Random Discussion...

So turns out I did have a nitrite spike after all. I checked up on the evacuated cories this morning and at first I thought they were dead. They were not moving upon tapping the tank and I saw no gill movement either. I poked them with a net and there was minimal and sluggish reaction from about half.
I immediately dosed with methylene blue. Instant effect, they were happily swimming about again a few minutes later. I counted three times to assure myself the swimming group was still complete. Though little buggers.
Popped in a few air stones, I'll have to keep dosing MB for a good week at the very least. Eh. Poor things
Still don't understand where the spike came from.. A PH drop by itself shouldn't kill your bacteria if it is still above 7, right? I can't help but think something happened to my cycle somehow...
But it must have been pretty sudden. There is no way the pandas would have lasted through several days of >2ppm NO2.


Also holy cow. That is some next level camouflage. And here I thought my kuhli's and oto's were hard to find in a well-planted tank. Pst.
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KuhlI loaches don't camouflage, they just outright disappear! sorry to hear about your problems with the tank, though I'm glad your Corys are alright. I just realized the other day how badly I'd neglected my Betta tank these past few weeks, and I feel so terrible about it.
 

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KuhlI loaches don't camouflage, they just outright disappear! sorry to hear about your problems with the tank, though I'm glad your Corys are alright. I just realized the other day how badly I'd neglected my Betta tank these past few weeks, and I feel so terrible about it.
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I hope just neglect that you feel bad about and not the consequences of it?

Edit: Wait, am I mixing you up with someone else or... I didn't recall you had one?
 

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I hope just neglect that you feel bad about and not the consequences of it?
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Oh yeah, the little guy is fine, just the tank is a hot mess.
 
Also holy cow. That is some next level camouflage. And here I thought my kuhli's and oto's were hard to find in a well-planted tank. Pst.
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Definitely it is. There are times they are literally right in front of me and I won't notice. Its always a treat to see them though, not out very often (or I just can't see them).
So turns out I did have a nitrite spike after all. I checked up on the evacuated cories this morning and at first I thought they were dead. They were not moving upon tapping the tank and I saw no gill movement either. I poked them with a net and there was minimal and sluggish reaction from about half.
I immediately dosed with methylene blue. Instant effect, they were happily swimming about again a few minutes later. I counted three times to assure myself the swimming group was still complete. Though little buggers.
Popped in a few air stones, I'll have to keep dosing MB for a good week at the very least. Eh. Poor things
Still don't understand where the spike came from.. A PH drop by itself shouldn't kill your bacteria if it is still above 7, right? I can't help but think something happened to my cycle somehow...
But it must have been pretty sudden. There is no way the pandas would have lasted through several days of >2ppm NO2.
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Yikes. A pH drop that isn't too sharp shouldn't do too much imo. Is it possible a fish died and began to rot? Or food was left over? The filter gets cleaned etc? I haven't ever had a spike thankfully so I wouldn't know all the reasons off the top of my head.
 
Definitely it is. There are times they are literally right in front of me and I won't notice. Its always a treat to see them though, not out very often (or I just can't see them).

Yikes. A pH drop that isn't too sharp shouldn't do too much imo. Is it possible a fish died and began to rot? Or food was left over? The filter gets cleaned etc? I haven't ever had a spike thankfully so I wouldn't know all the reasons off the top of my head.
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Ah, no, this is a tank slowly (keyword slowly) being transitioned to blackwater. The PH dropped about .6/.7 over the course of two weeks (standing at just above 7 now).
The tank was empty aside from the five cories, and I counted them a million times so no dead fish. No gravel in the tank.
I was using leaf litter to drop the PH but they were thoroughly dried and I use them often in nearly all my tanks. Never experienced anything like this.
I also doubt food leftovers for (especially piggy cories) just 5 fish would create a nitrite spike of 2ppm+ in a filled 33G that was properly cycled.

I checked out all the leaves to make sure nothing was rotting there, but everything looks normal. There is 0 zero ammonia...
The only other thing in there is a driftwood branch, but it has been in there for weeks already.
 

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I am procrastinating so hard on tomorrows exam. I decided to do a water change instead of studying.
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Some days I would literally rather excercise and do responsable things than study.
 
Some days I would literally rather excercise and do responsable things than study.
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Not to mention that tomorrows exam will be difficult as it's a lab exam.
 
I am procrastinating so hard on tomorrows exam. I decided to do a water change instead of studying.
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I left an assignment until today. Now I'm cramming and its getting late.... and I have a test the next day - won't be home from college from 6am till 9pm tomorrow so no hope of cramming there. Whoopsie.
Some days I would literally rather excercise and do responsable things than study.
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Exercise good. Unfortunately I miss out on it at times due to work and assignments... but I love it. (exercise not assignments)
 
Fortunately, one of my classes is cancelled for the entire week.
 
Speaking of school, I'm in economics class right now hahaha
Don't worry, we're not learning anything right now. We're watching a documentary because we're ahead in the curriculum.
 

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No HW today!!!

I went to my friends and we planned our halloween route.
 
Ehhh,
I’d rather do a exam than waterchange.
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You only have a 29g! And you want a bigger tank haha! I quite like water changes myself - though I don't do it very efficiently.
 
What is the most you guys would spend on a fish? My most expensive was 50 euro (not too expensive but more than I usually want to spend on a single fish.) But there's a few 2000 euro triggers at my LFS which is crazy.
 
What is the most you guys would spend on a fish? My most expensive was 50 euro (not too expensive but more than I usually want to spend on a single fish.) But there's a few 2000 euro triggers at my LFS which is crazy.
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I have an LFS near me as well that stocks fish going for thousands. And it is not a particular expensive one going by their more 'common' stock's prices.
The most I've paid for a single fish was 25 euros, and it died on me within in a month. Whelp.
Since then I've settled for a max of about 12-15 in an LFS, any higher than that and I search online for juvies or fry from private breeders or be patient and scour rehoming ads.

I'll be going to a convention on Sunday We'll see what I find there.
 
I have an LFS near me as well that stocks fish going for thousands. And it is not a particular expensive one going by their more 'common' stock's prices.
The most I've paid for a single fish was 25 euros, and it died on me within in a month. Whelp.
Since then I've settled for a max of about 12-15 in an LFS, any higher than that and I search online for juvies or fry from private breeders or be patient and scour rehoming ads.
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Ouch. That sucks. Thankfully my more expensive fish have always done well and are still with me. Except my betta but he never was very healthy.
I'll be going to a convention on Sunday We'll see what I find there.
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Nice! Make sure to update us if you decide to get something good.
 
Where is @ni
What is the most you guys would spend on a fish? My most expensive was 50 euro (not too expensive but more than I usually want to spend on a single fish.) But there's a few 2000 euro triggers at my LFS which is crazy.
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The most expensive fish I bought was in my reef tank, but even then it was only $35 for a ruby-headed fairy wrasse. She was worth it. One of the most beautiful fish I had. That and my purple firefish, which I paid about the same for.
The most expensive fish I've bought for freshwater was a pair of millenium rainbows. They would only sell me a pair and it was $50 for the pair. What I really paid for was a nice infestation of camallanus, and a long slow death for those fish.
Other than those two - bettas. I still choke a little when I look at the price for the HMPK Koi, dragonscale, or dumbo bettas at The Big Pet Stores. Or worse, what they charge for a "Platinum" betta that is obviously going to turn black at some point in the near future.
 
What is the most you guys would spend on a fish? My most expensive was 50 euro (not too expensive but more than I usually want to spend on a single fish.) But there's a few 2000 euro triggers at my LFS which is crazy.
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My most expensive fish that I spent would be my altum angels. One cost 75 USD.
 

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What I really paid for was a nice infestation of camallanus, and a long slow death for those fish.
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Ouch >.o

Other than those two - bettas. I still choke a little when I look at the price for the HMPK Koi, dragonscale, or dumbo bettas at The Big Pet Stores. Or worse, what they charge for a "Platinum" betta that is obviously going to turn black at some point in the near future.
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The 25 euros that I paid for my most expensive fish was indeed a HMPK Koi male betta. Imported from Thailand and sold at a specialist LFS for a premium, the type with a non-marbling pattern. I died a little inside when it croaked on me.
To be fair it was neither the shop's nor the fishes' fault. It was the second-to-last victI'm of my mysterious betta death wave. Still thinking it was a virulent bacterial strain picked up either from one of the LFS sorority bettas or a female betta brought from a beginning breeder. Eh.
Still an undeniable fact that I lost zero non-bettas. They are just to fragile for me to spend another 10 euros on a single fish anymore.

I once considered paying almost 30 for an absolutely spectacular apisto, before I realised they are sold for 2-5 euros privately because once the fry grow up, you can't keep too many in a tank and they are pretty easy to raise. So dodged that bullet.
 
I've actually seen altums costing around $105 at the same place where I got mine from.
 
I've actually seen altums costing around $105 at the same place where I got mine from.
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Blown out of the water over here. And I thought discus were in a class of its own, pst.

Funny though, there are soooo many angelfish being rehomed online. Of various species/colours as far as I can see. The problem seems to be people buying groups without considering aggression issues, or undersized tanks, or ...
 
Blown out of the water over here. And I thought discus were in a class of its own, pst.

Funny though, there are soooo many angelfish being rehomed online. Of various species/colours as far as I can see. The problem seems to be people buying groups without considering aggression issues, or undersized tanks, or ...
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The cheapest price that I've seen for wild discus is $100 while the cheapest price I've seen for domestic discus is $30.

From my point of view, angels should be maintained in a group with no less than 5. Sure you might get aggression or breeding, but from my experience and knowledge, they really feel secure in a group. I really hate seeing sites saying that you can keep a single angel in a 30 gallon.
 
The cheapest price that I've seen for wild discus is $100 while the cheapest price I've seen for domestic discus is $30.

From my point of view, angels should be maintained in a group with no less than 5. Sure you might get aggression or breeding, but from my experience and knowledge, they really feel secure in a group. I really hate seeing sites saying that you can keep a single angel in a 30 gallon.
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I kind of got this impression from reading various care sites, that even though some people said they could be kept alone, they really do better in groups. That's actually why I ended up deciding against angelfish, because I wasn't sure if my tank would be big enough for a decent sized group.
 
I kind of got this impression from reading various care sites, that even though some people said they could be kept alone, they really do better in groups. That's actually why I ended up deciding against angelfish, because I wasn't sure if my tank would be big enough for a decent sized group.
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It seems to be true of quite a lot of semi-aggressive and even outright aggressive species that keeping them in sizeable groups helps a lot with social relationships. I don't mean overcrowding methods but just the difference between, say, a group of 3-4 and a group of 5-8. It is true of many gourami that have a tendency to be more aggressive.
I recently encountered an old post on this site of an experienced user keeping a community tank with 7 male(!) paradise fish and a handful of non-gourami tankmates, that was stable and peaceful long-term. It wasn't even in a very large tank (30 or 40G I believe).
I once kept two male sparkling gourami together in a 20 gallon and the dominant one was constantly pounding on the other male and eventually killed it through stress before I noticed how serious it was. Yet maintaining a group of 6 in a 10-15 gallon is not a problem at all.

I have heard this very same dilemma with chocolate gourami. Keep them alone and they do terribly, they need company. But keeping them in a pair or group of three leads to dangerous aggression levels. If you keep upwards of 5 the problem disappears.
 
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What is the most you guys would spend on a fish? My most expensive was 50 euro (not too expensive but more than I usually want to spend on a single fish.) But there's a few 2000 euro triggers at my LFS which is crazy.
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$200 - $300 at most.
My most expensive was only 20 or so.
 
It seems to be true of quite a lot of semi-aggressive and even outright aggressive species that keeping them in sizeable groups helps a lot with social relationships. I don't mean overcrowding methods but just the difference between, say, a group of 3-4 and a group of 5-8. It is true of many gourami that have a tendency to be more aggressive.
I recently encountered an old post on this site of an experienced user keeping a community tank with 7 male(!) paradise fish and a handful of non-gourami tankmates, that was stable and peaceful long-term. It wasn't even in a very large tank (30 or 40G I believe).
I once kept two male sparkling gourami together in a 20 gallon and the dominant one was constantly pounding on the other male and eventually killed it through stress before I noticed how serious it was. Yet maintaining a group of 6 in a 10-15 gallon is not a problem at all.

I have heard this very same dilemma with chocolate gourami. Keep them alone and they do terribly, they need company. But keeping them in a pair or group of three leads to dangerous aggression levels. If you keep upwards of 5 the problem disappears.
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Yeah, I sometimes wonder if the reason certain fish are aggressive is that they are kept in tanks that don't actually have enough room.
 
Yeah, I sometimes wonder if the reason certain fish are aggressive is that they are kept in tanks that don't actually have enough room.
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Or just more generally from frustration at a (to them) unnatural environment. Like having absolutely no conspecifics to interact with. Or to not be able to flee/hide under/in the kind of structures they expect to find.
My betta sorority has a very thick layer of long-rooted salvinia and pistia floating at the top. Nearly all of my girls hang out and sleep in the roots when they are not swimming about. They seem to prefer hanging out near the surface way more than on the bottom. Which I guess betta hammocks are made for, but the thick roots not only allow them to rest near the surface but to actually have hides there. From each other as well, any betta sleeping there is completely hidden from the line of sight by the roots.
It is different for river and lake fish, naturally, but given that many popular fish in the hobby hail from shallow ditches, brooks and streams I wonder how stressful it is for them to be in an environment without surface cover. About 95% of betta keepers I've seen online does not provide floating anything for the fish to hide under. I've gotten to the point where I now include a handful of floaters in my QT tanks because I've noticed any fish that does have them hangs out under them near constantly.
... like one of my poor males taking this so far he tries to hide his bright blue and red visage under three microscopic bits of duckweed and would swim to stay under them as I filled the tank during a water change. Yet he doesn't have a shy personality at all. It is just instinct to them.
 
Or just more generally from frustration at a (to them) unnatural environment. Like having absolutely no conspecifics to interact with. Or to not be able to flee/hide under/in the kind of structures they expect to find.
My betta sorority has a very thick layer of long-rooted salvinia and pistia floating at the top. Nearly all of my girls hang out and sleep in the roots when they are not swimming about. They seem to prefer hanging out near the surface way more than on the bottom. Which I guess betta hammocks are made for, but the thick roots not only allow them to rest near the surface but to actually have hides there. From each other as well, any betta sleeping there is completely hidden from the line of sight by the roots.
It is different for river and lake fish, naturally, but given that many popular fish in the hobby hail from shallow ditches, brooks and streams I wonder how stressful it is for them to be in an environment without surface cover. About 95% of betta keepers I've seen online does not provide floating anything for the fish to hide under. I've gotten to the point where I now include a handful of floaters in my QT tanks because I've noticed any fish that does have them hangs out under them near constantly.
... like one of my poor males taking this so far he tries to hide his bright blue and red visage under three microscopic bits of duckweed and would swim to stay under them as I filled the tank during a water change. Yet he doesn't have a shy personality at all. It is just instinct to them.
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Yeah, I long ago gave up on the idea of a bare quarantine tank. My fish are so much better off, and I've had pretty much no issues since then. And one of my favorite decorations in my Betta tank is an Anubis plant tied to a tall rock that nearly reaches out of the water. It looks awesome and my Betta loves to sleep on and play around it.
 

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Most expensive fish was my CPDs, it was almost my ram. Ram was 7 USD and CPDs where 6.89 USD and last time I got the rest of the group they raised the price on me!!! 7.89 USD. but good news is that they had a sale and I got 2 free from the group of 6 I got.

Most expensive fish I have saw at my LFS was vampire pleco, 98 USD
 
Most expensive fish was my CPDs, it was almost my ram. Ram was 7 USD and CPDs where 6.89 USD and last time I got the rest of the group they raised the price on me!!! 7.89 USD. but good news is that they had a sale and I got 2 free from the group of 6 I got.

Most expensive fish I have saw at my LFS was vampire pleco, 98 USD
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I think my most expensive had to be my Otto's, but not because they actually cost a lot, but because I had to pay like sixty dollars in shipping.
 
Most expensive fish was my CPDs, it was almost my ram. Ram was 7 USD and CPDs where 6.89 USD and last time I got the rest of the group they raised the price on me!!! 7.89 USD. but good news is that they had a sale and I got 2 free from the group of 6 I got.

Most expensive fish I have saw at my LFS was vampire pleco, 98 USD
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I'm glad for you that they gave you a couple free! Crazy how much those tiny schooling fish cost. They aren't super cheap over here but it is not that crazy fortunately.

I think my most expensive had to be my Otto's, but not because they actually cost a lot, but because I had to pay like sixty dollars in shipping.
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What o.o They don't sell oto's near you?
 
I'm glad for you that they gave you a couple free! Crazy how much those tiny schooling fish cost. They aren't super cheap over here but it is not that crazy fortunately.


What o.o They don't sell oto's near you?
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The only place near me that sells fish other than Petco and PetSmart had a bunch of dead and sick fish in their tanks. The ones I bought all died, so I get all my fish online now. I have found a place with much cheaper shipping, that's been just as good, but they didn't have any Otos at the time.
 
Shrimp here are very expensive too. I used to be into shrimp almost as much as rams. I had to give my two tanks full to bursting with them away, now its hard to get back into them as they are 10 euro each. 50 euro for 5..... and I usually start off with 10 to make sure I get a few females and males. 100 euro for that many shrimp..... Atm I just have my vampire, amanos and some crystals I got for free. But doesn't look like I'll have my neos again for quite some time
 
The only place near me that sells fish other than Petco and PetSmart had a bunch of dead and sick fish in their tanks. The ones I bought all died, so I get all my fish online now. I have found a place with much cheaper shipping, that's been just as good, but they didn't have any Otos at the time.
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Ah, I see.
I almost dare not ask, but what did you pay for shipping?

Shrimp here are very expensive too. I used to be into shrimp almost as much as rams. I had to give my two tanks full to bursting with them away, now its hard to get back into them as they are 10 euro each. 50 euro for 5..... and I usually start off with 10 to make sure I get a few females and males. 100 euro for that many shrimp..... Atm I just have my vampire, amanos and some crystals I got for free. But doesn't look like I'll have my neos again for quite some time
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what? Neocaridina? That is ridiculously overpriced.
Edit: Actually how come you got rid of them?


... I feel like I live in new york compared to all of you. Bless the flat, non-highrise urban jungle called the Netherlands and its high density of everything. Sometimes I hate it but it is terrific for hobby-related stuff.
 
Oh my goodness. I just took my biology lab exam today and it was intense. The exam was difficult and to make things even worse, we had a lab assistant. This lab assistant did was walk around the room looking at us and our every moves like a hawk. This really make me feel uncomfortable and I was confused as to why she was there in first place (most likely the professor hired her for this). Not to mention that she scared me and one of my peers during the testing. We were working on the same station and out of nowhere she slammed real hard on the table and tell us to go in a different station. Scary experience.
 
Shrimp here are very expensive too. I used to be into shrimp almost as much as rams. I had to give my two tanks full to bursting with them away, now its hard to get back into them as they are 10 euro each. 50 euro for 5..... and I usually start off with 10 to make sure I get a few females and males. 100 euro for that many shrimp..... Atm I just have my vampire, amanos and some crystals I got for free. But doesn't look like I'll have my neos again for quite some time
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Ouch, and I thought 3 dollars a piece for Amanos was expensive!
 
Ah, I see.
I almost dare not ask, but what did you pay for shipping?


what? Neocaridina? That is ridiculously overpriced.
Edit: Actually how come you got rid of them?


... I feel like I live in new york compared to all of you. Bless the flat, non-highrise urban jungle called the Netherlands and its high density of everything. Sometimes I hate it but it is terrific for hobby-related stuff.
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If I remember correctly, it was like sixty dollars. I think I paid more for the shipping than I did for the fish.
 
Ah, I see.
I almost dare not ask, but what did you pay for shipping?


what? Neocaridina? That is ridiculously overpriced.
Edit: Actually how come you got rid of them?
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Definitely it is. My LFS doesn't have cherries though - they would be more reasonable. They have blue dreams, blue jelly, yellow and orange. Occationally some green, black and a few others. Still far too expensive.
Before joining Fishlore I moved house and had to get rid of all my tanks but one. Helped curb my MTS, but lost lots of hard work in those shrimp tanks.
... I feel like I live in new york compared to all of you. Bless the flat, non-highrise urban jungle called the Netherlands and its high density of everything. Sometimes I hate it but it is terrific for hobby-related stuff.
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Most things here are more reasonable I feel. Just sucks about the shrimp.
Ouch, and I thought 3 dollars a piece for Amanos was expensive!
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Amanos are "only" five euro here which is why I primarily have them. I love them though.
 

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Neocardina shrimp here? ha ha ha ha ha

not that bad 6 USD plus some change here.
 
Everyone, wished me luck on my lab exam over what I overcome today.
 
Definitely it is. My LFS doesn't have cherries though - they would be more reasonable. They have blue dreams, blue jelly, yellow and orange. Occationally some green, black and a few others. Still far too expensive.
Before joining Fishlore I moved house and had to get rid of all my tanks but one. Helped curb my MTS, but lost lots of hard work in those shrimp tanks.
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I see, makes more sense if they have fancy colour morphs. Still though, 10 bucks for a single shrimp... can't imagine actually paying that.

That certainly helps! Though indeed sad about all your work. Now I am curious though, it is a lasting solution for MTS or is your tank count creeping up again (or lack of space?)?
 
I see, makes more sense if they have fancy colour morphs. Still though, 10 bucks for a single shrimp... can't imagine actually paying that.
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I have actually spent 18 pounds on one shrimp (not euro as I bought it up North). This was my vampire. The biggest I've ever seen - that was worth it imo. I'm considering buying another despite the price. Not going to bother spending it on neos though.
That certainly helps! Though indeed sad about all your work. Now I am curious though, it is a lasting solution for MTS or is your tank count creeping up again (or lack of space?)?
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It lasted as I only have two tanks atm, but at the same time it didn't. I was left with a 90l (24g). After about 2 weeks I got my 53g and sold the 24. After a month I got a 6 gallon and two 5.5g. Both 5.5 cracked so I don't have them anymore. So just two tanks atm. Though I have been eyeing a 100+...... Not sure if I want an oscar/bichir tank or reptiles now though. Likely won't get anything for quite some time. College is keeping me too busy - that is the real way to kick MTS in the butt.

The lack of tanks isn't really to do with lack of space - I just couldn't move all my tanks. As said above, I still have the MTS sickness. It never really goes....
 
Though I have been eyeing a 100+...... Not sure if I want an oscar/bichir tank or reptiles now though. Likely won't get anything for quite some time. College is keeping me too busy - that is the real way to kick MTS in the butt.
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Not sure if a 100+ gallon is better or worse than 5x a 20 gallon
 
Better. Single tank whereas 5x 20 gallons gives you such creative ideas and other MTS symptoms.
 
Not sure if a 100+ gallon is better or worse than 5x a 20 gallon
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With 5 tanks you need 5 siphons, buckets and so on to avoid cross contamination (hopefully anyway.) So I'd rather the 100+. Only if I had a python though. Carrying bins of tank water from my 53g is bad enough. Plus all I really need now is an oscar and my initial list of dream fish will be complete. Then I just need saltwater. Then it'll be another thing that I need of course - its how things go.
 

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