Giving up on gouramis - what now?

I have a planted 5 year old 55 tank, with 5 honey gourami, around a dozen lambchop rasboras, an unknown number of kuhli loaches, a colony of neocaridina shrimp, the usual snails and one rabbit snail. After all the time and a lot of work, I still can't keep gouramis alive. About every 6 weeks to 2 months one of them dies.

Thinking the problem was my hard water, I got an RO filter and mixed that water with my tap water, using water with a TDS around 175 for water changes. When that didn't solve the problem, I got a UV sterilizer, a Green Killing Machine. That didn't stop the gourami deaths.

I've had the rasboras around 3 years and while the school has gotten a little smaller, they are doing ok.

I've had the loaches around 2 years. I started with a dozen, and they are good enough at hiding that the most I see at once is 3. I dont know how many have survived.

I am disappointed to be giving on the gouramis, as I liked their social interaction, but I don't want to keep buying fish I clearly can't keep alive. There were spells when things would go better but they didn't last.

I think I want to switch to platies as the main fish. I'm writing here for advice on making the changeover.

It's really only the gouramis I want to get rid of, but I don't think the loaches will survive the hard water the platies will require. So I could keep the rasboras, who did ok in the hard water, and replace them with something else as they age out.

So I guess I'll have to remove the plants, rocks and driftwood in order to catch the loaches and gouramis. I'll have to have somebody lined up to take the fish I have. I can see this being a problem, because who wants fish from a tank where fish die all the time? As a last resort, the local humane society takes fish.

It seems to me that I will never be able to catch these fish without tearing the tank down. I don't want to do this but I don't want to have my only large tank occupied by a few loaches and a dwindling school of rasboras. That's a lot of water changes for not much return.

Anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it.

First, the Kuhli Loaches will do just fine in hard water. I kept them in very hard water when I first started keeping fish, they survived very well.

You do not mention the temperature of the tank, that could be important. The roots of the floating plants look a bit strange to me, what plants are those?

There is a problem reporting form somewhere around here, I'd suggest filling that out so that we can see all the parameters of the tank.

The temp is usually around 76 degrees. My house isn't air conditioned, and we had a long hot spell this summer where the water temp got into the mid-80's.

During that time, I had the lights on much less than usual in an effort to stop the tank from getting hotter. During this time, the floating hornwort died way back. The floating plants are hornwort and duckweed, and some crypts that started floating during this long very low light spell. I've never seen this before, but I think they were runners that became floaters due to the low lights. The other roots you see are pothos.

The water test 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites and <20 mintrates. PH is 7.6. I don't have a test kit for the GH or KH.

I can certainly understand your pain! GBRs are my version of your Honey Gourami. As much as I love them, I have learned to embrace Bolivian's because they thrive where the GBRs don't long-term.

I don't know that I've experienced issues with Gourami in my hard water and I know we likely have similar raw water because we're not that far from each other. But I've had Honey's before as well as Pearl, Dwarf, and I think another kind, but can't remember which. They all lived several years. Have all yours come from the same store or breeder? Maybe they've just got bad lines?

I'm also curious, do they pass and you find them at the bottom? Or are they just disappearing?

Also, I've had a lot of success with Kuhli Loaches in my hard water. They did splendid. I have kept them with Platys too. I think you're good from that standpoint.

Some of them disappear without a trace, others become weak, start sitting still at the top or lying on the bottom. Over a week or so, they get weaker until I can catch them by hand and euthanize them. They've c ome from two sources, the Wet Spot by mail duting covid and a well respected LFS since. They all look fine - vigorous and colorful, till they don't. No visible illness to see. I haven't used meds as I don't know what's wrong and the rest of the animals look fine, except one fish.

I was thinking of all male platies; from what I read, they are pretty mellow. I guess I could start with 5 platies and add platies as the gouramis die.

It's a mystery to me why I can't keep these fish. I read about people keeping them in smaller groups and tanks and they seem to do fine.

One of the reasons I kept re-stocking with gouramis is that they kept dying one at a time. I'd get the stock up to 10. Six months half of them would have died. I'd still have 5 or 6, so I'd get some more to keep them company, and 6 months later, I'm write back were I was.

I healthy aquarium is very peaceful. One where you half expect to see a sick or dead fish whenever you look at the tank is not.

Sorry abt your losses.

Espei rasboras do tend to prefer water on the softer side…..2-12 GH. Mine are at 2-5 GH and KH. How do you know you have hard water and how hard is it? Your getting a GH and KH test would really help your situation imo. Knowing how hard (GH) or alkaline (KH) your water is would enable more precise strategies.

I have a TDS meter. Water is around 380 TDS out of the tap.

Yes, I been meaning to replace my expired GH and KH test kit.

I would enjoy having platies put don't want to deal with fry. I wonder about all males but wonder if they'd spend all their time bickering for dominance.

Also considering cherry barbs.

What I have enjoyed about the gourami is their social interaction and their size. Big enough to see from across my small living but small enough and slow enough that a 4 ft tank was enough.

The temp is usually around 76 degrees. My house isn't air conditioned, and we had a long hot spell this summer where the water temp got into the mid-80's.

During that time, I had the lights on much less than usual in an effort to stop the tank from getting hotter. During this time, the floating hornwort died way back. The floating plants are hornwort and duckweed, and some crypts that started floating during this long very low light spell. I've never seen this before, but I think they were runners that became floaters due to the low lights. The other roots you see are pothos.

The water test 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites and <20 mintrates. PH is 7.6. I don't have a test kit for the GH or KH.

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One of the issues with elevated temperatures is that warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen. If they are spending more time at the top, especially if they exhibit rapid breathing, then they may be oxygen-starved.

If you don't already, I'd definitely add airstones to increase surface agitation; this will increase dissolved oxygen in the tank, and position a couple of fans to blow across the tank and reduce the water temperature by increasing evaporation. The fans don't need to be super strong; just keep the air moving over the water.

If you aren't already, I'd consider doing the above even if you give up on Gouramis.

It has a Fluval 407 that provides more flow than I like and an air stone in the other end of the tank.

I use fans when I have the lights on but it gets too warm - highs in the mid-90's and lows in the upper 70's for weeks at a time - I turn off the lights and the fan.

A good part of the year, my house is frozen along with the rest of Wisconsin. The room the aquarium is in is usually around 75 for reasons related to humans. The tank is usually 2-3 degrees warmer cause of the lights and the sterilizer.

The problem with the gouramis is no worse in the summer than in the winter.

Definitely a mystery. I wondered at first about the oxygen too, but if you've got that covered, I'm not sure. It certainly looks and sounds like a tank that should work well for that species.

If you do end up replacing, I would totally do the Cherry Barbs over the Platys. Not as prolific of breeders, and the red, even of females, pops so beautifully against a well planted tank.

Any thots about gold barbs vs cherry barbs? I prefer fish that are less apt to hassle other fish.

I see fishlore's info page says golds eat yr plants.

Ive never had any luck with gourami, lost two honeys within a couple months got two more and gone in a month or two. Heard about gourami disease especially in the honeys so bought 3 pearls. All three gone in a couple of months no obvious signs of disease.
I won't have gourami again.

I keep YoYo' Loaches in my mineral rich local tap. The PH hangs around 8.2. You might consider a group of those.

If you like the shape & vibrant colors of a Groumi, and want to keep a hard water loving fish, along with the Swordtails, look at getting a solo female Salvini.

I keep one Female Salvini as well as one male Electric Blue Acara, just to add a splash of color to my Barb & Loach community.

Both are midsized Cichlids, topping out between 5" - 8". Eight inches would be a rarity.

If you are wanting to add a new Barb variety, look at the Black Ruby Barb. The females look a lot like Tiger Barbs, but the males are jet black w/ a bright pink - purple face. They are far less aggressive than Tiger Barbs and have found them to be longer lived.

Gouramis are so over bred, making them genetically weaker, much like modern day Guppies. I'm sure the noted deaths were somehow related to weak genes rather than operator error.

Yeah, its been a hot August here too. Most days at or a little over 100 degrees. Oh well, that's Oklahoma. Lol

Here are pics of listed fish I mentioned above.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my question.

It could be that this tank has at long last become stable, so for now I'll be patent and see what happens with the 5 gouramis before I ad anything. In the meantime, I'll get a few more loaches and rasboras.

I’m no expert but with a TDS so high out of the tap, maybe using rodi water 100% for filling and top off would fix your problem. It’s more tedious but it’s doable, especially with an ATO.

This is a shame. I have a honey gourami I got from PetSmart (U.S.). Lost one, but they replaced him with another within the 14 day window. He was in QT for a month, now my main tank for 2 months and is healthy, happy and beautiful.