Might Have Jumped The Cycle Early

[Jahnelle]

Ammonia 1
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 40
Ph 7
Gh 12
Kh 3


Newly cycled tank. New to the whole fish keeping thing. It had 5 rasbora that were doing fine. A week later, I added 4 fancy guppies and my 30 gallon tank has the above readings and white algae. The interwebz has all sorts of ideas about what to do, and it's confusing. Are the ammonia / nitrite readings dangerously high? What can I do to lower them?

 

[kallililly1973]

Any amounts of ammonia and nitrites are unsafe for any inhabitants. I would Do a 50-75% WC and dechlorinate the water going in with Prime and retest tomorrow.

 

[fjh]

Generally I consider water toxic when the ammonia + nitrite is greater than 1ppm.
Do a 50+% water change. If you can, use prime or another ammonia detox product.
Don't add any more fish until your cycle can catch up and test daily and do WCs as needed to make sure you don't kill your fish

 

[Skavatar]

Prime will help. Use up to 5x the regular dosage. Works for up to 48 hrs.

Do water changes every 2 days.

 

[LynnwoodFishDad]

If you have a HOB filter with a carbon insert, take out the carbon and add more ceramics or another sponge as that gives BB more places to develop. Also maybe use QuickStart or SafeStart to jump up the BB in your media. Good luck!

I did the same thing in my 54 gallon with a lot more fish. Adding more BB really helped me and I haven’t lost a single fish...yet.

 

[Jahnelle]

Any chance I could get a pleco or snail or something to help.keep the tank clean? Seems like the culprit is.me, forgetting that I don't have a tank cleaner. Got used to.my mystery snails in the established tank. I did the water change and found a whole bunch of tiny moldy food at the bottom of the tank.

The new tank readings are
Ammonia .25
Ph 7.2
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 40

 

[e_watson09]

Any chance I could get a pleco or snail or something to help.keep the tank clean? Seems like the culprit is.me, forgetting that I don't have a tank cleaner. Got used to.my mystery snails in the established tank. I did the water change and found a whole bunch of tiny moldy food at the bottom of the tank.

The new tank readings are
Ammonia .25
Ph 7.2
Nitrite .5
Nitrate 40

No, do not add more fish until your tank is finished cycling. I would cut way back on feeding if you're finding that much extra food on the bottom. More fish are just going to add to the problem currently as you don't have enough beneficial bacteria to handle the fish load you have, and I'd imagine the over feeding is not helping the problem.

I'd continue daily 50% water changes until your readings stabilize, then depending on the size of the tank and the bioload you currently have then consider adding more fish

 

[LynnwoodFishDad]

I think your tank is big enough to add a pleco AFTER your cycle has stabilized. Make sure you talk to the LFS as some of them can get way too big for that tank.

Snails and a good scrub pad may be a better option long term.

 

[Elkwatcher]

A dwarf Pleco if your tank is big enough, they poop a lot and would just cause problems with your water perimeters until your tank is fully cycled. Minimum 20 g long with hiding place, driftwood to call his own.
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/bristlenose-pleco-minimum-tank-more.116030/

 

[DIYhack]

A dwarf Pleco if your tank is big enough, they poop a lot and would just cause problems with your water perimeters until your tank is fully cycled. Minimum 20 g long with hiding place, driftwood to call his own.
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/bristlenose-pleco-minimum-tank-more.116030/

Yah getting a pleco to clean a tank is the biggest lie in aquarium hobby.

Mine poops are like 2feet long. Dirtiest fish I’ve ever had.

 

[Elkwatcher]

Yah getting a pleco to clean a tank is the biggest lie in aquarium hobby.

Mine poops are like 2feet long. Dirtiest fish I’ve ever had.

In all honesty mine don't really keep the tanks clean, elbow grease and a good vacuum does a far better job!

 

[e_watson09]

I agree, I've had a couple that did an "okay" job but I still had to clean myself as well so the extra poop and such they were producing there was not a big cleaning benefit to them. Now my kids love to watch them so that's the part that's worth it.

Plus the OP mentioned they want them to clean up extra food which depending on the type of food and type of pleco they won't help regardless.

 

[Jahnelle]

Latest readings - water change tomorrow
GH: 10
KH: 2
PH: 7
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite : .5 - 1ppm (I can't find my testing book to see for sure, so I'm going by color memory here)
Nitrate: 40ppm

If the ammonia is gone and the nitrite is the same or up, that means it's in the middle of the nitrogen cycle, yes? or am I misunderstanding how it works?

I'm really glad to say that the inhabitants still look happy and healthy, eating well, no signs of stress!

Thanks for all your help and feedback.

I thought plecos were algae and bottom feeders. If not, what would do a good job in helping keep the tank clean? Snails or? I'm fighting pest ramshorns in my other tank, and have one crawling the new one. I've been industriously removing eggs as they are laid, so hoping that keeps the population down.

Heading to the pet store tonight for some more plants, but I was wondering about adding rocks. I think they're already soaked and whatnot at the LFS, but any suggestions on how I would introduce new plants and rocks to the aquarium?

Same question for the established aquarium, which has a problem with really high nitrates.

 

[Jahnelle]

Checking back in with the newly cycled tank. I did a water change on the 12th and added plants to the tank and Matrix to the filter. I also moved the Clancys (my two Mystery Snails) over to the tank with some trepidation. My other 30 gallon was suffering from too low PH (5.4) and my snails' shells were getting really bad really quick. I figured they "might" die if I moved them to this tank, but they would for sure die if I left them in the old one. Thankfully they're some hardy boys and are enjoying their new home.

So now it's a week later, and everything is looking pretty good. Latest readings this morning:

PH: 7
KH: 2
GH: 11
Ammonia: 0.25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 40 ppm

They're due for another water change. I'm also going to move a couple more of my fancy guppies from the established tank. LynnwoodFishDaddavid1978 wintermute Any tips on how many I can move at a time?

 

[LynnwoodFishDad]

How many total do you have?

 

[Jahnelle]

How many total do you have?

I have two 30 gallon tanks. In the newly cycled tank that I'm talking about here, I currently have:

2 Mystery Snails
5 Harlequin Rasbora
4 Fancy Guppies

In my established tank that I'm trying to thin out, I have about 13 guppies I think - I can't count them as they won't hold still. I'm trying to move all the males out and then check my stock percentages. My established tank is overstocked at 188% because I (as a new fish owner) listened to an LFS that said SURE, I could add a bunch of baby guppy eaters - there's no such thing as overstocking!

In the established tank, I have:

5 Brilliant Rasbora
6 Nerite Snails
13+ Guppies
1 Female Balloon Molly
1 Male Betta
4 X-Ray Pristella Tetra
1 Gold Skirt Tetra
1 Long finned Zebra Danio
A hand full of Ramshorn Snails

I thought maybe I could move 4 more fancy guppies over without upsetting the balance too much?

 

[Elkwatcher]

Checking back in with the newly cycled tank. I did a water change on the 12th and added plants to the tank and Matrix to the filter. I also moved the Clancys (my two Mystery Snails) over to the tank with some trepidation. My other 30 gallon was suffering from too low PH (5.4) and my snails' shells were getting really bad really quick. I figured they "might" die if I moved them to this tank, but they would for sure die if I left them in the old one. Thankfully they're some hardy boys and are enjoying their new home.

So now it's a week later, and everything is looking pretty good. Latest readings this morning:

PH: 7
KH: 2
GH: 11
Ammonia: 0.25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 40 ppm

They're due for another water change. I'm also going to move a couple more of my fancy guppies from the established tank. LynnwoodFishDaddavid1978 wintermute Any tips on how many I can move at a time?

Sometimes PH that low can be a sign of Old Tank Syndrome... are you doing regular proper water changes each week ( not topping up evaporation ) and a big 50% at least once a month? Water changes can get those Nitrates down to 20ppm or less.

Latest readings - water change tomorrow
GH: 10
KH: 2
PH: 7
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite : .5 - 1ppm (I can't find my testing book to see for sure, so I'm going by color memory here)
Nitrate: 40ppm

If the ammonia is gone and the nitrite is the same or up, that means it's in the middle of the nitrogen cycle, yes? or am I misunderstanding how it works?

I'm really glad to say that the inhabitants still look happy and healthy, eating well, no signs of stress!

Thanks for all your help and feedback.

I thought plecos were algae and bottom feeders. If not, what would do a good job in helping keep the tank clean? Snails or? I'm fighting pest ramshorns in my other tank, and have one crawling the new one. I've been industriously removing eggs as they are laid, so hoping that keeps the population down.

Heading to the pet store tonight for some more plants, but I was wondering about adding rocks. I think they're already soaked and whatnot at the LFS, but any suggestions on how I would introduce new plants and rocks to the aquarium?

Same question for the established aquarium, which has a problem with really high nitrates.

Higher nitrates could be related to Old Tank Syndrome as well, your tank can still look great but really its not.
Pest Ramshorn's procreate faster if you are overfeeding, but they are also good for cleaning algae so they do have a good side. Nerite snails are good glass cleaners but the best cleaner is you!
Plants can be dipped in a weak bleach or peroxide solution in bucket and then rinsed in declorinated water before putting in your tank.

 

[Jahnelle]

Sometimes PH that low can be a sign of Old Tank Syndrome... are you doing regular proper water changes each week ( not topping up evaporation ) and a big 50% at least once a month? Water changes can get those Nitrates down to 20ppm or less.

Thanks for weighing in Elkwatcher

The low PH is an established tank - the one I'm trying to thin out. I do water changes each week, about 25%. The last water change (last Friday) was a massive 50% change. It reduced the nitrates momentarily, but they're climbing again. You can see the progress here. I think I've narrowed that issue down to an overstocked tank, which leads to too many nitrates, which pushes PH down. Soft water (KH:1) means no buffering for the PH. At least that's what it seems if I understand the cycle correctly. I may not.

I'm trying to keep my new tank's cycle steady without crashing (the reason for this thread), while still moving fish over to it from the established tank. Which brings us down to how many I can safely move over at a time lol - they're guppies, and I'm unsure of the bioload.

Elkwatcher I have two filters on the old tank right now - One is a Marineland Penguin. I haven't changed out the filter, and I don't know when the previous owner changed out the filter (I inherited the tank about a 5 weeks ago). I did scrape it, though. The other filter is new, to help handle keeping the water clean - it's been in there since Friday.

If I changed out the filter on the Marineland, do you think that would help? or would it mess up the good bacteria?

 

[Elkwatcher]

The one time I had OTS the nitrates stayed 40ppm for quite a while even with water changes. To not disrupt the cycle I did changes daily but split them into 20% in the morning and another 20% in the evening until the nitrates were at a stable level. You are cycled.
Adding fish... a few at at time 4 maybe, and wait at least a week. Test the water before adding more. I know the feeling of wanting to get them all into their new beautiful home but resist!

Thanks for weighing in Elkwatcher

The low PH is an established tank - the one I'm trying to thin out. I do water changes each week, about 25%. The last water change (last Friday) was a massive 50% change. It reduced the nitrates momentarily, but they're climbing again. You can see the progress here. I think I've narrowed that issue down to an overstocked tank, which leads to too many nitrates, which pushes PH down. Soft water (KH:1) means no buffering for the PH. At least that's what it seems if I understand the cycle correctly. I may not.

I'm trying to keep my new tank's cycle steady without crashing (the reason for this thread), while still moving fish over to it from the established tank. Which brings us down to how many I can safely move over at a time lol - they're guppies, and I'm unsure of the bioload.

Elkwatcher I have two filters on the old tank right now - One is a Marineland Penguin. I haven't changed out the filter, and I don't know when the previous owner changed out the filter (I inherited the tank about a 5 weeks ago). I did scrape it, though. The other filter is new, to help handle keeping the water clean - it's been in there since Friday.

If I changed out the filter on the Marineland, do you think that would help? or would it mess up the good bacteria?

One filter is established and one is new. You can clean the established filter in some of the tank water swishing the filter around and get rid of the crud and return. If the new filter has been in for 5 weeks it could be seeded with BB, don't clean that one. Moving the established filter to the new tank would disturb the bioload in your old tank if you still have all your fish in it, but I don't think that's what your asking? The new one could get moved.

 

[LynnwoodFishDad]

You may want to pull the carbon layer out of your filter and replace it with another normal layer. When cleaning rinse them in old water as Elkwatcher mentioned. Carbon doesn’t do much in an established tank and can make it hard for your plants. The “mechanical” filter pads will add space for your BB to grow.

 

[Jahnelle]

One filter is established and one is new. You can clean the established filter in some of the tank water swishing the filter around and get rid of the crud and return. If the new filter has been in for 5 weeks it could be seeded with BB, don't clean that one. Moving the established filter to the new tank would disturb the bioload in your old tank if you still have all your fish in it, but I don't think that's what your asking? The new one could get moved.

Thanks - so I don't need to actually remove the filter pad and change it out, just swishing crud off is good enough. And no - I don't want to move the established filter.

The optimal results of all of this with the two tanks is to have two healthy, planted tanks with stable readings and no more than 100% stock in either. I get to practice with these two. Once I'm confident I know what I'm doing, I have a 130g that I want to sink my fingers into! Full planting, aquascaping, etc etc. Gotta get good at taking care of these fish babies first, though

You may want to pull the carbon layer out of your filter and replace it with another normal layer. When cleaning rinse them in old water as Elkwatcher mentioned. Carbon doesn’t do much in an established tank and can make it hard for your plants. The “mechanical” filter pads will add space for your BB to grow.

What's the carbon for, then? That's sounds so snotty lol, but I mean that as an actual learning question. I thought that was a necessary part of the filtration system? I think there's carbon in the actual filter pad for the Marineland filters...

 

[LynnwoodFishDad]

The carbon absorbs things...like fertilizer and medicine! I use it short term after I’ve dosed a tank for example. The BB will pull far more nitrates out than the carbon.

When I moved to a planted tank, I got rid of all the carbon. If it is built into your filter pads, you either deal with it or make a DIY pad. There are lots of threads covering how to do that in the filtration forum. That’s where I learned!

 

[Elkwatcher]

Thanks - so I don't need to actually remove the filter pad and change it out, just swishing crud off is good enough. And no - I don't want to move the established filter.

The optimal results of all of this with the two tanks is to have two healthy, planted tanks with stable readings and no more than 100% stock in either. I get to practice with these two. Once I'm confident I know what I'm doing, I have a 130g that I want to sink my fingers into! Full planting, aquascaping, etc etc. Gotta get good at taking care of these fish babies first, though



What's the carbon for, then? That's sounds so snotty lol, but I mean that as an actual learning question. I thought that was a necessary part of the filtration system? I think there's carbon in the actual filter pad for the Marineland filters...

I think you are going to be very good at it too!

 

[Jahnelle]

So, did about a 25% water change (about 7 gallons). Found a very fine film of brown algae sticking to everything, so I stirred up the waters and siphoned water as fast as I could. I also siphoned my eco complete substrate lightly and swished the filter.

And then I introduced 4 fish into the tank - two-month old male guppies.

Today's readings:

PH: 7
KH: 2
GH: 11
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 0.1
Nitrate: 40

It's about what I expected. Now I get to wait and see if the readings do what the readings are supposed to do and stabilize.

 

[Jahnelle]

Lost one of my mystery snails last night.

I tested the tank waters afterwards to make sure I didn't have an ammonia spike - wasn't sure how long it'd been dead. Everything reads great, so other than the missing member, it looks good!

PH: 7
KH: 2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20ppm

AND - the brown algae is gone! Hoping to introduce the last of the fish from the old tank into this one so I can work on getting the old tank stabilized. Maybe then we (me and all the fish) can breath and settle into beautifying the tanks!

 

[LynnwoodFishDad]

What’s your GH? Low GH and KH can be hard on snails.

 

[Jahnelle]

What’s your GH? Low GH and KH can be hard on snails.

GH is 13 last time I checked. KH is 2. I'm having an issue with low KH in my other tank as well - will be adding crushed coral as time/money allows