40 Gallon Breeder Angelfish/Bolivian Ram Tank

[Gameynerd23]

Hello, I'm working on a fish room in my home office and am thinking about doing a semi-agressive theme. So, I have two tanks with Bettas, a 20 gallon long that will be for some shell dweller cichlids, either multis or similis. And I want to have a 40 gallon breeder in the room as well. Here's my stocking idea for the 40 gallon breeder.

3 Angelfish
2 Bolivian Rams
13 Black Neon Tetras
7 Emperor Tetras
1 Bristlenose Pleco

I'm just trying to decide if it would be better to have the Bolivian Rams and the Angelfish in separate tanks or not. This is my other idea is I do separate tanks for the two centerpiece Cichlids.

40 Gallon Breeder:
5 Angelfish
1 Bristlenose Pleco
11 Emperor Tetras

20 Gallon Long:
2 Bolivian Rams
11 Glowlight Tetras

 

[Linda1234]

40 Breeders are bad for angelfish due to height; there is a 50 breeder that is same width/length but taller. When angels pair you only want 2 in a tank as small as a 50 breeder. However if you don't want to breed them you can get 5 male or 5 females. They might bicker a bit but it won't be too harsh.

Bolivians rams don't really pair and while not breeding they can be unpredictable. If you end up with 2 males again they can be very unpredictable. For breeding bolivian it is best to have a 2nd 10 gallon where you can move one if needed.

 

[kansas]

If you have more than one angelfish, unless you get lucky and have all females, you'll either have more than one male and they fight, or you're apt to get a breeding pair that will terrorize the other fish.

 

[Gameynerd23]

40 Breeders are bad for angelfish due to height; there is a 50 breeder that is same width/length but taller. When angels pair you only want 2 in a tank as small as a 50 breeder. However if you don't want to breed them you can get 5 male or 5 females. They might bicker a bit but it won't be too harsh.

Bolivians rams don't really pair and while not breeding they can be unpredictable. If you end up with 2 males again they can be very unpredictable. For breeding bolivian it is best to have a 2nd 10 gallon where you can move one if needed.

I've also seen some sources that say Bolivian Rams like to be in small groups, like 5 ish. I wasn't sure if that was the case or not. I do have a 10 gallon that has a handful of stragglers from small groups of fish, so they could be moved to a peaceful community tank pretty easily if a Ram hand to move house. Also, what about a Marineland 65 Gallon? It's 36" x 18" x 24"

EDIT: I was thinking of one at my LFS, which is a 53 gallon, and it is 36 x 18 x 21

If you have more than one angelfish, unless you get lucky and have all females, you'll either have more than one male and they fight, or you're apt to get a breeding pair that will terrorize the other fish.

I may check with LFS and see if they can sex any of their angelfish. They sell them a little bigger.

 

[TClare]

I definitely would not put angelfish in a 40 breeder. To me the 50 breeder sounds better for a pair, although I still think 5 in that size tank would be too much. However Linda1234 has more experience with angelfish so probably knows better. I am just going by mine, I have 6 adults in a tank that is 160 x 60 x 60 cm (I think they are all males as they only bicker, nothing serious and no pairs have formed). Ideally I would not want to keep that many in a smaller tank, they are really big and take up a lot of space.

 

[Gameynerd23]

Ok, here's my new thought for the stocking.

53 Gallon (36" x 18" x 21")
3 Angelfish (If they can be sexed)
2 Bolivian Rams (depending on if they can be in a pair)
13 Emperor Tetras
17 Black Neon Tetras
1 Bristlenose pleco
OR, instead of the emperor tetras and black neon tetras, could I do some Gouramis to create kind of a "big" fish tank. So, here's my other idea
3 Angelfish
2 Bolivian Rams
1 Bristlenose Pleco
5 Pearl Gourami OR some other gourami species

This would still be in the 53 gallon

 

[Linda1234]

I've also seen some sources that say Bolivian Rams like to be in small groups, like 5 ish. I wasn't sure if that was the case or not. I do have a 10 gallon that has a handful of stragglers from small groups of fish, so they could be moved to a peaceful community tank pretty easily if a Ram hand to move house. Also, what about a Marineland 65 Gallon? It's 36" x 18" x 24"

EDIT: I was thinking of one at my LFS, which is a 53 gallon, and it is 36 x 18 x 21

I may check with LFS and see if they can sex any of their angelfish. They sell them a little bigger.

36x18x21 is a 50 breeder. Good choice. I wouldn't believe your shop if they claim they can sex them. Just be prepared to remove some once they mature.

I definitely would not put angelfish in a 40 breeder. To me the 50 breeder sounds better for a pair, although I still think 5 in that size tank would be too much. However Linda1234 has more experience with angelfish so probably knows better. I am just going by mine, I have 6 adults in a tank that is 160 x 60 x 60 cm (I think they are all males as they only bicker, nothing serious and no pairs have formed). Ideally I would not want to keep that many in a smaller tank, they are really big and take up a lot of space.

Well if they are all females it should work ok. If they are all males it depends on the individual fish temperament; there shoudl be periods of peace as long as they accept the alpha as alpha. If they are mix sex; more than 2 will be a disaster.

Ok, here's my new thought for the stocking.

53 Gallon (36" x 18" x 21")
3 Angelfish (If they can be sexed)
2 Bolivian Rams (depending on if they can be in a pair)
13 Emperor Tetras
17 Black Neon Tetras
1 Bristlenose pleco
OR, instead of the emperor tetras and black neon tetras, could I do some Gouramis to create kind of a "big" fish tank. So, here's my other idea
3 Angelfish
2 Bolivian Rams
1 Bristlenose Pleco
5 Pearl Gourami OR some other gourami species

This would still be in the 53 gallon

I would either start with 4 or 5 small angels and when a pair forms remove the others (check if your lfs will take them); or go with 5 pearl gourami and drop the angels. Also I would go with either black neon tetra or emperor (not both) and reduce the number to 8 ish. The tank is fairly small.

 

[Gameynerd23]

I actually ended up getting a 65 gallon, 36 x 18 x 24. I think I'd like to do this for stocking
3 Angels (maybe observethem for awhile in the store and see who gets along)
2-3 Bolivian Rams
3 Pearl Gouramis
1 Bristlenose pleco
7 Emperor Tetras

 

[Linda1234]

I actually ended up getting a 65 gallon, 36 x 18 x 24. I think I'd like to do this for stocking
3 Angels (maybe observethem for awhile in the store and see who gets along)
2-3 Bolivian Rams
3 Pearl Gouramis
1 Bristlenose pleco
7 Emperor Tetras

Observing them in the store won't help for two reasons. First when they reach maturity their behavior will change; second when they are moved to a new environment with new configuration of angels they will reestablish their pecking order. One reason most store sell young angels and keep them in large groups is to avoid constant fighting that might otherwise occur. If you add rams to the tank with the angles I would get just one. They have their own issues in groups. If you get a BN I would recommend something like a super red; lemon blue eye or starlight. There are other types of pleco you could consider such as L204, L397, L104, L260 (not an algae eater), L134 (not an algae eater). Be aware that many pleco require a softish wood for their diet.

 

[Gameynerd23]

Observing them in the store won't help for two reasons. First when they reach maturity their behavior will change; second when they are moved to a new environment with new configuration of angels they will reestablish their pecking order. One reason most store sell young angels and keep them in large groups is to avoid constant fighting that might otherwise occur. If you add rams to the tank with the angles I would get just one. They have their own issues in groups. If you get a BN I would recommend something like a super red; lemon blue eye or starlight. There are other types of pleco you could consider such as L204, L397, L104, L260 (not an algae eater), L134 (not an algae eater). Be aware that many pleco require a softish wood for their diet.

Ok, so for the Bristlenose, I already have a longfin black baby in another tank, but I'll move it later on. My LFS normally has angels in stock, so hopefully if I have to surrender, they'll take them, but I'll check. I really like the idea of having some Pearl Gouramis with their beautiful colors and their flowing feeler fins, but if that would be too many big fish, I get that. Could I do Honey Gouramis for a Dither fish rather than the Emperor Tetras? For the Ram, would there be a species of bottom dweller it would be fine with? Maybe some Sterbai Corys or panda corys? Just to put it out there, here's an idea of what I'm thinking
3 Angelfish
1 Bolivian Ram
1 Bristlenose Pleco
7 Honey Gourami OR 7 Emperor Tetras
7 Sterbai Corys OR 13 Panda Corys

 

[Gameynerd23]

I am also curious about how much sand should go in the tank. Again, it's a 65 gallon tank, 36 x 18 x 24. I've seen 1.5 pounds per gallon, but with the smaller footprint and more height, I'm thinking maybe just a pound per gallon.

 

[Linda1234]

Depends how deep you want the substrate. For a heavily planted aquarium I shoot for 2 to 3 inches.

 

[Gameynerd23]

Depends how deep you want the substrate. For a heavily planted aquarium I shoot for 2 to 3 inches.

Cool, I will keep that in mind. I'm also thinking I'd like just one Angelfish to avoid fighting, maybe try to find a nice chunky one that looks like it'll get big. So,what about this stocking?
1 Angelfish
1 Bristlenose Pleco
1 Bolivian Ram
13 Honey Gouramis OR 3 Pearl Gouramis
13 Panda Corys OR 11 Bronze Corys

 

[Linda1234]

13 honey gouramis would be too many. I'd recommend bronze cory or sterbai as they are temp compatible with your fishes and heartier than most panda purchased in stores.

 

[Gameynerd23]

13 honey gouramis would be too many. I'd recommend bronze cory or sterbai as they are temp compatible with your fishes and heartier than most panda purchased in stores.

Alright, I'll see which species I can find easier, either Sterbai or Bronze, and 11 of whichever one I choose. I like the look of duller colored fish on the bottom and more vibrant colored fish up top. I've seen pictures of really colored up Bolivian Rams, but most I've seen are pretty toned down. Anyway, I think 1 Angelfish and 11 Emperor Tetras bringing a bunch of color to the top of the tank and the 1 Bolivian Ram with the 11 Sterbai/Bronze Corys bringing some activity to the bottom would look nice. Then, the longfin Bristlenose will kind of be all over the place with ample driftwood creepi g up the walls of the tank. It has those white-tipped fins, so I think that will make it really pop. I use Aqadvisor to help me with stocking and it was saying about a 25% percent weekly water change. Does that sound about right. I'll bump it up to 30% if not.

 

[Linda1234]

Just add the fishes slowly and make sure the aquarium is cycled as you will suffer a lot of losses if the tank is not cycled. I'd start with pleco wait a week and add the bronze cory. Then wait a week...

Also there is a chance the angelfish will eat the emperor when full grown but if they grow up together it will probably work out ok.

When you first add fish you need to measure ammnoia and/or nitrite both are quite deadly to fishes.

 

[Gameynerd23]

Just add the fishes slowly and make sure the aquarium is cycled as you will suffer a lot of losses if the tank is not cycled. I'd start with pleco wait a week and add the bronze cory. Then wait a week...

Also there is a chance the angelfish will eat the emperor when full grown but if they grow up together it will probably work out ok.

When you first add fish you need to measure ammnoia and/or nitrite both are quite deadly to fishes.

Sorry for the confusion, I did mean that 25-30% after the initial cycle. Would there be a better option that the Angel wouldn't be able to eat? I mean to replace the Emperor Tetras.

 

[Linda1234]

Well the diamond shape tetra are way too large to be eaten like black phantom, white fin rosy, serape, ... there are a lot of different species.

Sorry for the confusion, I did mean that 25-30% after the initial cycle. Would there be a better option that the Angel wouldn't be able to eat? I mean to replace the Emperor Tetras.

 

[TClare]

If the emperor tetras grow up with the angel they should be fine, they get quite big, I have some with my big angelfish. Just to make sure we are talking about Nematobrycon palmeri and not Inpaichthys kerri (purple or blue emperor tetra), which are much smaller.

 

[Gameynerd23]

Alright, I think this is my final stocking
1 Angelfish
1 Bolivian Ram
1 Bristlenose pleco
11 Emperor Tetras
11 Albino Aeneus Corys