75 Gallon Tank Fish in cycle not going great

[Curtchuk]

So I’ve gotten too impatient with the cycling, didn’t wait long enough for enough bacteria to establish in the new tank before adding more fish.
Lost a Zebra Danio yesterday, found one of the snails snacking on the corpse. Noticed a few of the others not looking to peppy and just doing a float near the surface which was a bad sign, the Corys were hiding and so were my two yo yo loaches. Checked my water and the ammonia was some where between .5 and 1.0 did a 50% water change added more bacteria. So anyhow they all woke up again except the one, it’s mouth was red and raw looking pretty sure its gills were burnt out. I removed all the danios put them in a mature tank and they all good except red gills….Im thinking he’s gonna give up the ghost tonight, just curious if anyone has had one of these come back from the brink with red inflammation in the mouth /fill area?
Can videos be posted on threads, can seem to be able to.

 

[Bwood22]

To post videos...you need to upload the video to YouTube then post the link here.

But that's not important right now.

It sounds like you could have a nitrite issue.

How long have you been trying to cycle this tank?
What was your original ammonia source?
Can you test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/PH plz?

Tell me more about this tank before you added the fish. Size, equipment....everything.

 

[Curtchuk]

75 gallon, Aquatop 300 canister.
Ran it without fish for about a week with used filter media , added some bacteria, then a few danios, was going alright, tests weren’t showing anything after three days, so tossed in four Corys……then we’ll the next day thought I’d put the two yo-yos in…..well , that was some terrible judgement, ammonia hangs around .15 a .25, reaches .50 or a little more by the next evening. So been changing out 15 gallons everyday, today I took out about 30 and everything seems ok although still have ammonia about .25. Removed the 6 danios , might try net the Corys tomorrow. Going to leave the yo-yos in cause I can’t catch them in that tank

 

[Bwood22]

You can catch them if you drain the water.

O.5ppm of ammonia accumulating in a few days in a 75 gallon tank with a few corys and a few danios with no other source of ammonia probably means that you are over feeding.

Nevertheless, I don't think that ammonia is your issue.

Are you able to test your nitrite level?
What is the PH of the tank water?

 

[Curtchuk]

I haven’t checked PH, the water from my taps is usually in the 7.5 to 7.8 range, I need a PH high kit to check it but don’t bother trying to Ph down it , or chase Ph levels the fish been ok with it.
I didn’t think I was feeding too much, usually a cube of bloodworms for the loaches, a very small pinch of flake for the Damios, and I put in a couple pellets for the Corys, the Danios are out now so no more flake. So it’s just bloodworms and a few pellets…do you feed them even more sparingly than that during a cycle? Oh I also got three mystery snails in there not sure that makes to much difference. I’ll see if I can half the bloodworms dude into two feedings see if that helps.
I haven’t checked PH, the water from my taps is usual in the 7.5-
So the Danios I thought was wondering if it was gonna croak looks like it’s doing ok this morning, also checked the 75 gallon and the ammonia hasn’t risen, probably just too many too soon. I have a Nitrate kit, it’s still not picking up anything in the water, I don’t have a Nitrite test kit, does API make one cause I haven’t seen it?

 

[ProudPapa]

. . . I have a Nitrate kit, it’s still not picking up anything in the water, I don’t have a Nitrite test kit, does API make one cause I haven’t seen it?

Do you have separate tests for ammonia and nitrates? If yes, I assume API makes and sells one. Quite a few people buy the API kit that tests for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH.

 

[Bwood22]

Yes they do.

You should pick up one of these.

API FRESHWATER MASTER TEST KIT 800-Test Freshwater Aquarium Water Master Test Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255NCI?ref_=cm_sw_r_apan_dp_ZBTK273Q0P4FR95CNFE5

If you can't test for all these things then you can't really tell what's going on in your tank.

There are 2 possible reasons that you aren't seeing a positive result on your Nitrate test:

1. You are not following the test instructions properly by not shaking the heck out of Bottle 2 before dripping it into the vial. You really need to beat that bottle to death for about 30 seconds to make sure that the contents are properly mixed, then once you have 10 drops from each of both Bottle 1 and Bottle 2 in your vial...shake the vial for 1 min then read your result after 5 mins. Failure to follow these steps will result in a false 0ppm Nitrate reading.

If you are already doing that test properly:

2. There hasn't been enough time for a Nitrobacter colony to grow to sufficient size to consume the Nitrite in the tank. So Nitrate isn't being produced and that's why you aren't seeing anything on your test.

0ppm Nitrate in a brand new tank that's still cycling is very Bad. That means the tank isn't cycled or even close to being ready for fish.

 

[Curtchuk]

I have the separate API tests, I should just get the master kit already

 

[RayClem]

You answered your own question in the initial post. Cycling a tank requires PATIENCE, whether you are doing a fish-in cycle or fish-out. It takes 2-3 weeks to develop the bacteria needed to convert ammonia to nitrite and another 2-3 weeks to develop the bacteria needed to convert nitrite to nitrate. By using media from an established tank, you MIGHT shorten the overall time to 4 weeks, but that is not guaranteed. You started increasing the fish load way too early.

Zebra danios are a good fish to use for a fish-in cycle as they are inexpensive and fairly hardy.

Corydoras catfish are armored catfish that lack scales. Thus, they are NOT good candidates for fish-in cycling.

Yo Yo loaches are fairly hardy, but they are nocturnal fish. They will hide during the day and come out at night. Thus, they need to be fed shortly before turning out the lights in the evening. They like good water flow.

 

[86 ssinit]

I don’t know a few danios 4 corys and 2 yo-yo’s in a 75 and the ammonia is climbing? What type of substrate did you use? When you get your api master kit also test your tap water. Let it sit for 24hrs and retest it.
What type of filter are you using? How many other tanks do you have and how big are they? Change water! 30g every day or if you can’t every other day. Clean water will keep your fish healthy. How many danios. How do the corys and yo-yo’s look? They’re bottom dwellers and when things go bad they are usually the first to show it. Danios could have been sick when you got them.

 

[Curtchuk]

I’ve removed the Danios and things really levelled out, thought I saved the Danios by moving to one of the mature tanks but over a couple days I lost two of them. Other than those loses everything has been ok. I been changing out 18 gallons a day on average, had a couple 30 gallon changes in there when things got hairy but it seems ok now, have ammonia but it’s quite low less than .25ppm, I’m now seeing a little change in colour on the Nitrate tests. Still haven’t got my master test kit from Amazon will be this weekend. So four Corys, one snail and two YoYo loaches. I’m gonna leave things be and maybe in a week add another fish or two.

 

[RayClem]

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia? Many communities have started disinfecting the water with chloramine because it lasts a lot longer than chlorine. The chloramine is typically made by adding 1 ppm ammonia to 3 ppm chlorine. If your tap water contains chloramine, you will be adding ammonia to the tank every time you do a water change.

Water conditioners/dechlorinators are typically based on sodium thiosulfate which acts as a reducing agent. It will split the chloramine molecule into chlorine and ammonia molecules. Then it will reduce the toxic chlorine to chloride ions which as non-toxic. However, these conditioners do nothing to the ammonia. The beneficial microorganisms in your tank have to convert the ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates. Once the tank is well established, that is normally not an issue as there are plenty of bacteria to do that. Early in the cycle, however, the bacteria colonies are still getting established.

 

[Curtchuk]

Yes I understand what your saying and aware of this things from researching much of these things. The tap water doesn’t show any ammonia I’ve checked this some time ago while having issues with Cory fry dying off once they hit the three week period, it wasn’t the cause but I looked pretty close at my tap water it’s actually pretty good. It’s just gonna take a little
time I don’t have a good colony of bacteria as of yet but it’s definitely getting there as my ammonia is stable and dropping. I am a little worried about the Nitrate levels I’m chomping at the bit here waiting for my test kit to show up. I’m the mean time I’m still doing 25-30% water changes daily and so far I feel pretty good about where things are at.
I think I’ve accepted I can’t speed up the nitrogen cycle, can help things along but it’s got to do it’s thing and I gotta wait…maybe don’t add 11 fish after the first 10-14 days and take it slow

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

Thats a lot of food for fish-in cycling

It's a tricky business doing fish-in cycling in alkaline waters, need to add some ammonia source but not enough to kill fish

I do very tiny amounts of food, just 1 bite each every 3 days, and gradually ramp up. But even then I may still lose fish.

If you want to be really safe, about 3 danios for a 75g is what I used to cycle a tank that size and all 3 survived.

 

[Curtchuk]

YES! Exactly what I was thinking maybe three or four alone would have been just fine…but I’m impatient fish head with A.D.D lol

 

[RayClem]

I think I’ve accepted I can’t speed up the nitrogen cycle, can help things along but it’s got to do it’s thing and I gotta wait…maybe don’t add 11 fish after the first 10-14 days and take it slow

As Professor Henry Higgins stated in the play My Fair Lady "By George, I think she's got it".

Even if you use seeded media from an established aquarium, it is still going to take several weeks before the bacterial colonies are fully established in a new one. We live in a fast paced society where things seem to move at the speed of electrons. However, biological processes move at a far more casual pace.

 

[Curtchuk]

Well these are some welcome results

 

[StarGirl]

Still a slight hint of Nitrites. Doesnt seem to have much for Nitrate yet. Getting closer though!

 

[86 ssinit]

Looks good. Nitrite is hard to tell. Looks like it could be 0. Is the ph the high range? If so try the low range and see what it is.

 

[Curtchuk]

Little hard to tell from the pic but the ph is showing 7.8, a low test is always the max. I don’t bother trying to adjust the ph, don’t want to be chasing that around. Our average ph is 7.53 as per the latest city water tests. Believe the range we see depending where and when in the city the water comes from is 6.84 to 7.92. Although I occasionally test out of curiosity seen 7.6 to 7.8 out of my taps

 

[86 ssinit]

Have you ever let it sit for 24hrs and retest?

 

[Curtchuk]

I test about every 12 hrs right now on the new tank, my other tanks very rarely

 

[Blacksheep1]

The only thing to suggest here that is logical is 50% water changes when ammonia and nitrite reach a combined 0.5 together. Or just daily as it’s sometimes easier and safer than testing. You’re not far off cycled , don’t touch media , just water out and fresh in, jobs a good un

 

[RayClem]

There is no need to test every 12 hours. Doing so is a sign that you are anxious. Relax.

When I got into the hobby over 6 decades ago, we did not even have 10% of the stuff currently found in local fish stores. When I set up my first tank, the only filters were either inside tank corner filters or sponge filters driven by an air pump. The very first motorized HOB filter, the Metaframe Dynaflo Motor Filter, was not available until a few years later. There were no tests for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. We did have litmus paper and bromothymol blue to test for pH. We purchased photographers "hypo" (sodium thiosulfate) to dechlorinate tap water. Nobody had a clue about the nitrogen cycle in aquariums. We treated diseases with aquarium salt, hydrogen peroxide, and potassium permanganate rather than antibiotics. Yet, somehow, fish lived and reproduced in our tanks. Be patient and allow nature to take its course. Fishkeeping is supposed to be fun, not stressful.

 

[Curtchuk]

I don’t recall my parents doing anything like I am in the 80’s when we had fish so yeah I get what your saying Ray.
Since I got the technology may as well use it right? Don’t get me wrong I love the hobby and the challenges sometimes, just don’t like losing stock so If I can stay on top of the toxins may as well.
Good news is I haven’t had an increase of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate in over 24 hrs now things are good at the moment, so Im going to add another couple fish this evening and give it a few days. I have 5 Columbian Tetras, 15 Bronze Corys, 5 Zebra Danios and 1 clown pleco to get in that tank it’s going to take a while.
I will relax when they are all in there , I can take a seat pour a stiff one and watch em do their thing.

 

[Fishfur]

There is no need to test every 12 hours. Doing so is a sign that you are anxious. Relax.

When I got into the hobby over 6 decades ago, we did not even have 10% of the stuff currently found in local fish stores. When I set up my first tank, the only filters were either inside tank corner filters or sponge filters driven by an air pump. The very first motorized HOB filter, the Metaframe Dynaflo Motor Filter, was not available until a few years later. There were no tests for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. We did have litmus paper and bromothymol blue to test for pH. We purchased photographers "hypo" (sodium thiosulfate) to dechlorinate tap water. Nobody had a clue about the nitrogen cycle in aquariums. We treated diseases with aquarium salt, hydrogen peroxide, and potassium permanganate rather than antibiotics. Yet, somehow, fish lived and reproduced in our tanks. Be patient and allow nature to take its course. Fishkeeping is supposed to be fun, not stressful.

I started keeping fish when I was around 12 years old, smack in the middle of the 1960s. I got a 29g for Christmas with the fancy HOB plus a UGF (undergravel filter) and I didn’t have a clue about sodium thiosulfate so I left water out to gas off the chlorine. Chloramine didn’t exist in tap water yet and I never bothered to test pH though my Dad had litmus paper if I’d wanted to use it.

Filter floss was made from finely spun fibreglass and one had to handle it quite carefully to avoid itching like mad for days afterward with tiny glass fragments stuck in your hands or arms or worst of all your face, if you were careless. Only did that once .

To clean that HOB filter you were supposed to throw away the fibreglass and the activated carbon it contained and replace it all and though we didn’t know it at the time, the UGF was doing the bio filtration.

Despite all that the fish mostly did fine - I had a mated pair of Angelfish that regularly spawned and no doubt made life difficult for the rest of the fish which included one Cory cat, one kuhli loach, 3 tiger barbs and a few livebearers .

After I graduated from college I eventually found I didn’t have enough time to enjoy or care for the tank and sold off the fish, including the angelfish pair and the loach, who all had to be 11 or 12 years old by then.

I don’t recall ever having a sick fish , or Ich or anything like it - lucky me I guess.

Point being, as RayClem says - it’s really not necessary to obsess over testing and patience definitely pays.

Keeping fish is supposed to bring pleasure, not just be an additional stress in life.