Black Lace Guppy has fin damage and I am unsure what to do

[quadb]

Today I noticed my black lace guppy has either a damaged fin, ripped fin, or etc. I have no idea how it happened and I am unsure what I should do next. I check the water weekly and change the water weekly and everything parameter-wise has been normal up until I just tested the water today. The only difference is the Nitrate. It is usually 10-20 ppm and today it looks like it is between 0-5 ppm. Maybe I changed too much water??? But my tank is cycled and has been.
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Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 20 gallons
How long has the tank been running? Since August 2022
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 80 degrees F.
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 clown pleco
2 female guppies
1 male guppy (the black lace)
3 neon tetras
3 cherry barbs
1 cherry shrimp

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Weekly
How much of the water do you change? Usually, 50 to 70 percent
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vacuum the substrate

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? API master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Right now, it looks to be between 0-5 ppm and literally every other week when I test it, it is at 10-20 ppm
pH:

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Every 3 days
How much do you feed your fish? I believe it to be a pinch or two of flakes, a quarter of an algae wafer and one or two pellets of fish food.
What brand of food do you feed your fish? aqueon fish flakes, and a green bag of algae wafers, and aqueon shrimp pellets ( i would like a better brand, any suggestions?)
Do you feed frozen? No
Do you feed freeze-dried foods? No

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Either a month or two I cannot remember
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Today BUT tbh he may have gotten a little skinnier or smaller the last couple days but I really cannot tell or remember.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? His tail is damaged or ripped and he is acting a little weird, hiding in the plants BUT i have not noticed any other fish ganging up on him.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No, I need help idk what to do.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Not that I know of. He looked normal.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? His tail is ripped or damaged and he would always sleep earlier than the other fish and would sleep in the plants but lately I do think he's hiding a little bit more but I have not noticed any bullying from the other fish.

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
(Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
Besides his fin being damaged. I did notice the ph MAY be a little higher than normal. Usually when I test it every week it is at 6.8/7.0 and today it is at 7.6 and I thought maybe it needed the high range ph test from the mater kit so I did that and it read 7.4 from the high range test.

The first two pictures are from the time I got him and the last 4 are from today.

I do not know if he ripped his fin on an ornament. None of the other fish have ripped fins, I have not noticed bullying from the other fish, and none of the other fish are acting weird.

Since the ph is a little higher than normal and the Nitrate is lower than normal maybe I changed too much water??? But could that cause his problems?
Include pictures

 

[kansas]

I think your fish was attacked by a tank mate. I don't think you water parameters would have caused this, or the water change.

Both the tetras and the barbs would do better in larger groups and be less apt to pick on other fish. Keeping up with your water changes will help it heal. Sorry I don't have any advice, good luck.

 

[quadb]

I think your fish was attacked by a tank mate. I don't think you water parameters would have caused this, or the water change.

Both the tetras and the barbs would do better in larger groups and be less apt to pick on other fish. Keeping up with your water changes will help it heal. Sorry I don't have any advice, good luck.

I have another tank I can acclimate him to but I have 1 male guppy in that tank and I do not want them to bully each other. I honestly havent noticed the barbs or the tetras doing anything to the black lace guppy unless they do it while i am gone or at night when the lights are off. The other female guppies do not have any damage.

 

[OfishialBuiseness]

The barbs prob got to him because guppies are pretty much defenseless and super vulnerable. If it's not swimming too good I'd put him in a fish bowl(or tiny tank whatever you got that can be heated) and give him one of the suction cup fake beta leafs(or anything for it to rest on) temporarily. Add a couple table spoons of aquarium salt to help speed up the recovery.

 

[aquanata]

Do you have a full tank photo you can share? Is he simply laying on the tank floor at this point? It looks like he's suffered pretty significant damage either from a tank mate or decor. A full photo might help figure out a decor problem.

As OfishialBuiseness says, he should be removed to a smaller tank (tupperware, bucket) without tank mates. I'd do pristine water, heater & a bubbler at least - daily 50% water changes. Salt (1.5 tsp per gal), methylene blue or malachite green to treat the tear & the infection that may become secondary.

It's unlikely the lower nitrates or pH change had anything to do with this. Water changes are supposed to keep nitrates down. Many sites say up to 20 is fine. I water change 50% on hospital tanks that reach 10 to keep nitrates at no more than 5 & maintain heavily planted tanks at 0-5 nitrates. Don't know about your pH increase except that it didn't cause this either. Live bearers prefer hard water tho & I keep them single species at 8.2.

I'd take a look at feeding. While it did not cause this either, I'd feed more than 2x a week unless the tank is a long established self-sustaining one. I generally feed 6 days a week, one day fasting. At least one of those days I provide frozen or live food instead of pellets or flakes. I want them healthy & with strong immunity.

Please update us on how your little guy is doing.

 

[quadb]

Do you have a full tank photo you can share? Is he simply laying on the tank floor at this point? It looks like he's suffered pretty significant damage either from a tank mate or decor. A full photo might help figure out a decor problem.

As OfishialBuiseness says, he should be removed to a smaller tank (tupperware, bucket) without tank mates. I'd do pristine water, heater & a bubbler at least - daily 50% water changes. Salt (1.5 tsp per gal), methylene blue or malachite green to treat the tear & the infection that may become secondary.

It's unlikely the lower nitrates or pH change had anything to do with this. Water changes are supposed to keep nitrates down. Many sites say up to 20 is fine. I water change 50% on hospital tanks that reach 10 to keep nitrates at no more than 5 & maintain heavily planted tanks at 0-5 nitrates. Don't know about your pH increase except that it didn't cause this either. Live bearers prefer hard water tho & I keep them single species at 8.2.

I'd take a look at feeding. While it did not cause this either, I'd feed more than 2x a week unless the tank is a long established self-sustaining one. I generally feed 6 days a week, one day fasting. At least one of those days I provide frozen or live food instead of pellets or flakes. I want them healthy & with strong immunity.

Please update us on how your little guy is doing.

Okay so say I use a bucket or a small tank (empty) I have, do I use brand new water or do I have to take some from the tank he’s in? If I do it right now in the middle of the night, I only have tap water available, tomorrow I could get ro water. But I want to do it asap. If I use tap water I’ll condition it. I only have malachite green right now on hand

Okay so say I use a bucket or a small tank (empty) I have, do I use brand new water or do I have to take some from the tank he’s in? If I do it right now in the middle of the night, I only have tap water available, tomorrow I could get ro water. But I want to do it asap. If I use tap water I’ll condition it. I only have malachite green right now on hand

 

[aquanata]

Good for you. Bucket or small tank, heater & bubbler. No RO water is necessary for this fish, so conditioned tap water. You have malachite Green in what preparation? Can you tell me the instructions on it?

Once he's in & begun treatment you might take a moment to run a piece of panty hose or cotton ball inside the barrel decor & maybe others. I'm betting on rough interior seams having caused the fin injury.

I'm so glad you responded!

 

[quadb]

Good for you. Bucket or small tank, heater & bubbler. No RO water is necessary for this fish, so conditioned tap water. You have malachite Green in what preparation? Can you tell me the instructions on it?

Once he's in & begun treatment you might take a moment to run a piece of panty hose or cotton ball inside the barrel decor & maybe others. I'm betting on rough interior seams having caused the fin injury.

I'm so glad you responded!

Okay so I’ll get that started asap. I’ll post a bottle of the malachite green

 

[Itiwhetu]

It is most probably to late, but please don't use Malachite Green it is Carcinogenic.

 

[quadb]

It is most probably to late, but please don't use Malachite Green it is Carcinogenic.

So what do you suggest?

 

[aquanata]

Okay so I’ll get that started asap. I’ll post a bottle of the malachite green

Same as I use then. Pay attention to the dosage for the water volume of your hospital tank & doing the water changes before each dose. I dose for 3 days only. Keep an eye on his behaviour. Gasping or struggling means take him out & put him back in clean, conditioned water. I've never had a fish react that way but I wanted you to know to watch for it. The goal is to jumpstart healing & prevent incipient infection.

 

[quadb]

Same as I use then. Pay attention to the dosage for the water volume of your hospital tank & doing the water changes before each dose. I dose for 3 days only. Keep an eye on his behaviour. Gasping or struggling means take him out & put him back in clean, conditioned water. I've never had a fish react that way but I wanted you to know to watch for it. The goal is to jumpstart healing & prevent incipient infection.

If he were to struggle or gasp like you said, and I need to put him in clean conditioned water? Like a bucket or something? I would be worried of the heater burning the bucket (but this is if he even reacts that way) I’m jumping ahead. I’ll try the first thing first

 

[aquanata]

If he were to struggle or gasp like you said, and I need to put him in clean conditioned water? Like a bucket or something? I would be worried of the heater burning the bucket (but this is if he even reacts that way) I’m jumping ahead. I’ll try the first thing first

Not to worry. If that were to happen, put him literally in a tupperware with conditioned tap water, temp matched to the hospital tank by touch, until you can empty & refill the hospital tank the same way. Or, better leave him in the hospital tank & slowly change out water to dilute the med.

20 some years doing this & I have yet to have an animal respond this way to MG. The warning is necessary tho for any med, even aquarium salt.

 

[Itiwhetu]

So what do you suggest?

This will be fin damage from other fish. Remove it to a safer tank. Fins do heal over time on their own

 

[quadb]

Not to worry. If that were to happen, put him literally in a tupperware with conditioned tap water, temp matched to the hospital tank by touch, until you can empty & refill the hospital tank the same way. Or, better leave him in the hospital tank & slowly change out water to dilute the med.

20 some years doing this & I have yet to have an animal respond this way to MG. The warning is necessary tho for any med, even aquarium salt.

Okay and you said to add salt too. What kind of salt?? I am sorry to ask so many little questions. I just want to make sure I’m doing it all right

 

[aquanata]

Okay and you said to add salt too. What kind of salt?? I am sorry to ask so many little questions. I just want to make sure I’m doing it all right

Nope, not salt too.

If you have aquarium salt - only aquarium salt - I'd use that as a first step at 1.5 tsp per gallon. I do not combine salt with other meds. If you have aquarium salt, use that instead of the MG, dissolving it in tank or clean, conditioned tap water before adding it to the hospital tank.

I'll be watching for your replies until you're able to get this little guy settled so don't worry about asking questions. I'll reply. It sucks to have an injured or ill animal & he's a beautiful guppy. I want him to survive.

 

[kansas]

One of the things you'll find on this page is the many suggestions often won't agree with each other.

I think a tank where it is safe with lots of live plants and frequent water changes are your fish's best chances.

It's very stressful it is to have a sick or injured fish.

 

[quadb]

Nope, not salt too.

If you have aquarium salt - only aquarium salt - I'd use that as a first step at 1.5 tsp per gallon. I do not combine salt with other meds. If you have aquarium salt, use that instead of the MG, dissolving it in tank or clean, conditioned tap water before adding it to the hospital tank.

I'll be watching for your replies until you're able to get this little guy settled so don't worry about asking questions. I'll reply. It sucks to have an injured or ill animal & he's a beautiful guppy. I want him to survive.

Thank you I’ll keep you updated

One of the things you'll find on this page is the many suggestions often won't agree with each other.

I think a tank where it is safe with lots of live plants and frequent water changes are your fish's best chances.

It's very stressful it is to have a sick or injured fish.

I see that. I’m a little conflicted. So I have two tanks. The one this black lace guppy is in is unsafe if the cherry barbs are attacking him. My other tank has a male guppy who I feel will bully him to be the dominant one. So should I keep him in his current tank and do the water changes as normal? Or should I acclimate him to the other tank that only has 3 female guppies, 1 male guppy, snails, and 1 bushynose pleco?

 

[aquanata]

Thank you I’ll keep you updated

I see that. I’m a little conflicted. So I have two tanks. The one this black lace guppy is in is unsafe if the cherry barbs are attacking him. My other tank has a male guppy who I feel will bully him to be the dominant one. So should I keep him in his current tank and do the water changes as normal? Or should I acclimate him to the other tank that only has 3 female guppies, 1 male guppy, snails, and 1 bushynose pleco?

Kansas is right that there are a lot of long time fish keepers here & amongst them, differing approaches. I apologize if my responses confused you. My approach to injury is to separate & treat, as I take in surrenders. It's what I would do with a substrate languishing guppy with a tear so close to its body, but not necessarily what you must do.

How is he this morning?

As for general tank arrangements, it's tough. Certainly the barbs, the tetras or the BNP could have been involved in this rather than a rough decor seam but we don't know. Given that, should the ailing guppy remain within that community? Or move the other male in with them to give the injured guy a sole tank risking similar injury to the 2nd male?

Without considering the current injury, if you're ready for guppy breeding, they're kept 1 male to 2-3 females. If not prepared for fry, they're kept separately by gender. With males in my experience, this means in groups of 3-5 min to reduce the bullying you're concerned about.

If you're really set on breeding, perhaps all the guppies should be removed to a separate tank & an extra fry tank set up. You'll want to arrange for re-homing the babies. If you're not set on breeding, then doing the males only tank with an increase in males to distribute aggression may be your best bet.

It's tough when you're new to this & all you want is to enjoy your fish. Ultimately you are going to have to decide how you're going to keep the guppies - either in a community or separated. I'm sorry there aren't hard & fast 'rules' to tell you what to do in this case & given you have one injured fish, but the above guidelines are the general ones. There's lots to learn in this hobby, from feeding to compatability to live planting, as well as lots to enjoy on the journey.

I hope your injured male is off the bottom & swimming this morning. It'd be good to hear how he does.

 

[OfishialBuiseness]

It is most probably to late, but please don't use Malachite Green it is Carcinogenic.

Don't be such a negative nancy, as long as the fish is alive there is hope.

 

[quadb]

So unfortunately my guppy has passed away. Thank you everyone for trying to help me

 

[aquanata]

So unfortunately my guppy has passed away. Thank you everyone for trying to help me

I'd so hoped this could be averted & I'm very sorry for your loss. It's touch & go with tearing to that extent but you were right on top of getting help & providing care. My sympathies quadb.

 

[quadb]

I'd so hoped this could be averted & I'm very sorry for your loss. It's touch & go with tearing to that extent but you were right on top of getting help & providing care. My sympathies quadb.

Thank you. I will miss him. He had a great personality