New and anxious

[SakuraFish]

Hello,

I have a 55L long tank which I cycled using pure ammonia. It took a couple of months but I got there. So I bought 6 green neon tetras from a reputable store to start things off. Unfortunately one of the fish died on day 2. No apparent cause.

Temp is 27 degrees Celsius
No detectable ammonia or nitrates
Nitrates under 5
PH 7
Tank has an internal filter as well as a small sponge filter.
I have a mixture of epiphyte plants, floating plants and some silk ones to fill in space.
Substrate is inert small gravel.

They are very shy/scared fish and hide a when I feed the tank, so I am not sure if they are eating properly or not. I crush up flakes, pellets and daphnia treats so that they are small enough for their mouths.

Can I expect them to keep hiding until I add more fish?

Is there anything else I should be checking?

The surviving 5 look ok, swim well when I catch them from a distance. Their colour looks good and they swim together when they come out. There has been some glass surfing when the aquarium light is on so I don't leave it on long... just a few hours a day for the plants.

I'm just really anxious that I've done something wrong and I don't want to be the cause of fish deaths .

Thanks for your help.

 

[BlueRaccoon]

I don't see anything that you have done wrong. You're one of the few new fish keepers who started off right. Not many of us can say that. I can't.

When you get fish, you just never know. It is hard to say why you lost your fish. I do not know about green neon tetras, but regular neon tetras are very sensitive and are known to die on people. I've lost one fish in a group before, and the rest of the group was fine. So this may not mean anything for the rest of your fish.

Are they glass surfing or playing in a current? My fish surf to have fun in a current some times.

Can you add a picture of your tank?

 

[Noroomforshoe]

I agree, Great start! Big tank and cycled and plants!
Somtimes a fish or too doesnt make it. Did you acclimate them?
I think adding more of the tiny little guys might make them more bold. Such a small fish, you could add another 10, but I would recomend no less then 9 total to really see them act normal.

 

[Gnop1950]

So far, it has been my experience that larger groups of schooling fish encourage more natural behaviour. I put a school of 16 Rummy Nose Tetras ( I did lose one about a week in) and 12 Congo Tetras in my 90-gallon. From day one, they schooled and even came to the front of the tank when they'd see me approach. I'm guessing they had already learned to associate people with food.

On the other hand, I had a group of neon tetras from my local fish store, and only one of those made it long term. A group of 7 ember tetras, about the same size (from an online retailer), has had no issues and is still going strong. I think I'm done with Neon Tetras for a while. I may try ordering a group from my favorite online retailer if I do try some more.

 

[TClare]

I think you are doing fine, it’s not that unusual to lose one tiny fragile fish that could have even been damaged during capture or transport. 55L (14,5 gallons) is not big, but green neons are small, you could get more and they might be less shy. Or you could think of adding some other fish such as some small pencilfish. I once moved some neon tetras from a 240l tank where they had always been out and about and confident with various other fish, to a smaller, 180l tank on their own and they just hid all the time. When I then moved the pencilfish that had been with them to the same tank they became much less shy and back to normal. Also you could try giving them some live food such as mosquito larvae, Daphnia or brine shrimps, this would surely entice them out and you would know that they are feeding (though I am sure they are getting enough anyway).

Glass surfing is quite normal with new fish, they should soon settle down and stop doing that.

You say the pH is neutral, hopefully the water is soft, do you know the GH?

 

[bgarthe]

Yep……that was going to be my next question. What is your GH and KH? My green neons are in 7.8 pH with 2-4 GH and 2-4 KH. They like larger groupings (15-20 would likely improve the behavior). And, yes….they are very acclimation sensitive. Are your green neon tetras tank raised or wild caught? Water parameters for wild caught are much more limited than are the parameters for tank raised.

Yes, another schooling fish would help like espei rasboras, ember tets, or even dwarf golden barbs (P. Gelius). This exact combination works great in my 65g.

 

[_Fried_Bettas_]

It is not usual to have unexplained losses with new fish, especially small ones, no matter how carefully you acclimate them. Often this is just weak stock from the store. Typically, these losses are limited to the week of introduction, and if the aquarium is cycled and you keep up on maintenance, the rest usually do just fine.

 

[Fishfur]

I’d like to see a pic of the tank too but it sounds to me like you’ve done everything right.

As has been said, losing one fish early on isn’t unusual and when you consider all the stresses that fish must endure being caught, packed & shipped before you ever get them home, I think it’s a bit surprising that it’s only one or maybe two now & then, instead of all the time & more of them.

Some species are naturally much shyer and more cautious than others and don’t show much or any of themselves unless they’re fairly confident the immediate area is safe - no predators lurking.

I would add some dither fish to help with that.

You certainly have room for another small species and having some dither fish should make the neons a lot more outgoing.

Just in case you’re wondering, dither fish are any fish that are naturally fairly bold & outgoing which are used to make shy species feel safe enough so they don’t hide all the time. If other fish are out and about, then shy fish feel like the area is safe for them to come out too

Ember tetras are great as dither fish and so are most any of the species of pencilfish. Green rasboras (Microdevario kubotai) are even smaller than the neons but they are not shy at all.

At just an inch long, you can have a sizeable group of them and they are fun to keep. They’re also one of the extremely few species of fish that is a green colour.

 

[SakuraFish]

I don't see anything that you have done wrong. You're one of the few new fish keepers who started off right. Not many of us can say that. I can't.

When you get fish, you just never know. It is hard to say why you lost your fish. I do not know about green neon tetras, but regular neon tetras are very sensitive and are known to die on people. I've lost one fish in a group before, and the rest of the group was fine. So this may not mean anything for the rest of your fish.

Are they glass surfing or playing in a current? My fish surf to have fun in a current some times.

Can you add a picture of your tank?

Thank you for your response. Here is a photo of the tank I just took (fish hiding as usual!). I realise my water is not fully topped off but I did a very small water change last night and didn't put quite enough back in!

They are glass surfing when there is a lot of reflection, so I think they are trying to get closer to more of themselves, i.e the reflection!

My plan was to add a group of Ember Tetras in next. But I do not know when is best to introduce them or how many?

Thank you for your help!

Unfortunately I do not have a hardness test in my liquid test kit, but I will be sure to get one and report back!

I live in a soft water area, my tap water is 6.8 but I have a couple of small rocks in the tank which plants are attached to which may cause it to be 7?

 

[Fishfur]

Looking at the tank, one issue you have is lack of hiding places & general cover.

It looks very attractive but it’s so wide open that a lot of fish would feel exposed in there.

The flat rocks look to be slate or perhaps schist, so they wouldn’t affect water chemistry. The pebbles mostly appear to be basalt so they’d have no effect either.

 

[bgarthe]

Your tank looks real nice. Do take your time adding the new fish…I’d suggest the use of a Quarantine tank.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

I strongly suggest that you add more green neons before starting a new species. I dont know if you want to try to add a second top-middle dwelling species in a 15 gallon tank. I would not do it, I think keeping more of the same species is important for their wellbeing.
I would consider a total of 12 green neons. Then let the tank settle for 2-4 weeks, If all is well, zero nitrie, zero ammonia, Happy fish eating. I suggest adding a bottom dweller such as 8 pygmy cories.

 

[GlennO]

A dark background might help too. Nice looking tank.

 

[SakuraFish]

A dark background might help too. Nice looking tank.

Thank you, I have some black vinyl I am going to swap out the white for. I think the colours of the fish will pop out more with black as well.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback and advice. By way of update:

Shortly after making my original post, I discovered my Green Neons were showing signs of Ich - perhaps that is what got the little guy that died the day after introducing to the tank - with the stress of traveling as well. I treated a full 3-day course of Esha Exit + Esha 2000 with fantastic results. All remaining fish survived with no more signs of Ich! I really recommend this treatment combo. Luckily I already had it in my fish cupboard so I could start the treatment as soon as I saw spots on a couple of the tetras.

I have also:

• checked the GH and KH (10 degrees and 8 degrees respectively) - fine but towards the higher end of what I was aiming for. To try and remedy this I have swapped out the wood ornament I had for some real aquarium driftwood (honeycomb) which is leeching some tannins into the water. Good news is my fish absolutely love swimming through it, resting in it and they are coming out more now that the water is a bit darker.
• just added some new friends for my Green Neons! I had suggestions of Embers and more Green Neons...I decided on 6 Embers. The reasoning being twofold: 1. I wanted Embers eventually anyway and 2. The only LFS I am currently able to source Green Neons from gave me Ich...so didn't want to risk it. Other shops that have them are much farther away. Embers are very easy to source in comparison.
• added a couple more real epiphytes in the foreground. Eventually I'd like to have all or mostly real plants - I'm looking out for some nice big java fern for the background!

Thanks to these upgrades, I now have a much more confident and happy group of Green Neons. And the Embers are super comfortable and confident. One of the Green Neons has been adopted by the Embers as a schooling buddy (this one was always the most confident of the neons). However, in general all fish now come out at feeding time, and after they have had their fill, they school in their separate species groups and have a play/chase until they get tired. The Green Neons are still wary of me when I come to the tank, but much less jumpy now, and come out quickly instead of just hiding all day. I suspect they were wild caught, whereas the Embers are definitely not because I asked.

I absolutely love watching my little group of fish when I come home from work. It brings me a lot of joy

Once again, thanks a lot! I don't think I want to add any more fish to this tank except maybe more of either 2 species, but I am going to add some cherry shrimp later down the road - perhaps yellow ones that will really pop and be different visually to the fish.

SakuraFish x

 

[bgarthe]

To bring down GH some, try mixing some RO water into your WC new water. But, be sure to test out your ratios so you don’t go too low or have a lack of consistency. Getting your GH (for your fish) into the mid to lower single digits would be ideal imho. Also check your KH as you do this.

 

[SakuraFish]

To bring down GH some, try mixing some RO water into your WC new water. But, be sure to test out your ratios so you don’t go too low or have a lack of consistency. Getting your GH (for your fish) into the mid to lower single digits would be ideal imho. Also check your KH as you do this.

Thank you, I hadn't thought to do that. Would I have to do this every time I WC or just to get the levels down now?

 

[_Fried_Bettas_]

Thank you, I hadn't thought to do that. Would I have to do this every time I WC or just to get the levels down now?

I have similar KH and higher GH than you, and I don't have any trouble keeping most fish. Due to the fertilization in high-tech tanks, I need to do large water changes, so mixing in RO water is very inconvenient, so I don't. If you do it, you have to always to do it, or there is no point. It may be marginally better to try to reduce your hardness, but I don't think it is necessary and unlikely to cause fish loss, unless you are referring to particularly sensitive species, which are usually wild-caught fish or to get some fish to breed. Dan's Fish, a very reputable source of fish online, says they keep their fish, including green neons, in water with a pH of 8.3, and GH and KH of about 17.

 

[bgarthe]

You would mix your desired ratio every WC so the water going in is always the same. My ratio of well water (tap) and RO is the same each time. I mix it and let it sit in a Brut garbage can w heat and aeration until my next WC. After a while, you won’t have to test very often and your parameters will be steady which is what you want. You do NOT want your GH, KH, and pH bouncing around……water must be the same each time including temperature.

Such parameters as pH, GH, and KH must be checked periodically just to be sure all is still good. Test water right after mixing. Test water after it sits for days too. You have a 20g if memory serves me correct. WCs and mixing shouldn’t be too bad. I do it w my five tanks……5,10,20,65, and 75 gallons. A little effort now will pay big dividends down the road w good fish health.

My green neons, cardinals, Rasbora species, discus, gouramis, angels and other tetras all do, or have done, well in water w a pH of 7.8, GH and KH between 2-5. I have not had good long term results keeping these in hard water. For me, mixing water is just a facet of doing my fish care at WC time. Once you get it going, it’s not a big deal at all.

Just read that Dan’s Fish comment and I can only hope (with due respect) that the stated 17 hardness for green neons is in ppm which is good. If that 17 is in degrees, then that would equal about 306 ppm which (imho) would be like liquid rock for green neons and surely troublesome. I only say this bc keeping these in very hard water (depending on which water hardness chart one uses) does not bode well for them. If you doubt my points, feel free to research water parameters for green neon tetras. Or, perhaps others who keep these as I do can chime in.

 

[SakuraFish]

You would mix your desired ratio every WC so the water going in is always the same. My ratio of well water (tap) and RO is the same each time. I mix it and let it sit in a Brut garbage can w heat and aeration until my next WC. After a while, you won’t have to test very often and your parameters will be steady which is what you want. You do NOT want your GH, KH, and pH bouncing around……water must be the same each time including temperature.

Thank you that's very helpful

 

[KadenSlone04]

Thank you for your response. Here is a photo of the tank I just took (fish hiding as usual!). I realise my water is not fully topped off but I did a very small water change last night and didn't put quite enough back in!

They are glass surfing when there is a lot of reflection, so I think they are trying to get closer to more of themselves, i.e the reflection!

My plan was to add a group of Ember Tetras in next. But I do not know when is best to introduce them or how many?

Thank you for your help!

Unfortunately I do not have a hardness test in my liquid test kit, but I will be sure to get one and report back!

I live in a soft water area, my tap water is 6.8 but I have a couple of small rocks in the tank which plants are attached to which may cause it to be 7?

To reduce the hiding, I would add many more botanicals (driftwood, alder cones, branches, various fallen tree leaves, live floating plants) to provide shade with plant cover and to darken the water with tannins.

The pH measures between 6.5-6.0ish on the test strip and the GH and KH show at the lowest color (<20 ppm) as I did not add any major hardening agents (the substrate below the leaves is Fluval Stratum). I did not add any artificial chemicals to lower pH except using RO water and rain water. I set the heater close to 82°F on rainless days and 79°F on rainy days to attempt spawning triggers. I did this to replicate the conditions where they live in the wild, in the morichales swamps in the tributaries of the Rio Negro and the Rio Orinoco.

They swim all over this 29-gallon, performing different behaviors seemingly every half-hour of the day and dependent on the weather, but if I walk into the room too quickly or go too close to this tank they will all rapidly hide until I leave the room. It is as if they see me as the predator, but I can't blame them because I replicated their wild environment which is full of predators and I gave them good hiding spots. Whenever I ended up scaring them, they initially would all hide in one corner with dense guppy grass cover, but as I have gradually built up more inches of the leaf layer and the guppy grass has spread apart, they have learned to take cover under the leaves. I can get video and screenshots of them on some days if I creep slowly enough toward them without any fast or sudden movements.

 

[SakuraFish]

To reduce the hiding, I would add many more botanicals (driftwood, alder cones, branches, various fallen tree leaves, live floating plants) to provide shade with plant cover and to darken the water with tannins.

What a beautiful tank! Thank you for your advice.

Initially I was not going for any sort of blackwater look. It's not generally my cup of tea because I find it very difficult to see the fish, but since my driftwood has been naturally leeching tannins into the water, and since I have added 2 big hunks of java fern, I am seeing more happy, outgoing behaviour in the fish. They still hide when I come close, but if I stay and watch them a while, most of them do come out a bit especially the embers and their adopted neon. I think I just need to accept that I picked shy nano fish who are prey species, and they may not ever be out and about like I envisioned. That's fine. I will embrace the tank I have and its inhabitants. I just want to make sure they're happy, y'know?

 

[Redshark1]

My neons were not shy with the back and sides blacked out and masses of plants for security.

I would also get more green neons to augment your shoal if they are healthy.

Ich has needed 2 weeks of treatment for me, the life cycle is the reason. The life stages you cannot see have to be killed off too.