him, if he tolerates them then great! If not, I'll move the Barbs out and likely rehome them. Tank size I'm at roughly 150G all in, so should be good there. Worst case, I've a 5ft cabinet opposite his tank I've built for another tank, I could upgrade him into a longer tank over there and move those fish across into his setup.

One day I hope to get keep a Mbu, but I feel that's a long, long way away for now. The acrylic tank you're having built sounds awesome. It very much reminds me of corys 8x4x3 acrylic tank for his Mbu.

Have you had success with any dried foods with your Fahaka? Here, I mean commercial foods such as Vibra Bites etc, but also foods like dried mealworms, crickets etc. I have a pretty comprehensive feeding schedule planned out for him, I'm just wondering if I can add any dried foods to his diet. If not, I'll be gut loading the snails I feed him with goodies anyway.

What are your thoughts on temperature? I was hoping to imitate seasonal temperatures for him. Not necessarily because he needs it, more to increase lifespan and just keep me more in tune with my setups.

My schedule for him would be:
Nov-Feb 24C
March-May 26C
June-Sept 28C
October 26C

Thoughts? I was planning to feed him accordingly as well. More frequent feedings as the temperature goes up. The sump will be plugged into an Inkbird temperature controller with 2x heaters, so it should be plenty stable.

I read a little regarding water in the Nile, it seems to be quite alkaline. That works well for me, seeing my water is very hard.
7.4 pH
11KH
16GH
Can you provide an insight into water flow for Fahaka's? I was hoping to run my 3000L/H wavemaker in the tank continuously. If it's too much flow, I'd set it on a timer to run at certain times.

In terms of feeding, my best bet for clams/mussels etc is to buy live and fresh. I was thinking to freeze them as soon as they come into my care, providing they are closed. Do you know how long these kinds of foods can be kept frozen as a source of fish food? I'll soak almost everything I feed my Fahaka in Seachem Garlic Guard and Vitality.

I think's that all the questions I had to ask, sorry it's so long. I really appreciate you guys taking time out to read and contribute to this thread. Thank you very much!

What kind of questions do you have?

I think there might be a couple fahaka owners on here, but no mbu owners as far as I know. I ended up keeping a fahaka for a year or so until I gave him away to a bigger home, but I've never kept one long-term. He was given to me in the first place, or I never would have gotten him!

That said, I've kept just about every other puffer species available that stays under 8" (the common and semi-common ones, at least) - I may be able to help!

 

[Zach72202]

Wow, this is a lot of knowledge and hard work on your end, thank you. Pricing over here surprisingly isn't too bad, I've seen a store selling Fahaka's between £11-£33. Not too sure why there is a difference from the same seller, but I'll find that out in due course.

I've been planning for a Fahaka for some time now, not too long but long enough to collect some solid findings about them. It's interesting you say they are timid, I didn't think they would be. I've heard the horror stories but I've also seen videos of them. For the most part, they seem pretty chill, but they definitely have the mean bone in their body if they want to do anything.

I guess this leads me to my first question, how are they during routine maintenance/wc's? Do they grow accustom to you having your hands in the tank and trimming plants etc? My biggest fear isn't so much getting a knuckle bitten off, it's moreso trying to clean the tank tank up of an aggressive fish if that makes sense? Almost like going into a lion's cage to clean up his territory.

I've also heard conflicting things about Fahaka's in planted tanks. Is this something which is unique to each Fahaka, some will and some won't tolerate planted tanks? From what I had read, I had so far been planning to not plant his tank up and instead, grow a pathos plant in the sump to help with water parameters etc.

In terms of tank mates, again I've read both sides of the story. In my case, I'll be putting Tiger Barbs into the tank months before I think of getting my Puffer. Just to season the tank up and get it mature, then I'd buy my Fahaka at an inch or so. Then it's up to him, if he tolerates them then great! If not, I'll move the Barbs out and likely rehome them. Tank size I'm at roughly 150G all in, so should be good there. Worst case, I've a 5ft cabinet opposite his tank I've built for another tank, I could upgrade him into a longer tank over there and move those fish across into his setup.

One day I hope to get keep a Mbu, but I feel that's a long, long way away for now. The acrylic tank you're having built sounds awesome. It very much reminds me of 8x4x3 acrylic tank for his Mbu.

Thank you very much!

1) During Waterchanges
Aggressive? No- I wouldn't worry about that, but you never know because each fish has its own personality. I would say mine are comparative to dogs/cats when you go vacuum the house. They go sit in the corner and hide until you are done. That being said, my Mbu puffer did bite my finger during a waterchange as I was not expecting it. Luckily he didn't get a good chomp as I was holding a python and his teeth grazed off my index finger. If he had gotten me any better I probably would have gone to the emergency room to reattach parts.

2) Puffers with plants
This is going to become very repetitive, but puffers are curious little creatures. This means that they may shred plant leaves/stems. My fahaka has taken a few chunks out of my Madagascar Lace Bulb (the actual bulb) when it was free floating in the tank. My Mbu did the same thing to an Aponogeton Boivinianus, but neither have really touched other plants too much. The occasional one when they are hungry, but nothing major. What ones are absolute terrors are my Schoutedeni puffers. Oh a stem? Chomp. Oh a leaf? Chomp. Oh a lace bulb starting to bud? Chomp Chomp Chomp. Let's just say we can't have nice things because of them. They don't eat it either, they are just curious.

3) In terms of tankmates
Really with any puffer consider anything you put in there to be expendable. It's harsh to say it like that, but honestly you could be good for three years, then one morning it your puffer just decided that it was time to kill. I describe puffers as water balloons with razor blade teeth that have a random thirst for blood at any moment. I really like tankmates with my Mbu as they pick up after him when he eats, I can't really do that with my fahaka though.

4)Foods
I like to feed snails if I can. As for dry foods, my fahaka loves to eat the large New Life Spectrum Pellets. Completely random I know, but he loves them and they are a good food. I feed him that, mysis, and some snails. His teeth don't grow very fast so I am never worried about that. A good thing to do is have a thriving population of malaysian trumpet snails in the sand/gravel before you add the puff so it is like an around the clock food/entertainment. Outside of those pellets, I haven't tried much. Best thing to do is feed your puffer with tongs so they know whatever you give them with tongs is food.

5) Temps
I really don't change the temps on my own. During the summer it gets hotter, when its in the winter itll be colder. I prefer the set it and forget it with a heater, but if you want do do that, go for it, just keep it <28c (82F).

6) Parameters
Stability is the best honestly. Your water has plenty of minerals so you should be great. My water is softer than that. Plus the crunched clams and snail shells in time will slowly add minerals to the water too.

7) Best Clams?
I really have no idea. My fahaka isn't big enough to eat clams, and feeding clams to a puffer that can't crunch through them is basically feeding clam meat as they aren't getting that crunch factor, but rather just scaping meat off of the clam. If that's the case you might as well just feed another frozen food and snails until they get bigger. Something to note is that clams are good for Mbu's more than fahaka as Mbu have much stronger teeth. Fahakas don't need clams as much, but they do help, just not every meal. Personally for my Mbu I have used Hikari and Ocean Nutrition, and I prefer Ocean Nutrition because it is cheaper. I plan on going to the asian market and buying frozen clams though just because money reasons though. I want to see how that goes. If you buy fresh, I would freeze them first yes, and I feed them frozen too. Once it hits the water it thaws real fast, especially when getting crunched up.

Any more questions? Keeping these fish is really easy (just like most fish), just a few tricks to it.

 

[wishuponafish]

Since each puffer can have different personalities/tendencies, I'll share my experiences with my fahaka too:

-I've had him for 4 months, started at 3/4" and currently 6" long
-Very interactive, he zooms at me whenever we make eye contact or when I enter the room (but not when it's my wife.) He hides in a corner during water changes.
-Doesn't bother plants but sometimes blows water at sand to hunt and that could potentially uncover their roots
-I can't tell if he likes water flow or not, sometimes he hangs out in front of the canister outflow but usually stays sheltered from it
-He'll eat anything I give him, whether it's algae wafers, hikari carnivore pellets, clams, shrimp, snails, worms, bugs, etc.
-As a staple I feed him frozen shortneck clams (no shell) and pellets, with occasional mystery snails, algae wafers, and nightcrawlers. I saw him chewing on malaysian trumpet snails once but I think he spits them out in the end.
-He only bothers certain tankmates. He's terrorized my dojo loaches when he was a baby, and has taken a "test bite" out of my ctenopoma once but never bothered it again, and ignores all of the faster-swimming tankmates. Of course he could catch and kill anything if/when he wanted to.

Zach72202 Can you tell me the name/size of the pellets you use? I've been wanting to switch over to NLS.

 

[Zach72202]

The food I feed is attached in an image (Miller High Life not for fish, only to enhance viewing experience)

My fahaka really didn't kill fish before I separated him from others, but I saw him take a few swipes at his tankmates and decided to separate him. When mine was a baby he had a bad issue with prolapse, so I have had him for about over a year and he has grown from 1 inch to about 5 inches. Shocking, but I am kinda okay with it. Keeps the food bill down and means I don't have to buy a 180g tank yet. I think he is stunted due to his health issues, but he seems very active and happy. I know, depending on the fish, but they can max out smaller than 18 inches (bigger too in rare cases), so I am thinking mine will result the same. I plan on keeping him in a 75g tank for a while until he is about 12 inches, but I have a lot of tanks so moving fish around is relatively easy for me.

 

[LadfromLondon]

1) During Waterchanges
Aggressive? No- I wouldn't worry about that, but you never know because each fish has its own personality. I would say mine are comparative to dogs/cats when you go vacuum the house. They go sit in the corner and hide until you are done. That being said, my Mbu puffer did bite my finger during a waterchange as I was not expecting it. Luckily he didn't get a good chomp as I was holding a python and his teeth grazed off my index finger. If he had gotten me any better I probably would have gone to the emergency room to reattach parts.

2) Puffers with plants
This is going to become very repetitive, but puffers are curious little creatures. This means that they may shred plant leaves/stems. My fahaka has taken a few chunks out of my Madagascar Lace Bulb (the actual bulb) when it was free floating in the tank. My Mbu did the same thing to an Aponogeton Boivinianus, but neither have really touched other plants too much. The occasional one when they are hungry, but nothing major. What ones are absolute terrors are my Schoutedeni puffers. Oh a stem? Chomp. Oh a leaf? Chomp. Oh a lace bulb starting to bud? Chomp Chomp Chomp. Let's just say we can't have nice things because of them. They don't eat it either, they are just curious.

3) In terms of tankmates
Really with any puffer consider anything you put in there to be expendable. It's harsh to say it like that, but honestly you could be good for three years, then one morning it your puffer just decided that it was time to kill. I describe puffers as water balloons with razor blade teeth that have a random thirst for blood at any moment. I really like tankmates with my Mbu as they pick up after him when he eats, I can't really do that with my fahaka though.

4)Foods
I like to feed snails if I can. As for dry foods, my fahaka loves to eat the large New Life Spectrum Pellets. Completely random I know, but he loves them and they are a good food. I feed him that, mysis, and some snails. His teeth don't grow very fast so I am never worried about that. A good thing to do is have a thriving population of malaysian trumpet snails in the sand/gravel before you add the puff so it is like an around the clock food/entertainment. Outside of those pellets, I haven't tried much. Best thing to do is feed your puffer with tongs so they know whatever you give them with tongs is food.

5) Temps
I really don't change the temps on my own. During the summer it gets hotter, when its in the winter itll be colder. I prefer the set it and forget it with a heater, but if you want do do that, go for it, just keep it <28c (82F).

6) Parameters
Stability is the best honestly. Your water has plenty of minerals so you should be great. My water is softer than that. Plus the crunched clams and snail shells in time will slowly add minerals to the water too.

7) Best Clams?
I really have no idea. My fahaka isn't big enough to eat clams, and feeding clams to a puffer that can't crunch through them is basically feeding clam meat as they aren't getting that crunch factor, but rather just scaping meat off of the clam. If that's the case you might as well just feed another frozen food and snails until they get bigger. Something to note is that clams are good for Mbu's more than fahaka as Mbu have much stronger teeth. Fahakas don't need clams as much, but they do help, just not every meal. Personally for my Mbu I have used Hikari and Ocean Nutrition, and I prefer Ocean Nutrition because it is cheaper. I plan on going to the asian market and buying frozen clams though just because money reasons though. I want to see how that goes. If you buy fresh, I would freeze them first yes, and I feed them frozen too. Once it hits the water it thaws real fast, especially when getting crunched up.

Any more questions? Keeping these fish is really easy (just like most fish), just a few tricks to it.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

I likely won’t try plants with my Fahaka. Having one hardscape-only tank will be a nice contrast to the planted community tank opposite. I’ll keep a pothos in the sump to help with water quality. His tank gets substantial, indirect sunlight throughout the day so his tank light will not be on much. Maybe 2/3 hours a day. It’s a bright light so there’s no point in me keeping his tank lit up if I’m not around to watch him/if there’s no plants to grow. I’ve also read they prefer subdued lighting anyway.

Other than water changes, how do you deal with waste management? I don’t mean water quality, rather I mean detritus/poop etc. Does it look real bad in between water changes? Do you physically remove detritus in between changes to keep the tank looking clean? I’ll be running a large sump, wavemaker and carbon so things should stay pretty clean and clear looking, but it’d be nice if his sand looked clean too!

Since each puffer can have different personalities/tendencies, I'll share my experiences with my fahaka too:

-I've had him for 4 months, started at 3/4" and currently 6" long
-Very interactive, he zooms at me whenever we make eye contact or when I enter the room (but not when it's my wife.) He hides in a corner during water changes.
-Doesn't bother plants but sometimes blows water at sand to hunt and that could potentially uncover their roots
-I can't tell if he likes water flow or not, sometimes he hangs out in front of the canister outflow but usually stays sheltered from it
-He'll eat anything I give him, whether it's algae wafers, hikari carnivore pellets, clams, shrimp, snails, worms, bugs, etc.
-As a staple I feed him frozen shortneck clams (no shell) and pellets, with occasional mystery snails, algae wafers, and nightcrawlers. I saw him chewing on malaysian trumpet snails once but I think he spits them out in the end.
-He only bothers certain tankmates. He's terrorized my dojo loaches when he was a baby, and has taken a "test bite" out of my ctenopoma once but never bothered it again, and ignores all of the faster-swimming tankmates. Of course he could catch and kill anything if/when he wanted to.

Zach72202 Can you tell me the name/size of the pellets you use? I've been wanting to switch over to NLS.

Thank you for your insight! Seems like Fahaka’s can get into dried foods more readily than others, such as Mbu.

I’ll be buying him/her at 1” or so, so very small. I’ve complied a short list of potential tank mates I’m willing to consider, it’ll just depend if he/she are tolerant-
Cardinal Tetras (By far the cheapest option for me to purchase. If it doesn’t work out, I can move them all into my community tank)

Synodontis Petricola (Clean-up crew/I’d like to keep African fish with an African Puffer. Worst case I’ll rehome and temporarily move them into my 25G quarantine)

Dwarf Girrafe Cat (Same as above)

Tiger Barbs (Slightly larger than Cardinals, can tolerate decent flow and a beating and look great. If it doesn’t work out, they can join my community tank)

 

[Zach72202]

For the first few months, he should do fine with tankmates, only nipping at slow ones, but as time goes on and he gets bigger he will most likely get more aggressive. I would be weary of the tiger barbs because puffers are lethal fish yes, and can do damage, but they aren't very tough. They like very smooth skin and are basically, as I call it, 'a water balloon with razor blades for teeth', but you have a backup plan in place already so I don't see why not I guess.

As for waste, they make pretty big poops. When they get bigger, assume like vienna sausage sized poops. Very odd description, but you will see them in the tank. If you can get a healthy population of Malaysian trumpet snails in the sand of his tank then they will clean up a lot of it at night. They are amazing when it comes to that.

 

[wishuponafish]

The food I feed is attached in an image (Miller High Life not for fish, only to enhance viewing experience)

My fahaka really didn't kill fish before I separated him from others, but I saw him take a few swipes at his tankmates and decided to separate him. When mine was a baby he had a bad issue with prolapse, so I have had him for about over a year and he has grown from 1 inch to about 5 inches. Shocking, but I am kinda okay with it. Keeps the food bill down and means I don't have to buy a 180g tank yet. I think he is stunted due to his health issues, but he seems very active and happy. I know, depending on the fish, but they can max out smaller than 18 inches (bigger too in rare cases), so I am thinking mine will result the same. I plan on keeping him in a 75g tank for a while until he is about 12 inches, but I have a lot of tanks so moving fish around is relatively easy for me.

I got the jumbo sized NLS pellets and my puffer LOVES them! Maybe a little too much, because he sometimes goes on a hunger strike where he won't touch anything but those... He gets super excited if he sees me pick up the NLS jar even if I was intending to feed it to a different tank, lol.