Jmaldo's Discus Build

[mbkemp]

I hope they settle for you!!

 

[Thedudeiam94]

How are they doing today?

 

[coralbandit]

I get what I assume are diatoms in a couple tanks ? Probably really more a lighting issue but I use same light all around ? Not a big concern but it looks rough to someone who wouldn't know water was clean ..It helps with the sudden lights on shock actually IMO !
I have other lights turn on in fish room before the tank light so it really is a more natural sunrise/ramp up ..
FACT in the summer when I sit at Wells Beach Maine and watch the sunrise from below the ocean it takes no more then 4 minutes from 0 to full up !
I was blown away when I really timed it ..

 

[Wraithen]

I get what I assume are diatoms in a couple tanks ? Probably really more a lighting issue but I use same light all around ? Not a big concern but it looks rough to someone who wouldn't know water was clean ..It helps with the sudden lights on shock actually IMO !
I have other lights turn on in fish room before the tank light so it really is a more natural sunrise/ramp up ..
FACT in the summer when I sit at Wells Beach Maine and watch the sunrise from below the ocean it takes no more then 4 minutes from 0 to full up !
I was blown away when I really timed it ..

Yeah, those ridiculous sunrise and sunset features always seemed silly to me. You do have gradual increase in light from about an hour before sunrise to dawn twilight, but after that, it's a rapidly accelerating light. That 2 hour gentle sunrise isn't doing much for you lol.

 

[jmaldo]

How are they doing today?

Doing fine. Little by Little,I guess I just have to be patient. They have been through alot.
Here is a pic of them and me chillin last night.

 

[nikm128]

Lol, the one in front of the potted plant, a little to the left, has a "fight me punk" look

 

[jmaldo]

Just realized it has been 4 weeks. Time flies when having fun, tank leak and all.
They are still cautious and run and hide when I approach. But I guess it should be expected after their journey.
I have noticed they are not crazy about the flow created by the spray bar. So I have made some modifications. Now its feedings, water changes, watching them grow along with "Patience".

 

[jmaldo]

OK, "Discus Gang" 86 ssinit Thedudeiam94 coralbandit nikm128 and anyone else Nicoh fa4960
They are still somewhat shy, skittish and run and hide together when I approach the tank. Little by little it appears to be getting better. I am seeing a pecking order developing and possibly some pairing.
My only concern is the runt of the litter is chased by everyone. It will find a place to hide and rest but one of the others will find it and chase. I am thinking about moving it to another tank? But with the tank leak and move and the change in their behavior, I am hesitant? Any suggestions?

 

[Thedudeiam94]

I would leave it alone for the next week and give t a chance to establish itself in the “pack” again. I wouldn’t move him being that he was just in a dark bucket for 8 days and now everyone can see each other so things have changed drastically in the last few days. Just keep an eye on them and make sure that they are not damaging his fins or anything like that. Hopefully things begin to settle down soon!

 

[86 ssinit]

As long as his fins are open and he’s not black in color he’s alright. But because of the chasing the stress will get to him. The diamonds never show the stress bars? Mine don’t. I think it was bred out of them. So when there stressed they get dark in color.
Thing I learned is when you move them the pecking order changes. When I moved my dirty guys I moved the last pair first. They were getting the most abuse. I left them in the new tank by themselves for a day before adding the other 4 and everything changed. No more aggression no pecking order. So if your runt is still getting abused I would move him and another into a qt tank for a few days. Get him eating and than put them back with the group. I say 2 fish because as the one fish eats the runt will follow. Of course pick the least aggressive fish from the group to go with him.

 

[coralbandit]

My experience with runts/least dominant is they are quickly replaced ..It is not worth removing them IME .
Sometimes is gets worse or reintroduction becomes more difficult if not impossible .
If you are feeding any freeze dried food that you stick to the glass then they know you are food ..
I would start holding food so they come to you even if it takes a while for them to catch on ?
I think mine must have been hand fed or something ? The one looks at me like looking for me and eats from hand like we were friends..This is 3 days later for me ..
I know they are special fish ,but they are not soft ..Many people are nervous with my rams ..I tell them to do what you do for your fish and don't baby them !
I move my hand from fish to fish so my one with largest eyes [stunted ?] or the one chased the most gets the food put right in their face !
Some still retreat but it only takes one to have interest to get the group stirred ...

 

[jmaldo]

Thanks Guys!
The runt is eating not a problem there. It is just the constant chasing from the other 7. Without a doubt it is stressed, it is darker than the rest of the pack. I will keep them together for now and see what happens. Hopefully they will eventually settle back in. Going to give the hand feeding a try.

 

[jmaldo]

As most of you know, since my tank leak the Discus have been very skittish and run/hide. They are settling in again little by little. So, yesterday I noticed my lights turned off at 4pm. What? It then dawned on me, I have the light schedule still set for the Plants from my previous build.
:bangheaduh! So I am wondering if the lights turning off are reminding them of the time they were in the dark/black 45g water conditioning holding container?
Just curious, what lighting schedule do you guys use?

 

[coralbandit]

My fish room lights turn on at 5 am and off at 10 pm !
Lights on every tank just like that !

 

[DioAquatics]

My fish room lights turn on at 5 am and off at 10 pm !
Lights on every tank just like that !

You keep the lights on the entire time?

 

[coralbandit]

You keep the lights on the entire time?

YUP !
Rich couldn't believe it either when I told him.
There are some days they are awake [ in light] longer then me [I go to bed early] but for the most part I like to be able to go in my room anytime I am awake !

 

[DioAquatics]

YUP !
Rich couldn't believe it either when I told him.
There are some days they are awake [ in light] longer then me [I go to bed early] but for the most part I like to be able to go in my room anytime I am awake !

That's incredible!
I might just try that when I get my lights for the fishroom lol. I have the same mentality so it could very possibly be a thing for my fishroom

 

[86 ssinit]

All my tanks are 24/7 lights set on that setting. I like these lights. There’s allways some bit of light in the tanks. Me plants and fish like these lights .

 

[jmaldo]

Update, well they are getting better, At least they are not running and hiding and even watch me at the glass now. Yeah! Still want to try the hand feeding, but "Patience" they have been through alot.
Also, got them some tankmates, wanted something have not kept before so picked up Silver Hatchetfish (12). They are in QT for minimum of 4 weeks. Then we will see. I'll try and get a pic tomorrow.
Cost me nothing, well I traded 12 EBA for them. I know the LFS got the better of the deal, but I am trying to get my foot in the door to sell. Have 6-7 dozen which will be ready end of summer or early fall. They were really impressed with the size and colors.

 

[coralbandit]

Nice on the hatchet fish !
I am sure that LFS will be back in touch with you..
That is a great way to get introduced as a breeder to them .

 

[jmaldo]

Well, not the best but a couple of pics of the Silver Hatchetfish.



And here is one of the "Runt' found a place to rest in the potted plant.


And some of the brood

 

[Thedudeiam94]

Just joined Hans discus page on Facebook! Send me a request and I’ll shoot an invite! Posts of new fish and discount codes and future shipments along with possible pairs! Lates updates and fun seeing all the fish from Hans!

 

[86 ssinit]

Well I like the hatchet fish and they are on the discus list. But I don't think you can add them to your 55 gallon tank. 12 hatchets and 8 discus may be to much of a load. Also the hatchets will take up the top of the tank. Which may be a problem at feeding time. All the movement at the top may scare the discus. I think for that combo you will want an 18” wide tank. 75,90 or better. I know some have said discus do not need a deep tanks but I disagree. Like angels they grow long not wide. All my tanks are in the 24”depth. 30” is even better but harder to find.

 

[jmaldo]

Thedudeiam94 Thanks! But No FB for me.
86 ssinit
I agree with the depth for Discus and I plan on upgrading from the 55 gallon to a larger tank by years end. My 55 is 21" high and the Silvers are only 1" at most right now, so it should be "Ok" for awhile. Once they pass QT will be giving them a go. Time will tell.

 

[jmaldo]

Well they got their water change yesterday. Thought I would grab a vid before I set out for the 4th celebration. Maybe not the best since got some floating stuff still. Hence the HOB with polyfill to polish the water. Anyway they are finally back to normal (almost). Yeah!

 

[86 ssinit]

Very nice looking!! But ahaha!!! I see you too have joined the dark side!! Are those blue Acaras in there with the discus .

 

[jmaldo]

I was wondering if anyone would see them. As everyone knows my "Blues" were skittish and hiding since the tank leak and their temp home in the 45g aging water container. It was driving me and them nuts, to the point I woke up one morning and one of them must have injured itself. About a 1" gash/scratch, (all healed up now).
What to do?
During research, everyone mentioned "Dither" fish. I thought maybe try some. Of course I was not going to add any fish to the tank without a proper QT.
So I thought, since their original tank housed a dozen EBA for a weeks before I got them. And the EBA bacteria was already in the filter media and sponge filters why not give it a go.
So, about 2 weeks ago I added 6 1/2' fry from the EBA spawn 10 weeks prior. I was nervous, did I make a mistake?
Here I am not following the procedure 90% of Discus keepers stick to and recommend to avoid problems. I know its a roll of the dice. So, far it has worked out. Whether or not the EBA's helped them feel safe again or just time. All I know is they are finally back to where they were before the tank leak.
Also, if you look closely I have 8 Amano shrimp and a 3" Bamboo shrimp with them since setting up the new 55g. Oh, and the Silver hatchet fish are doing fine, of course still in QT.
Still fingers-crossed I did not make a mistake,

 

[coralbandit]

I saw the shrimp also !
I think you are fine the filter media bacteria and the fact the EBA are still pretty small make them a good choice [ for all but the shrimp I suspect ?] ..
I added my rams without fear except of losing the rams ..I know my rams are clean like you know your EBA are clean ..No real risk there IMO and good practice ..
If I lose my rams or you lose your EBA then we both know something likely is up ..I like the hatchet fish idea and some in another tank looking for a better place to be ..They may enjoy the discus also some day ..They sound very compatible and I have enjoyed mine so far without issue.
Glad to see your blues looking so good and happy !

 

[tfreema]

The video isn’t working for me for some reason. Glad they have settled back in.

 

[jmaldo]

I think you are fine the filter media bacteria and the fact the EBA are still pretty small make them a good choice [ for all but the shrimp I suspect ?] ..

Thanks!
I thought the same of the Amanos. I had a dozen in a EBA growout tank. And lost none. Now that they have grown a bit they are too large and fast to catch (except when molting). The "Discus" really pay no attention to them. They are characters at feeding time though. They will swim up to the surface and grab what they can and swim back down holding it. It is a sight to see.

The video isn’t working for me for some reason.

Just checked it appears to be working fine.
Here is the link again:

 

[tfreema]

Nope. Still doesn’t work. Where is it linked to?

 

[coralbandit]

Nope. Still doesn’t work. Where is it linked to?

Both worked /work for me .
He is using YouTube
j maldo

 

[tfreema]

Hmmmmm..... not sure what’s up then.

This is all I see and when I click on it, it acts like something will open up but doesn’t.

 

[jmaldo]

Update.
Some pics after w/c yesterday.

 

[tfreema]

Beautiful! So glad these guys are doing well for you!

 

[jmaldo]

As mentioned about 3-4 weeks ago. I am concerned with the runt of the litter I started calling it #8. The chasing has not gotten any better, it is most always hiding or hanging out with #7 the next smallest one. It is eating gets in there when the food goes in. #7 and #8 are just not growing as much as the rest of the brood. Seriously considering giving them their own tank with a new batch of the smaller EBA.
What do you guys think?

 

[coralbandit]

If you have the space I think it would help them .Yours do look good and fairly uniform in size .
I will add I see some of the same behavior with my 10 and have noted the checkerboards [my runts] will eat my crumbles or the tropical granules I feed slowly at their leisure ..
I have considered moving them but have angels that would dig the 65gs I just added more I think ?!
My point is they have chosen to feed in a completely different manner then the other 8 fish from the same source ?? If I knew no better I would just suspect they were from a different breeder ! Their behavior is not like the others but they are coming around..They do pick at the FDBW but the others do chase them off also ..
I am not on the same schedule as most of the rest of the discus gang so feast on weekends and single feedings on weekdays is how it goes for mine now .
I over feed the flake and pellets so they can pick on them until next feeding .Not being so concerned about water quality since it is only once daily ? I change every other day .
They eat way more food then even I may suspect ! 10 discus and 10 rams burn through 6-8 cubes ,crumbles and flake on single feeding days and maybe twice as much on weekends ..

 

[86 ssinit]

Not much in your tank but try moving everything around after the next water change. May switch things up. I know when I moved my fish the pecking changed and disappeared. So moving things around may help.

 

[fa4960]

You could also try to swap out your solid piece of driftwood with 2 thinner, longer branch like pieces to create a different setup with more natural hiding places. In the past I have done that and it does sometimes change the behaviour of (some) fish. Unfortunately the old behaviour often also re-establish itself when they have got used to the new setup so no guarantee.....

Although our fish are many generations away from the wild ancestors the hiding behaviour is natural to them with the amount of predators they normally have to avoid in the wild, hence it may be less stressful to them this way?

In my tank I have noticed that the bottom of the pecking order do not get picked upon by all the others. It seems like no.1 mainly goes after no. 2 - 4 whereas the rest are not considered a threat and hence are left alone by no. 1, and so on down the order...... The behaviour is most obvious when there is food in the tank. Although it is still not great to be at the bottom it seems to give those fish some leeway to come out and shoal with the rest.... Maybe it has to do with the larger number of fish in my tank but do you guys experience something similar?

 

[jmaldo]

but try moving everything around after the next water change.

Unfortunately the old behaviour often also re-establish itself when they have got used to the new setup so no guarantee.....

Thanks, Guys

I have moved the pots around a couple of times. It seemed to help at first, but eventually it ends up the same and the chasing / hiding continues. The runt #8 just cannot catch a break.

You could also try to swap out your solid piece of driftwood with 2 thinner, longer branch like pieces to create a different setup with more natural hiding places.

Hmm.. I do have a larger piece with branches I could try.

My son brought a good point when I mentioned I might move #8 and #7. They have finally settled back in, if I get in there with the nets again. No telling what may happen.

What to do? Decisions?

 

[fa4960]

If you decide to move #7 and #8 I think you need to be prepared to do it for a long period, long enough (months) for them to be considered "new" fish with a new chance to establish themselves in the hierarchy. However this of course requires that you somehow can get them bulked up in isolation? There is also the risk that one of them end up bullying the other if suddenly becoming the top dog.....

 

[86 ssinit]

I’m thinking the same way. They will need to be away till they catch up in size. Or till you move all your fish into a bigger tank. I know when I moved mine the pecking order disappeared. First time the last 2 bought were at the bottom of the pecking order. I moved them into the 125 first. A day before the others. When the others went in all was good. All 6 stayed and ate together. When I moved the Hans fish in the 2 most dominant fish just fell in-line with the rest. Now it’s just a big school with no dominant fish. Because of the size of the tank when one chases another it’s got some much room to get away that it just doesn’t matter.
What size tank will you put 7-8 in? This is what breeders do. Move them before they become stunted. As to the others being scared that’s just something you’ll have to see. Right after you move them feed Both sets. That should make it a positive experience.
Also I would take water and media out of the 55 for the new tank. Make it as close as possible to the original. Good luck and this is part of discus ownership .

 

[jmaldo]

Ok, I do have an empty 20H, they would be in until Nov/Dec. Along with some EBA juvies.
Yay or Nay?

 

[nikm128]

I don't think I would put them in a 20H with anything else, when I separated one of mine (5") just him alone made the 20H look small/cramped so 2 3" discus is the max I would put in there. Just do a little decorating though, mine really stressed out being in a bare tank.

 

[coralbandit]

Thinking the 20 is tight ..
I know I am the king of cramming fish in small tanks ,but for grow out size does really matter.It is just too easy to see how fish grow faster in a larger tank .
I fear in 20 they would never catch up even if it went well ?

 

[86 ssinit]

Yeah I’m with the group. I would either buy another 55. $1 a gal sale is on at one of the stores. Or if you can do it I would say upgrade the main tank. Leave 7-8 in the 55.

 

[jmaldo]

Thanks "Guys".
Even though I was sure of the answer, I appreciate and want to get your feedback. So the consensus is no on the 20H. So, since I am not ready for the tank upgrade (still need to build the stand) and no room for another 55g. Looking at a 29 gallon at the $1/g sale at the Petco mentioned by 86 ssinit
What about it, I know not ideal and it is only 9 gals more but more room (6" longer and 2" taller. As mentioned it would be temporary (4 months).
Yay or Nay ?
Also, I am going to contact "Dennis" Discus, to see what he recommends to do to alleviate the issues with #8-7.

Learning all the Time.

 

[nikm128]

Seeing as you will see breeding pairs in a 29 (just for spawning purposes though) I think that temporarily it would be "ok" for two smaller discus. If you could get your hands on a 30 though, that would be great since it's a 3' tank.

 

[86 ssinit]

I like the 29over the 30. It’s higher which is better for discus. It’s better in the long run too. It can be your qt tank in the future.

 

[jmaldo]

As mentioned contacted "Dennis" here is the convo:

Me:
Hey Dennis,
The Blues are doing fine. One concern I have is of the 8, the 2 smallest ones are constantly being chased. Especially by the Alpha. But the majority of the rest will also chase. Any thought? Thinking about moving the 2 to another tank (20H or 29) temporarily until I do a larger tank upgrade in the fall.
Thought?

Dennis:
They are chasing each other, because they are establishing their pecking order. The size of the tank matters in these situations. Your tank is probably too small for the 8. Or too big for just 8 discus.
How big is your tank?
I wouldn’t worry about moving them out, as long as they are eating and not very stressed.

Me: They are in a 55 gallon tank, plan on upgrading in the fall. I understand the pecking order. But the smallest is being chased even if hiding by almost all the others. And it is so stressed and a lot darker then the rest. It is eating but not growing as well as the others.

Dennis: Ok then yes, I agree with you, separate them. That way they will relax, get strong again and then add to the group after few months. It’s just more maintenance on your end though

Me:
I am going to pick up a 29g. The additional tank maintenance will be well worth it. As long as they can relax with less stress hopefully equals better growth and color. And once I upgrade the 29 will become a breeding / nursery tank when I get a pair. I will update with the results.

Well you guessed it. Picked up the 29 gallon today. Set-up will begin this weekend, stay tuned.

I like the 29over the 30. It’s higher which is better for discus. It’s better in the long run too. It can be your qt tank in the future.

Agree, I already have a 33L basically just a shorter 55g. I feel the additional height/length will be better than just the length.

"Thanks" again guys.