32 Gallon Fluval Flex with German Blue Rams…

[Huckleberry77]

I am starting a thread here to journal the build of my new 32 gallon Fluval flex. I am upgrading my pair of German blue rams from the 15 gallon flex because it’s too intense/stressful just keeping a pair of them in there. So far, I have purchased the tank and the stand but the stand didn’t come with any hardware so we are waiting for that to arrive from the manufacturer so we can start assembling it. I went to Bensons fishroom in Ballston spa NY this weekend and picked up a really nice big piece of driftwood and some mountain stone to aquascape with. The sales guy Carter was super helpful in selecting the decor for the aquascape. I’m trying to decide on what kind of a plant-friendly substrate will go underneath the probably black sand I want to use on top. I am uncomfortable with using an Aqua soil because it can release ammonia and I am nervous about how that might affect my Rams. I may just go with that what I normally do which is eco-complete and root tabs. I don’t plan to run CO2 on this tank because of the Rams. I’ve never used CO2 because all of my fish are too precious to me to take that risk! Maybe someday I’ll give it a try.

at this time I am exploring what kind of tankmates would be suitable to go with the German Rams and have a short list of ideas. The shortlist includes hatchet fish, pencil fish, green neons, cardinal tetras. I am open to other suggestions but they have to be able to live comfortably in 81 or 82°F and Ph of 7.2, soft water.

This is going to be a display tank in my living room. I am moving out the 15 gallon flex and I’m not sure where that’s going to go next. The 32 gallon is going to go in the 15’s place where I can see it from my favorite chair.

 

[Dunk2]

You’ll likely get differing opinions (not unlike many subjects in this hobby ), but I wouldn’t suggest using EcoComplete substrate (even capped with sand) in a Ram tank.

I have EcoComplete in my 75 gallon community tank and sand in my Ram tank (a Flex 32.5). Because Rams are often foraging in the substrate and even sliding sideways across it at times (yes, they’re nuts), I think the EcoComplete (crushed lava rock) would be too sharp for them. And I’m just not sure that it would stay “buried” under the sand.

Before I share another opinion, understand that I suck at aquarium plants. But with that disclaimer in mind, I‘ve yet to personally experience any benefits to plants from EcoComplete.

In short, I’d go with a sand only substrate for Rams.

 

[Huckleberry77]

You’ll likely get differing opinions (not unlike many subjects in this hobby ), but I wouldn’t suggest using EcoComplete substrate (even capped with sand) in a Ram tank.

I have EcoComplete in my 75 gallon community tank and sand in my Ram tank (a Flex 32.5). Because Rams are often foraging in the substrate and even sliding sideways across it at times (yes, they’re nuts), I think the EcoComplete (crushed lava rock) would be too sharp for them. And I’m just not sure that it would stay “buried” under the sand.

Before I share another opinion, understand that I suck at aquarium plants. But with that disclaimer in mind, I‘ve yet to personally experience any benefits to plants from EcoComplete.

In short, I’d go with a sand only substrate for Rams.

This is interesting. In my current ram tank I do have Eco complete underneath the sand. But I did screw it up a bit and it’s kind of mixed together in spots. In the future I would make the cap thicker and only gravel vac above the sand not plunge the gravel vac into the sand.

What do you think about fluorite? Would that be a good sand to use for rams? Or that black diamond blasting sand? Or just that generic black sand that they sell at the LFS. I have heard that sand will compact too much around the roots of plants so it’s better to use something underneath the sand. I do not have any burrowing snails and don’t want to get them, so I worry the sand could get too compacted in a planted tank. I have Eco complete in my 75 and I think it was good for the plants for a few years. Now that it’s been in there for eight years I have to make sure I add root tabs and ferts or the plants don’t do so well.

How do you like the flex 32 for your Rams? Have you had to modify it at all? What have you stopped it with? In the 15 gallon I bought some modified parts on Etsy to make the Flo from the filter more gentle. I also got some intake covers to prevent the fry from getting sucked into the filter.

 

[MacZ]

In short, I’d go with a sand only substrate for Rams.

100% agree.

In the future I would make the cap thicker and only gravel vac above the sand not plunge the gravel vac into the sand.

Guarantee for fouling spots and anaerobic zones.

What do you think about fluorite? Would that be a good sand to use for rams? Or that black diamond blasting sand? Or just that generic black sand that they sell at the LFS. I have heard that sand will compact too much around the roots of plants so it’s better to use something underneath the sand. I do not have any burrowing snails and don’t want to get them, so I worry the sand could get too compacted in a planted tank.

I would be more concerned about the fish. Mikrogeophagus chew sand all the time. I have heard many reports with blasting sand being too sharp edged, causing mouth and gill problems. A rounded fine grain (0.4-0.7mm) is what you are looking for.

 

[Huckleberry77]

100% agree.


Guarantee for fouling spots and anaerobic zones.


I would be more concerned about the fish. Mikrogeophagus chew sand all the time. I have heard many reports with blasting sand being too sharp edged, causing mouth and gill problems. A rounded fine grain (0.4-0.7mm) is what you are looking for.

So if you have all sand substrate in a heavily planted tank how do you recommend avoiding anaerobic pockets? Do you use some kind of a gravel vacuuming method? Snails or burrowing loaches? Poking the substrate with a Chapstick?

I think I have heard that fluorite might be kind of sharp too. Also, the Tahitian Moon sand I’ve heard has a sparkle to it and I imagine if it has a sparkle that means it means it has sharp edges.

I was doing some Google searching and I read on another forum that Estes black sand is very soft and an excellent choice. I looked it up and it turns out that this is what I just happened to buy at the LFS for my current ram tank. So I guess I will probably just get more of this. I am happy with it so far.

 

[MacZ]

So if you have all sand substrate in a heavily planted tank how do you recommend avoiding anaerobic pockets? Do you use some kind of a gravel vacuuming method? Snails or burrowing loaches? Poking the substrate with a Chapstick?

By not heaping up very deep sand beds and not planting much in the substrate. The sand layer is only 2-3cm thick. If necessary chopsticks, but I haven't done this in a while. No need. Also if you plant in sand the rootwork usually doesn't

I think I have heard that fluorite might be kind of sharp too. Also, the Tahitian Moon sand I’ve heard has a sparkle to it and I imagine if it has a sparkle that means it means it has sharp edges.

I was doing some Google searching and I read on another forum that Estes black sand is very soft and an excellent choice. I looked it up and it turns out that this is what I just happened to buy at the LFS for my current ram tank. So I guess I will probably just get more of this. I am happy with it so far.

I don't understand brand names. I only deal with parameters of a product. You can name any brand and product name, I have to look it up if I don't happen to use it myself. Plus many of your brands in the US are not available here in Europe and vice versa.
Anyhow the sparke likely points to sharp edges, correct.

 

[Dunk2]

I was doing some Google searching and I read on another forum that Estes black sand is very soft and an excellent choice. I looked it up and it turns out that this is what I just happened to buy at the LFS for my current ram tank. So I guess I will probably just get more of this. I am happy with it so far.

I think StarGirl uses this. . . Maybe she has an opinion.

 

[StarGirl]

I use that brand but I have the aquarium substrate not the sand.

 

[New2fishlovinit]

Hiya

I used eco complete both red and black versions for my first couple of tanks and find it pretty sharp. I mixed in over time sand but it tends to fall to the bottom when I’m planting or cleaning. I don’t have earth eating fish in those tanks … works fine for my corydoras and although I find planting in sand easier to keep rooted etc, some plants just won’t grown in sand for me ie vals. In the end I’m just excited to see what ya do with it!


I love my cardinals and would recommend for sure, 15 or so maybe if I had not already committed to corydoras I would have done Rams/cardinals…

excited for hardware to come in for ya.

 

[Huckleberry77]

I just discovered that a breeder is bringing Orange Venezuelan Cories to the UNYKA swap meet. I am not a cory person for a variety of reasons but these are very tempting ! They are also from the Orinoco river so I think MacZ would approve

 

[MacZ]

What's the footprit of the tank again? Corydoras and dwarf cichlids together need a lot of space to work.

 

[Huckleberry77]

What's the footprit of the tank again? Corydoras and dwarf cichlids together need a lot of space to work.

Roughly 32” long by 15” by 15”. I hear you on that one. How much floor space do I want to reserve for rams versus adding Cories. And Corey’s also need to be in a school. The seller is selling them in a breeding group of six so that could take up a lot of real estate.

 

[MacZ]

Roughly 32” long by 15” by 15”

So... roughly 80x40 footprint. And you want to densely plant it... Then it's either cichlids or catfish. Otherwise neither species has the necessary floorspace.

The seller is selling them in a breeding group of six so that could take up a lot of real estate.

I wouldn't keep less than 10-15. But not in this tank.

 

[Huckleberry77]

So... roughly 80x40 footprint. And you want to densely plant it... Then it's either cichlids or catfish. Otherwise neither species has the necessary floorspace.

I wouldn't keep less than 10-15. But not in this tank.

Makes sense. The Orange Ven cories are very pretty. Will keep them on my list for future stocking ideas. I would rather have extra room for rams in this tank anyway.

 

[Huckleberry77]

Painted the background today.

Then put the aquarium in place and got the substrate and hardscape roughly placed.

I had to weigh down the wood because it was floating. I planted crypt spiralis on the left, Brazilian pennywort in the middle, and Rotala magenta on the right.


Added some anubias that were overgrowing my other tank. Also added some java fern. I will need to adjust the scape after the wood sinks.

 

[Huckleberry77]

MacZ I have a mulberry tree. Would those be good leaves to dry and add to my tank? I am also going to a swap where a vendor will have all these botanicals available- Botanicals Archives - KJE Aquatics . Are there any particular ones you would recommend for rams? The bael and other pods look cool. This is a sampler mix- Botanical Pod Ditty - KJE Aquatics

 

[MacZ]

MacZ I have a mulberry tree. Would those be good leaves to dry and add to my tank?

General rule:
Decidious tree, brown leaf - safe
Decidious tree, green leaf - only safe as food (for shrimp or snails)
Evergreens - stay clear
Coniferous trees - stay clear

 

[Huckleberry77]

General rule:
Decidious tree, brown leaf - safe
Decidious tree, green leaf - only safe as food (for shrimp or snails)
Evergreens - stay clear
Coniferous trees - stay clear

Thanks!

 

[LilyPipeDreams]

Lovely project! Look forward to updates

 

[Huckleberry77]

I am totally obsessing over which dither fish to get and where to source them.

Cardinal Tetras- so beautiful, but maybe too sensitive?
Green Neon Tetras- beautiful but maybe too shy and/or sensitive
Rummy Nose Tetras- cute but reportedly very sensitive and there are so many different species... which one is which? . H. bleheri, H. rhodostomus and Petitella georgiae are all sold as rummynose!
Red Phantom Tetras- I saw some in the video MacZ posted with Rams and they are very pretty and allegedly hardy. But do they swim too low in the tank? I love this video of them-

Orange Von Rio Tetras- bright colors and hardy!
Coral Red Pencilfish- very beautiful but expensive and hard to find.
Diamond Tetras- beautifully sparkly, irridescent, and flowy fins…plus pretty hardy
Silver or Marble Hatchets- cute but I get stressed by super jumpy fish.

 

[FinalFins]

My vote goes to the green neons. The pencils are nice too, and I reckon you could probably ask Bensons to special order them.

 

[Huckleberry77]

My vote goes to the green neons. The pencils are nice too, and I reckon you could probably ask Bensons to special order them.

I will have to call around on pricing and availability. Right now only Dan’s fish has the coral red pencilfish and they are selling for almost $30 EACH! Maybe they are out of season right now? I could pick up green neons at the UNYKA swap this weekend. I hear very mixed reviews on whether they are super sensitive or fairly hardy. Have you kept them? Any observations? Are they super shy?

UPDATE- Well I placed an order for 30 green neons! I was able to source them from a local guy (Chris’s Fishes) who has had them 90 days in his hard tap water and 74F. If they survived that I think they should be ok in my soft, warm water. I will pick them up Saturday from the UNYKA swap meet.

Here’s an AQadvisor list of possible eventual combinations. I don’t plan to add ALL of these. Just getting a very rough idea of possible stocking levels and options.

 

[TClare]

I would prefer to go with the smaller species as dither fish since diamond tetras get quite big, close to the size of the rams in fact. I think the green neons would be ideal, and I would probably have just those, though I do also love the red pencils (and wish I could get some!), probably both of these species would be fine, and maybe the pencils keep nearer the top of the tank than the tetras.

Edit: If the red pencilfish are difficult or too expensive any of the other pencilfish would be nice as well. I have beckfords which are very nice. The Copella I have would be good too, but maybe difficult to find. Both of these go everywhere but spend most time near the surface.

 

[MacZ]

Well I placed an order for 30 green neons!

Well, then you can scratch the diamonds. It may eventually work out in terms of bioload, but going by space requirements with 30 P. simulans, a pair of Microgeophagus and a group of pencils you're pretty much at the tank's limit. I personally would scratch the Nannostomus too.

 

[86 ssinit]

Wow!! You’ve got aquascaping skills!! . Nice tank. It’s a bow front? Like the neons but if they’re coming from hard water to soft acclimate them slowly. Also don’t stay at the show all day. I’m guessing since you ordered them they will be in a bag when you get there. Ask when he bagged them. For the 4 rams your looking for you will need a few more areas for them to claim. A lot of that tank is open. 2 males and 2 females would be best. Funny thing with rams. Everybody says they need warm water 82*. Before discus I kept rams in 79* and they lived about 5yrs. Now with the ones I’ve had at 82 they only live around 2yrs. Never had a problem with the rams and corys. Corys occupy the bottom and rams about 4-6” above. Mine never even bother with each other. Sterbai’s would do well. Shocked they’re getting $30 a red pencil! I had them once about 10yrs ago. $1 a peice. Bought 3 and wished I’d bought more. They lived around 8yrs in a 29g with rams.

 

[Huckleberry77]

Well, then you can scratch the diamonds. It may eventually work out in terms of bioload, but going by space requirements with 30 P. simulans, a pair of Microgeophagus and a group of pencils you're pretty much at the tank's limit. I personally would scratch the Nannostomus too.

I decided to go with the 30 Green neons because I figured I may lose a few in the first several months. I didn’t want the school to end up too small and have to try to source some more and quarantine them. I’ve also heard they can be extremely shy in small numbers so I decided to err on the side of a few extras rather than too few. So I’ll see where the number stabilizes in the neon school and then decide if and when to add any other species of fish.

Wow!! You’ve got aquascaping skills!! . Nice tank. It’s a bow front? Like the neons but if they’re coming from hard water to soft acclimate them slowly. Also don’t stay at the show all day. I’m guessing since you ordered them they will be in a bag when you get there. Ask when he bagged them. For the 4 rams your looking for you will need a few more areas for them to claim. A lot of that tank is open. 2 males and 2 females would be best. Funny thing with rams. Everybody says they need warm water 82*. Before discus I kept rams in 79* and they lived about 5yrs. Now with the ones I’ve had at 82 they only live around 2yrs. Never had a problem with the rams and corys. Corys occupy the bottom and rams about 4-6” above. Mine never even bother with each other. Sterbai’s would do well. Shocked they’re getting $30 a red pencil! I had them once about 10yrs ago. $1 a peice. Bought 3 and wished I’d bought more. They lived around 8yrs in a 29g with rams.

Thanks! The aquascape is a work in progress but I am optimistic!

The tank is a vertical bow front. It seems to have much less distortion or no distortion compared to the horizontal bowfront.

yes I will definitely be adjusting the aquascape to have more sight line breaks for the Rams. Especially if I get more than the two I have. Or maybe I will try and raise up some fry from the two that I have and add those! coralbandit suggested I add two more female rams to try to defuse the aggression against the single female.

I think that some of the other pencil fish that have some red in them are less expensive. But the coral red pencil fish demand top dollar right now.

The ram temperature is a funny thing. People on both hot/cool sides insist that their temperature strategy is better and helps the rams to live longer! I think we would need to do some studies to see if fish siblings kept in identical conditions except for different temperatures live longer or shorter lifespans. I suspect there may be some survival of the fittest taking place in different breeder’s tanks too. The hot water breeders select for fish that do best in hot water and the cool water breeders are selecting for fish that thrive in the cool water. Who knows?!

 

[Huckleberry77]

Worked on quick cycling the tank with bottled ammonia and media from my 75gal.

 

[MacZ]

People on both hot/cool sides insist that their temperature strategy is better and helps the rams to live longer!

Erm... while I agree that warmer is better for the species, it does not prolong their life.
Both sides are right in a way:
If you keep them warmer you encounter less health problems and generally better bodily functions. This of course can cause a fish with bad health from overbreeding to survive longer than in conditions not appropriate. Downside: Metabolism runs faster, so the overall lifetime is shorter.
If you keep them in cooler temperatures you will encounter more health problems, though thanks to slower metabolism the overall life expectancy is higher.

I personally find warmer temperatures make for a better quality of life for them, at the cost of the fish dropping dead earlier, but also healthy.

 

[Huckleberry77]

Erm... while I agree that warmer is better for the species, it does not prolong their life.
Both sides are right in a way:
If you keep them warmer you encounter less health problems and generally better bodily functions. This of course can cause a fish with bad health from overbreeding to survive longer than in conditions not appropriate. Downside: Metabolism runs faster, so the overall lifetime is shorter.
If you keep them in cooler temperatures you will encounter more health problems, though thanks to slower metabolism the overall life expectancy is higher.

I personally find warmer temperatures make for a better quality of life for them, at the cost of the fish dropping dead earlier, but also healthy.

Yes, this sounds about right to me.

 

[Huckleberry77]

Drip acclimating my green neons. They seem super active and healthy. They are playing in the air bubbles while they drip acclimate. They are coming from harder water so I am taking it slow.

Schooling up pretty nice! Too fast for a good picture though!

 

[Huckleberry77]

I tested my pH today- 6.8 which I am pleased with for this South American Tank. TDS is reading high at 189. My ram tank 120. What’s raising my TDS in this new tank. Botanicals? Mountain Stone? I don’t think it’s organic waste because I just added 30 neons on Saturday and the Nitrates were reading 5. Good news that ammonia and and nitrite are holding at 0 so my rapid cycle with media from other tank worked.

I have not lost any green neons yet. However, one has some missing areas of pigmentation around the middle, and one other has a white dot on the top of its head. All are active and eating. I wormed with Prazipro as a precaution. They need very tiny foods. I have been feeding them Dr. Bassler baby nano powder, golden pearls, and frozen Daphnia. They are too small to eat any thing else that I have.
Evolving aquascape now includes Amazon Frogbit Floaters, Brazilian Pennywort, Christmas Moss, a Red Rubin Sword, and various botanical pods etc.
Interesting looking botanicals I found at the swap meet. Some are still floating. Others have sunk.
Stocking update- The Wet Spot has Nanostomus Mortenthaleri (Coral Red Pencilfish- Peru) for $13 a fish. Marble Hatchets are $3.50 each. Do I go for a bold color? Or a bold shape? Decisions… decisions….
Holding out for Dwarf Hatchets- Carnegiella schereri might also be worthwhile. The dwarf size would allow me to have a few more without overstocking my tank. The larger school would probably keep them calmer. I like the silver body and the black trim along the bottom of the hatchet. Marbled and Marthae hatchetfish are also under 1.5” according to my research, so their size would work.

 

[MacZ]

Mountain Stone?

Yep, the rocks I see in the pictures are not inert and dissolve stuff. They are likely sediment rocks, basically ancient seafloor. With musselshells and the whole chalk layers. I'd replace them with inert, rounded river rocks soon.
Botanicals raise TDS only minimally.

Plus you say you treated in the tank. Of course that raises TDS as well temporary. Just a hint: Deworming is only necessary with wild caught fish, bottom dwellers and certain groups like livebearers.

Concerning hatchets: Go for marbled, the others might take half a year or so until you find them.

 

[Huckleberry77]

Yep, the rocks I see in the pictures are not inert and dissolve stuff. They are likely sediment rocks, basically ancient seafloor. With musselshells and the whole chalk layers. I'd replace them with inert, rounded river rocks soon.
Botanicals raise TDS only minimally.

Thanks, I will check on this and start looking for river stones.

Plus you say you treated in the tank. Of course that raises TDS as well temporary. Just a hint: Deworming is only necessary with wild caught fish, bottom dwellers and certain groups like livebearers.

The green neons were wild caught. The guy bought them from said that they were wormed before he got them but I wanted to make sure it was done so I treated them myself. I have heard that pretty much all fish at pet stores get exposed to worms. Is this not true?

One thing I have noticed is that the PraziPro caused my Bosemani Rainbowfish to stop eating for quite a while. I also warmed my Rams as a precaution because they would be going in the tank with the neons and I wanted to make sure everything was treated. The Rams also seemed off and lost their appetite and were more listless/less alert after worming them with PraziPro despite following the instructions.

Concerning hatchets: Go for marbled, the others might take half a year or so until you find them.

OK I’m guessing that this has to do with the rainy season cycle in the Amazon jungle. How many hatchets would you go for? I hear they are sensitive and I think that I might lose a couple. I want to have a decent sized school but I don’t want to overstock the tank. 7 Hatchets? 9?

So far all neons are alive and well. They are super cute and I am very happy with my decision to get them, and get 30 of them. Watching all 30 school around the tank is quite a sight to behold!

 

[MacZ]

I have heard that pretty much all fish at pet stores get exposed to worms. Is this not true?

Not necessarily. I know wholesalers and retailers that are worm free but have problems with other parasites. Let's put it this way: Fish are exposed to all kinds of parasites at retailers. But not to all at once.

OK I’m guessing that this has to do with the rainy season cycle in the Amazon jungle.

I was thinking more along the lines of marbles being a standard in the trade, while the others are not. Many retailers will order marbled hatchets only even if the other species are available from the wholesaler.

I hear they are sensitive and I think that I might lose a couple. I want to have a decent sized school but I don’t want to overstock the tank. 7 Hatchets? 9?

10.

 

[86 ssinit]

Hatchet fish are nice fish but they stay on the top of the tank. Other fish may hit at them cause they look like food. Next they are jumpers. It’s what they do in the wild. The fish is designed to jump. So being their top dwellers with bottom fish seeing them as food jumping does happen. Also they have a short lifespan. As you can guess they didn’t work out to well with discus.

 

[Huckleberry77]

I was thinking more along the lines of marbles being a standard in the trade, while the others are not. Many retailers will order marbled hatchets only even if the other species are available from the wholesaler.

I have an LFS that will special order anything available at The Wet Spot if I request it. I can also order directly from The Wet Spot myself. However, the selection is limited right now.

 

[MacZ]

Then knock yourself out.

 

[Huckleberry77]

I have decided to order 6 male pure endlers from Adrian Hernandez. They are so pretty and I have never kept them. I may put them in this 33, or the 15 gallon flex after I move the male ram out. I don’t want hundreds of fry or a breeding project right now so I am just going with males to see how I like them. Adrian says they are adaptable and should be fine in either setup, especially with the live plants. I fear I might be getting the endler bug! I also like the Staeks endlers, yellow cobra endlers, and the tropical sky endlers. The ones I am getting from Adrian will be black bars and double red chests which I really like too.

 

[Huckleberry77]

Well at this point Ursula my GBR has been in the 33 gallon tank for about a week. She seems to be settling in OK. She hides a little bit more than she did in the other tank but there are more hiding spots in here. The filter flow seems higher than it was because they were only sponge filters in the other tank. I’m not sure if the flow is bothering her. The flow does not seem to bother the neons or the Endlers at all so it can’t be that strong. Six of the eight Endlers Adrian Hernandez sent me have survived. One was DOA and one I lost mysteriously two weeks ago. Other than that there have been no deaths in the tank.

The green neons are voracious eaters. I actually have to keep an eye on my ram to make sure she’s getting enough food. These little neons will even eat off the substrate! They will eat pellets that the ram takes time to chew and appear too big for them. They can also eat a whole bloodworm! I plan to move Klaus the male ram into the tank on Friday. I’m getting some new fish in the mail and will be putting those into his tank.

 

[JustAFishServant]

Eheh....that's my dream tank but I'm too poor

 

[Huckleberry77]

Eheh....that's my dream tank but I'm too poor

I shopped around and was able to get the 33 gallon flex on sale at Petco for 250! They do go on sale! You will eventually get your dream tank!

 

[JustAFishServant]

I shopped around and was able to get the 33 gallon flex on sale at Petco for 250! They do go on sale! You will eventually get your dream tank!

My previous LFS sold it for $250 full-price, but that was 3-4 yrs ago. Man, why has everything gotten so expensive, especially for a rescuer such as myself. I wish everything was cheap as a brick like it used to be