Y’all are my only resource....Kanaplex for dropsy?!

[KribensisLover1]

Pls help!
Many of the kribs (and only the kribs) in my tank have dropsy. No other types of fish do (yet). A baby Krib died last week. I’ve been doing Epsom salts for the sickest ones.
**soooo, I Just got kanaplex in the mail. Should I treat the entire tank? I don’t have enough room in a QT tank for all of my 6 Kribs and I’m not even sure who all is sick— bc I can’t tell they’re sick until it’s too late almost. So can I treat entire tank with kanaplex? Pls assist.
Also the sickest one has bright red cheeks. And so did tne one who died. My ammonia levels are 0. And I did a water change yesterday. I emptied and filled the tank and emptied and filled it again to clean everything up.

 

[MacZ]

Red cheeks can also come from infections. Dropsy is just a symptom of a bacterial infection, which is usually best countered with frequent high volume (50-70%) waterchanges for about a week give or take (two on consecutive days and then one every other day.

It is not uncommon that only one species is affected.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Red cheeks can also come from infections. Dropsy is just a symptom of a bacterial infection, which is usually best countered with frequent high volume (50-70%) waterchanges for about a week give or take (two on consecutive days and then one every other day.

It is not uncommon that only one species is affected.

WAIT the sickest one has stringy white poop. I am not sure what that means but I feel like now I do need to medicate?

 

[A201]

There's a very good possibility that the antibiotics will put a big dent in your BB, causing an ammonia spike.
That will put the apparently unaffected tankmates in a fish - in recycling process.
The red mark's & streaking on the sick fish is likely Septicemia, internal hemorrhaging, another symptom of infection.
Sometimes it's best to cut your losses & attempt to save the apparent healthy tankmates.

 

[MacZ]

Put that med down. Trigg.,.. bottle happy, hm? I can understand you're nervous and want to do something, but patience and a clear head are your best bet now.

Are you absolutely sure? Because that can be a secondary infection with inner parasites and you would then need something else. But these usually don't show dropsy as a symptom.

Have you gone through all possibilities for diagnose? Tried the disease template here and all? And only come to the conclusion of dropsy?

 

[KribensisLover1]

Put that med down. Trigg.,.. bottle happy, hm? I can understand you're nervous and want to do something, but patience and a clear head are your best bet now.

Are you absolutely sure? Because that can be a secondary infection with inner parasites and you would then need something else. But these usually don't show dropsy as a symptom.

Have you gone through all possibilities for diagnose? Tried the disease template here and all? And only come to the conclusion of dropsy?

Thank you for your reply ! MacZ and A201
So I see white stringy poo today. Just seeing that today and only once on the sickest fish, a male named Elvis. ALSO the great news (as weird as this sounds) is that the first day when I gave him the Epsom bath I barely had to net him. He was just sitting in an ornament I picked up. Then yesterday he was a bit better, swimming around a little, yet similar in that netting him was so simple.
the good news is that today? I couldn’t catch the bugger. SO that means two things: 1.) the Epsom baths are helping. BUT 2.) I CANT GIVE HIM ANOTHER BATH BC I CANT CATCH HIM! He’s still kind of hanging out in one spot but he colors up and chases others out which is his usual personality.
So basically I see white stringy poo, yesterday when I fed I saw the kribs go for the blood worms but eat and spit out eat and spit out so they never ingested the entire blood worm. Should I make sure I catch the Elvis, the sickest fish, to give a third day of Epsom? He’s not at all as bad as the fish who died. This guy is saveable imho.

 

[MacZ]

You are giving it just more stress if you keep catching it. If it can outrun you, the next step would be improving the conditions. And do waterchanges.

What are your water parameters? What temperature? What besides bloodworms do you feed? How is the general state of the tank? (Picture?) What is your waterchange schedule?

White stringy poo can also be a sign of an infection and lack of food. It could be part of the lining of the intestants. I actually presume just one or two might have this as a side-infection.

 

[KribensisLover1]

You are giving it just more stress if you keep catching it. If it can outrun you, the next step would be improving the conditions. And do waterchanges.

What are your water parameters? What temperature? What besides bloodworms do you feed? How is the general state of the tank? (Picture?) What is your waterchange schedule?

White stringy poo can also be a sign of an infection and lack of food. It could be part of the lining of the intestants. I actually presume just one or two might have this as a side-infection.

This is updated Bc my original post was about the baby and it didn’t get replies. This was just filled out and is about the large male. Thank you so much.

Tank
40 breeder
What is the water volume of the tank? Forty breeder
How long has the tank been running? March
Does it have a filter? Two an AC 70 and AC 30
Does it have a heater? Aqueon 300 Watts
What is the water temperature?79
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
6 kribs I raised born last January
Two juvie Angels
13 red eye tetras

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Weekly/last two changes have been after 10 days then 12 days, bc since I put the second filter on, the water quality has been better. . Last water change was yesterday. I emptied and filled emptied and filled tank to clean as much as I could of the bottoms.
How much of the water do you change? 60% or even 80% the first time yesterday
What do you use to treat your water? Prime and stress coat
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Both

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? API master
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
JUST TESTED
Ammonia: DEF. 0. Now with two filters it’s bright yellow
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10
pH: 7.4

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? 5X week
How much do you feed your fish? more than I should bc the tetras at the top steal all the food so I overfeed and let too much go down to the bottom guys.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Ken’s fish food
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
Not for a while finally did blood worms sat and again yesterday (after the water change).
Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Since born beg. of last January
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? The baby died last Th. I went away for the weekend and came back Sunday and saw the largest male was sick. Red cheeks and distorted body a little. Today saw white stringy poop. Still has red cheeks yet seems to have better all around coloring.I believe he was interested in yesterday’s blood worms, however he and many other Kribs ate them, spit them out, ate them, spit them out, never fully ingesting.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Seems to be constantly opening his mouth, so I guess mildly gasping (he’s not like the baby who died, though, who was taking huge gasps and was swimming vertically in a tiny hut. )
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Epsom bath on Sun and Mon left in for 45 min. Which is long I didn’t mean to. The male was very calm in the bath. The female I put in yesterday was swimming into the qt tank sides and was very active so clearly she’s not as sick. Today I can’t catch the male for a bath.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No he’s been fine
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? See above

 

[MacZ]

Hmm... from my experience changes in the waterchange schedule and - as you say yourself - overfeeding is a combination cooked up by the darkest of giants.

Your stocking is still within what a 40 can do but slip in the schedule just might have been it. This is the moment you bacteria in the tank besides the BBs have waited for. The new filter, thou longterm a good idea, might just need some time to find it's balance. As the kribs would usually mostly stay in the bottom third of the tank they might have just been exposed to more bacteria.

The salt baths might have cured the symptom somewhat, the cause must be worked on, otherwise it's going to come back.

Is the tank planted?

 

[KribensisLover1]

Hmm... from my experience changes in the waterchange schedule and - as you say yourself - overfeeding is a combination cooked up by the darkest of giants.

Your stocking is still within what a 40 can do but slip in the schedule just might have been it. This is the moment you bacteria in the tank besides the BBs have waited for. The new filter, thou longterm a good idea, might just need some time to find it's balance. As the kribs would usually mostly stay in the bottom third of the tank they might have just been exposed to more bacteria.

The salt baths might have cured the symptom somewhat, the cause must be worked on, otherwise it's come back.

Is the tank planted?

Well funny you say that, Bc I ALSO just changed out the filter sponges. So the AC 70 was overflowing no matter how often I cleaned the sponge, due to all the moss and stuff that had accumulated, EVEN with a pre filter intake cover. At that point I only had an AC 70 with a sponge, carbon, and two sets of ceramic rings (the second set was for emergencies).

In order to stop the overflow, I replaced the clogged sponge with a brand new sponge in the 70 (and had put in new carbon a few days prior).
I then set up the AC 30 with the old 70 sponge cut in half and the second set of ceramic rings and ran it alongside the 70. However the AC 30 clogged and so I put a new sponge in the 30 a few weeks after the AC 70.

So an extra filter AND new sponges? The parameters were even better than they were pre filter changes, however, still a huge change.
It is not a planted tank except for a bit of Java Fern. You’re so smart! You called that. What would you propose I do now? THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[MacZ]

Keep up the waterchanges until you got the new sponges cycled. And maybe collect some leaves outside if you can still find enough (Oak would be preferred, but you can use a wide variety.)

After that get started with getting into live plants. You don't have to get expensive ones, or CO2 or fancy fertilisers. Just get some easy plants and maybe some floaters. There are many easy plants that basically grow themselves. Just with all the waterweed, hornwort and salvinia you get for 20 bucks you can get to a really good starting point.

And please don't use carbon unless there are meds to remove. And don't use meds unless you have an clear diagnose.

Oh and keep the poop under obeservation. This might be parasites that took the chance. But that is not at all for sure, so keep watching. First the dropsy and the bacteria, then look at the parasites.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Keep up the waterchanges until you got the new sponges cycled. And maybe collect some leaves outside if you can still find enough (Oak would be preferred, but you can use a wide variety.)

After that get started with getting into live plants. You don't have to get expensive ones, or CO2 or fancy fertilisers. Just get some easy plants and maybe some floaters. There are many easy plants that basically grow themselves. Just with all the waterweed, hornwort and salvinia you get for 20 bucks you can get to a really good starting point.

And please don't use carbon unless there are meds to remove. And don't use meds unless you have an clear diagnose.

Oh and keep the poop under obeservation. This might be parasites that took the chance. But that is not at all for sure, so keep watching. First the dropsy and the bacteria, then look at the parasites.

Thank you so much! I tried plants and I totally failed. Somebody on here sent me $80 of plant from aquarium co op and they ALL DIED except the Java. Im happy to try again I just wish I was better at it! And I shouldn’t use a carbon insert in the filter? The only reason I do is to control smell. I will take it out!

 

[MacZ]

With the right choice of plants there is no being good or bad at it.
Carbon removes a lot of other stuff good and bad.
And good you mention the smell, that definitely means something is out of whack. A tank with a balance of plants and fish should not smell bad.

 

[KribensisLover1]

With the right choice of plants there is no being good or bad at it.
Carbon removes a lot of other stuff good and bad.
And good you mention the smell, that definitely means something is out of whack. A tank with a balance of plants and fish should not smell bad.

update. Today one of the females was clearly distorted in the body. I caught her fairly easily and did a 15 min Epsom bath. Makes me worried the stress will kill them. Here’s pics. I can’t tell if she’s pinevoning and when I try to use my phone light she panics and swims into the walls so I won’t do that. I do cover the Epsom bath tank with towels so she won’t be as stressed and put a hide in there.
Actually it’s never smelled bad, I just don’t want it to! It has smelled of sulfur after a water change, though that’s expected. I was thinking the carbon was why it didn’t smell, but I don’t have carbon in the AC 30 and the tank still smells fine. Here’s a list of the plants I got. I tried flourish plant supplement (not excel) and it didn’t help except when I accidentally highly overdosed it. However as soon as I did water changes the plants suffered. I also have tried Osmocote BUT only a few tiny pellets NOT the capsules. The one remaining is the Java. The temple lasted a little while, the melon lasted a while (and it still had a major root base until yesterday when it finally fell apart) but no leaves and the Anubias died very quickly. The rest never stood a chance. Not sure what I did wrong Bc algae grows just fine. Here’s a pic to see algae. I never wipe the plants down though so they haven’t exploded in growth Bc I move the light back and forth to the front and then back of the tank (see pics).

 

[MacZ]

update. Today one of the females was clearly distorted in the body. I caught her fairly easily and did a 15 min Epsom bath. Makes me worried the stress will kill them. Here’s pics. I can’t tell if she’s pinevoning and when I try to use my phone light she panics and swims into the walls so I won’t do that. I do cover the Epsom bath tank with towels so she won’t be as stressed and put a hide in there.

The stress is one of the reasons I don't advise for baths if the fish are over a certain point

Actually it’s never smelled bad, I just don’t want it to! It has smelled of sulfur after a water change, though that’s expected. I was thinking the carbon was why it didn’t smell, but I don’t have carbon in the AC 30 and the tank still smells fine. Here’s a list of the plants I got. I tried flourish plant supplement (not excel) and it didn’t help except when I accidentally highly overdosed it. However as soon as I did water changes the plants suffered. I also have tried Osmocote BUT only a few tiny pellets NOT the capsules. The one remaining is the Java. The temple lasted a little while, the melon lasted a while (and it still had a major root base until yesterday when it finally fell apart) but no leaves and the Anubias died very quickly. The rest never stood a chance. Not sure what I did wrong Bc algae grows just fine. Here’s a pic to see algae. I never wipe the plants down though so they haven’t exploded in growth Bc I move the light back and forth to the front and then back of the tank (see pics). View attachment 743017

That list of plants is not what I would have given a beginner. Anubias and Java ferns: Yes. Rest... not.
I'm confused how the Anubias could have died. Planted them in the substrate maybe?
Anyway, those were mostly no beginner plants. None of them besides the fern is actually a common plant, for some you pay quite a price here in Europe, as my research just showed.
Here's a list of actually easy plants that should help:
Hornwort* (Ceratophyllum), Egeria/Elodea* (formerly known and still often sold as Anacharis), Anubias barteri (var. nana), Microsorum pteropus, Hydrocotyle leucocephala*, Limnobium laevigatum**
All with a * you can just float. ** is a pure floating plant.

The algae grow fine because there are no/not enough plants to use up the nutrients and you used fertilizers without knowing if they were actually necessary in the first place. The algae basically are what uses up nutrients in you tank instead of higher plants.

Otherwise the water hardness would be helpful to know.

 

[KribensisLover1]

The stress is one of the reasons I don't advise for baths if the fish are over a certain point



That list of plants is not what I would have given a beginner. Anubias and Java ferns: Yes. Rest... not.
I'm confused how the Anubias could have died. Planted them in the substrate maybe?
Anyway, those were mostly no beginner plants. None of them besides the fern is actually a common plant, for some you pay quite a price here in Europe, as my research just showed.
Here's a list of actually easy plants that should help:
Hornwort* (Ceratophyllum), Egeria/Elodea* (formerly known and still often sold as Anacharis), Anubias barteri (var. nana), Microsorum pteropus, Hydrocotyle leucocephala*, Limnobium laevigatum**
All with a * you can just float. ** is a pure floating plant.

The algae grow fine because there are no/not enough plants to use up the nutrients and you used fertilizers without knowing if they were actually necessary in the first place. The algae basically are what uses up nutrients in you tank instead of higher plants.

Otherwise the water hardness would be helpful to know.

Sounds AWESOME! Thank you! I can’t wait to get started! And I don’t know what to do about Kribs hopefully it’ll work itself out with water changes and all you suggested.

 

[MacZ]

I can't give you a guarantee on the waterchanges, but usually it's the only thing that actually works. Takes a bit of time, but well...

good luck with plants.

 

[KribensisLover1]

I can't give you a guarantee on the waterchanges, but usually it's the only thing that actually works. Takes a bit of time, but well...

good luck with plants.

Sorry and thank you. One last thing. How often for wcs. I tend to empty out a lot and I know it stresses them Bc the ornaments fall and it’s a mess. So should I be doing like 1/3 every other day? Or 50 percent daily? Or what? I’ll do what you say to a T.

 

[MacZ]

Erm... I wrote that a few days ago:
50% every other day for a week, then 2x a week 50% for 2 weeks and then stick to 50% weekly. By the time you are down to 50% weekly the symptoms should have cleared up. If not, reevaluate.
And feed less and no more bloodworms.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Erm... I wrote that a few days ago:
50% every other day for a week, then 2x a week 50% for 2 weeks and then stick to 50% weekly. By the time you are down to 50% weekly the symptoms should have cleared up. If not, reevaluate.
And feed less and no more bloodworms.

Okay sounds perfect. LAST THING—can I just suck water out today and not vacuum? The vacuuming is what gets messy AND what causes me to change like 80 percent Bc it kicks up a lot of nasty stuff from the sand so I’m inadvertently emptying the entire tank trying to vacuum. So can I just put the python at the top and suck out half?

 

[MacZ]

Sure. Why should you have to vacuum just because you siphon off water? Just 50% out, 50% back in. Done.

Edit: I'd rethink my technique for vacuuming, though, if you stir a lot up. That should usually not happen.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Sure. Why should you have to vacuum just because you siphon off water? Just 50% out, 50% back in. Done.

Edit: I'd rethink my technique for vacuuming, though, if you stir a lot up. That should usually not happen.

Ugh well what happens is I move the ornaments Bc that’s where all the crud collects under. Then when I move them BACK they kick up sand and I don’t vacuum deep into the sand I only do surface. I would suck up all the sand if I tried to go deep

Sure. Why should you have to vacuum just because you siphon off water? Just 50% out, 50% back in. Done.

Edit: I'd rethink my technique for vacuuming, though, if you stir a lot up. That should usually not happen.

And THANK YOU!

 

[MacZ]

Don't move the decoration. Just leave it be. What you remove is the type of detritus that turns into extra beneficial bacteria. Just hover around them. Don't go into the sand, there is beneficial bacteria, too.

I know, for many people it's hard as they think either everything has to be cleaned up or it's as good as doing nothing. Learn to embrace cutting such corners. Only poke into the sand with a chopstick from time to time to release possible gas bubbles.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Don't move the decoration. Just leave it be. What you remove is the type of detritus that turns into extra beneficial bacteria. Just hover around them. Don't go into the sand, there is beneficial bacteria, too.

I know, for many people it's hard as they think either everything has to be cleaned up or it's as good as doing nothing. Learn to embrace cutting such corners. Only poke into the sand with a chopstick from time to time to release possible gas bubbles.

Woah woah woah. . No way. So in my show tank with fairly fine BDBS (I think 20 grain) I used to suck up so much sand. It’s Bc I would do weekly changes and it’s low stocking so I was searching for a mess that wasn’t there. Until I waited 10 days, I didn’t realize I should be able to suck up the mess by being just above the sand surface.
In this tank, I have fluorite black sand. It’s very clay like and greyish, so it’s hard to discern what’s the dust kicking up, and what’s . However, even still, I get high amounts of poop and stuff under the little grassy area (see pics—though I’ve just cleaned so there isn’t crud, that’s where it builds up) & around the ornaments etc etc. I assumed this tank was much tougher to clean Bc of higher stocking and am just realizing it’s also the substrates that differ. With bdbs it’s perfect black so it’s easier to tell. Anyway, I thought I was supposed to pick up each ornament & move it (which I don’t do often) or at LEAST to go around each one very very close up (so even if I don’t pick it up I DEF DEF move every plant and ornament over a few inches every single time) to get all the visible and invisible (so under the ornaments) build up. And I have a lot of fake plants and ornaments. I read a bit ago on this site how somebody was worried they would crash their cycle by moving a long term structure in the tank, which never occurred to me. I barely move this large log but last change (before today) I redecorated so I did move it. That’s why I had to empty and fill, then empty and fill AGAIN, and I would have done it a third time except I ran out of hot water! Bc when I move the ornaments back (even a tiny bit like putting a moss ball back) the sand dusts up and more crud is visible. WHO KNEW I WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE MOVING THINGS! So seriously, this fake grass as an example, instead of sticking the python directly into the grass to suck up the poo I should go gently around the sides?!! This seems silly I know, but if I’m going lightly around the sides, should the python be about half an inch above the sand like I’ve been doing, or say further up (like 5” away?). I can’t believe I shouldn’t be moving stuff. This is AWESOME!!!!! I’ve only been at this a year and a few months. I’m SO blown away and SUPER pumped Bc I can’t suck up all the mess Bc the python is too fast to get to it all in one go (without emptying the tank to at least 80%)!! You’ve seriously blown my mind in the best way possible. I don’t have ANY other resources besides this site so I never have watched anybody change water so I had no idea. Thank you so so so so much and I apologize for all of the questions.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Erm... I wrote that a few days ago:
50% every other day for a week, then 2x a week 50% for 2 weeks and then stick to 50% weekly. By the time you are down to 50% weekly the symptoms should have cleared up. If not, reevaluate.
And feed less and no more bloodworms.

Yes you did! The first thing you said, I believe (the schedules, and you’ve rec if many times!) so I’m sorry! I just also had been doing stuff that stresses them anyway (like the baths which I’ve stopped once you said to) snd my water changes stress them a ton so I wanted to confirm. I assumed EVERYBODIES water changes stressed their fishes Bc ornaments are flying everywhere etc etc. now I know better!

 

[MacZ]

Well, take a good look here. I am running a blackwater biotope. Meaning things are to accumulate.
On the first pic you can see, I just put layer upon layer of leaves. The freshest leaves are in for almost 2 weeks now and are layer number 4.

Here on the second: Biofilm on the botanicals, just detritus on the sand. My Apistogramma likes to chew sand, so it always is kept moving where it actually shows.

Here the full view a few days ago. As you can see: Just 4 fish, this surely makes a difference. But thanks to the rotting plant material the bottom is full of "good detritus" with a lot of microorganisms that quickly break down poop and leftover food. Well, but as I only feed small amounts every other day there is rarely leftover food and the apisto forages for leftovers on the ground for hours after a feeding. And yes, you heard that right: only every other day and alternating dry and frozen foods with some variety each.


Edit:
Now for your tank you definitely have to cut down feeding and keep siphoning from above the sand. With time you will know were the stuff accumulates and vacuuming will become a matter of seconds. Oh and only use the hose. No attachments. Much easier. And faster. That you should keep up. Your type of setup is largely different from mine. Meaning some detritus is good, but you can't just let all of it be. Some will still not be a bad thing.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Well, take a good look here. I am running a blackwater biotope. Meaning things are to accumulate.
On the first pic you can see, I just put layer upon layer of leaves. The freshest leaves are in for almost 2 weeks now and are layer number 4.
View attachment 743373
Here on the second: Biofilm on the botanicals, just detritus on the sand. My Apistogramma likes to chew sand, so it always is kept moving where it actually shows.
View attachment 743374
Here the full view a few days ago. As you can see: Just 4 fish, this surely makes a difference. But thanks to the rotting plant material the bottom is full of "good detritus" with a lot of microorganisms that quickly break down poop and leftover food. Well, but as I only feed small amounts every other day there is rarely leftover food and the apisto forages for leftovers on the ground for hours after a feeding. And yes, you heard that right: only every other day and alternating dry and frozen foods with some variety each.
View attachment 743375

Edit:
Now for your tank you definitely have to cut down feeding and keep siphoning from above the sand. With time you will know were the stuff accumulates and vacuuming will become a matter of seconds. Oh and only use the hose. No attachments. Much easier. And faster. That you should keep up. Your type of setup is largely different from mine. Meaning some detritus is good, but you can't just let all of it be. Some will still not be a bad thing.

Thank you! So awesome! My fish at home I barely feed but these are younger so I thought....now I know! When you say no attachments do you mean no tube at the end? I circled what I mean. Just use the tiny end of hose? I’ve done that before BUT then you can’t turn the water off so I did it only for emptying. I’m sorry but this is mindblowing. I HOPE NEW AND OLD FISHKEEPERS READ THIS BC ITS LIFE CHANGING.

 

[MacZ]

Yes, that piece of tube is not necessary for a simple waterchange.
Please excuse my laughing.

I use a 1.5m piece of hose with a ballpump-suction starter and a piece of smaller hose put inside the other hose at the end. Lowtech AND saving drinking water. Pythons are to me mindblowingly wasteful.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Yes, that piece of tube is not necessary for a simple waterchange.
Please excuse my laughing.

I use a 1.5m piece of hose with a ballpump-suction starter and a piece of smaller hose put inside the other hose at the end. Lowtech AND saving drinking water. Pythons are to me mindblowingly wasteful.

View attachment 743569

By the way I totally forgot to say your tank is AWESOME! I love the black water and the set up is stunning! And yes I have one of those (above, the self vac) and I flood the floor every single time!

 

[MacZ]

By the way I totally forgot to say your tank is AWESOME! I love the black water and the set up is stunning! And yes I have one of those (above, the self vac) and I flood the floor every single time!

Thanks, I'm not very happy with it lately because 1-2 things won't work out as I hoped. Still working on the balance of botanicals and live plants. The tank is a little high, which makes it hard for many plants to grow in except the Egeria.

I never flooded my floor. But that's a matter of adaption. I was just careful from the beginning.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Thanks, I'm not very happy with it lately because 1-2 things won't work out as I hoped. Still working on the balance of botanicals and live plants. The tank is a little high, which makes it hard for many plants to grow in except the Egeria.

I never flooded my floor. But that's a matter of adaption. I was just careful from the beginning.

What is the tank size?

 

[MacZ]

What is the tank size?

Look in my signature. This here is your thread.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Look in my signature. This here is your thread.

Awww you’re so kind! I love hearing from those who know what they’re doing, though. Bc it exposes me to stuff I never would have known about. The fish stores within an hour of me wouldn’t have a black water biotope!
Also, I’ve been doing water changes as you recommended. The male who had red cheeks doesn’t anymore and has colored up and is territorial again! I don’t see him as much as I used to which isn’t great but when I do he’s much improved tho def not all better.
however this one has gotten sicker. I ordered clove oil to come fri. This is def dropsy right? And can you tell what the real reason for the dropsy symptoms is from the distended anal area?

 

[KribensisLover1]

So MacZ an update. Another Krib passed. I have pics I can post later. And of the 6 other Kribs, one is quite ill, and only one of the rest ate. I think another is somewhat ill. The two sickest and the one who passed didn’t have red cheeks, yet the male who appeared a little better (the one I gave salt baths to last week) has very red cheeks again. Only the males who have been sick (this guy and when baby who passed) have had red cheeks, the females stay yellow.
So I’m thinking I’m going to lose more and more Kribs. Which brings me to another MAJOR worry. So my black Angel has very odd white spotting on the right side of her head only. I’ve included pics pointing it out. I also have pics of the left side of her body so you can see she has bizarre coloring to begin with (and isn’t winning any beauty contests) lol. The angels are readying for first spawn based on tubes and behaviors. just today, the male has begun chasing the female (not very nicely), yet I believe that’s par for the course, and they are swimming very closely Together like in tandem. I only include that info in case it’s pertinent. I really don’t want to lose my entire tank ESP Bc I have no clue what it is so I’m watching them get sick and slowly die!

pls pls assist. You already have, so much, and I wouldn’t bother you with this Bc I’m sure you’re sick of me, yet I have nobody else I can ask except Petco. Who will tell me to overmedicate with 10 diff things hoping it will work. And then happily selling me replacement fishes if I wanted them (which I do not). Thank you so so so so much

 

[A201]

Looks like the pictured black Angel has HITH / Hexamita. It's quite common in Angel's, Oscar's & Discus.
It's difficult to determine the cause of the infection, but unsatisfactory water conditions & vitamin deficiency has been noted as possible underlying causes.
Research on line for medicated food. Up the WC's & maybe change up the food.
As far as I know, Kribs are not immune from Hexamita. The mystery might be solved.

 

[MacZ]

So MacZ an update. Another Krib passed. I have pics I can post later. And of the 6 other Kribs, one is quite ill, and only one of the rest ate. I think another is somewhat ill. The two sickest and the one who passed didn’t have red cheeks, yet the male who appeared a little better (the one I gave salt baths to last week) has very red cheeks again. Only the males who have been sick (this guy and when baby who passed) have had red cheeks, the females stay yellow.
So I’m thinking I’m going to lose more and more Kribs. Which brings me to another MAJOR worry. So my black Angel has very odd white spotting on the right side of her head only. I’ve included pics pointing it out. I also have pics of the left side of her body so you can see she has bizarre coloring to begin with (and isn’t winning any beauty contests) lol. The angels are readying for first spawn based on tubes and behaviors. just today, the male has begun chasing the female (not very nicely), yet I believe that’s par for the course, and they are swimming very closely Together like in tandem. I only include that info in case it’s pertinent. I really don’t want to lose my entire tank ESP Bc I have no clue what it is so I’m watching them get sick and slowly die!

pls pls assist. You already have, so much, and I wouldn’t bother you with this Bc I’m sure you’re sick of me, yet I have nobody else I can ask except Petco. Who will tell me to overmedicate with 10 diff things hoping it will work. And then happily selling me replacement fishes if I wanted them (which I do not). Thank you so so so so much

You don't have to tag me. There are others - obviously - here. And when it comes to angels most have more experience than I do, because I haven't had angels myself.
I agree with A201 mostly, though it could also just be an injury. Maybe open a new thread for the Angels, because this is not the same problem as with the kribs. And don't forget to use the template.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Thank you both. Wow. Isn’t that HIH? I’m screwed

Looks like the pictured black Angel has HITH / Hexamita. It's quite common in Angel's, Oscar's & Discus.
It's difficult to determine the cause of the infection, but unsatisfactory water conditions & vitamin deficiency has been noted as possible underlying causes.
Research on line for medicated food. Up the WC's & maybe change up the food.
As far as I know, Kribs are not immune from Hexamita. The mystery might be solved.

Okay so I happen to HAVE metronidazole already from when I was prescribed it and didn’t need it so didn’t take it. What treatment would you recommend, or if it is an injury as Mac said, should I wait and see if the Angel stops eating or starts gasping etc? Here’s a pic of the krib who died yesterday to see if that helps to determine if he had HIH. I have no clue what to look for so thank you for the help!

 

[A201]

Be a good idea to treat the Angel with Metro. Follow directions on the med. Not outward sign of Hexamita on the krib. Is the bloating post mortem or did the Krib look like that alive.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Be a good idea to treat the Angel with Metro. Follow directions on the med. Not outward sign of Hexamita on the krib. Is the bloating post mortem or did the Krib look like that alive.

He looked like that alive. Dropsy. Second to pass. They get sick and a week later they die. I have another close to death. Was doing salt baths and then Mac said that stresses them so am now doing water changes much more often. I also recently put a new cave in there, a fake vase, about three weeks ago, and I’m worried that’s leeching something so I just removed it. I’m truly at a loss

 

[MacZ]

So the waterchanges haven't taken effect. How much and how often did you do?

 

[KribensisLover1]

So the waterchanges haven't taken effect. How much and how often did you do?

I did the large change (empty, fill, empty, fill) Monday 11/9. Then I didn’t do again until after posting and that was 50% just water change Fri 11/13, then 50% just water Sunday 11/15 and then light vacuum 75% Wed 11/18. And I’ll do tomorrow. EEK I felt like I was doing it more than that! I did my other tank at my parents house on Tuesday, not the one here. Shoot. Not enough on this tank? Yesterday’s change was a few hours BEFORE the fish died. And I removed the possible offending vase today. I am itching to do a change today, yet forcing myself to wait until tomorrow. The large vase/cave is truly the only issue I can imagine, Bc yes I added a filter and used new sponges, but I staggered those and my water parameters got better, never worse. Now MacZ told me that even with a beneficial change (like an additional filter) issues can arise, yet it’s been weeks since I added the second filter with no change but this new huge vase/cave. And I’ve raised these Kribs from fry last Dec/Jan, in an old (smaller) tank, and then in this newer one since March, with almost no issues. I DID have one die months back (I believe from bullying), and I had a new baby born in July (who was the first to go a week or so ago from this sickness). But, In other words, I’ve had these Kribs raised in my tanks and in this tank specifically since March without an issue with any fish EVER, save the one krib months ago.

ALSO! I looked at the Angelfish. I thought it was coloration But now I think it’s a small divot. Her behavior is great but I’m worried.

 

[KribensisLover1]

holy heck

MacZ sorry to tag you again this will be the last time but you are A GENIUS. Remember I added new carbon and you said to take it out?

well look!

 

[MacZ]

Is that the article on "Hole in the head"-disease? I remember vaguely having read that a while ago. Just one more thing on the list of reasons activated carbon should only be used in certain situations.

I did the large change (empty, fill, empty, fill) Monday 11/9. Then I didn’t do again until after posting and that was 50% just water change Fri 11/13, then 50% just water Sunday 11/15 and then light vacuum 75% Wed 11/18. And I’ll do tomorrow. EEK I felt like I was doing it more than that! I did my other tank at my parents house on Tuesday, not the one here. Shoot. Not enough on this tank? Yesterday’s change was a few hours BEFORE the fish died. And I removed the possible offending vase today. I am itching to do a change today, yet forcing myself to wait until tomorrow. The large vase/cave is truly the only issue I can imagine, Bc yes I added a filter and used new sponges, but I staggered those and my water parameters got better, never worse. Now MacZ told me that even with a beneficial change (like an additional filter) issues can arise, yet it’s been weeks since I added the second filter with no change but this new huge vase/cave. And I’ve raised these Kribs from fry last Dec/Jan, in an old (smaller) tank, and then in this newer one since March, with almost no issues. I DID have one die months back (I believe from bullying), and I had a new baby born in July (who was the first to go a week or so ago from this sickness). But, In other words, I’ve had these Kribs raised in my tanks and in this tank specifically since March without an issue with any fish EVER, save the one krib months ago.

Hmm... I mean keeping up optimal water quality is not bad, so just go to a 50%/week schedule.
As I mentioned, the new filter (and dividing filtier media) might have caused an imbalance in bacteria populations. That in turn could be the cause of the infections the kribs have.

A final answer might be impossible to get.

I'd ask AvalancheDave or RayClem for advise on the necessity of an actually effective medication treatment if there is still no betterment on the kribs in a few days.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Is that the article on "Hole in the head"-disease? I remember vaguely having read that a while ago. Just one more thing on the list of reasons activated carbon should only be used in certain situations.



Hmm... I mean keeping up optimal water quality is not bad, so just go to a 50%/week schedule.
As I mentioned, the new filter (and dividing filtier media) might have caused an imbalance in bacteria populations. That in turn could be the cause of the infections the kribs have.

A final answer might be impossible to get.

I'd ask AvalancheDave or RayClem for advise on the necessity of an actually effective medication treatment if there is still no betterment on the kribs in a few days.

Thank you. It’s so crazy. The male looks awful again and salt baths did help a ton so I gave him one. So bizarre that on one side his cheek is like BRIGHT krib pink and not on the other?

 

[AvalancheDave]

The treatment for dropsy is simple. Stop using any liquid carbon/liquid CO2 products that contain glutaraldehyde or claim to contain a "safe" version of it.

If you're not using any of those, treat with ciprofloxacin.

If that doesn't work, see a vet.

 

[RayClem]

Okay sounds perfect. LAST THING—can I just suck water out today and not vacuum? The vacuuming is what gets messy AND what causes me to change like 80 percent Bc it kicks up a lot of nasty stuff from the sand so I’m inadvertently emptying the entire tank trying to vacuum. So can I just put the python at the top and suck out half?

If vacuuming the sand kicks up lots of nasty stuff, it says that your sand has trapped a lot of fish waste and uneaten food. It is a sign that your routine maintenance efforts have not been sufficient.

You say you feed five days per week, but you also admit to overfeeding. Foods are available in various forms. Flakes float to feed your top feeding tetras. You can also get slow sinking pellets that will reach the bottom feeders. I suggest feeding a combination of foods rather than just one.

Use of chemical and bacterial additives is controversial on the forum (and rightfully so), but you might consider using one of the products that helps clean up sludge. These include products such as API Stress Zyme. Although the product contains bacteria, these are the bacteria that convert fish waste and uneaten food to ammonia rather than the nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. There are other products as well, but this is the one I have used. I have heavily planted tanks, so I cannot vacuum the gravel without uprooting plants. I rely on the bacteria and the plants to keep the gravel clean.

 

[KribensisLover1]

The treatment for dropsy is simple. Stop using any liquid carbon/liquid CO2 products that contain glutaraldehyde or claim to contain a "safe" version of it.

If you're not using any of those, treat with ciprofloxacin.

If that doesn't work, see a vet.

I am not using any of those and removed the carbon from my tank filter. Is Furan by any chance similar to cipro? I have metronidazole (actually prescribed to me and never taken), furan, kanaplex, and melafix. Are any of these correct? I mean common sense says no Bc they aren’t called cipro but when I googled it, Furan came up! Thank you!

 

[RayClem]

I am not using any of those and removed the carbon from my tank filter. Is Furan by any chance similar to cipro? I have metronidazole (actually prescribed to me and never taken), furan, kanaplex, and melafix. Are any of these correct? I mean common sense says no Bc they aren’t called cipro but when I googled it, Furan came up! Thank you!

Ciprofloxacin (aka Cipro) is a broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against many gram positive and gram negative bacteria. It used to be frequently prescribed for humans, but some types of bacteria are now resistant to treatment by Cipro. Cipro and Doxycylcine are still used for treatment of anthrax infections.

There are different classes of antibiotics. Nitrofurans are a different class as is Kanamycin. Depending upon the strain of bacteria causing the infection, one antibiotic might work better than others.

Melafix is not an antibiotic as such. It contains melaleuca oil which is an essential oil known as tea tree oil. It is more of an antiseptic than an antibiotic. As such it can kill some species of bacteria, but I think it works better on external infections that internal.

I have seldom encountered dropsy, so I am not certain which of the antibiotics will work best in your case. Thus, I defer to AvalancheDave on this one.

 

[KribensisLover1]

If vacuuming the sand kicks up lots of nasty stuff, it says that your sand has trapped a lot of fish waste and uneaten food. It is a sign that your routine maintenance efforts have not been sufficient.
You say you feed five days per week, but you also admit to overfeeding. Foods are available in various forms. Flakes float to feed your top feeding tetras. You can also get slow sinking pellets that will reach the bottom feeders. I suggest feeding a combination of foods rather than just one.

Use of chemical and bacterial additives is controversial on the forum (and rightfully so), but you might consider using one of the products that helps clean up sludge. These include products such as API Stress Zyme. Although the product contains bacteria, these are the bacteria that convert fish waste and uneaten food to ammonia rather than the nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. There are other products as well, but this is the one I have used. I have heavily planted tanks, so I cannot vacuum the gravel without uprooting plants. I rely on the bacteria and the plants to keep the gravel clean.

Oh no! I am so surprised about the cleaning. When I clean my understocked tank that has bdbs and I go deep into the sand to clean, I wind up just sucking sand up. Is it possible to clean deep into the flourite black sand and not lose it all? I seem to suck up a lot of that as well. Perhaps I need diff substrate, tho the cichlids love the sand!
So as for food, I should have been clearer. I feed Ken’s spiraling, tetra min plus trop flakes, NLS flakes (though I recently ran out), blood worms and brine shrimp (yet lately very rarely and not since MacZ said not to) and now I’ve added in (which they don’t seem to love pellets in general) but now I’ve added in NLS Thera A plus pellets Bc the garlic could possibly help? And occasionally tropical greens. I vary more than I said.
I DO have stress Zyme and will add it now! I just wonder though—I’ve had the fish in the same set up since they were born almost a year ago. I did upgrade to a larger tank, yet didn’t change the style. So I totally will do what you suggest, I just wonder what’s going on now that all of a sudden they’re so sick? Like SO sick. I had 7 Kribs and only 2 aren’t sick I think. The rest will likely die soon or get to the point where I have to euthanize out of pity. For ex the most aggressive male was not even swimming out of his Hide when I picked it up for a salt bath. I did two last week and they seemed to work and I couldn’t catch him any more so that’s a great sign. Then yesterday his cheeks were super red and again I was able to lift him up in this small ornament. He was always ALL over the tank the boss. The only things I did were to put new carbon in the filter (I had carbon previously I put in in March) and I put in a new ornament that I’ve since removed. I am about to change the water again but I’m at a serious loss and now I’m worried.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Ciprofloxacin (aka Cipro) is a broad-spectrum antibiotic, effective against many gram positive and gram negative bacteria. It used to be frequently prescribed for humans, but some types of bacteria are now resistant to treatment by Cipro. Cipro and Doxycylcine are still used for treatment of anthrax infections.

There are different classes of antibiotics. Nitrofurans are a different class as is Kanamycin. Depending upon the strain of bacteria causing the infection, one antibiotic might work better than others.

Melafix is not an antibiotic as such. It contains melaleuca oil which is an essential oil known as tea tree oil. It is more of an antiseptic than an antibiotic. As such it can kill some species of bacteria, but I think it works better on external infections that internal.

I have seldom encountered dropsy, so I am not certain which of the antibiotics will work best in your case. Thus, I defer to AvalancheDave on this one.

Thank you so very much. Now the Angelfish, esp the black one with potential HIH appears to be gasping (or breathing all the time). Here are pics of her spots, and I see a hole above her mouth that I’ve circled but there are two of them, and looking at old pics, she always had those holes so must be part of breathing functions. However the white spots on side are brand new. I feel like I’m going to lose this entire tank for unknown reasons. Perhaps she has HIH but the Kribs dont. And the 13 red eyes are totally fine as of now.