I had to do a 75 water change, high ammonia

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  • #51
As we’ve talked about before, I’d suggest you stop using the ammonia blocker as it will likely affect the cycling process. But don’t stop using it until AFTER you do what I’m going to suggest below.

The only way to reduce the ammonia level is with water changes. Was the 3.0 ppm ammonia level after the water change?

I’d suggest you do another 50% water change. Your goal should be to get the ammonia level down to 0.50 ppm. Do 50% water changes every couple hours until the ammonia level reaches 0.50 ppm.

Remember to temperature match the water you’re adding to the tank water temperature and to use your water conditioner at each water change.

Sorry if I’ve asked this already, but have you tested your tap water for ammonia?
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Yes my water is still 3.0 after water change. Yes i tested my tap water ,and the ammonia level, was more than 3.0. I will do water changes, until my ammonia goes down.
 

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  • #53

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Yes my water is still 3.0 after water change. Yes i tested my tap water ,and the ammonia level, was more than 3.0. I will do water changes, until my ammonia goes down.
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The test result picture you posted is a bit difficult for me to see, but. . .

If your tap water contains 3.0 ppm of ammonia, that complicates things as water changes won’t bring the ammonia level down to a “typically” safe level. The potentially good news is that your pH level reduces the toxicity of ammonia, but the level in your tap water is still a concern.

Although there are some more complicated options available to you, I’m gonna tag Flyfisha to make sure I’m not missing a simple option.
 
Do you have an alternative water source? Tap water with 3.0ppm ammonia is going to be difficult to work with.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #56
I went to the pet store and they tested my water here are my test results from my tap water.
Ammonia 0.50
ph 7.2
tank water
Ammonia 0.25
ph 7.2
nittate 18 ppm
the test strips I bought were not acc
 

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I went to the pet store and they tested my water here are my test results from my tap water.
Ammonia 0.50
ph 7.2
tank water
Ammonia 0.25
ph 7.2
nittate 18 ppm
Click to expand...
You just took them a sample of your tap AND tank water? Any idea what brand of test kit or test strips they used? And what brand of test strips are you using?

If I’m being honest with you, it’s really difficult to suggest next steps to you given these very different test results.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #58
You just took them a sample of your tap AND tank water? Any idea what brand of test kit or test strips they used? And what brand of test strips are you using?

If I’m being honest with you, it’s really difficult to suggest next steps to you given these very different test results.
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The pet store used the API Water Test Kit
Fresh water master test kit.
I used Tetra Easy Strips Complete Aquarium Test Kit
Yes, I took in tap water and tank water.
My fish are swimming around and they look healthy.
 
I went to the pet store and they tested my water here are my test results from my tap water.
Ammonia 0.50
ph 7.2
tank water
Ammonia 0.25
ph 7.2
nittate 18 ppm
the test strips I bought were not acc
Click to expand...
The pet store used the API Water Test Kit
Fresh water master test kit.
I used Tetra Easy Strips Complete Aquarium Test Kit
Yes, I took in tap water and tank water.
My fish are swimming around and they look healthy.
Click to expand...
Although I hesitate a bit given some of the other things your pet store has told you, I trust the API Master Test kit. So I’m going to take another stab at this. . .

Because I don’t think the pet store tested nitrites (you don’t mention nitrites in your post) and assuming you’ve only done the one water change earlier today, I’d suggest you do one more 50% water change tonight.

Are you able to take another water sample to the pet store tomorrow and ask them to test your ammonia AND nitrite (not nitrate) levels? Write down the results and post them here tomorrow?
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #60
Although I hesitate a bit given some of the other things your pet store has told you, I trust the API Master Test kit. So I’m going to take another stab at this. . .

Because I don’t think the pet store tested nitrites (you don’t mention nitrites in your post) and assuming you’ve only done the one water change earlier today, I’d suggest you do one more 50% water change tonight.

Are you able to take another water sample to the pet store tomorrow and ask them to test your ammonia AND nitrite (not nitrate) levels? Write down the results and post them here tomorrow?
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I will have to take my water in wed.. I will for now give you my test results for tonight from my test kit. my nitrite is o
but I am sure the pet store will have a different reading. The pet store told me not to do another water change as that could stress out my fish.
 
Hi Donna welcome to the forum, looks like some very helpful and capable members have your back in this thread. :)

May I suggest, when you go to the store, ask the clerk to write down the exact numbers for:
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
pH

Or maybe write that down and just ask them to put the #
They should be happy to do that for you. :)
 

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  • Thread Starter
  • #62
Hi Donna welcome to the forum, looks like some very helpful and capable members have your back in this thread. :)

May I suggest, when you go to the store, ask the clerk to write down the exact numbers for:
ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
pH

Or maybe write that down and just ask them to put the #
They should be happy to do that for you. :)
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So far the pet store told me the following
Ammornia 0.25
ph 7.2
nitrate is 18 ppm
I just need to know what my nitrite numbers are,
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #64
That's a start but since you're cycling with fish those numbers (except maybe the pH) will change as the nitrogen cycle progresses
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'When I get payed.. I am going to get the master test kit. The test strips are not very accurate. I am also go to the pet store to get my water checked out, as well.
 
This tank seems fine and has happy healthy fish with no stress.

The water from the tap has some ammonia but in post #56 we see that the tank is lower in ammonia than the tap which means the tank is processing ammonia. And we see it is making nitrates so the cycle may be complete.

The pH is neutral so ammonia is not toxic until much higher levels than measured. We should not be worried about ammonia poisoning with 7.2 pH water.

OP I say stop running around, stop testing, stop changing water and just enjoy your fish tank! And your baby fish! If fish are making babies, then your water must be good!!

Buying the big API test kit is a waste since you will use it a few times and it will expire with the bottles all full. These master test kits are for stores that test hundreds of times.
 
This tank seems fine and has happy healthy fish with no stress.

The water from the tap has some ammonia but in post #56 we see that the tank is lower in ammonia than the tap which means the tank is processing ammonia. And we see it is making nitrates so the cycle may be complete.

The pH is neutral so ammonia is not toxic until much higher levels than measured. We should not be worried about ammonia poisoning with 7.2 pH water.

OP I say stop running around, stop testing, stop changing water and just enjoy your fish tank! And your baby fish! If fish are making babies, then your water must be good!!

Buying the big API test kit is a waste since you will use it a few times and it will expire with the bottles all full. These master test kits are for stores that test hundreds of times.
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I think you’ve mis-read and/or not read several posts.

Sorry, but suggesting that the OP stop testing based on what we know and what we don’t know (nitrite level, as just one example) is irresponsible IMO.
 
In post #60 she reports 0 nitrites.
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She also says her test strips are inaccurate, which seems to be confirmed by the pet store test results.

There are wide-ranging and conflicting test results throughout this thread. I think there’s also been some confusion about nitrites vs. nitrates (use of the words).
 
The strips may not be precise, but the strips are OK for measuring zero. They don't tend to give false negatives.
 
The strips may not be precise, but the strips are OK for measuring zero. They don't tend to give false negatives.
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You’re much more confident about where this tank’s at than I am. But let’s not derail the OP’s thread. . . There’s already a fair amount of confusion.

donnabright2002 I stand by my suggestions. . . I would not advise you to stop testing at this point.
 
It looks like the ammonia in her source water has caused it to appear that her tank was not cycled, but in fact it is.

At 7.2 pH, the ammonia even at 3.0 will not harm the fish, even the fry, and the cycle will take it down rapidly as she has measured.

I suggest that going forward, with ammonia in the tap, always do only partial water changes and don't go over 50% in one day. That will keep ammonia levels safe.
 

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It looks like the ammonia in her source water has caused it to appear that her tank was not cycled, but in fact it is.

At 7.2 pH, the ammonia even at 3.0 will not harm the fish, even the fry, and the cycle will take it down rapidly as she has measured.

I suggest that going forward, with ammonia in the tap, always do only partial water changes and don't go over 50% in one day. That will keep ammonia levels safe.
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This will be my last comment. . . Again, we’re causing unnecessary confusion in an already confusing situation.

There are no fry in the tank. If you’re interested in helping, please re-read all the posts (2 separate threads I think) very carefully.
 
OP, you started this tank back in October using existing media, and have reported back on Nov 17, that it was cycled based on your fish store testing. You have happy fish. The ammonia in your source water has led to some confusion and caused you to think that it is not cycled.

Many folks have aquariums that use tap water with some ammonia in it. Ammonia is natural and the fish are well adapted to handling the low levels in your water as you can see.

Enjoy your fish!
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #74
OP, you started this tank back in October using existing media, and have reported back on Nov 17, that it was cycled based on your fish store testing. You have happy fish. The ammonia in your source water has led to some confusion and caused you to think that it is not cycled.

Many folks have aquariums that use tap water with some ammonia in it. Ammonia is natural and the fish are well adapted to handling the low levels in your water as you can see.

Enjoy your fish!
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Thank you. Yay my fish tank has cycled, but one thing remains. Why are my fish test strips, way off, from the test at the pet shop? 0.25 is a big difference, from 3.0, for ammonia. What do I believe?
 
Is it possible the test strips have not been stored in an air tight container ?

Using a jar with a lid is recommended to keep moisture off paper strips.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #76
Is it possible the test strips have not been stored in an air tight container ?

Using a jar with a lid is recommended to keep moisture off paper strips.
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The test strips are new, the strips came in bottle, with a lid.
 
This is why I think it would still be a good idea to invest in a master test kit. You can do it yourself and not have to question the accuracy of test strips or the competence of pet shop staff. Even though it appears that the tank is cycled I still think it’s a worthwhile investment for someone who has ammonia in their tap water.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #78
The only problem I have with the master test kit, is that I have shaky hands, and it would be hard for me to use. I need accurate test strips. or go the pet store, to get my water tested.
 
The only problem I have with the master test kit, is that I have shaky hands, and it would be hard for me to use. I need accurate test strips. or go the pet store, to get my water tested.
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Ok. I don't have any experience with test strips so I don't know which are the best. It might be a topic for a separate thread if you can't find info elsewhere.
 
Thank you. Yay my fish tank has cycled, but one thing remains. Why are my fish test strips, way off, from the test at the pet shop? 0.25 is a big difference, from 3.0, for ammonia. What do I believe?
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Believe both.

In the time it takes you to transport the sample to the store, the ammonia level has dropped.

This is because your water company uses chloramines. Chloramines quickly leave, but show up as ammonia on your water tests temporarily.

You can try this. Test your tap water. Then put it in a glass and let it sit out for a day. Then test again. You should see the same effect, that the ammonia levels as tested drop over time! This is because your chloramines have left the water. They leave as a gas, but this takes time. You can hurry it up by aerating the water to cause faster gas exchange at the surface.
 
Have you any way to collect rainwater? I wouldn't be using your tap water.
 

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  • Thread Starter
  • #82
I left my tank water out all night, and the test strips, still read 3.0 ammonia. And when I took the water sample, into the pet store, The tank water was left out about an hour, when I went to the pet store. still reads 3.0 left out all night. When the lady tested my tank water is 0.25 and so was my tap water.
 
You are seeing the lack of precision of the test strips. The strips are really only good for detecting the presence, but not measuring the amount.

If you see any color change, then you have something present.

The strips can't see the difference between 3.0 ppm and .5 ppm. They just tell you that there is some ammonia in the water and it is not zero.

It's interesting that right on the Tetra web site, the review for this product also describes how the strips measure way too high. https://www.tetra-fish.com/products/water-care/easystrips-ammonia-test-strips.aspx

The strips are not precise enough to see the change in chloramine levels as it outgasses over night either. But the chloramine does leave over time.


So you have some chloramines in your water, but as long as you use your dechlorinator your fish will be fine. And your tank is cycled and fish are happy!


And you have baby fish!?!
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #84
You are seeing the lack of precision of the test strips. The strips are really only good for detecting the presence, but not measuring the amount.

If you see any color change, then you have something present.

The strips can't see the difference between 3.0 ppm and .5 ppm. They just tell you that there is some ammonia in the water and it is not zero.

It's interesting that right on the Tetra web site, the review for this product also describes how the strips measure way too high. EasyStrips™ Ammonia Test Strips | Tetra®

The strips are not precise enough to see the change in chloramine levels as it outgasses over night either. But the chloramine does leave over time.


So you have some chloramines in your water, but as long as you use your dechlorinator your fish will be fine. And your tank is cycled and fish are happy!


And you have baby fish!?!
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I thought I had baby fish, come to find out those fish are live bearers.. They are very small fish. I have 3 guppy fish, 3 tetras, 11 Glo fish, and 3 live bearers. Anyways, I ordered different test strips, for testing the ammonia levels. I will let you know how well that works out. I also own a 20 gallon tall fish tank btw. I bought these test strips on amazon...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BLC75MZX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
The test strips have given you all the information you need, they have shown you that there is Ammonia in your tank, that is all you need to know, the amount doesn't matter as the figure needs to be zero.
 
Folks with chloramines in their water will actually be raising their ammonia levels by changing the water so they cannot keep their ammonia at zero. This leads to confusion that makes one think that their tank isn't cycled, when it is. It's a classic aquarium conundrum.

Given your pH of 7.2, the ammonia levels from your chloramine are not toxic or in any way stressful for your fish. Baby fish would be fine as well.

Here is the relationship between pH and ammonia toxicity.
http://www.blueridgekoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pH-and-Ammonia.pdf

This is based on toxicity studies on real fish and is the standard tables used in aquaculture.

This is why we measure pH. To know if we need to worry about ammonia.
 
Folks with chloramines in their water will actually be raising their ammonia levels by changing the water so they cannot keep their ammonia at zero. This leads to confusion that makes one think that their tank isn't cycled, when it is. It's a classic aquarium conundrum.

Given your pH of 7.2, the ammonia levels from your chloramine are not toxic or in any way stressful for your fish. Baby fish would be fine as well.

Here is the relationship between pH and ammonia toxicity.
http://www.blueridgekoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pH-and-Ammonia.pdf

This is based on toxicity studies on real fish and is the standard tables used in aquaculture.

This is why we measure pH. To know if we need to worry about ammonia.
Click to expand...
What about nitrites? Lets say the ammonia level is actually 3ppm but is not toxic given the pH level, it would be constantly under conversion to nitrites then nitrates. Does the pH level affect the toxicity of nitrites?
 
I always run acid tanks No Ammonia, No Nitrites, No Nitrates. My tanks are well planted.
Can I say you seem to be chasing your tail a bit. As suggested in another post, can you change your water source? Preferably to rain water.
 
Does the pH level affect the toxicity of nitrites?
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Yes, opposite to ammonia, toxicity in nitrite goes up the lower the pH, peaking at about 6 if I recall correctly. Luckily most nitrifiers in low pH environments skip the nitrite stage of the nitrogen cycle resulting in minimal amounts.
 
I thought I had baby fish, come to find out those fish are live bearers.. They are very small fish. I have 3 guppy fish, 3 tetras, 11 Glo fish, and 3 live bearers.
Click to expand...

I hope your fish have babies! My live bearers and guppies breed like crazy. Lots of fun. Nothing cuter than baby fish!
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #91
I would like to have baby fish, but I do not think i'd have room in my 20 gallon tank. I'd have to sell the fish to my pet store.
I always run acid tanks No Ammonia, No Nitrites, No Nitrates. My tanks are well planted.
Can I say you seem to be chasing your tail a bit. As suggested in another post, can you change your water source? Preferably to rain water.
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There is no way I could get rain water. I could get bottle water thoe. according to my pet store they said my tap water did not have that much ammonia so I had nothing to worry about.
Can I breed live feeder fish, with guppies, and make money?
 

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Your tetras will eat many of the baby fish, but a few will survive and get too big to be eaten, and the circle of life will continue!

We have a 20 gallon tank of livebearers like that. It seems to be a self sustaining little world going on 7 years now.

Don't worry about the room in the tank. It will work itself out.
 
Donna, yes you can sell fish back to the fish store and make a little money too! You will need to learn to save the babies and keep them separate.

You can learn to expand to some java moss plants, and develop a good relation with your local pet store manager.

Cory is a great guy in our aquarium world.
 
Ohhhh, Lawd..... first off Hi donnabright2002!

Ok everyone. Look. IF the tank is cycled, and well, the tank ammonia is lower than the tap water, and nitrates are coming up in the tank, so, yeah it's cycled.
Whole lot of back and forth here on what to do about this situation, And Honestly I keep coming back and thinking "is there even a situation here that needs addressing, or some store worker that doesn't know whats going on due to inexperience, giving advice, and scaring someone into going overboard trying to fix an issue that isn't creating any problem""....

IF the temp is 78F or cooler, and the pH is 8.0 or lower and doesn't continue to go up,
It's likely not going to have any adverse effect whether it's 0.50 ammonia, or 3.0 ammonia or anywhere in between.

We all have seen the API master test kit chart and the problems people have figuring out the colors and doing the testing process with the vials, bottles of liquids and big vs. small holes hard squueze vs. soft squeeze, it's about as accurate as test strips in reality, and in reality test strips are as accurate as the API master kit. it makes no difference, NEITHER is completely accurate and prone to errors or mishandling or misreading of the color charts. whatever you are comfortable with is good enough t get the general idea of how the aquarium is doing. Cheap knock off test strips should be avoided though.

The MOST IMPORTANT THING is that the aquarium is in fact cycled. if ammonia is going to nitrates, you don't need to test nitrites, nitrites are converting if theres nitrates. if the cycle is weak or transitioning you can get a backlog of ammonia or nitrites also, but that passes with time. Nitrites aren't particularly toxic anyways and takes like 5ppm to get in the dangerous zone, but I've been higher with minimal stress and no deaths. So it's not a hard rule. Ammonia and Nitrites should be "0" in a perfect world, but things aren't always perfect.

Water changes should be done regularly, you'd want to water change 100% of the water in the tank 1x a month and do it over a few water changes. if you tap water has ammonia in it, you'd need to do smaller water changes more often, say 25% weekly so that 5 gallons of new water with ammonia gets diluted by the 15 gallons of water without it that the tank has already taken care of, making it even more safe for the fish.

First post on this is Nov.18th , it's Dec. 6th. If all fish are still alive, eating and not acting strange/stressed and still looking good and healthy, then CLEARLY if it's a problem, it doesn't need outside influence to solve, it's mostly been sorting itself out just fine for the last 18 days.

As far as I can tell in this thread, no fish has died, everyone is fine, some fish store tested the water and freaked, but hey, like I said, not everyone is a genius and knows how to operate the tests at a store, and you shouldn't trust other people with your water testing and instead do it yourself, with whatever test you are comfortable with, they all are generalization tests and close color shade changes between readings, but it IS a decent baseline to get a general idea of what's going on, BASICALLY just used to determine when you should water change.
Heck, water change like I said. aim for 100% of the tanks water being changed each month whether it's 2x 50%, 4x25% 1x75% and 1x25% 10x10%.

Maybe there is ammonia in the tap water, that goes into the tank and the tank and cycle has to deal with it like it's supposed to. Even if that's the case the fish need to have an actual problem and the fish have actual stress and/or dying from it for it to be an actual problem that needs correcting.

IF that's the case where its injuring or killing fish, and the pH is high and the ammonia is high and then lower the pH below 7.0 with driftwood, or humic substances, or peat moss, ect. ect and the ammonia will be even less toxic at a lower pH.

Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Water change as you normally would to maintain the tank, Do your own water testing with whatever method suits you and is easiest for you to understand and use, it's all the same, general tests with color charts clearly not meant for the colorblind. LOL.

if the fish aren't sick or dying, are eating well and swimming around and growing, and look good, I don't see a problem whatever the tests or the stores tell you.

Just being honest. All the best to all yall!
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #97
I did a 25 percent water change. here is my test taking of photo is blurry. the test is 3.0 to 6.0.
 

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Donna the test strips are giving a false high ammonia reading due to the chloramines in your water.

At your pH the chloramine is harmless and must be ignored.

Always use your dechlorinator and ignore the false ammonia readings.

The cholramines will leave after a few days and then your strips can be used to check the tank for ammonia.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #99
Is it ok to use a new sponge inside the tank, or to wipe the glass? The sponge is new. I used it inside the tank, to wipe the glass. I did not clean the sponge as it was brand new. i read it should be cleaned cause there could be chemicals on the sponge, that was after the fact that I used the new sponge.
 

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