Fish gasping for air
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Actually I switched to RO because my nitrates are anywhere from 20-80 in my tap. I used to use a filter I ordered through the U.K. that filtered them all out of my tap but it was slow and I got tired of recharging them every month which was a process all by itself.
Lots of plants will help them not rise much more than that but starting out so high is stressful for your fish.
API Nitra Zorb might be a way to go. It is an ion-exchange filter insert that you re-charge with a few tablespoons of salt, its very easy. It should be able to lower them by 20 or so, maybe more. If you buy two packs you can always have one in your filter. It also absorbs ammonia and nitrites but more so of nitrates.
Lots of plants will help them not rise much more than that but starting out so high is stressful for your fish.
API Nitra Zorb might be a way to go. It is an ion-exchange filter insert that you re-charge with a few tablespoons of salt, its very easy. It should be able to lower them by 20 or so, maybe more. If you buy two packs you can always have one in your filter. It also absorbs ammonia and nitrites but more so of nitrates.
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I have observed readings of 10-40ppm nitrates in my tap. The higher results were in summer and lower in winter. I used Purigen to help with nitrates, but it isn't going to help as much as you need. You will need lots of live plants (aquatic or land), and keep on top of water changes. I do 70-80% water change each week, sometimes twice a week in the summer months when nitrates are high. You have to come to terms with the fact that your nitrates will never be as low as they should be. It is on you to do what is necessary to keep them as low as you can. If you don't go with an RO filter, then you will be doing lots of large water changes. Also don't try to keep any real sensitive fish, they won't be able to tolerate the higher nitrate levels (based on my experience). I have 21 live plants and still get nitrate readings in excess of 40ppm every week. It seems you need a really matured, densely planted, tank to have big effects on nitrates. Until then its keeping up with water changes.
There is some filter media out there that claims to reduce nitrates. I mentioned Seachem Purigen, but that won't be up to the job. I have heard good things about Biohome media having good results of reducing nitrates.
There is some filter media out there that claims to reduce nitrates. I mentioned Seachem Purigen, but that won't be up to the job. I have heard good things about Biohome media having good results of reducing nitrates.
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I couldn't find it on their website, maybe they have quit making it? I did find what I think is the identical product through their company Instant Ocean. It is called "Natural Nitrate Reducer".
I'd try it! Might give it a try myself. Anything that requires less maintenance is worth trying.
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I saw that but if you look for people who are selling it, like on Amazon they are shipped from the U.K.. Its no longer on their main Tetra product page which is weird. I haven't checked Big Al's or Pet Mountain etc though.
I sent them an email to see if the Instant Ocean product is the same. Will let you know what they say.
I sent them an email to see if the Instant Ocean product is the same. Will let you know what they say.
If you have, or will have, live plants (either aquatic or land), I would be concerned about the part that says "considerably inhibits algae growth by removing their main source of nutrients."
I'm not sure on the science of that, how it removes it, and what exactly is removed, but I would think that it would remove the same nutrients that plants need, since they use mostly the same nutrients.
I think most people on here would agree, the less "un-natural" and man-made products we add to our tanks, the best. While this product may seem like a good idea to help your problem, there are other avenues to explore before going this route. Check out Seachems advanced line of products, called Aquavitro. The Remediation and Seed products have shown some good results from some on here and in general the reviews are positive, many report nitrates staying at 0, even in tanks with no plants. While these are man-made products in the sense that they are bottled and sold, their contents are naturally occurring bacteria that exist in the wild. It is no different that using a product like TSS or Seachem Stability, other than the fact that is a more advanced product that isn't a mainstream product you find in Petco or Petsmart. If you have live plants, or will have in the future, they also have a line of plant fertilizers that have good reviews. You can check out this Seachem brand at.. The 2 product I recommended are under Products > Conditioners
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A good point for sure. At Doctors Foster and Smith they said they called regarding the Natural Nitrate Reducer made by Instant ocean a part of Tetra's family of products and they said its perfectly fine for freshwater also.
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Yes, RO filters basically remove all impurities from your tap water. Just so you know, that RO filter system produces 50 gallons of filtered water per day, which is about 2 gallons an hour. I forget the size of your tank, if you mentioned it, but be aware of how long this will need to run on a faucet to get enough water for a water change. You will also need a large container to store the water in as its filtered. Then you will need products to re-mineralize the water and get your hardness up to the range that is needed.
Quick update on this. Got a couple of air stones delivered today and it seems to have worked a treat. No more fish at the top of the tank. Much quieter than expected too!
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Seriously look into your stocking levels, feeding, and the amount and regularity of your water changes.
To use these so called " wonder fixes " to remove Nitrates is a nonsense.
All of them will only work as a " band aid " for the real problems, and are not a long term solution.
To use these so called " wonder fixes " to remove Nitrates is a nonsense.
All of them will only work as a " band aid " for the real problems, and are not a long term solution.
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Though I think there could be some things out there that don't work, I know that ion exchange resins work great (which is what a lot of them are). The other product is an anaerobic bacterial additive that is supposed to seed in the substrate. I think of it like using TSS or something to cycle. You're jump starting what you would possibly get from a sand bed anyways.
Yes you're right though to always think of your stocking, feeding and water changes. The OP has high nitrates in his tap though.
I don't think any of this is an issue. I have 4 small fish in a 25g and feed once daily. The issue is that the water I'm putting in is high in nitrates, so even daily water changes wouldn't reduce the levels.
What I need is a way of reducing the nitrates before I put the water in to keep the levels low. I have time and patience to do regular changes just they're of no use if the water I'm putting in is already high
One thing you could try doing is an aquaponics system. Google/youtube search for aquaponics system with fish tank and there are some videos that explain how to do it and some people have had great success doing that to remove nitrates as land plants (especially veggies and herbs) absorb a ton of nitrates.
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Ok, so after reading a bunch of reviews and also that Drs Foster and Smith spoke to Instant Ocean who said its fine for fresh water tanks as well, I added in the first dose last night (weekly dosing until your nitrates stay at 0 according to the directions). I'll probably start a new thread but will let you know if it works.
That's great, thanks. I've just ordered API NitraZorb. Have heard good things, once that's arrived I'll also feed back results
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API Nitra-Zorb works great!! I have that also. I re-charge it weekly. Hopefully you bought the size 6? Its the only one that can be re-charged as far as I know.
For now, I removed it and what I want to see is if this product actually seeds the bacteria that will convert nitrate to nitrogen gas which then leaves through the air. I'm trying this because it would require no maintenance so we'll see.
My fish are no longer gasping however ammonia levels still showing between 0-0.26, not 0.
Tap water has zero ammonia in. POA is to dose with safe start as I have enough left over to dose the whole tank again.
No harm in doing this I assume ?
Tap water has zero ammonia in. POA is to dose with safe start as I have enough left over to dose the whole tank again.
No harm in doing this I assume ?
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First post here, been lurking for awhile. My issue: Besides high ammonia or nitrites, what else can cause the fish to gather toward the top and gasp?
This happened to me last night. I noticed a couple of snails made their way out as well. I immediately did a 50% water change, and the behavior stopped right away. The snails made their way back in.
Ammonia is zero, Nitrites are 0 or 0.25ppm (I just can't tell on the API color chart), Nitrates were high at 40-80ppm (again, test chart colors are too close for me.)
The only thing I can think is that this is a lightly planted tank and the day before I accidentally dosed a capful of Seachem Nitrogen, thinking it was the Prime bottle, as I was doing a 25% water change. (They're the same size.) I never use the N, it's just been sitting there. So the nitrates were high but not off the charts.
Is there something else that can cause this behavior? Are 80ppm high nitrates enough to send the fish gasping? I didn't think nitrates actually caused this particular behavior. I'm worried there might be something else lurking I didn't think of.
Thanks for the advice!!!
Background:
38-gallon freshwater tank - I took over from a friend a couple years ago
Stocking: 15+ platys (from the original 6 ugh), 2 mollys, 6 tetras, 2 6" balas (yes working on finding them a new home), 1 dwarf plecco and 2 cory cats. 6 nerite snails. I had 2 Gouramis I have lost over the course of the year.
Filtration: Big canister filter (Aquatop CF for up to 120 gal) + sponge filter
Planted as best I can
This happened to me last night. I noticed a couple of snails made their way out as well. I immediately did a 50% water change, and the behavior stopped right away. The snails made their way back in.
Ammonia is zero, Nitrites are 0 or 0.25ppm (I just can't tell on the API color chart), Nitrates were high at 40-80ppm (again, test chart colors are too close for me.)
The only thing I can think is that this is a lightly planted tank and the day before I accidentally dosed a capful of Seachem Nitrogen, thinking it was the Prime bottle, as I was doing a 25% water change. (They're the same size.) I never use the N, it's just been sitting there. So the nitrates were high but not off the charts.
Is there something else that can cause this behavior? Are 80ppm high nitrates enough to send the fish gasping? I didn't think nitrates actually caused this particular behavior. I'm worried there might be something else lurking I didn't think of.
Thanks for the advice!!!
Background:
38-gallon freshwater tank - I took over from a friend a couple years ago
Stocking: 15+ platys (from the original 6 ugh), 2 mollys, 6 tetras, 2 6" balas (yes working on finding them a new home), 1 dwarf plecco and 2 cory cats. 6 nerite snails. I had 2 Gouramis I have lost over the course of the year.
Filtration: Big canister filter (Aquatop CF for up to 120 gal) + sponge filter
Planted as best I can
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Did a 50% change last night and a 25% this afternoon. Everyone is acting normal now... Nitrates are now between 5-20 (I don't know what kind of color perception you need to read these charts, but, I don't have it. 10 and 20 look exactly the same to me.)
jdhef, now that you mention it, yes, I forgot! I have a sponge filter run on a bubbler. And it was off last night, because I was trying to give the plants a chance to grow better and I'd been told the bubbler off-gasses CO2. So I was going to try awhile without. Everyone in the planted tank forums talks about how you don't need a bubbler etc etc, and that it doesn't really change the oxygen level in the water. My canister filter spray bar outputs a lot of force anyway, which keeps the water rippling but not breaking on top, so I thought I'd be fine.
So I dunno, I guess I will keep the sponge filter/bubbler on from now on. The plants will have to deal it.
jdhef, now that you mention it, yes, I forgot! I have a sponge filter run on a bubbler. And it was off last night, because I was trying to give the plants a chance to grow better and I'd been told the bubbler off-gasses CO2. So I was going to try awhile without. Everyone in the planted tank forums talks about how you don't need a bubbler etc etc, and that it doesn't really change the oxygen level in the water. My canister filter spray bar outputs a lot of force anyway, which keeps the water rippling but not breaking on top, so I thought I'd be fine.
So I dunno, I guess I will keep the sponge filter/bubbler on from now on. The plants will have to deal it.
Hey Avalanche, I thought someone would catch that But I did follow up with Prime immediately on that water change, I caught my mistake.
I justt use Flourish Excel once a week, and alternate weekly with Flourish and Flourish Trace. I do 20% water change weekly.
I've single-bag Purigen in the filter (in lieu of any carbon), and the bio media is Matrix.
Chaory: thanks for the tip, I think I need to just find a friend who isn't so red-green colorblind to read these for me.
So, it started again. I had just tested a couple hours before and got Ammonia 0 / Nitrites 0 / Nitrates 10ish. In the meantime, I'd forgotten to take the bubbler off the timer. It probably turned off at like, 8pm. By 11pm, they were at the top looking like they were trying to eat with nothing up there.
I turned the bubbler back on and ripped out the timer, and they didn't stop so I did a 30% water change. Most have stopped but a couple are still up to it.
I notice it's only the livebearers, and not the tetras or balas. They don't look like they are desperate or stressed, like, sortof casually at the top with their mouths up their the surface. Is this gasping behavior?
Anyway I've got the lots of bubbles in the tank now and my spray bar going above the surface too. Hopefully that'll solve it... :-/
I justt use Flourish Excel once a week, and alternate weekly with Flourish and Flourish Trace. I do 20% water change weekly.
I've single-bag Purigen in the filter (in lieu of any carbon), and the bio media is Matrix.
Chaory: thanks for the tip, I think I need to just find a friend who isn't so red-green colorblind to read these for me.
So, it started again. I had just tested a couple hours before and got Ammonia 0 / Nitrites 0 / Nitrates 10ish. In the meantime, I'd forgotten to take the bubbler off the timer. It probably turned off at like, 8pm. By 11pm, they were at the top looking like they were trying to eat with nothing up there.
I turned the bubbler back on and ripped out the timer, and they didn't stop so I did a 30% water change. Most have stopped but a couple are still up to it.
I notice it's only the livebearers, and not the tetras or balas. They don't look like they are desperate or stressed, like, sortof casually at the top with their mouths up their the surface. Is this gasping behavior?
Anyway I've got the lots of bubbles in the tank now and my spray bar going above the surface too. Hopefully that'll solve it... :-/
Hey Joe thanks for posting in Fishlore, are water conditioners added prior to topping up/what's the ph value? As they have some instant effects over the livestock.
In the earlier post, nitrogen was introduced - that may have affected the dissolved oxygen in the water competing with live stock that may resulted in the surface activity - I maybe wrong too
In the earlier post, nitrogen was introduced - that may have affected the dissolved oxygen in the water competing with live stock that may resulted in the surface activity - I maybe wrong too
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I don't think it was the Seachem Nitrogen. If you have detectable nitrates you probably don't ever need to use it.
One possibility is O2 depletion at night when lights are off. This easily ruled out if the surface breathing ever occurred during the day.
I'd want to test pH and/or kH.
Flourish Excel can cause this but I would expect it to happen after dosing it.
I would stop using Excel and any other glutaraldehyde product. It's highly toxic to fish and even low dosages can cause all kinds of strange symptoms in your fish.
I have had gasping at the surface twice in the last year.
Time 1: pH crash caused (it eventually turned out) by low kH levels. My pH dropped from 7.6 to 6.8 when I caught it by seeing them all gasping at the surface.
Time 2: Random nitrites spike last weekend, where the fish were revived by water changes every 12 hours x 3 total.
Since you are testing 0 for nitrites, I would say check your pH. Also - if water changes are improving things.. keep up with them! Sorry - it is SO frustrating when you an't figure it out (never did figure out what caused my nitrite spike despite a wealth of fishlore brain power on the problem).
Time 1: pH crash caused (it eventually turned out) by low kH levels. My pH dropped from 7.6 to 6.8 when I caught it by seeing them all gasping at the surface.
Time 2: Random nitrites spike last weekend, where the fish were revived by water changes every 12 hours x 3 total.
Since you are testing 0 for nitrites, I would say check your pH. Also - if water changes are improving things.. keep up with them! Sorry - it is SO frustrating when you an't figure it out (never did figure out what caused my nitrite spike despite a wealth of fishlore brain power on the problem).
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Reading from the first OP
Corydoras need at least a school of six
nitrates I would lower down to 10-20ppm rather than 40ppm, go regular 50 percent water changes weekly if you didn't do that already. Nitrite if it was .25ppm try to get 0ppm I know the tests are difficult to read lol. Try to fix that stocking though, also lower your temp to a steady 75 degrees according to the fish you have in your tank. Do you know your gKH and gGH?
If you add to much.
Corydoras need at least a school of six
nitrates I would lower down to 10-20ppm rather than 40ppm, go regular 50 percent water changes weekly if you didn't do that already. Nitrite if it was .25ppm try to get 0ppm I know the tests are difficult to read lol. Try to fix that stocking though, also lower your temp to a steady 75 degrees according to the fish you have in your tank. Do you know your gKH and gGH?
I would like to point out though that this isn't true. metricide and excel use glutaraldehyde and It isn't "poisonous or toxic" to fish. If you pour a unrecommend amount you are going to get bad results then. I don't personally use excel anymore since it provides false carbon basically, but I used to.
If you add to much.
I'm sorry may have read off wrongly of the nitrogen supplement as a bacteria boost solution for filtration kick start. Yup have to agree it can be quite frustrating trying to figure out what's going on with the water parameters.
The feeling that we get when we finally discover the cause can be overwhelming. Had similar experience with gasping was of water conditioner efficiency during water change.
Another was of addition of live bacteria booster according to dosage as it depletes the dissolved oxygen. For me filtration stability plays an essential part & it's so good reading from everyone's perspective.
The feeling that we get when we finally discover the cause can be overwhelming. Had similar experience with gasping was of water conditioner efficiency during water change.
Another was of addition of live bacteria booster according to dosage as it depletes the dissolved oxygen. For me filtration stability plays an essential part & it's so good reading from everyone's perspective.
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Glutaraldehyde is used in industry as a biocide so it's literally a poison to everything from viruses to mammals. It's one of the chemicals injected during fracking to control growth of microorganisms. It's used in pulp processing to control growth of microorganisms. It's used in hospitals to sanitize things such as endoscopes. It's been studied several times as a candidate toxin to poison any hitchhiking aquatic organisms (plankton, algae, seaweed, invertebrates, and fish) in the ballast water of ships.
There's probably a dosage low enough that no fish in any aquarium will be killed or injured. That dosage is almost certainly well below the recommended dosage. People using the recommended dosage or less have had fish in respiratory distress and even mass deaths.
It's not possible to predict when glutaraldehyde will kill fish. All that's known is that it's more toxic at higher temperatures and in environments with fewer microorganisms and organic compounds. Sulfur compounds similar to dechlorinators are used to neutralize glutaraldehyde so some tanks with residual dechlorinator may be getting what's effectively a lower dose.
Thanks everyone for all the valuable information to consider. I'd been doing 40-50% water changes daily since first posting, but haven't done a change in the past 4 days.
pH is 8.0 now (same as tap). Used to be closer to 7.6.
GH is 120, kH 80
Ammonia, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 10-20
Temp 77
It's also true that this was only happening at night after the lights had gone low. They're getting lots of bubbling and surface agitation now and I haven't seen the behavior again (since the 2nd time.)
DutchMutch Re temp, I had picked 77 as a midpoint between the temps I read for the fish I had stocked. Is there an overall benefit to going lower?
@AvalanceDave I'll def consider the info you provided on Excel and look more closely at that.
pH is 8.0 now (same as tap). Used to be closer to 7.6.
GH is 120, kH 80
Ammonia, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 10-20
Temp 77
It's also true that this was only happening at night after the lights had gone low. They're getting lots of bubbling and surface agitation now and I haven't seen the behavior again (since the 2nd time.)
DutchMutch Re temp, I had picked 77 as a midpoint between the temps I read for the fish I had stocked. Is there an overall benefit to going lower?
@AvalanceDave I'll def consider the info you provided on Excel and look more closely at that.
Hi,
I am new to posting in these forums but have consulted them many times for help.
I am having an issue with my fish gasping and am not sure what is causing it.
My tank is a 38 gallon bow front tank, inside there is one angelfish about 2.5 in long, a gold severum about 3 in long, a bolivian ram about 2 in long and a bristlenose pleco about 2 in long. This tank is setup with the intention of upgrading when the fish grow too large for it. My water has a ph of around 6.6, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and under 20 nitrates. My water is right around 80 degrees. Last night I noticed my severum scrape as if he had ich but I cannot see any spots. Knowing from experience how much of a pain that can be I removed the carbon from the filter and treated the tank for ich. This morning I woke up to the fish gasping (the ram gasping much more than the others). I changed 10 gallons of water this morning. I am not sure what is causing the fish to gasp.
Please let me know if there is any more information I can provide. Thanks
I am new to posting in these forums but have consulted them many times for help.
I am having an issue with my fish gasping and am not sure what is causing it.
My tank is a 38 gallon bow front tank, inside there is one angelfish about 2.5 in long, a gold severum about 3 in long, a bolivian ram about 2 in long and a bristlenose pleco about 2 in long. This tank is setup with the intention of upgrading when the fish grow too large for it. My water has a ph of around 6.6, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and under 20 nitrates. My water is right around 80 degrees. Last night I noticed my severum scrape as if he had ich but I cannot see any spots. Knowing from experience how much of a pain that can be I removed the carbon from the filter and treated the tank for ich. This morning I woke up to the fish gasping (the ram gasping much more than the others). I changed 10 gallons of water this morning. I am not sure what is causing the fish to gasp.
Please let me know if there is any more information I can provide. Thanks
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What medication did you use? Some ich meds will effect the oxygen levels in the water. I would do a 50% water change and add an air stone.
I find it much easier to treat ich with heat rather than meds, as some meds kill the beneficial bacteria and some of the more fragile fish don't take well to the medication. By raising the temp to 86-88 F and keeping it there for a week or two it will naturally kill off the ich. The only downside is the warm will holds less oxygen, so you need to keep an air stone going.
I find it much easier to treat ich with heat rather than meds, as some meds kill the beneficial bacteria and some of the more fragile fish don't take well to the medication. By raising the temp to 86-88 F and keeping it there for a week or two it will naturally kill off the ich. The only downside is the warm will holds less oxygen, so you need to keep an air stone going.
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Should never treat a tank for anything unless you know for sure what your treating for it can do more harm then good.
As said I'd do a 50% water change and if you have any powerheads aI'm them at the surface to increase the O2 levels.
As said I'd do a 50% water change and if you have any powerheads aI'm them at the surface to increase the O2 levels.
Hi! Welcome the forum! It does look like you have a parasite infection with the fish rubbing on objects, but, because you do not see indications of Ich (which is quite noticeable). I am thinking that's not what you are dealing with.
I would do as others have suggested, do a large water change which will take some of the parasite load out of water column and add an air-stone.
I have a lot of questions:
How long tank set up/ Any new additions?
Are there red areas on the gills? Have you noticed any gasping prior to this morning along with the rubbing?
What Ich treatment did you use?
Do you have a quarantine tank?
I would do as others have suggested, do a large water change which will take some of the parasite load out of water column and add an air-stone.
I have a lot of questions:
How long tank set up/ Any new additions?
Are there red areas on the gills? Have you noticed any gasping prior to this morning along with the rubbing?
What Ich treatment did you use?
Do you have a quarantine tank?
Random Great Topic!
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