Jmaldo's Discus Build

Update.
The 29 gallon is setup. It went well, moved everything from the 10 gallon QT to the 29 including a piece of driftwood and sponge filter from the 55g. Here is a pic, excuse the reflections. I'll do better when I add #7-#8 Discus in a day or two. Just want to ensure the parameters are "Ok"



Check out the Bamboo shrimp pic I caught yesterday. It found a spot to put out it's catchers mitts to feed. The mitts would not focus (blurry halos) at the end of it's 2 arms.

 

Update.
The 29 gallon is setup. It went well, moved everything from the 10 gallon QT to the 29 including a piece of driftwood and sponge filter from the 55g. Here is a pic, excuse the reflections. I'll do better when I add #7-#8 Discus in a day or two. Just want to ensure the parameters are "Ok"



Check out the Bamboo shrimp pic I caught yesterday. It found a spot to put out it's catchers mitts to feed. The mitts would not focus (blurry halos) at the end of it's 2 arms.

Looking good, jmaldo!! Love the pix of your shrimp! I’ve never had shrimp, but I think they’re really neat !

 

29g tank parameters
0,0,5 TDS 170
Really no surprise, just wanted to make sure.
Yeah, #7 and #8 moving this evening.
Hate to disrupt the brood, but...

 

Move postponed. Weird, but I noticed when getting some water from the 29 gallon for the transfer the temp felt cooler. You guessed it, checked it and it is at 79 degrees.
Hmm.. Yesterday it was at 83.9. Not sure how much the temp difference of 5 degrees would have affected them and maybe they would have been "Ok". Just did not want to add more stress. We did get a relief from the heatdome the last few days. The room where the tank is located has no a/c but the windows were opened. Heater is working but maybe not? Added another heater to be safe. Decided to bump up the the dial, will check in the AM. Then again in the evening. If temp is within a degree of 84, will be "Good" to go.
Stay Tuned.

 

Well I monitored the temp.All good @ 84.
#7-8 have been moved. Lights out in the 29 until tomorrow. I still added a half of a cube of FDBW. I did peek in on them and of course they scrambled. I tried my best not to unsettle the brood with the net, it took all of 5 mins. Then did the normal water change. Now they are looking for their food.

Hopefully, this will help.
Only time and of course the fish will tell.
C'mon #7-8

Maybe a pic tomorrow?

 

Update.
Well, I let #7-8 settle in lights out except for the window and other tanks for 48 hrs. Still hiding, I did catch a peek and they were exploring and as soon as they saw me scurried away behind the driftwood. But now its time for the lights and tomorrow is w/c day.
I know give them some time.
"Patience Young Grasshopper!"

The other 6 are doing fine. I did notice what appeared to me them searching the tank for #7-8 then maybe not.

Pics or vid soon. Stay tuned.

 

Update: Not so much. They are still hiding when I enter the room. Getting braver by the day. So no pics
Well after the discussion about FDBW shortage, I decided I better order another batch from: SimplyDiscus LLC
It appears still backordered.
At least they took the time to update the status.
Hey,coralbandit if this takes too long. Some us may be over to raid your freezer of the kilo you have. LOL
They sent this reply back.
HI Joe,
I am writing here to let you know the most current update on my Freeze Dried Blackworm stock order. I have heard back from the Farm in Australia(email received 7/28/19) that they are still backed-up and trying to catch up on shipments. They apologize for the prolonged delay and have estimated they will hopefully be able to ship to me either this week or next week. I do not know how hard and fast those dates are given how badly they have been delayed so far, but I know they are doing the best they can.
I am not thrilled here with the delays and really strive for quick turn arounds when customers order from me. This is not how I like to do business.. Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing I can do about this delay. If you wish to continue to wait for stock to come in you need not do anything here and I will ship as soon as stock comes in. If you feel the delays are not acceptable, then please let me know and I will refund your order immediately. You can reply to this email if you wish to have your order cancelled and refunded and I will immediately do so.
Thank you for your understanding and patience to date here. These delays and backorders have definitely been a source of frustration for all parties, and I will do all I can to get your orders out as soon as stock comes in.
Just as a backup I did order some from:

 

Yes I got the same notice today. It’s the great fdbw shortage of 2019!!! Even the California suppliers are running out. Wish I had a kilo now .

 

This is why I got the kilo !
They go short on the regular I believe or at least yearly ??
If they don't come in I do have a scale and shipping skills !
Joe you should be hand feeding yours so they rush to you !

 

Hi, liked reading your thread
I actually ordered some FDBW this morning and I'm from Australia, I have received payment email but no shipping info yet, reading above I have a feeling I might be waiting too now...
jmaldo
If you have a table and chair near the tank (end of tank, not middle) you should sit there for 15 minutes or more at a time, they will start coming to investigate what you are doing, grab a book or the paper to read, slowly they will come up to you, the longer you spend near the tank the better...

 

SabrinaBrook "Thanks for the comment and for reading the thread. Also, the idea to spend more time viewing the tank.

Update.
Some changes. Here is the rundown.
Decided to move the smallest #6 to the 29 with #7-8. It appears to have helped at least #8 is not as timid and hiding as much. All are eating.
The Silver Hatchets have cleared Quarantine (5 weeks) so they have been moved to the 55 gallon . They have settled in nicely. The Discus were inquisitive of course but now not so much. I also removed a larger piece of driftwood and replaced it with a piece with branches. The EBA's are doing fine and join right in at feeding. They enjoy the FDBW also. The Amanos are all over doing their job. And the Bamboo shrimp is doing fine also.

Here are some pics, not the "Best" but I am trying.

 

I love the look of the hatchetfish, one
of my favorites that I need to find tank space for. Think we need some videos with the hatchets!

 

Just a few more




Silver Hatchets in the 55g


This is the 29 gallon with #6-7-8 less light plus reflections.

 

Fish look great. Why did you move 6? Is the first pic from the 29g? Didn’t know you had shrI'm in yours. Nobody’s bothering them?

 

Just a few more




Silver Hatchets in the 55g


This is the 29 gallon with #6-7-8 less light plus reflections.

Beautiful jmaldo!! So glad #8 is doing better! The Hatchets are a great contrast to your Discus - didn’t know they could take the higher temp! I’m glad you teased coral and it about his blackworm ‘stash’ or I wouldn’t have thought about getting some for my Discus. Even though I got the ones from Calif., because the store you guys buy from is backordered on the Australian bw’s, I will be putting in an order from them, too. SabrinaBrook, has the advantage over us here in the US!

 

Why did you move 6? Is the first pic from the 29g? Didn’t know you had shrI'm in yours. Nobody’s bothering them?

Turns out #6 was the most affected when I moved #8-then #7. It started hiding quite a bit due to the other 5 chasing it. Decided to give it a break and also see if I added it with #8 -#7 if it would help, since #8 was better but still being so timid. It worked "Yeah" #8 now comes out a lot more. I also bumped up the temp to 86 as was suggested by the gang. Time will tell if I made the right decision?

Yes, there are 8 Amanos in the 55 along with the Bamboo shrimp, they have been with the Discus from the start. They are now all about 1"+, at first the brood were inquisitive but now they really pay them no attention. I have even seen the Amanos swim up to the surface to grab a FDBW and carry it back down.

BarbaraLocke
I just got a back-up stash from the California place too. But it's prices are crazy.

Learning all the Time.

 

toosie
Normally when I need a tank say to move fry I transfer some substrate along with the sponge filter. Never a problem. Since this was a larger tank and cleaned very well. I used an established canister filter and sponge filter along with a boost from Seachem Stability.
Just to be safe I did add a couple of doses of ammonia. I expected and did experience a bacterial bloom. After some water changes. no ammonia or nitrites and nitrates. I needed to move some fish around so I added the Bolivans as coralbandit keenly noticed. All is well.
Hope this helps.

86 ssinit
I know I have a lot of plants and yes I need clear and safe swimming room for the "Discus". Still undecided where I want to go with the placement. Thanks for the ideas.

Okay, Everyone, what would you do,looking for advise?
I originally planned on picking up the "Discus" from a local breeder, it appears he will be getting the shipment in about 2-3 weeks. Keeping them for me until the I pick them up Memorial weekend. Or should I just order directly from:

When you say this ("After some water changes. no ammonia or nitrites and nitrates") it reads as if your readings are 0/0/0, which is why some people are responding the way they are in my opinion. After reading this whole thread carefully, I am assuming you mean you had nitrates, but zero ammonia and zero nitrites.

As for Seachem Stability/current bacteria needing a constant ammonia source, sounds like you have that ammonia source by adding fish in almost immediately. Now, I am a beginner so I could be wrong, but this seems to be (in a sense) a cycle using fish as the source of ammonia - albeit you already have bacteria colonized and therefor this will logically be a less stressful type of cycle for the fish compared to traditional cycles that use fish as a source of ammonia.

I just wanted to point out that the people who are concerned with his cycle might be reading his post wrong, I think he means his levels are 0/0/15 rather than all zero.

 

Connor4812
Hmm.. Now that you mentioned it, it should read:
("After some water changes. no ammonia or nitrites and do have nitrates")

Thanks, not sure I can edit at this time.

So to everyone reading, this refers to post #11,
I was very careful with this setup and monitored the parameters closely. At no time after the fish were added did I see any ammonia or nitrites.

 

A Tough Update.
Sadly, #8 has passed. Checked on them this AM, I saw #6-7 in the front of the tank but #8 was still hiding. After dinner, went to do their w/c and found #8 lifeless on the bottom. Immediately scooped it out and proceeded to the w/c and through cleaning. I did get a sample of water to test. 0/0/5 TDS 165 Temp 85. #8 was the runt, I suppose I waited to long to move it, or not? Not sure at this point, I doubt I'll never know.
That makes 4 of the gang losing 1 in 2 weeks.
Just a horrible feeling all around.

Learning all the Time.

 

So sorry you lost him! That is tough.

 

A Tough Update.
Sadly, #8 has passed. Checked on them this AM, I saw #6-7 in the front of the tank but #8 was still hiding. After dinner, went to do their w/c and found #8 lifeless on the bottom. Immediately scooped it out and proceeded to the w/c and through cleaning. I did get a sample of water to test. 0/0/5 TDS 165 Temp 85. #8 was the runt, I suppose I waited to long to move it, or not? Not sure at this point, I doubt I'll never know.
That makes 4 of the gang losing 1 in 2 weeks.
Just a horrible feeling all around.

Learning all the Time.

Oh, jmaldo, I am so sorry for your loss!! Geesh, this has been a terrible week for the gang! I think it was you who asked me earlier if I had called Hans about the one I lost. I emailed him with a detailed description of the event, but he has not replied. I debated calling him today, but the article you found about the ‘dashing Discus disorder’ pretty much covered all the possibilities - including NKR (no known reason). Sigh.... hope this is the last of the bad news.

 

Sorry to here. Folks this is what happens. Unforunatly there are going to be losses. Jmaldo I'm not surprised you lost one. All of yours are from the same hatch. So it’s just survival of the fittest. Reason why I got different types of fish from Hans. As an online breeder he’s going to send you the better fish and not the runts. He wants good feedback. But when you buy a group your getting what he has best to worst. Also I like different colors . The dude did the same thing and his weakest also died. Again that’s just survival of the fittest.

From the fish I bought from Hans my biggest than is now my runt. It eats but just enough to live. Maybe because my fish are all different I don’t have the aggression in my tank and the others just leave him alone. But he is now almost half the size of some of the others so his time is numbered. Should I move him? Hasn’t worked for others yet. Babara I’m hoping yours works because I may go that route. My lfs has some discus and I may team him up with one of there’s if yours continue to do good. This is why this group really works. Because we get ideas from each other.

 

Sorry to here. Folks this is what happens. Unforunatly there are going to be losses. Jmaldo I'm not surprised you lost one. All of yours are from the same hatch. So it’s just survival of the fittest. Reason why I got different types of fish from Hans. As an online breeder he’s going to send you the better fish and not the runts. He wants good feedback. But when you buy a group your getting what he has best to worst. Also I like different colors . The dude did the same thing and his weakest also died. Again that’s just survival of the fittest.

From the fish I bought from Hans my biggest than is now my runt. It eats but just enough to live. Maybe because my fish are all different I don’t have the aggression in my tank and the others just leave him alone. But he is now almost half the size of some of the others so his time is numbered. Should I move him? Hasn’t worked for others yet. Babara I’m hoping yours works because I may go that route. My lfs has some discus and I may team him up with one of there’s if yours continue to do good. This is why this group really works. Because we get ideas from each other.

I agree, 86 ssinit, that that seemed to be what was happening with my outcast. He wasn’t getting terribly bullied, when I was watching anyway, but he just didn’t seem to have the will to live with the other 3. What has happened now is like the ‘kick the dog’ syndrome - he was the weakest in his (forced) group, and now he’s the biggest and getting stronger every day! I’ll have to say that little Arlo must have good genes, ‘cause he’s getting out of Outcast’s way, but still goes after the food. I love that I can stick the blackworm cubes to the glass, and they stay put even until just a few are left. I break a cube into quarters, and put one on one side of the tank, an another out of the line-of-sight on the other side. Everything is good, so far . The Turqs are doing really well, and if one is the boss, you’d never know. They swim together, eat together, and hang in the cave together. Even though I stick their blackworm cubes in two different places, they both peck at one, then move together over to the other one. I don’t know what will happen when I move Outcast and Arlo back into the big tank, but I kinda think that the Flachen who freaked out and died might have been the dominant one, and maybe the temperaments of the Turqs are more the placid follower type. At least I hope so!

You got me thinking about how we humans make all the decisions for our animals, and yet many kinds of animals mate for life (as do Discus), and can form bonds which are obvious. They will also become very distressed if separated from their mate or buddy. So how do we know if some of our fish that fail to thrive were taken away from their buddy when they were plucked from the tank and shipped far away? I don’t know what age Discus are when they look for a mate, but it’s my guess that these young ones that we buy are kept in large schools, and only the 5” ones are watched to see if any pair off. I’ll stop rambling now

 

"Thanks" Everyone. Some of the theory's proposed give me pause. We try our best and sometimes it just happens for whatever reason. It may be we are overthinking it. Then again we just may not understand. We have taken a fish that should be in nature thriving with thousands of gallons of water. And we make a feeble attempt and try our best to duplicate it. Throw filters, water changes, special foods and chemicals and what not at a problem we are just guessing at trying to solve. And there is "Mother Nature" just laughing at us.
All I can do at this point is accept the loss and do my best not to have anymore.
Is it possible?
Time will tell.
I just may take the approach "Tom" coralbandit mentioned, Treat them as any other fish.
Anyway, all the rambling aside. I still have 7.
Learning all the time.

 

My approach after loosing one is that if I lost one swordtail out of 10 I would not think I was doing so bad ?
Sorry you lost one Joe .
My two dominants are doing fine in their own tank and others seem fine also back in the original tank so ?
Not sure if they get moved back together or not ?

 

Sorry that you lost one mate.

I think you need to try to set yourself free from your starting point. I assume you bought 8 and expected to end up with 8? I bought 42 at 3" and I was absolutely certain I wouldn't end up with 42. Still annoys me to lose fish along the way but mainly when it is a supposedly "healthy" one whereas the many runts and stunted fish lost didn't give me the same grievance, more like acceptance of mother nature. Makes sense?

Now do the best for the remaining 7 as I know you will and hopefully this is the only loss. Best of luck.

 

Better Update.
#6-7 in the 29 gallon appear to have settled in. At least they are not swimming to hide when they see me as much now. Even after their w/c Friday night they came out and are eating. As far as the other 5, they are doing well, Also, I thought I had the tank top sealed fairly well but noticed a couple Hatchets missing. Found them behind the stand. Maybe not the right choice. But.. I have them now,

Learning all the Time.

 

Yeah, food (FDBW) is on the way. Looks like I will not need to raid your freezer after all coralbandit
Oh, by the way the 7 are doing fine.

 

Lol mine is also on its way. So I ordered more .

 

I mentioned this in 86 ssinit thread but want it here:
"I decided to my Discus some Frozen Blood worms to change it up. (getting low on the cubes). It appears I made a mistake or I over did it. They now prefer the blood worms, somewhat ignore the cubes for the past week, they are still eating them but not as they did. So, now I am weaning them off the blood worms. They also started eating the Diskus Gold crumbles and Discus Granules."
Anyway,
So, I visited my LFS today, needed some more frozen food (Bloodworms and Brine shrimp) and of course see if I can sell some more EBA to him. He will take a couple dozen of the larger ones. Yea!, but mentioned the market is saturated with cichlids. Even his wholesalers are offering deals. Not good for me.
Had a nice discussion. Live foods Brine shrimp grow outs and blackworm farming. He tried the blackworms not a success.
Anyway, I have a beautiful EBA breeding pair from coralbandit that unless I keep them separate they breed almost non stop. And since the market is down.
Here is my idea, I know I might get some down votes but I am thinking of putting the EBA pair back together and let them spawn and feed the swimmers and fry to the Discus. I have done this before with Angels when I kept them and was overrun with Guppy fry. The Angels enjoyed chasing them and "Grew" like crazy.
So Discus gang, all comments "Welcome".

And the 7 are doing fine.

 

Personally I wouldn't do that, I couldn't do it, id feel bad lol.. I would just leave the EBA pair apart in separate tanks so you don't get fry, simple

 

Live food is the best !
Funny on the EBA,my remaining 3 adults that have been my breeders have not spawned in over 6 months ???
Maybe the clown loaches just eat the eggs quickly?

 

Being a farmer most of my life, I’ve raised animals for food out of necessity, and honored their sacrifice. The key being ‘out of necessity’....

 

New addition?
Quanvee Fluidized Moving Bed Filter. I saw this awhile back kinda forgot about it but a well-known member DarkOne started using it. Thanks for the reminder!
So I figured I give it try.
Just some pics. Check out the EBAs as soon as I installed it they swam right up thinking the moving media is food. LOL





And lastly a co-worker was kind enough to bring a cake to work. She remembered I am a fish guy. So thoughtful!

 

Happy Birthday Joe !

 

Happy Birthday! That cake is so cool haha

 

Happy birthday!!!

 

Happy Birthday.

I see no problem with feeding them fry. I do feed my culled cherry shrimp to them. Only thing would be they will probably eat small tetras later. So they would be a no go on the dither fish list.

 

Happy Birthday, Joe !! Your cake looks too beautiful to eat