Conundrum: new short plants & red eyes that need tall cover

[ruud]

So plants did better in your vases, eh?

Pretty much all plant issues are related to light intensity and CO2. And the relation between the two. Minerals account for a lot less.

 

[aquanata]

Thank you both! aquanata and TClare! I actually hope something WILL help (that I can buy lol) bc the plants looked good in the vases and not so much now. So I’m hoping TClare suggestion of macro and micro thrive could help? I would rather use nothing else than what I have already purchased (of course haha). Here’s the question: if I do use Thrive, what to do about the tons of flourish tabs already in? I won’t add more with the new plants but there are a lot in there. I was told to use less than rec but again that went by the wayside when I moved them around. I just don’t know what I’m doing wrong! It could DEF be my lighting and I should ask on a chihiros thread maybe for an exact set up? none of my old lights worked for plants so I hope this one will!! The room has a ton of ambient light—more light than the plants got in the vases! So I mean is it really the lighting? I’m having a conversation with myself at this point huh. Here are the current QT plants View attachment 873354View attachment 873355
Do you think current tank pics would work for a go fund me to get a certain Brit stateside? Bc look at the local scalers for hire. . View attachment 873357

Vals, java fern & ?. I'd be focusing on light a bit more tho. Again, no expertise here but everything grows. I think the root tabs provide a different kind of fertilization than the water column ferts like thrive or fluorish that to my bare understanding, mostly feed stem plants. When I did feed fluorish, I fed half recommended only every other week or so, for the Ludwigia & Hygrophila. I grew algae until the rest of the plants took off & it seemed the stems throve without fluorish.

But the lighting made the biggest difference I think. Not understanding how to program my nicrew LEDs, I use what I think is 80-100% light for 8-10 hrs a day, split in two shifts w/a four hour gap between in 3 of my tanks. Those are the outright impenetrable jungles. The small tank with 2-25 watt fluorescents has 1/2 the growth as those w/high full spectrum. Before I used LEDs, I used full spectrum lights for terrestrial plants w/similar high growth results. Programming for higher light output might be the stimulus you need more than extra ferts.

 

[TClare]

Regarding the fertiliser, I was thinking you were using flourish liquid. So as you have the root tabs in already try to get a fertiliser with only macronutrients (N, P and K).

I am not sure but I wonder if it would help to lower the water level temporarily so that some leaves can reach the surface and have more access to light and CO2?

 

[KribensisLover1]

Regarding the fertiliser, I was thinking you were using flourish liquid. So as you have the root tabs in already try to get a fertiliser with only macronutrients (N, P and K).

I am not sure but I wonder if it would help to lower the water level temporarily so that some leaves can reach the surface and have more access to light and CO2?

I can do that! And thank you all! One issue is that this light is SO strong I was scared to leave it on. Would you recommend:
a.) low levels for many hours (I have it on for 6 but an hour long ramp up and down)
b.) 6 hours but full brightness
c.) full brightness many hours

I’ll show a screenshot of the options they give that shows intensity, of which I can also customize and have to very low settings.


This is a rec below from a chihiros fb group. Not sure if this means anything to anybody but I’m thinking it will!!
Also I’m not being lazy, now that I’m realizing it’s lighting (maybe I’m slow on the uptake) I’ll be looking into this a lot.

 

[ruud]

I know I criticize a lot, but someone has to do it.

The difference between a cheap light and an expensive light where you can tweak all those spectral settings is negligible. It’s fun to go into the biology of this, but perhaps in another thread.

It does have impact on the looks of course, I mean compare 6500K light versus 5000K, but to plants; it hardly matters at all.

OK, it could be that certain spectral signatures trigger plants to alter their response in a way. Repeat: alter their response. This is the part that is completely ignored by hobbyists: plants adapt to whatever you throw at them.

Plants don’t grow any better, just because someone uses expensive Kessill lights for example.

The best way to proceed is dimming the lights massively. If you would take the role of intensity out of the equation, duration doesn’t matter. What shortening of the duration does, is that it actually reduces the intensity in a very abrupt way.

It is the same with applying light siestas. This is supposed to affect algae and not plants. This is simply not possible. Both have the same pigments, both have a circadian rhythm. But algae process CO2 much more efficiently. Hence, algae are much more flexible than plants to cope with siestas. But what a siesta does, is that it lowers the light intensity.

Sorry for the rant.

People focus on plant growth. So they create good conditions for plants. But what is good to plants is ALWAYS good to algae.

Hence, I tell people, not to focus on plant growth, but rather, focus on "not dying".

The goal is to create very suboptimal conditions for plants. Conditions in which growth is not favored. But neither it is to algae.

Light intensity is the most important factor. Plants are perfectly able to deal with low intensities as long as some photosynthesis is possible. Because the light is so dim they will invest in the production of a certain enzyme that helps them to deal with the low influx of CO2.

If light intensity would be strong, a conflict appears, because the resources required to produce this enzyme are also required to produce certain pigmentation that helps them to protect against the intense light.

Bright lights with low CO2 is like turning on a filter without water.

Fast forward, once a tank has more plant biomass (by adding more plants over time) and matures (symbiosis of plants and microbes; fixed fluctuations in parameters), your degrees of freedom go up and you can increase the intensity of your lights.

 

[TClare]

Honestly I don't have a clue about those light settings. I use home LED flood lights varying from 10 to 50W in different combinations, depending on the tank size, I can't even dim them. On one tank the lights are 5000K, the others have 6500K. Plants grow fine in all of them, I actually like the look of the 5000K best.

And I can back up what ruud says with an example. For a while I had a tank set up in an upstairs room, it was for quarantine for some new Apistogrammas, it measures 70 x 50 x50 cm but I did not have it full to the top. It had mostly twigs and leaf litter but I had put some small Vallisneria and Heteranthera from other tanks in there as well as water lettuce which I removed most of to catch the fish. The substrate is river sand and I never used fertilizer. When I moved the fish, just before Christmas, I switched everything off - heater, filter and lights. The tank gets some light during the day from a window, but not direct sunlight. I left the water in the tank (not full) and forgot about it, not going into that room as it is my daughter's and she is studying in Germany now. The other day I went to the room to get something and noticed that the plants, though still quite small, were growing and looked healthy, with no visible algae in the tank. Snails are still fine too!

 

[KribensisLover1]

Thank you! And critique, pls! I honeslty got these lights for two main reasons: to hang and to make the tank look great. Hence why a few months after I got it, the lighting settings just occurred to me. This makes me sound dumb; I don’t really care. Here to learn! Not to pretend I know! Thank you! Here are the settings I’ve been using and I guess I’ll keep!
I would much prefer plants that are simply not dying and no algae to the opposite—esp with an acrylic tank that’s tough to clean!
As long as these plants aren’t ACTIVELY dying I’m fine. I just can’t tell the difference!

 

[Wendybrass]

All of this is above my paygrade. BUT what Ruud said about once you have more plants in a no CO2 added tank is key. This guy, MD Aquatics, link attached, has gorgeous planted tanks, low tech. He basically says exactly that, get enough plants in there at the outset, include nutrients and let the plants get established and growing. They'll out compete algea if there's enough of them. He uses basic lights. MD Aquatics guppy tank set-up

 

[aquanata]

All of this is above my paygrade. BUT what Ruud said about once you have more plants in a no CO2 added tank is key. This guy, link attached, has gorgeous planted tanks, low tech. He basically says exactly that, get enough plants in there at the outset, include nutrients and let the plants get established and growing. They'll out compete algea if there's enough of them. He uses basic lights.

Agree here & like his vids. It was game over for algae for the most part, the more plants I added & the plants throve. What little algae remains the snails mostly eat. My nicrew lights were a pass-on from a fellow aquarist & I've never figured out programming them. Growth hasn't changed with them, but they're handier to lay tongs across than clip-on terrestrials. I do a "siesta" because nobody is around to fish view midday. TIL about intensity!

 

[KribensisLover1]

Agree here & like his vids. It was game over for algae for the most part, the more plants I added & the plants throve. What little algae remains the snails mostly eat. My nicrew lights were a pass-on from a fellow aquarist & I've never figured out programming them. Growth hasn't changed with them, but they're handier to lay tongs across than clip-on terrestrials. I do a "siesta" because nobody is around to fish view midday. TIL about intensity!

Well funnt you say that bc for all this light cost it can’t set up two times like my old dimmer I got for my nicrew. I mean I work from home and I can easily set a timer myself and do it but it’s just funny. Also for some reason my tank is HOT like 82. I turned the heat down and it’s still hot. I hope the tetras are ok! But again the real question is: are the plants NOT dying or are they dying? That’s the question. Bc if they’re just holding on that’s great. If they’re actively dying well that’s not.

 

[Wendybrass]

Agree here & like his vids. It was game over for algae for the most part, the more plants I added & the plants throve. What little algae remains the snails mostly eat. My nicrew lights were a pass-on from a fellow aquarist & I've never figured out programming them. Growth hasn't changed with them, but they're handier to lay tongs across than clip-on terrestrials. I do a "siesta" because nobody is around to fish view midday. TIL about intensity!

And you have jungles, so the proof is in the pudding. Light intensity and that whole ferts/lights/algea dance is the price we pay for too few plants in a low tech tank. I wish I'd seen this guy before I set up my tank. Mind you I started with a fair number of plants, I just didn't know how to keep them alive. Some of my stem plants were doing great for a while and then they simply ran out of nutrients. It was after losing some plants that I started struggling with algea. I didn't put 2+2 together, had no idea. I'm just starting to figure it out, sort of. Dumbed down, in a planted low tech tank, if I'm understanding this correctly, more is key. Lights will make a difference on how quickly things grow. Too much light with too few plants equals algea. But when we don't know that we dose with fertilizers to help our few plants but the algea is out competing for all the reasons Ruud explains ...... and round and round it goes. I'm now using root tabs, Thrive after a WC only and I've significantly increased my stock. My lightning is the aquasky but I have it on a basic partly cloudy day setting with a siesta mid day so they can stay on later in the evening.

 

[TClare]

All of this is above my paygrade. BUT what Ruud said about once you have more plants in a no CO2 added tank is key. This guy, link attached, has gorgeous planted tanks, low tech. He basically says exactly that, get enough plants in there at the outset, include nutrients and let the plants get established and growing. They'll out compete algea if there's enough of them. He uses basic lights.

He also uses just flood lights like I do!

 

[MrMuggles]

FYI, This sword is buried way too deep, they need their crowns fully exposed or they will stop growing and rot.



Getting good plant cover in general takes either a lot of patience or a boatload of $$ like MD spends on his generously planted tanks. I found plastic floating plants such as this to be tasteful looking (if incorporated with care) and super beneficial to fish by providing desirable habitat. Bamboo | Marineland®

maybe try to put it this way: Do you care more about your plastic plant pride or the health of the fish while you grow out your scape? Plastic plants also make it easier to limit light to a tank with freshly added plants that can't yet consume that extra energy, meaning it will go to algae on your glass and 'scape.

TBF I really felt the same way, for all the same reasons, when I started. But my fish were really glad when I added the temporarily plastic plants and so I was too.

I like strategies that build up substrate into tiers or include wood structures that can host rhizome plants, plus the use of containers. I planted a couple of my larger swords in dark glass goblets that allowed me to take better advantage of tank height (see plant in the center of the pic below).
Bonus: I can dose fertilizer tabs to these plants exclusively.

 

[KribensisLover1]

FYI, This sword is buried way too deep, they need their crowns fully exposed or they will stop growing and rot.
View attachment 873380


Getting good plant cover in general takes either a lot of patience or a boatload of $$ like MD spends on his generously planted tanks. I found plastic floating plants such as this to be tasteful looking (if incorporated with care) and super beneficial to fish by providing desirable habitat. Bamboo | Marineland®

maybe try to put it this way: Do you care more about your plastic plant pride or the health of the fish while you grow out your scape? Plastic plants also make it easier to limit light to a tank with freshly added plants that can't yet consume that extra energy, meaning it will go to algae on your glass and 'scape.

TBF I really felt the same way, for all the same reasons, when I started. But my fish were really glad when I added the temporarily plastic plants and so I was too.

I like strategies that build up substrate into tiers or include wood structures that can host rhizome plants, plus the use of containers. I planted a couple of my larger swords in dark glass goblets that allowed me to take better advantage of tank height (see plant in the center of the pic below).
Bonus: I can dose fertilizer tabs to these plants exclusively.
View attachment 873381

Thank you for that! I think that sword is actually buried too deep bc of sand movement so I will try to protect it from flow and have it not as deep in general knowing this could happen! And I do have more plants here that will go in the tank shortly bc what you all say makes perfect sense. I need plants to grow under the lights or I’m simply growing algae. I do have that plant! I like it! See right corner! I had it in my previous tank too much more spread out the power head is there and blows it so it’s not so spread which I don’t love! And I REALLY want real plants: here’s why: it’s a new challenge. I’ve had a few tanks with plastic and I liked them but I want to do something diff. I moved my old stock of fish so that’s not new, so I’m hoping to try something diff for fun!!

 

[ruud]

Given the height of your tank, and the current emptiness, I'd purchase lots of hygrophila species. Not the popular pinnatifida, but polysperma or corymbosa. Preferably "mother plants". Perhaps you can find these at garden centers, which saves you some bucks.

I love these plants for what they are, but you can also regard them as temporary fillers.

 

[TClare]

Given the height of your tank, and the current emptiness, I'd purchase lots of hygrophila species. Not the popular pinnatifida, but polysperma or corymbosa. Preferably "mother plants". Perhaps you can find these at garden centers, which saves you some bucks.

I love these plants for what they are, but you can also regard them as temporary fillers.

And /or Limnophila sessiliflora.

 

[KribensisLover1]

THANK YOU! I wonder if purchasing from a garden center will mitigate the qt period for snails. I’m going to go with no. In other words, are the pests in the garden center plants not able to adapt to water. But they likely are better in water.

 

[Wendybrass]

THANK YOU! I wonder if purchasing from a garden center will mitigate the qt period for snails. I’m going to go with no. In other words, are the pests in the garden center plants not able to adapt to water. But they likely are better in water.

Tropica aquarium plants are guaranteed pest free. I think if you're getting plants from an environment where there are pests you'll have to rely on the whole dip thing - and still no guarantees from what I've read, but others will know more. Tropica is a bit more expensive but if no pests are really important that's an option. Maybe there's other growers that guarantees no pests?

 

[KribensisLover1]

Tropica aquarium plants are guaranteed pest free. I think if you're getting plants from an environment where there are pests you'll have to rely on the whole dip thing - and still no guarantees from what I've read, but others will know more. Tropica is a bit more expensive but if no pests are really important that's an option. Maybe there's other growers that guarantees no pests?

Thank you! That’s good to hear. I know I should get over it but it’s tough when my tank wirh pests looks like this:
Also I have read that guaranteed is a joke and it’s never a sure thing: have you had good luck with tropica?
Is this the correct link? https://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Alternantherareineckii'Mini'(023CTC)/4439

 

[Wendybrass]

They're lab grown so they never enter an environment that has snails. You can google dealers near you to save on shipping. Yes that's the right product. I've bought them and been very happy with them but I already had snails in my tank from my first plants that were in the LFS tanks, so I can't speak to that, although the guarantee makes sense to me.

 

[KribensisLover1]

They're lab grown so they never enter an environment that has snails. You can google dealers near you to save on shipping. Yes that's the right product. I've bought them and been very happy with them but I already had snails in my tank from my first plants that were in the LFS tanks, so I can't speak to that, although the guarantee makes sense to me.

Yes! Sure does! I mean I can’t imagine a company would GUARANTEE knowing it could be wrong. The other companies I’ve looked at admit that it’s def possible. I just saw on here somebody say it’s not possible, but it sounds like it sure is! Nice! Thank you!

 

[aquanata]

Well funnt you say that bc for all this light cost it can’t set up two times like my old dimmer I got for my nicrew. I mean I work from home and I can easily set a timer myself and do it but it’s just funny. Also for some reason my tank is HOT like 82. I turned the heat down and it’s still hot. I hope the tetras are ok! But again the real question is: are the plants NOT dying or are they dying? That’s the question. Bc if they’re just holding on that’s great. If they’re actively dying well that’s not.

It looks to me like your plants are *not* dying.

To the question about huge #s of plants ... are you very serious about spending money & no snails? Cause I have an answer I think if you are.

When I decided to move from scavenged pond plants & the odd plant from the LFS, I went big on plants. Only tissue culture plants. Only those I was certain had no snails. I visited the production facility. In an otherwise empty tank as you're doing. My hardscape was a huge dragon a child insisted on instead of something tasteful.

I bought about $200 of tissue culture plants identified as "easy", "low/moderate light", "low tech" & easy to propagate. Planted. Added filter media from another tank & fed the tank. The next week I took delivery of about $200 more tissue culture plants. And planted. Added a single fish. Fought algae by manually removing it - I now know probably from running lights 12 hrs a day, in front of a window & adding fluorish. By week 4, the plants were securely rooted, growing well & algae reduced to green spots on the glass. By week 5 I was adding the rest of my animals & while not a jungle yet, it was bushing out. Guppy grass floaters added from another tank. I'll add photos, bad ones, from bare tank to about week 5. Last one recent. No laughing. That tank is one of my jungles today. What I bought & planted then has planted 11+ personal tanks & those of many others over time. $400 initial investment, maybe $50 since from other hobbyists cause I'm curious & good with snails now.

Abcplants.com in Montreal that had, last I ordered, opened a new facility in Maine too. For the record, I've not encountered snails in Tropica plants which I occasionally buy for mosses.

Again, no laughing.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Actually I have a question. Would rocks from a tank with snails bring snails into the tank?

It looks to me like your plants are *not* dying.

To the question about huge #s of plants ... are you very serious about spending money & no snails? Cause I have an answer I think if you are.

When I decided to move from scavenged pond plants & the odd plant from the LFS, I went big on plants. Only tissue culture plants. Only those I was certain had no snails. I visited the production facility. In an otherwise empty tank as you're doing. My hardscape was a huge dragon a child insisted on instead of something tasteful.

I bought about $200 of tissue culture plants identified as "easy", "low/moderate light", "low tech" & easy to propagate. Planted. Added filter media from another tank & fed the tank. The next week I took delivery of about $200 more tissue culture plants. And planted. Added a single fish. Fought algae by manually removing it - I now know probably from running lights 12 hrs a day, in front of a window & adding fluorish. By week 4, the plants were securely rooted, growing well & algae reduced to green spots on the glass. By week 5 I was adding the rest of my animals & while not a jungle yet, it was bushing out. Guppy grass floaters added from another tank. I'll add photos, bad ones, from bare tank to about week 5. Last one recent. No laughing. That tank is one of my jungles today. What I bought & planted then has planted 11+ personal tanks & those of many others over time. $400 initial investment, maybe $50 since from other hobbyists cause I'm curious & good with snails now.

Abcplants.com in Montreal that had, last I ordered, opened a new facility in Maine too. For the record, I've not encountered snails in Tropica plants which I occasionally buy for mosses.

Again, no laughing.

View attachment 873406View attachment 873407View attachment 873408View attachment 873409View attachment 873410

AWESOME! I LOVE this! And the detail! How about this option; is it feasible? To preface, I know in order to combat algae, I do need a decent amount of plants to add. I have 12 now in QT. is it possible to do exactly as you did with the plants, except more slowly? I would now have loved to have grown them before adding the fish, and was told to, but clearly it’s too late (tho I still have the running 40 breeder they were in if I HAD to move the fish back to more easily start up a lot of plants). Anyway, the idea: do as you did, except $100 at a time? So four rounds spread out? Or five even? I know that I CAN in theory do that, but I’m wondering if it could still be successful ( in avoiding algae from too few plants and also in having an actual jungle If I’m adding so slowly)? It would be $100 every two weeks. What do you think? Would it work well? Half as well? Thoughts?

 

[briangcc1997]

Rock from tank with snails could bring snails in - eggs at least. If you're paranoid about snails, scrub with a clean toothbrush under hot water for a few minutes.

Personally...I don't get worked up about them. Keep the feedings reasonable and you'll control the snails. Nothing to eat, they won't reproduce.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Rock from tank with snails could bring snails in - eggs at least. If you're paranoid about snails, scrub with a clean toothbrush under hot water for a few minutes.

Personally...I don't get worked up about them. Keep the feedings reasonable and you'll control the snails. Nothing to eat, they won't reproduce.

Funny you say that (I’ve said that phrase countless times in this thread I think). So the snails in the tank that is so overrun are at my parents house. So I was insisting to 86 ssinit that I know it’s not overfeeding, ‘I’ was only feeding every three days before and it wasn’t helping lessen the snail pop., and oh yes my parents are ACTUALLY the ones feeding what I specify, yet I’m sure it’s not overfeeding. Luckily 86 ssinit ‘s smarter than me and said Maybbbeere that’s not a sure thing if you’re not the actual one standing there doing the feeding. Fair.
I will say even when my parents fed every three days the tank was overrun. It could still have been overfeeding, yet the snail pop. was not lower with feedings less often, and assassins have had no real headway. I spose I must practice acceptance, and watch out for my new tank.
Edit: just walked in on the second time I’ve caught my beagle eating (or trying) flourish tabs!

 

[Wendybrass]

Funny you say that (I’ve said that phrase countless times in this thread I think). So the snails in the tank that is so overrun are at my parents house. So I was insisting to 86 ssinit that I know it’s not overfeeding, ‘I’ was only feeding every three days before and it wasn’t helping lessen the snail pop., and oh yes my parents are ACTUALLY the ones feeding what I specify, yet I’m sure it’s not overfeeding. Luckily 86 ssinit ‘s smarter than me and said Maybbbeere that’s not a sure thing if you’re not the actual one standing there doing the feeding. Fair.
I will say even when my parents fed every three days the tank was overrun. It could still have been overfeeding, yet the snail pop. was not lower with feedings less often, and assassins have had no real headway. I spose I must practice acceptance, and watch out for my new tank.
Edit: just walked in on the second time I’ve caught my beagle eating (or trying) flourish tabs!

Even though the feedings may be 3 days apart, if too much is going uneaten that's enough to indicate to the snails that there's a consistent food source so they will reproduce. It's more about how much than how often, if that makes sense.

 

[TClare]

Most cichlids will eat baby snails and help keep the population in check too.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Most cichlids will eat baby snails and help keep the population in check too.

One would think, right? Ha! It’s fine what’s done is done. Just don’t want to replicate!

It looks to me like your plants are *not* dying.

To the question about huge #s of plants ... are you very serious about spending money & no snails? Cause I have an answer I think if you are.

When I decided to move from scavenged pond plants & the odd plant from the LFS, I went big on plants. Only tissue culture plants. Only those I was certain had no snails. I visited the production facility. In an otherwise empty tank as you're doing. My hardscape was a huge dragon a child insisted on instead of something tasteful.

I bought about $200 of tissue culture plants identified as "easy", "low/moderate light", "low tech" & easy to propagate. Planted. Added filter media from another tank & fed the tank. The next week I took delivery of about $200 more tissue culture plants. And planted. Added a single fish. Fought algae by manually removing it - I now know probably from running lights 12 hrs a day, in front of a window & adding fluorish. By week 4, the plants were securely rooted, growing well & algae reduced to green spots on the glass. By week 5 I was adding the rest of my animals & while not a jungle yet, it was bushing out. Guppy grass floaters added from another tank. I'll add photos, bad ones, from bare tank to about week 5. Last one recent. No laughing. That tank is one of my jungles today. What I bought & planted then has planted 11+ personal tanks & those of many others over time. $400 initial investment, maybe $50 since from other hobbyists cause I'm curious & good with snails now.

Abcplants.com in Montreal that had, last I ordered, opened a new facility in Maine too. For the record, I've not encountered snails in Tropica plants which I occasionally buy for mosses.

Again, no laughing.

View attachment 873406View attachment 873407View attachment 873408View attachment 873409View attachment 873410

Hello!
Ok I just went on abc to get my list together. I went on tropica but I need to find a dealer. Should I just make my way down this list? I really wanted to try on marketplace and do dips to save money but the names! The NAMES! Hygro this and hygro that! So I should filter to this and just start buying? EDIT: it didn’t hold my filters to the link and we can’t post screen shots. I filtered to easy plants to start. Just wanted to make sure this is correct website//place to just filter to easy (and medium) and start putting in cart. Willy nilly basically. NOTE: I have received so much wonderful advice on here. Lists of names I have saved bookmarked and in special albums from screen shots. I just have a lot of trouble with the names and sometimes the site use diff names so I make note of what is the scientific versus sell names but it’s tough!

And I can put it background plants too if needed.
Aquarium Plant Care Guides | ABC Plants

don’t worry I have more questions! Can I plant tissue culture or any with my hands? That’s what I’ve been doing but I don’t want to ruin them.

 

[TClare]

don’t worry I have more questions! Can I plant tissue culture or any with my hands? That’s what I’ve been doing but I don’t want to ruin them.
Bump Lolol

Yes you can.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Yes you can.

Thank you! I’m getting algae in the tank now but I think it’s from the huge amount of ambient light, so I am getting curtains on Monday. Here’s a photo of all the light! I did turn up the tank lights today and kept them on for a few hours, and while the plant on the right looks BAD (with the long stringy things I put a red square around) I think I see new buds on the other (I’ll use arrows to point).I do def need pincers bc the water is so high I can’t reach my arm in to replant the sword. So yes I should lower it and I will but pincers might be nice? Or I might still need half my arm in!
I am also mildly concerned about some of the Val plants in the QT—I realized maybe not enough light was hitting the ones on the far right so I changed that yesterday but they look worse today. I think the ones on the left look good. I really hope the right ones aren’t lost. I HATE to order expensive tissue cultures without knowing if I can even raise plants, but I guess that’s the nature of the beast.

 

[aquanata]

don’t worry I have more questions! Can I plant tissue culture or any with my hands? That’s what I’ve been doing but I don’t want to ruin them.
Bump Lolol

To answer everything I can ... check that the Maine warehouse is operating at ABC. Their filters are usually very good. To keep track of plant names (which can confuse me too), I keep index cards on each plant & cross - research other online suppliers (like Tropica) for "nicknames" & any other info I may want. Ignore the latin - no C02, light needs, ease of growth & plant height in that order. Tropica in my experience doesn't list retail outlets - in Canada at least. I've always had to call LFS to locate them, but LOTS carry Tropica. Tropica in LFS will save you shipping but likely will have less variety.

Yes, you can do it spaced out but you will have a longer algae battle best restricted by hand removal rather than chemicals. 'Fast growing' & 'easy' are your best terms here. The plants need to quickly overwhelm the algae with their quick growth.

With Tissue Culture, Tropica, ABC or another TC source, you're looking at maybe 8 specimens per $100 USD in my experience. There will literally be dozens of plants per cup, to be teased apart singly or in small clumps. You could, with what you have now, completely plant that tank with your 1st order I think. The staggered planting will likely over plant you, but it accounts for plants recovering from melting (yes, even TC melt) as new ones go in.

You won't damage the plants using your fingers, but it'll be more difficult getting them secure in the substrate. Other options tho are getting wet & using regular blunt tweezers for the plunging roots in part. Too, in the car section of dollar stores, they sometimes have long tweezers - like 6" - I don't know for what, but they work in a pinch. No pun intended.

Did I get everything? LOL. I have a cat standing on my tablet asking about the defrosting hamburger on the counter & refusing to let me scroll. This particular cat contributes a lot of 'hair algae' to my tanks.

Thank you! I’m getting algae in the tank now but I think it’s from the huge amount of ambient light, so I am getting curtains on Monday. Here’s a photo of all the light! I did turn up the tank lights today and kept them on for a few hours, and while the plant on the right looks BAD (with the long stringy things I put a red square around) I think I see new buds on the other (I’ll use arrows to point).I do def need pincers bc the water is so high I can’t reach my arm in to replant the sword. So yes I should lower it and I will but pincers might be nice? Or I might still need half my arm in!
I am also mildly concerned about some of the Val plants in the QT—I realized maybe not enough light was hitting the ones on the far right so I changed that yesterday but they look worse today. I think the ones on the left look good. I really hope the right ones aren’t lost. I HATE to order expensive tissue cultures without knowing if I can even raise plants, but I guess that’s the nature of the beast. View attachment 873500View attachment 873501View attachment 873502View attachment 873503View attachment 873504View attachment 873505View attachment 873506

I think they're melting, not dying. Cut off the melted leaves so the plant can focus on growing new ones. Then watch for re-growth!

 

[KribensisLover1]

It looks to me like your plants are *not* dying.

To the question about huge #s of plants ... are you very serious about spending money & no snails? Cause I have an answer I think if you are.

When I decided to move from scavenged pond plants & the odd plant from the LFS, I went big on plants. Only tissue culture plants. Only those I was certain had no snails. I visited the production facility. In an otherwise empty tank as you're doing. My hardscape was a huge dragon a child insisted on instead of something tasteful.

I bought about $200 of tissue culture plants identified as "easy", "low/moderate light", "low tech" & easy to propagate. Planted. Added filter media from another tank & fed the tank. The next week I took delivery of about $200 more tissue culture plants. And planted. Added a single fish. Fought algae by manually removing it - I now know probably from running lights 12 hrs a day, in front of a window & adding fluorish. By week 4, the plants were securely rooted, growing well & algae reduced to green spots on the glass. By week 5 I was adding the rest of my animals & while not a jungle yet, it was bushing out. Guppy grass floaters added from another tank. I'll add photos, bad ones, from bare tank to about week 5. Last one recent. No laughing. That tank is one of my jungles today. What I bought & planted then has planted 11+ personal tanks & those of many others over time. $400 initial investment, maybe $50 since from other hobbyists cause I'm curious & good with snails now.

Abcplants.com in Montreal that had, last I ordered, opened a new facility in Maine too. For the record, I've not encountered snails in Tropica plants which I occasionally buy for mosses.

Again, no laughing.

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just saw your reply aquanata! Thank you! I will show you my first order before I place it (lucky you! Lolol). It would be amazing to find locally bc shipping is $30 alone!

 

[KribensisLover1]

I saw that it’s very helpful to get tissue cultures that are already potted so they are more used to a non sterile environment. Have you found this? And the abc had high high shipping rates (29$$) so I randomly searched around and found this site. This one had a lot of details about each plant (requirements) but said that mainly almost all of the stemmed plants needed nutrient substrate (which I know isn’t true, just saying), and all the fast growers and even medium also ‘recommended’ (medium growers) and ‘required’ (fast growers) nutrient substrate. Again not saying this is true, but this is what I came up with just from searching beginners and no co2 or nutrient soil. What do you think? Am I way off track? ALL THEY WANT ME TO GET IS ANUBIAS. Is this really what I have to do?




I

 

[TClare]

Stem plants do not need a nutrient rich substrate, those we have mentioned so far grow fine in just sand. They are not root feeders in general, and will often grow just floating. Anubias look very nice but are not ideal for starting a new tank (unless combined with more fast growing species) as they grow very slowly and are very prone to getting algae on their leaves. Crypts also grow slowly and usually their leaves melt when transferred to a new environment. They do grow back but it takes some time. That is why for starting a new tank by all means include a few of these, but more importantly have lots of easy, fast growing stem plants that will help things to get going and combat algae initially. Also add floating plants. And don't panic at the first sight of algae, a certain amount is probably inevitable initially.

 

[aquanata]

I saw that it’s very helpful to get tissue cultures that are already potted so they are more used to a non sterile environment. Have you found this? And the abc had high high shipping rates (29$$) so I randomly searched around and found this site. This one had a lot of details about each plant (requirements) but said that mainly almost all of the stemmed plants needed nutrient substrate (which I know isn’t true, just saying), and all the fast growers and even medium also ‘recommended’ (medium growers) and ‘required’ (fast growers) nutrient substrate. Again not saying this is true, but this is what I came up with just from searching beginners and no co2 or nutrient soil. What do you think? Am I way off track? ALL THEY WANT ME TO GET IS ANUBIAS. Is this really what I have to do?



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I

So ABC is my recommendation because I deal with them. But I'm in Canada & you're in the US so my recommendations for stores are gonna limit you.

TClare is 100% right about stem nutrition & anubias being slow growing. I don't use it in new tanks. The 'potted' tissue culture thing seems off to me unless they're recommending TC being grown out to larger size in pots? What's going to matter is that TC is grown emersed (partly out of water) rather than immersed (under water) & is likely going to have some melt just like every other aquatic plant. Even if grown totally immersed, plants tend to melt just switching tanks. Sterile or non-sterile has made zero difference to me. That TC melts less in my experience is part of why I order them.

You've got a lot of choice to order TC in the US. Why not post a thread asking just for recommendations of US TC places that reliably deliver snail free stock? Then compare shipping/purchase cost & pick one? You've got a dozen plants waiting to plant. List those here & we can help you pick maybe 6 more that will fit your aquascape & grow fast. You could be fully planted in a week!

Sound like a planting, if not hardscaping plan?

 

[KribensisLover1]

So ABC is my recommendation because I deal with them. But I'm in Canada & you're in the US so my recommendations for stores are gonna limit you.

TClare is 100% right about stem nutrition & anubias being slow growing. I don't use it in new tanks. The 'potted' tissue culture thing seems off to me unless they're recommending TC being grown out to larger size in pots? What's going to matter is that TC is grown emersed (partly out of water) rather than immersed (under water) & is likely going to have some melt just like every other aquatic plant. Even if grown totally immersed, plants tend to melt just switching tanks. Sterile or non-sterile has made zero difference to me. That TC melts less in my experience is part of why I order them.

You've got a lot of choice to order TC in the US. Why not post a thread asking just for recommendations of US TC places that reliably deliver snail free stock? Then compare shipping/purchase cost & pick one? You've got a dozen plants waiting to plant. List those here & we can help you pick maybe 6 more that will fit your aquascape & grow fast. You could be fully planted in a week!

Sound like a planting, if not hardscaping plan?

You’re right! And yes sounds perfect! Sorry for all the repeat questions. You all told me what to do and then I ask the same questions in diff ways! I am so so grateful for your help and patience as I’m all over the place!
Also should I bother replanting these or are they done

 

[TClare]

Maybe remove the dead leaves and give them some more time, see if they start getting new leaves.

 

[aquanata]

You’re right! And yes sounds perfect! Sorry for all the repeat questions. You all told me what to do and then I ask the same questions in diff ways! I am so so grateful for your help and patience as I’m all over the place!

Hope I don't sound impatient - I'm really not! I'm invested & asking *you* repeat questions 'cause I'm too lazy to go back in the thread!!

The plants aren't the hard part tho - hardscape is - for me anyway. I think you've got the plant essentials down now anyway: increased light intensity, root ferts, lots of fast growing plants - short, medium & tall. Sounds like you want 4 things: refined jungle, reduction of the algae phase, no snails & use of your owned rock & wood. All reasonable.

I have to plan my 20g reset. Determined to be as thoughtful about scaping this time as you are too. I'm gonna hit up my artist family members to sketch out simple plans for me that use the fast growers I have - easy to acquire, hardy guys. I think we both already have the wood & rocks we want to showcase.

Want to take a chance on similar plans for your tank & I'll draw up the plant lists to go with? I'd need either name or photo to id what you have in quarantine, your tank dimensions & a couple days. Oh! And who you're planning on housing in the finished tank. Artist #1 has said they'll do it if I can show 'em examples of 'refined jungle', which I can. Feel free to say no! I get the journey is often as important as the result but if you want a potential short cut - here we are.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Hope I don't sound impatient - I'm really not! I'm invested & asking *you* repeat questions 'cause I'm too lazy to go back in the thread!!

The plants aren't the hard part tho - hardscape is - for me anyway. I think you've got the plant essentials down now anyway: increased light intensity, root ferts, lots of fast growing plants - short, medium & tall. Sounds like you want 4 things: refined jungle, reduction of the algae phase, no snails & use of your owned rock & wood. All reasonable.

I have to plan my 20g reset. Determined to be as thoughtful about scaping this time as you are too. I'm gonna hit up my artist family members to sketch out simple plans for me that use the fast growers I have - easy to acquire, hardy guys. I think we both already have the wood & rocks we want to showcase.

Want to take a chance on similar plans for your tank & I'll draw up the plant lists to go with? I'd need either name or photo to id what you have in quarantine, your tank dimensions & a couple days. Oh! And who you're planning on housing in the finished tank. Artist #1 has said they'll do it if I can show 'em examples of 'refined jungle', which I can. Feel free to say no! I get the journey is often as important as the result but if you want a potential short cut - here we are.

Omg! I came here to post this (pics below) and see what you thought but what you suggest above would be awesome! And you’re so so patient I feel bad I’m so annoying! I’ll show you what I came to post (a list of plant options) just to see if any of the plants coincide with what you Rec. but your idea for me is amazing! So I have Amazon swords In the tank and some hygro and then in qt I have 8 (it’s ten but two are struggling) corkscrew Vals, two crypts and a wisteria (which had no snails and I accidentally qt ugh). The tank is 48 long and 13 across and 24 inches tall. It would be awesome to have the list! Wow that’s SO generous! In the tank: two small angels, 12 red eye tetras (9 but just got three more today that are in QT with plants), 7 emerald cories, and then today I got the three red eyes, 8 koi swordtails, and 10 green neons. The green neons will likely go in a diff tank bc they might be too small. They’re cool though! Here’s the list of plants but feel free to disregard all! I won’t order yet!! I also am not so attached to my wood but I’m coming from a 40 breeder and am not used to the narrower tank so I just am playing around with what I have. Overall I don’t think I would find anything so diff and I def want to keep the rocks! I’ll say it again—so nice of you!
Edit: I did look for many plants that have been suggested in the past (Cabomba, polysperma, etc etc but a lot was sold out!!

 

[kimdawg]

Really? Do you mind sharing which ones you ordered? I've been looking at them but some apparently aren't great.

WDEFUN Driftwood for Aquarium Decor 7-11 Inch Length Large Spider Wood​

This is what the title said. It has gone up alittle, but I was very happy with the wood I got.

 

[aquanata]

Omg! I came here to post this (pics below) and see what you thought but what you suggest above would be awesome! And you’re so so patient I feel bad I’m so annoying! I’ll show you what I came to post (a list of plant options) just to see if any of the plants coincide with what you Rec. but your idea for me is amazing! So I have Amazon swords In the tank and some hygro and then in qt I have 8 (it’s ten but two are struggling) corkscrew Vals, two crypts and a wisteria (which had no snails and I accidentally qt ugh). The tank is 48 long and 13 across and 24 inches tall. It would be awesome to have the list! Wow that’s SO generous! In the tank: two small angels, 12 red eye tetras (9 but just got three more today that are in QT with plants), 7 emerald cories, and then today I got the three red eyes, 8 koi swordtails, and 10 green neons. The green neons will likely go in a diff tank bc they might be too small. They’re cool though! Here’s the list of plants but feel free to disregard all! I won’t order yet!! I also am not so attached to my wood but I’m coming from a 40 breeder and am not used to the narrower tank so I just am playing around with what I have. Overall I don’t think I would find anything so diff and I def want to keep the rocks! I’ll say it again—so nice of you!
Edit: I did look for many plants that have been suggested in the past (Cabomba, polysperma, etc etc but a lot was sold out!!

Deal. Give me a few days, we'll spread out & come up with something for both our tanks. You certainly don't have to use what the artist troupe & I come up with, but it should give you a plan to work from.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Deal. Give me a few days, we'll spread out & come up with something for both our tanks. You certainly don't have to use what the artist troupe & I come up with, but it should give you a plan to work from.

Thank you! Plants so tough!

 

[Wendybrass]

WDEFUN Driftwood for Aquarium Decor 7-11 Inch Length Large Spider Wood​

This is what the title said. It has gone up alittle, but I was very happy with the wood I got.

Thanks!

 

[KribensisLover1]

A couple issues. My plants in qt were unrooted. So I added more not washed enough sand and replanted. I also dropped the entire light in the tank which I’m sure made the fish thrilled. I got some of the tape off that was blocking the blue in my lights but it’s all condensation covered inside now.
Anyway how bad is it tnat these roots show? I can’t get them to stay down. Also I feel like my technique for planting can’t be right. I take the root and shovel the sand and try to shove it in. The sand is too fine to allow a hole to be dug.

 

[TClare]

They look fine, don't worry.

 

[KribensisLover1]

They look fine, don't worry.

They are now glass surfing like crazy (the swordtails) like FRANTIC. Panicked no direction just all over the place. I’ve turned off the light and shut the black out shades and I won’t turn on the light again until tomorrow. Anything else I can do?
Edit; they are calmer by a little bit. Not swimming normally and hiding out at back but better. I have to go in the room so I covered the tank front with a fleece blanket.
fascinating I know.

 

[TClare]

They are now glass surfing like crazy (the swordtails) like FRANTIC. Panicked no direction just all over the place. I’ve turned off the light and shut the black out shades and I won’t turn on the light again until tomorrow. Anything else I can do?
Edit; they are calmer by a little bit. Not swimming normally and hiding out at back but better. I have to go in the room so I covered the tank front with a fleece blanket.
fascinating I know.

Ah I meant the plants...I don't think there is anything more you can do for the fish they should settle down soon.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Y’all what is THIS? They are albino so maybe that’s what the issue is. But I’m worried.
Edit
I’m going to dose prime until I hear from y’all. I am not simply changing the water bc of how stressed rhey were yesterday.

 

[KribensisLover1]

I am seeing new growth! Yay! More lighting helped. The question is when can I move my qt plants. I dipped them two weeks ago this Sat and they have been in qt since last Tuesday. They’re with qt fishes so they have had food sources. So would I have seen the snails already? Can I plant in the final tank? I’m worried bc my bettwr light in the main tank is creating more growth than the one in QT so I would like to move the plants sooner than later

 

[TClare]

I am seeing new growth! Yay! More lighting helped. The question is when can I move my qt plants. I dipped them two weeks ago this Sat and they have been in qt since last Tuesday. They’re with qt fishes so they have had food sources. So would I have seen the snails already? Can I plant in the final tank? I’m worried bc my bettwr light in the main tank is creating more growth than the one in QT so I would like to move the plants sooner than later

I think it would probably be Ok to move them now, then again I have never quarantined plants as I don't mind snails! I think though 2 weeks is enough for any snail eggs to have hatched.