60 gallon stocking?

[Fishmanperson]

Hello, I have a 60 gallon tank with 10 neon tetras, 3 angelfish, and a clown pleco. I was just wondering if you guys think this is good or if I'm understocked. I definitely don't mind buying some more fish.

 

[Hellfishguy]

It will be even more understocked when the angelfish start snacking on the neons.

 

[KingOscar]

I wouldn't call it understocked. I suppose if you like doing more water changes and filter maintenance you could get more fish, but don't forget those angels will get big.

To me, an overstocked tank is not only more work, but it increases the chances for illness and looks unnatural too.

 

[ProudPapa]

As long as there are adequate numbers of social, schooling, or shoaling fish I don't know that "understocked" is a thing. If you're happy with that stocking stay with it.

 

[Fishmanperson]

It will be even more understocked when the angelfish start snacking on the neons.

Actually I have had this tank for 9 months I originally had 11 neon tetras but one of them disappeared. When I first put them in a tank they would try to eat them but not anymore.

 

[Sobhan]

No its not understock. Angelfish get like atleast more than 6 inches over time.

 

[Tigerburp]

Always better to be under stocked then over stocked

 

[veggieshark]

Should we read this as "what else can I add to this tank?" Otherwise, no such thing as understocked as long as the schooling and coverage needs of the fish are met.

 

[Fishmanperson]

Hello, right now I have 3 angelfish and 1 clown pleco and did have 15 neon tetras. I don't know what is happening to the neon tetras but I think the angelfish have randomly started to snack on them since their now full grown. By the way trust me the water parameters are fine so that's not why. So anyways should I get more neon tetras or not get anything else. I heard cardinal tetras are a lot hardier and get along better with angelfish and I was also wondering if that would work.

 

[FishFiendSP]

Cardinal tetras are definitely a better choice than neon tetras since they grow up to 2in long compared to the 1.25in of a neon. You could also try black skirt tetras and have a South American biotope since all the fish live in the general same area. Another idea could be a species of corydora since they're a good cleanup crew. Some suggestions could be salt and pepper, julii, bronze, and if you can find them, venezuelan corydoras. Overstocked, correct me if I'm wrong, simply means that there's a higher chance of disease due to the increased amount of waste along with more ammonia which is toxic. As long as you have a proper and powerful filter, are doing regular water changes, and monitoring the water parameters, you should be fine.

 

[Fishmanperson]

Hello, I have a 60 gallon tank with 3 angelfish and a clown pleco and I want to add tetras but I know most tetras do not do well with angelfish. I've been reading a lot of things saying rosy tetras and angelfish get along but I would just like to know of there easy to take care of since I'm a beginner. And I would also like to know of cardinal tetras are easy to take care of as well.

 

[Fish99]

I’ve been reading up on them. It seems Cardinal tetras are black water fish so they are not so hardy.
I think any tetra that can’t fit in the Angelfish’s mouth would be good.

 

[TClare]

Rosy tetras and similar species should be quite easy and safe from angelfish. I don't think cardinals are difficult unless you have really hard water, but they might be more likely to get eaten if they are small.

 

[BigManAquatics]

I have found most tetras fairly easy to keep. Least the ones that i have kept, are.

 

[A201]

Rosy, Columbian & Diamonds are big, colorful & durable Tetras that coexist well with Angelfish.
As mentioned above, Cardinal Tetras need soft water to survive long term.

 

[Fish99]

I don't believe it is the softness of the water but the lack of bacteria in it is what they need. There is very little bacteria in blackwater because of the lack of salts. Bacteria need the salts to survive.

 

[Redshark1]

I'm keeping Cardinal Tetras in hard water and they are doing very well for me.

It is true that CTs are vulnerable when first purchased as they are transported from the fish farm to the LFS and then your tank, experiencing different water types. They can suffer from columnaris and white spot which can be devastating. It all depends on what condition they are in at the time of purchase and how you acclimatise them. I have a good source of healthy ones but some shops are not good at acclimatising them.

I also think that they may be stressed if put in with Angels as these would be predators of them in nature. Cardinals are in my experience rather nervous fish. I was watching them feed at the front last night and they swam to the back of the tank when they saw my wife in the next room (as shown in this picture).

 

[Noroomforshoe]

I read that Rosey tetras get to 1.5 inches. I think they are too small to live with angels. I also think the Cardinals are a bit too small. Angelfish may be pretty peaceful , but don't forget that they are still predatory cichlids.

 

[MacZ]

Let's set some things straight.

Can cardinal tetras and other blackwater fish survive in hard water? - With proper acclimation: Yes. Period. They can live in it for years, sure, but ideal it is not.

Are there any downsides keeping them in hard water? - Sadly, yes, also. They are not only softwater fish, they are also blackwater fish, which is a subset of softwater aquatics.
Softwater fish are at a disadvantage in hard water. Their gills and kidneys are adapted to retain minerals and salts. In softwater this is a survival strategy, because there the osmotic pressure pushes for an equilibrium of these substances in- and outside the fish. If they wouldn't retain it they would die from mineral loss.
In hard water, as fish keep taking in water all the time, this becomes a problem. Hardwater fish have to excrete minerals to not accumulate too much. Softwater fish can only adapt to a degree via the gills. The result: Softwater fish in hard water tend to get severe kidney problems and to be generally more sickly and weak. (Domestic Betta-Syndrome I call it lately.)

And the blackwater? - As said by somebody above, blackwater is even more extreme than softwater. 0 or below detection levels of everything plus very acidic (pH 4-6) environment. That's an environment with very little bacteria. Fish that have adapted to these extreme conditions have done so mostly to be safe from bacteria. Or rather to have their spawn safe from them. As a result they are very vulnerable to bacteria in general.

In my experience, when you offer the fish the perfect water conditions for their needs they do extremely well. I haven't had any losses from disease or parasites in a while. The last losses (among them my last cardinal) were due vulnerability from old age.

I read that Rosey tetras get to 1.5 inches. I think they are too small to live with angels. I also think the Cardinals are a bit too small. Angelfish may be pretty peaceful , but don't forget that they are still predatory cichlids.

Rosey tetras grow definitely bigger than cardinals by at least a centimeter and are already safe due to they hard-to-swallow high-backed body shape. Fully grown cardinals are also safe from angels. It's always the size ratio. Juvenile, small tetras and fully grown angels don't work together. Fully grown tetras with younger angels do very well. Both fully grown also doesn't pose a problem.

 

[Fishmanperson]

I have a 60 gallon tank with 3 angelfish and 1 clown pleco. I did have 12 neon tetras but I'm down to 6 because I think the angelfish are snacking on them. The water parameters are perfect so it's not that. But I just really love tetras so I was wondering if there are any tetras that can be kept with angelfish?

 

[KingOscar]

I like keeping Black Skirt Tetras with mine. They get too big for angels to eat and I like how their laterally compressed bodies complement the angels body.

They also have never tried to nip my angels. Actually, they seem to avoid getting in her way!

 

[ProudPapa]

I had lemon tetras and black neon tetras with my single anglefish with no issues.

 

[86 ssinit]

Any tetras that don’t fit in there mouths. Serpae tetras, phantom tetras, Congo, Buenos Arias…..

 

[Fishmanperson]

Hello, I want to get lemon tetras for my 60 gallon tank but I have 3 angelfish in it. So I was just wondering if lemon tetras could work with them?

 

[MacZ]

Yes, lemons should work.

 

[Fish99]

I've been reading up on the subject of adult soft water fish. It seems the problem is not with the soft water, hard water is ok. The problem with these fish is the bacteria they encounter in an aquarium. They will succumb to disease because they can't fight off so much bacteria like other fish can. They are not made for it.
Of course there are limits to everything, but these limits seem way too tight in this hobby and it makes it harder than it has to be. The more I learn the more I find that anecdotal evidence of "facts" are astounding in fish keeping.
The key to keeping them (as every other fish) is lots of good filtration. It's not good enough to keep ammonia and nitrite to zero, that's easy, it's much harder to keep the water clean from bacteria without lots of filtration.

 

[MacZ]

I've been reading up on the subject of adult soft water fish. It seems the problem is not with the soft water, hard water is ok. The problem with these fish is the bacteria they encounter in an aquarium. They will succumb to disease because they can't fight off so much bacteria like other fish can. They are not made for it.

It's not just the bacteria. Parameters and bacteria go hand in hand and the pH and ion concentration determine the amounts of bacteria.

it's much harder to keep the water clean from bacteria without lots of filtration.

100% RO, peat and botanicals and the bacteria count goes down quickly. Filtration is only part of the solution. With filtration alone the bacteria density does not show any difference. How would that work? You are leading water through media colonized by microfauna, that does not affect bacteria counts in said water negatively.

The only alternatives to soft acidic water are UV sterilizers or antibiotics. The one requires one to have an external filter running and the other one is a bad idea to keep dosed in a tank permanently.

 

[ProudPapa]

Hello, I want to get lemon tetras for my 60 gallon tank but I have 3 angelfish in it. So I was just wondering if lemon tetras could work with them?

They worked for me. See my reply above.

 

[Fish99]

It's not just the bacteria. Parameters and bacteria go hand in hand and the pH and ion concentration determine the amounts of bacteria.


100% RO, peat and botanicals and the bacteria count goes down quickly. Filtration is only part of the solution. With filtration alone the bacteria density does not show any difference. How would that work? You are leading water through media colonized by microfauna, that does not affect bacteria counts in said water negatively.

The only alternatives to soft acidic water are UV sterilizers or antibiotics. The one requires one to have an external filter running and the other one is a bad idea to keep dosed in a tank permanently.

To be clear, I do mean bio filtration NOT mechanical.
Surface biofilm and biofloc bacteria that feed on dissolved organic materials in the filter. This is different than the good ol' BB we all think of for the cycle. This is heterotrophic bacteria which keeps the DOCs in check. I guess you can look at it like this, keep all the bacteria in the filter, not in your fishes water. This give the little guys a fighting chance to fend off other pathogens too.
And yes, UV works very well too.
if you would like to pm me I will provide a link to some info I'm sure you would enjoy. The last time I provided a link to something on this forum my post was edited and changed to a link on this forum. I'm not so sure what's up with that?? I find that very odd.

 

[MacZ]

I was also referring to biological. I mean generally we have little bacteria in the watercolumn, most are on surfaces anyway. The only thing that came to my mind was the use of mattenfilters that have an influence on reduction potential, which leads to conditions that keep potentially pathogenic bacteria in check without changing parameters. To my knowledge this is more a thing of the filter type.

Sure, send me a PM, my mailbox is open.

There are some websites you can't link to, that are being changed automatically, some get changed manually. I know at least of two and am actually thankful, because those two were really problematically promoting esoteric ideas that were doing a lot of damage.

 

[Lebeeze]

Lemon tetras worked for me with my angels, as did black neons! I tried rummynose in the same tank and they all got eaten pretty quick, and they were a fairly large size too.