Abby's Pass (200g planted)

[MickSG]

Hi everyone, I'd like to share my 200g planted tank build, which I've named after my 2yo daughter who loves to point at it and say FISH. The tank is built into the wall of my study, but it can be viewed from both sides.

Here it is at the start of renovation:



And now with a wall built around it looking in to the study.



And now fully planted after 2 weeks of growth. This is the view from the living room side:



And this is the view from inside the study:


Currently the only inhabitants are 19 ottocinclus (sadly one did not survive the first night). More fish in a few weeks. Thanks for viewing

 

[carsonsgjs]

Love this - makes me insanely jealous as well though. Definitely following to see how the rest of the stocking goes.

 

[Jo7984]

Amazing!!!!

 

[MacZ]

Currently the only inhabitants are 19 ottocinclus (sadly one did not survive the first night). More fish in a few weeks. Thanks for viewing

Start supplementory feeding. Otherwise you might lose more by starvation. New tanks are the Oto's bane.

 

[pagoda]

Start supplementory feeding. Otherwise you might lose more by starvation. New tanks are the Otos bane.

Hindsight would be great if you could have it in advance but I would have added the Otos last after a few months just to get the aquarium more established first.

That said, its a stunning aquarium, absolutely beautiful

 

[MickSG]

Thanks for the advice. The ottos actually went in on week 1.. oops. The order was meant to arrive weeks later but due to some confusion they arrived unexpectedly, so they went in early. It has been just over 2 weeks now since they went in and I'm happy to say that the rest are all accounted for.

What should I feed them? Some boiled veges?

 

[pagoda]

Occasional blanched cucumber, zuchini, spinach or similar will work OK along with the usual algae wafers, spirulina & catfish pellet foods to keep them happy and healthy until the aquarium is fully matured.

 

[MacZ]

What should I feed them? Some boiled veges?

Just blanche them for a minute or two. You can feed: Zucchini, cucumber, lettuce, broccoli, bell peppers. Also try some cyclops or baby brine shrimp, they go for those when they settle on surfaces. A lot of people also have had good results with Repashy Soylent Green and a bacteria preparation I always forget the name of.
For all supplements the rule applies: The fish first have to learn it's edible and if they start eating it, it's sometimes possible they stop eating it from one day to the other. So be ready to switch offerings quickly if necessary.
Veggies should be removed after 24h and try to always offer them in the same spot(s).

Not gonna lie, this is going to bite you in the behind. Otos are unstoppable removers of biofilm (in their tragic attempt to not starve), so a lot of surfaces that in an established tank would have a healthy layer of aufwuchs will stay clean and sterile, meaning your tank will take longer to fully establish and get a good balance. So be prepared for eventual set-backs. Hope you get spared by most.

Good luck anyways, it's a nicely done tank.

 

[coralbandit]

Nice tank !

 

[MickSG]

Just blanche them for a minute or two. You can feed: Zucchini, cucumber, lettuce, broccoli, bell peppers. Also try some cyclops or baby brine shrimp, they go for those when they settle on surfaces. A lot of people also have had good results with Repashy Soylent Green and a bacteria preparation I always forget the name of.
For all supplements the rule applies: The fish first have to learn it's edible and if they start eating it, it's sometimes possible they stop eating it from one day to the other. So be ready to switch offerings quickly if necessary.
Veggies should be removed after 24h and try to always offer them in the same spot(s).

Not gonna lie, this is going to bite you in the behind. Otos are unstoppable removers of biofilm (in their tragic attempt to not starve), so a lot of surfaces that in an established tank would have a healthy layer of aufwuchs will stay clean and sterile, meaning your tank will take longer to fully establish and get a good balance. So be prepared for eventual set-backs. Hope you get spared by most.

Good luck anyways, it's a nicely done tank.

Thanks for the advice Mac. I've dropped in some extra veges so they have some choice on what to eat tonight. I do hope they are happy. I appreciate that the cycle might take a bit longer but that doesn't worry me. I'm doing massive water changes every day or two for what is a pretty negligible amount of stock. And I don't plan to add any serious load until my plant mass is much larger. The main reason for the water changes is to give my more fussy plants the best chance to get established

Here are a few pics of the ottos I took a few days ago. Please do let me know if you see any reason to worry about them. Cheers.

 

[86 ssinit]

Do you have other tanks running? If so you could move some plants out of those into the new one for the ottos to eat the micro film off them. Also decorations will have micro film on them.
Great looking tank! Looks smaller on the stand! What type of fish will you be adding?

 

[MacZ]

I appreciate that the cycle might take a bit longer but that doesn't worry me. I'm doing massive water changes every day or two for what is a pretty negligible amount of stock.

The waterchanges might stall the cycle actually, but with the Otos and especially all the food (which does put strain on the water quality) this should work out. Please be aware that a cycled tank is not yet a stable tank. I would guess it will take a month or so until you can add more fish, which you can add over the course of 2 months.
Whatever invertebrates you might have on your prospective stock list: Scratch them off it. Any bigger snails like Neritina or shrimp are competition to the Otos. Trumpet snails that keep the substrate aerated would be a good idea though.

Here are a few pics of the ottos I took a few days ago. Please do let me know if you see any reason to worry about them. Cheers.

I can see some clamped fins and skinny tummies. The one in the shade on the second pic looks a bit strange colourwise. Keep an eye on that, the brighter the colours the worse the condition. So... food is coming in just in time. With Otos you can always (established tank and immediately offered food or not) expect losses. Depending on how bad the batch is, 50% losses within the first 3 months are normal. A good batch has zero to 25% losses, really bad ones may be gone within few weeks.

 

[MickSG]

This is my only tank. I doubt I'd be able to catch the ottos anyway as they have far too many caves to hide in. Really appreciate the food advice though; glad I posted.

Next on the stocking list is a school of 50 emperor tetras, but the plan is to add them over a few weeks in batches of 10. The tank also has a few (unwanted) ramshorn and bladder snails, but I've been diligently removing them. Later I'd like to consider some rams or apistos.

 

[MacZ]

This is my only tank. I doubt I'd be able to catch the ottos anyway as they have far too many caves to hide in. Really appreciate the food advice though; glad I posted.

Indeed. Catching them is unlikely possible and not helping either.

Next on the stocking list is a school of 50 emperor tetras, but the plan is to add them over a few weeks in batches of 10.

Good plan. For them and dwarf cichlids floating plants or other cover is a must. I'd basically wrap brasillian pennywort (Hydrocotyle leucocephala) around the wood sticking out of the water and let that stuff build up a floating carpet in that area.

The tank also has a few (unwanted) ramshorn and bladder snails, but I've been diligently removing them.

Keep collecting them off, if you go on with that you can remove them all within a month. No other way than picking them off one by one.

Later I'd like to consider some rams or apistos.

With the Otos and Emperors, you should take a good look at Apistogramma. Microgeophagus ramirezi need higher temperatures than the other fish and are generally a bit fuzzy. A trio or maybe some more Apistos should work out well. Calculate in 60cm diameter per male territory and 30 per female. Structures might limit you to only three, if you can move some driftwood, maybe 2 males and 4 females would be possible. They would surely (like the Otos btw) love lots of leaf litter on the open sand areas.

 

[86 ssinit]

Ok we are talking a 200gallon tank and not 200 liters? That tank is huge! I would suggest some larger fish. To help with algae get 2 or 4 SAE they do great with ottos. Maybe some bosemani rainbow fish. In that room they will get to 4plus inches with a girth of about 1 1/2”. Angelfish will grow big in there and maybe even some geos.

 

[LHAquatics]

How did you manage to scape such a huge tank? Must have been really hard and expensive. You deserve this outstanding finish

 

[MacZ]

Ok we are talking a 200gallon tank and not 200 liters? That tank is huge! I would suggest some larger fish. To help with algae get 2 or 4 SAE they do great with ottos. Maybe some bosemani rainbow fish. In that room they will get to 4plus inches with a girth of about 1 1/2”. Angelfish will grow big in there and maybe even some geos.

I actually find it charming and refreshing that the OP is aiming for smaller species.

 

[MickSG]

Ok we are talking a 200gallon tank and not 200 liters? That tank is huge! I would suggest some larger fish. To help with algae get 2 or 4 SAE they do great with ottos. Maybe some bosemani rainbow fish. In that room they will get to 4plus inches with a girth of about 1 1/2”. Angelfish will grow big in there and maybe even some geos.

Yeah, the display tank has a volume close to 800 litres. The sump is another 250 litres. I considered Rainbow fish (they look fascinating) but with the exception of a few feature fish I'm leaning towards larger schools of smaller fish, which I hope will lend itself to a more serene peaceful vibe. I hope it also makes my driftwood logs and the spaces between seem larger. I find it quite rewarding to study a tank and play find the fish.

How did you manage to scape such a huge tank? Must have been really hard and expensive. You deserve this outstanding finish

Thanks LH. In the tank is about about 200 kg of petrified wood, 100 kg of river sand, 40kg of wood, 25+ species of plants, and a whole lot of lave stone, cable ties and super glue. It was a lot of fun Definitely the most challenging aspect was coming up with something that was viewable from two different sides.

 

[TClare]

Its beautiful, and I think the otos will be fine in such a large planted tank, though I would also recommend some supplementary feeding at first. I also have a large planted tank, not as big but over 150 gallons, and I am enjoying having mostly smaller fish in there (I do have angelfish as well though).

 

[Mudminnow]

My otocinclus love Repashy Soilent Green.

 

[MickSG]

The ottos absolutely destroyed the 3 romaine lettuce leaves i put in the tank last night. Poor buggers must have been hungry. They didn't touch the boiled carrot though...

 

[MacZ]

You will have to experiment. Also be careful with lettuce in general, the amounts of fertilizer on lettuce are higher than most people think.

 

[86 ssinit]

Tough now being a new tank. Feeding them kind of takes away why you put them in your tank. What some people do is take a flat rounded stone and put it in a bowl of water. Than put it in the sun till it turns green than put the stone in the tank. You’ll need a few stones. This keeps them eating algae and not waiting for you to drop in the food. I never feed mine.

 

[MacZ]

Agree. Basically Otos have to be offered food 24/7, when there is no aufwuchs yet.

Edit: Or you could go a route that may seem harsh and gruesome. Let them be and let the population shrink naturally. Controversial, but the only third option between supplementory feeding and catching & rehoming them. With any of the options there will be losses to account for.
But any Otos that are still alive after 6 months will make it for years. (general rule)

 

[TClare]

I never feed mine now, but at first I gave them algae wafers and courgette (zucchini), which they were keen on initially but later started to ignore, presumably because there was more natural food in the tank as it matured. I only lost one just after the first month, the rest are fine nearly a year later.

 

[MickSG]

2 weeks in and I still have 19 of em. Fingers crossed. Aren't ferts just nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus? My tank is swimming in the stuff.

 

[TClare]

2 weeks in and I still have 19 of em. Fingers crossed. Aren't ferts just nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus? My tank is swimming in the stuff.

Those are just the macro nutrients that plants need in fairly large quantites, but there are also many micronutrients that are required in small amounts. Some fertilizers contain only micronutrients. Also potassium is often not abundant and may need supplementing, even if there is plenty of N and P.

 

[AverageAquarist22]

Looks amazing! I personally would have stocked with angelfish or maybe gouramis of some sort, but your stocking choices are really cool! Can’t wait to see it starting to come together more

 

[MickSG]

Those are just the macro nutrients that plants need in fairly large quantites, but there are also many micronutrients that are required in small amounts. Some fertilizers contain only micronutrients. Also potassium is often not abundant and may need supplementing, even if there is plenty of N and P.

My fert reference was in reply to the comment about lettuce being covered in fertilizer, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing. And yes I am also dosing micros as well as macros

Actually one question about ferts, how much calcium and magnesium is really needed? My tap water has calcium at around 10ppm and magnesium at only 1ppm. I'm adding another 10ppm calcium via calcium nitrate each week, and 6ppm of magnesium via epsom salts. This is working out to be 100g of epsom salts which seems excessive.. so I want to double check my math. The amounts I'm adding right now are actually double this due to my current water change regime..

Looks amazing! I personally would have stocked with angelfish or maybe gouramis of some sort, but your stocking choices are really cool! Can’t wait to see it starting to come together more

Good idea on the gouramis. I'm actually thinking about whether 2 pearl gouramis would fit in, but I'll have a better idea after other stock has been introduced.

 

[MacZ]

Aren't ferts just nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus? My tank is swimming in the stuff.

Aquarium fertilizers: Yes. Crop fertilizers can include ammonia and nitrite and some other stuff not healthy for fish. I would actually go with organic veggies provided they didn't use coppersulfate (not sure about the sulfate-part) as a pesticide.

 

[TClare]

My fert reference was in reply to the comment about lettuce being covered in fertilizer, which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing. And yes I am also dosing micros as well as macros

Actually one question about ferts, how much calcium and magnesium is really needed? My tap water has calcium at around 10ppm and magnesium at only 1ppm. I'm adding another 10ppm calcium via calcium nitrate each week, and 6ppm of magnesium via epsom salts. This is working out to be 100g of epsom salts which seems excessive.. so I want to double check my math. The amounts I'm adding right now are actually double this due to my current water change regime..

Good idea on the gouramis. I'm actually thinking about whether 2 pearl gouramis would fit in, but I'll have a better idea after other stock has been introduced.

Haha, yes, sorry I should have read the preceding posts more carefully! On that subject I have only used our own home grown vegetables (no pesticides or synthetic fertilizers), thinking more of pesticides that could be harmful, but yes, good point, I suppose fertilizers could be an issue too as they have high concentrations of N and P. I am afraid I can’t answer the question about calcium and magnesium amounts, I have just relied on all in one fertilizers.

 

[MacZ]

Good idea on the gouramis. I'm actually thinking about whether 2 pearl gouramis would fit in, but I'll have a better idea after other stock has been introduced.

I think some (2-4) Mesonauta (festivums) or Cleithracara (keyholes) might fit the general South America-leaning theme best. I find them the better alternatives to Angelfish (I feel like those are just ubiquitous.)

So with Otos, Emperors, Apistos and one of those you have quite a nice biotope community.

You could think about some surface dwellers as well. Maybe hatchets, but I think eques pencilfish are also interesting. 20-25 of either.

 

[philly27]

wow immaculate looking tank! i hope you keep posting additions to the tank on here. just wow

 

[TClare]

I think some (2-4) Mesonauta (festivums) or Cleithracara (keyholes) might fit the general South America-leaning theme best. I find them the better alternatives to Angelfish (I feel like those are just ubiquitous.)

So with Otos, Emperors, Apistos and one of those you have quite a nice biotope community.

You could think about some surface dwellers as well. Maybe hatchets, but I think eques pencilfish are also interesting. 20-25 of either.

I agree totally with all those suggestions, and much prefer to have fish together at least from the same continent. The keyholes might be safer for the plants than Mesonauta, but Mesonauta would look really good as they swim more in the middle to top of the tank, a group would look stunning in that tank And they have a lot of “personality “. Actually in that size of tank you could probably have both, or more of each. I have read mixed reports about Mesonauta and plants, otherwise I would have liked them for my big planted tank instead of angelfish. I have them in another tank that has fewer plants, so far they have not eaten any plants, but they are still small. Another fish that is working really well in my big tank is Laetacara araguaiae. Do you think the eques pencilfish would be big enough not to be eaten by adult Mesonauta?

 

[MacZ]

Do you think the eques pencilfish would be big enough not to be eaten by adult Mesonauta?

They get to 5-6 cm. I would call that safe. If that should be too risky hatchets would be the safe alternative.
I haven't seen Mesonauta in many planted tanks actually... hmm.

Oh and something definitely useful: Leaf litter! There are so many open sand areas, that would really give it a natural finish!

 

[carsonsgjs]

I agree totally with all those suggestions, and much prefer to have fish together at least from the same continent. The keyholes might be safer for the plants than Mesonauta, but Mesonauta would look really good as they swim more in the middle to top of the tank, a group would look stunning in that tank And they have a lot of “personality “. Actually in that size of tank you could probably have both, or more of each. I have read mixed reports about Mesonauta and plants, otherwise I would have liked them for my big planted tank instead of angelfish. I have them in another tank that has fewer plants, so far they have not eaten any plants, but they are still small. Another fish that is working really well in my big tank is Laetacara araguaiae. Do you think the eques pencilfish would be big enough not to be eaten by adult Mesonauta?

I wouldnt trust festivums with them. I added a group of phantom tetras a few years back and they were fairly big (had been in the shop for a while). My thought process was that they were deeper bodied and would therefore be safe with a festivum - they werent. He ate 4 immediately and left me with two. He ate them a few weeks later when i missed a feeding one day.

 

[TClare]

I wouldnt trust festivums with them. I added a group of phantom tetras a few years back and they were fairly big (had been in the shop for a while). My thought process was that they were deeper bodied and would therefore be safe with a festivum - they werent. He ate 4 immediately and left me with two. He ate them a few weeks later when i missed a feeding one day.

Shame...as with angelfish it might work if the small fish are already fully grown and small festivums are added later....risky though I guess.

 

[MickSG]

Thanks for the great ideas, I like the idea of keeping it all to South America. Plenty to choose from there. I have a mate who sources giant plakat bettas and is absolutely convinced one should go in the tank. They do look quite colorful..
Another fish that has my interest is a small pleco like an L333 or an L236

 

[MacZ]

I think a betta would be lost in that tank.

Plecos are possible, question is how much they would impact the scape and how much they disturb the dwarf cichlids (should you stick to those). Dwarf cichlids are diurnal, plecos often nocturnal. Heard of more than one case where the cichlids stressed out due to lack of sleep. Not because the plecos attacked them, just because they disturbed them.

 

[Yeoy]

Wow. First of all, absolutely stunning tank from both sides. The amount of effort you've put in to the scaping and planting is epic. Very impressed and will surely get even better as the plants mature.

Re: stocking, I love ottos. Kinda hard to get where I am but should have a great home in your tank in the future.

I'm also a huge fan of lots of little fish rather than a few big ones taking over the tank. Some of the smaller rainbows like threadfin (werneri) could be a great addition (as long as you have a good lid). Also love hatchetfish (another rarity here) and they look awesome in a school.

A friend of mine had a mixed school of emperor tetras (some purple and some blue) that schooled together and looked awesome. 50 would be epic. Regardless of the outcome, very excited to see how Abby's tank turns out.

 

[Redshark1]

Heard of more than one case where the cichlids stressed out due to lack of sleep. Not because the plecos attacked them, just because they disturbed them.

My Sailfin Pleco attacked my other fish at night and sadly had to be removed.

 

[MacZ]

My Sailfin Pleco attacked my other fish at night and sadly had to be removed.

Those are known to do that, but in this tank I would rather expect the OP to put in clown plecos or similar small L-Numbers. Those tend to just disturb every fish that sleeps on the ground level or in caves. But usually ends with stressed out cichlids near the surface in the mornings.

 

[Linda1234]

I've not had any issues with my clown pleco disturbing other fishes. Rather small and shy the biggest 'problem' is he is only seen once every other month.

 

[MacZ]

It's expicitly about combining plecos with dwarf cichlids. No problems with that?

 

[Linda1234]

I've had kribs, nannacara and cockatoo with him and have not observed any issues. The duration has been about 18 months. Well not the kribs; I removed them about 8 months ago for other reasons.

 

[MacZ]

There are always exceptions. I haven't heard of many instances where that worked out. Anything special about your tank? I want to know how it can work out.

 

[Linda1234]

I don't think there is anything special about it. It is large enough for each group of fish to have their own area. The clown pleco has a small cave in the back middle of the tank inside a piece of drift wood and he is extremely shy. He mostly stays there though at night he does venture out a bit. There just isn't any reason for him to mingle with the dwarf cichlid. I could see if the tank was a lot smaller he might be forced to interact with other fishes as he looks for food but i think by nature he is mostly solitary.

So i would say the 'special' feature is a large enough environment where there is no reason for interaction. I could see more aggressive pleco being an issue but as far as i can tell the clown is extremely docile. The only time he has shown any spunk is when another fish backs into his cave but even then he just uses display to encourage the other party to leave. Perhaps you are thinking of another species of pleco or perhaps you mixed them in a very small tank ?

 

[MacZ]

Ok, so it's as I thought.

Parallely there is a thread going on in another forum where someone is having trouble with an Apisto and a BN Pleco, and they are still adamant in not answering how big the tank is and I start to suspect their tank is simply too small and has an insufficient amount of hiding spots.

I myself stick to not mixing Apistos with any bottomdwellers, be it plecos or cories, after seeing enough people having exactly these problems I described above. I've heard of several L-Numbers being problematic, clowns, zebras, BN... Only thing I never heard problems about was twig catfish.

 

[jkkgron2]

I keep my bn pleco with a krib and a peacock gudgeon (along with some other fish, not just those three ) in a 40 breeder and I haven’t had any issues. The pleco has a slate cave and the other fish just leave him alone. He knows not to mess with the krib or other fish.

 

[TClare]

There are always exceptions. I haven't heard of many instances where that worked out. Anything special about your tank? I want to know how it can work out.

I have a clown pleco in a tank with two Apistogrammas and no issues, I can imagine in a smaller tank it could be more problematic though. I In that 200g tank it would probably be ok, but I doubt that you would see the pleco much, or at all.