Lchi’s Saltwater Build- 10g To Im25 Lagoon!

[tyguy7760]

interesting...thank you for the explanation. I knew some used them for fuges but wasn't sure if they were used in that way on small tanks. Thank you for the explanation.

So could lchI put 2 clownfish in a 10? or do they need more room? Because I mean...2 would be awesome

 

[grantm91]

angel the gypsy they are domino damsel I bet, little terrors too when they grow up but certainly different, I don’t see anyone I know with them in there tank.

Geez Lchi87 I think you built a bridge here between the sw and fw sides of FL.

 

[Ohio Mark]

Watching with great interest. (And a twinge of envy.) I want a Saltwater so bad I can literally taste it... Oh. Yes, I can taste salt -- but it's salt spray from the wet roads that blew into my face as I biked to work. Well, seriously -- feeling serious Saltwater Fever developing and reading a stack of Saltwater books from the library only made it grow.

 

[Culprit]

Such a popular person LchI people see its your thread and everyones coming over LOL. AngelTheGypsy mabye black clownfish? 2 clownfish will fit in a 10 easy.

 

[KinsKicks]

Such a popular person LchI people see its your thread and everyones coming over LOL. AngelTheGypsy mabye black clownfish? 2 clownfish will fit in a 10 easy.

When stocking my first fw community I wanted to do different fish than everyone had with little luck. Either couldn’t find them or too...something. Then I realized favorites are faves for a reason. But still all about being different! Clowns are awesome! But if you want to be different there’s a perfect fish for you somewhere!
My local petco carries some wicked looking little black and white sw fish, but I have no idea what they are...

As long as you stick to ocellaris or percula! There are some clown varieties/species that are a bit too big and/or mean lol.

 

[Culprit]

Man this thread is blowing up! I think everyones super excited for your tank Lchi! I think its gonna be amazing.

 

[Lchi87]

Sheesh you guys, I barely have time to keep up with all of you haha!! I love it!!


No, tank is NOT cycled yet...I ran to petco during lunch to grab another ammonia test and it barely registered a blip so I’m going to dose more and see.


Noted on all the water change instructions and tips, I will hold off on the wcs and will raise the salinity... I had a feeling it was a little low!


The hob just has standard media in it for now but may stick another on there for chaeto. I already have a gooseneck grow light sitting around somewhere I can use...


Stocking: Admittedly VERY drawn to clowns ( grantm91 and Culprit thanks for calling me out on it ) but the colors of all the gobies and everything else really is making this difficult for me ! I want to be original too, but dang it those clowns are too adorable.... but hypothetically speaking, if I DID do a pair of clowns, what else is there room for? Probably not much else, right? Due to space and possible aggression?


Anyway, it’s nice to see my fw AND sw friends here as you all mean a great deal to me so THANK YOU everyone, I hope I don’t disappoint! If I didn’t address a question, please ask me again lol.


What’s funny is way before this sw discussion even came about, I was gifted some sw macro algae art by a friend and I hung it up over the tank when it was still a freshwater setup and now its become a saltwater tank; how’s that for unintentional foreshadowing?!

 

[DioAquatics]

Just reading all of this is teaching me so much about sw. I'm actually now contemplating turning my 10 gallon tank into a sw tank because of you lol. Your tank looks great though. Can't wait to see it with which ever fish you pick

That macro algae art was a sin that you would be getting salty soon haha

 

[grantm91]

I see a pair of 6-7 year old ocellaris clowns quite often, those guys are a full 3.5 - 4 inch id guess and chunks, it takes around 4 years but they get there, that said id still have two in a 10g, as upgrade is imminent within that time frame and they don’t seem to mind a smaller tank from what Ive seen of mine in the first year, they do explore but value having their own corner to retreat to - this could be debated all day. Id stock 2 Clowns and a neon goby if it was mine, that's what I had at the start and still got them. Grabbing a yellow rock goby tomorrow morning so that’s something for you to have a look at also lol. The thing to remember is that if you get the clowns that can be it for fish and you still have crabs, snails and some cool shrimps to choose from. Fire shrimp or pep Id go for, my favorites in a nano tank. As said though you have a lot of options, so get on YouTube google etc lol.

 

[stella1979]

Well.... there is this awesome 5 gallon by fishfanman , all full of beautiful coral and happily housing 2 clownfish. I wouldn't recommend this to just anybody, but knowing your love, respect and experience with aquaria, you may be able to add a 3rd fish. Just make sure to put that fish in before the clowns, and probably best to go with a bottom dweller.

Also, my 20 gallon reef is a closed system with a single HOB, an AC70. If you're thinking of another HOB, why not just get a larger one and keep everything in it? That would be one less tube sticking into your tank anyhow. In the AC70 I have a large bag of Matrix and a large ball of chaeto. There's still room too! I recently upset everyone by moving and mounting corals, so there's carbon in the HOB at the moment as well. And all this fits even with the little baffle we installed so a piece of floss padding can be in there, so mechanical filtration is possible too. Just don't forget, sponges and floss turn into nitrate factories, so I use it when I need it. If long term use is necessary, floss and toss it is.

 

[Lchi87]

Just reading all of this is teaching me so much about sw. I'm actually now contemplating turning my 10 gallon tank into a sw tank because of you lol. Your tank loooms great though. Can't wait to see it with which ever fish you pick

That macro algae art was a sin that you would be getting salty soon haha

Hahaha come join the salty side! I should have guessed the universe was trying to tell me something... I got that poster in September/October!

I see a pair of 6-7 year old ocellaris clowns quite often, those guys are a full 3.5 - 4 inch id guess and chunks, it takes around 4 years but they get there, that said id still have two in a 10g, as upgrade is imminent within that time frame and they don’t seem to mind a smaller tank from what Ive seen of mine in the first year, they do explore but value having their own corner to retreat to - this could be debated all day. Id stock 2 Clowns and a neon goby if it was mine, that's what I had at the start and still got them. Grabbing a yellow rock goby tomorrow morning so that’s something for you to have a look at also lol. The thing to remember is that if you get the clowns that can be it for fish and you still have crabs, snails and some cool shrimps to choose from. Fire shrimp or pep Id go for, my favorites in a nano tank. As said though you have a lot of options, so get on YouTube google etc lol.

I should definitely have a house in 4 years, then space will no longer be an issue so I can upgrade without constraints and get fancy like you have haha!
I’m actually totally okay with having just 2 clowns for fish right now as long as I can have my CUC..if I do go with clowns at the end I need to get to googling all these species in the meantime. I’m going to go have a look at your goby now!

Well.... there is this awesome 5 gallon by fishfanman , all full of beautiful coral and happily housing 2 clownfish. I wouldn't recommend this to just anybody, but knowing your love, respect and experience with aquaria, you may be able to add a 3rd fish. Just make sure to put that fish in before the clowns, and probably best to go with a bottom dweller.

Also, my 20 gallon reef is a closed system with a single HOB, an AC70. If you're thinking of another HOB, why not just get a larger one and keep everything in it? That would be one less tube sticking into your tank anyhow. In the AC70 I have a large bag of Matrix and a large ball of chaeto. There's still room too! I recently upset everyone by moving and mounting corals, so there's carbon in the HOB at the moment as well. And all this fits even with the little baffle we installed so a piece of floss padding can be in there, so mechanical filtration is possible too. Just don't forget, sponges and floss turn into nitrate factories, so I use it when I need it. If long term use is necessary, floss and toss it is.

Wow 2 clowns in a 5? I don’t know if I feel confident enough to pull that off just yet but really good to know! Definitely would stick to a bottom dweller if I was going to add a 3rd though...
Funny you mentioned just getting a bigger hob, I was eyeballing Tidal filters while at the LFS.... definitely will invest in one before I go reef; the surface skimmer they have is a neat feature and the guy I spoke to said he’s upgrading ALL his ACs to Tidals now that he’s seen how good they are. The one downside to them is they have a larger profile than the ACs so I’d have to move the tank forward a few inches but all food for thought for now as I just spent a nice chunck of change and am already drooling over better lighting... I need to get a second job to fully fund this hobby haha! Thanks for all the tips, especially the bit about the floss, I have a bit of floss in there already to help polish the water but will definitely toss when needed!

 

[DioAquatics]

I honestly might just go to the dark side lol

 

[stella1979]

Do it !!!

 

[Nart]

Yesss yesss (evil laughter) come to the dark side my freshwater friends....

 

[Nart]

Hey. Best advice for folks wanting to get into SW. Go with a All in One system right off the bat. It's the best thing I've done and am really happy with.

You don't need to deal with HOB filters, you can hide al your equipment at the back wall, AIO (all in one) surface skims for you, etc... etc...

Check out tanks by Innovative Marine Fusion 10g, Peninsula 20g, Lagoon 25g, etc... all great AIO systems and a good price. Easy setup too. Don't have to worry about drilling and plumbing like a traditional bottom tank sump for Saltwater tanks.

 

[AngelTheGypsy]

Ok, so what’s a CUC? If is freshwater followers are to keep up we need to learn the lingo...
And I’m confused about the cycle? Is it different from fresh that your not cycled since your not showing ammonia...? I’m confused. I might have missed something...

 

[shutterbug13]

Ok, so what’s a CUC? If is freshwater followers are to keep up we need to learn the lingo...

I think it is clean up crew.

 

[Nart]

AngelTheGypsy cuc stands for clean up crew. Like snails, shrimp, crabs and such. Freshwater and Saltwater is the same cycle

 

[stella1979]

Ok, so what’s a CUC? If is freshwater followers are to keep up we need to learn the lingo...
And I’m confused about the cycle? Is it different from fresh that your not cycled since your not showing ammonia...? I’m confused. I might have missed something...

A CUC is the clean up crew. The nitrogen cycle is not different at all. Ammonia can be expected without dosing because of the organics involved with things like live rock and live sand. Live rock will of course have life in it, beneficial bacteria and other things. Some or all of that life can die during transport and that will produce ammonia. If live rock is transported fast and wet, there may be no die off at all, and if it's well established then you can have an instant cycle. The rock may also be 'not very' live, in which case not enough bacteria or critters for an insta cycle or to show ammonia.

 

[AngelTheGypsy]

Ok, now I feel dumb for not knowing CUC .
Must have just read a post about the cycle wrong! I thought it was the same.

 

[Lchi87]

While we’re on the topic, what level nitrate am I shooting for? For Fw, I keep my nitrates under 20ppm..

 

[Lchi87]

Ok, now I feel dumb for not knowing CUC .
Must have just read a post about the cycle wrong! I thought it was the same.

I didn’t know until yesterday what it was lol!!
I’m treating the cycle like freshwater, I think the only thing different is that you don’t necessarily need to introduce an ammonia source as stella1979 said, the die off from the rock can be the ammonia source. I’ve chosen to add ammonia today as the ammonia test from lunch barely registered anything at all.

 

[Nart]

Try to keep it under 5ppm Nitrate.
10ppm Nitrate is okay too but you should never get to that point since you'll be doing weekly water changes anyways. What you don't want to get out of whack are your Phosphates, aI'm for 0.030 PO4 or lower. The lower the better in PO4. If you get a imbalance with NO3 and PO4 you can run into cyano algae. So, try not to feed too heavily and don't feed too much preservative stuff like flakes and pellets. The staple of food my clowns get are Mysis shrimp every other day. Occasionally, if I'm strapped for time I'll toss in some flakes or pellets. By doing so, I've never ran into algae issues as well.

I won't overload you with info for now lol. But I also use macro algae called chaeto to help me soak up excess nutrients.

Here's what my N and P look like:

 

[Wild Bill]

When I cycled my tank,Lchi, I never got ammonia, if I remember right. , sorry, suffer from old man memory. Lol

 

[AngelTheGypsy]

Aaaahhhh...die off produces ammonia! Makes sense...

 

[DioAquatics]

Will you always have die off with live rock?

 

[Nanologist]

Will you always have die off with live rock?

In a brand new tank you can expect some but it really depends on the live rock source, how much sensitive life is on it, and how long it's out of water. Usually good live rock from a nearby LFS won't produce a noticeable amount though, but you can expect more if ordering online.

*Edit - I should add, this is because there's usually plenty of beneficial bacteria living in it to convert the ammonia to nitrate right away

 

[KristaD]

Yay, 2 weeks away and I missed exciting news. Love it!

 

[DioAquatics]

In a brand new tank you can expect some but it really depends on the live rock source, how much sensitive life is on it, and how long it's out of water. Usually good live rock from a nearby LFS won't produce a noticeable amount though, but you can expect more if ordering online.

*Edit - I should add, this is because there's usually plenty of beneficial bacteria living in it to convert the ammonia to nitrate right away

Thanks! This sw stuff is interesting lol

 

[Lchi87]

So just learned that clowns are born gender neutral and can change sexes?!

Mind.Blown.

Surely this is old news to the salty folks here but thought I’d share for the sake of the freshwater gang too...

So two juvie clowns usually will pair up and become M/F but this does not guarantee that they will breed from my understanding.

Fascinating stuff, this sw business lol.

 

[grantm91]

You want to see how they live in a hareem, check out the clown part from blue planet 2, it’s absolutely amazing how they all work together in a hierarchy, led by the queen then her male and then the rest of the squad, I tell you fw just went stale for me, still got love for my parrots and a select few, but the sw world man, mind blowing, absolutely, I just read and read every night in bed to make myself tired, it just leads on to stuff, from coral to paly toxin, to poloution, you end up reading all sorts did you know botox is the most toxic substance known

 

[Culprit]

Yeah that was really cool when I learned! Harems are amazing. I've always wanted one it would be so cool haha

 

[JLeeM]

So just learned that clowns are born gender neutral and can change sexes?!

Mind.Blown.

Surely this is old news to the salty folks here but thought I’d share for the sake of the freshwater gang too...

So two juvie clowns usually will pair up and become M/F but this does not guarantee that they will breed from my understanding.

Fascinating stuff, this sw business lol.

That blew my mind too!!!

 

[Lchi87]

You want to see how they live in a hareem, check out the clown part from blue planet 2, it’s absolutely amazing how they all work together in a hierarchy, led by the queen then her male and then the rest of the squad, I tell you fw just went stale for me, still got love for my parrots and a select few, but the sw world man, mind blowing, absolutely, I just read and read every night in bed to make myself tired, it just leads on to stuff, from coral to paly toxin, to poloution, you end up reading all sorts did you know botox is the most toxic substance known

Definitely watching that asap! I fell asleep last night reading about clowns in case you couldn’t tell haha!

Yeah that was really cool when I learned! Harems are amazing. I've always wanted one it would be so cool haha

And here I am staring at my fw 40b wondering if a harem of clownfish would fit in there... maybe when I move...

 

[stella1979]

You should check out Melev's Reef on Youtube Lchi. He doesn't feature it a whole lot, but he has a beautiful cube, probably a 60g? Not sure, but it's only inhabitants are huge anemones and a happy harem. It's awesome! Such a shame that the MTS costs so much more on the salty side. I'd like to have a reef tank, (check ), as well as a clown/nem tank. And if that weren't enough, I don't know what they call it, but I want a tank that represent the shallows. It would have to have grasses, a mangrove, and a deep sand bed because I'd want garden eels. Check those guys out too!

 

[Fashooga]

Very nice build. Saltwater is really a different game. It’s like Freshwater is baseball and Saltwater is cricket...

 

[tyguy7760]

Speaking of mangroves...I just ordered some for my 40b fw tank. Heard they are excellent at nitrate removal

 

[Lchi87]

You should check out Melev's Reef on Youtube Lchi. He doesn't feature it a whole lot, but he has a beautiful cube, probably a 60g? Not sure, but it's only inhabitants are huge anemones and a happy harem. It's awesome! Such a shame that the MTS costs so much more on the salty side. I'd like to have a reef tank, (check ), as well as a clown/nem tank. And if that weren't enough, I don't know what they call it, but I want a tank that represent the shallows. It would have to have grasses, a mangrove, and a deep sand bed because I'd want garden eels. Check those guys out too!

Holy cow, they were huge!! I’d love to be able to have a similar setup one day. Funnily enough I was watching another of his videos last night about taking his reef apart and I didn’t realize we watch the same guy! I’ve heard of those mangrove tanks, it definitely sounds like an interesting project!!

Speaking of mangroves...I just ordered some for my 40b fw tank. Heard they are excellent at nitrate removal

Oooohh really? If you share photos, can you tag me? I’d love to see what you do with them!

 

[cadd]

Why is it important to keep nitrates down in a Saltwater system? For FW, I've seen my nitrates get as high as 20 or more.

 

[Lchi87]

Why is it important to keep nitrates down in a Saltwater system? For FW, I've seen my nitrates get as high as 20 or more.

I’m guessing the stock are more sensitive to nitrates? I’d wait for an expert though lol.

 

[aussieJJDude]

Subbing - been watching this with interest for the past few days.... this ultimately lead me to join the site so I can sub and get regular updates.

Have you seen the latest craze of doing an planted marine tank...? Those are so pretty!

 

[AngelTheGypsy]

I wouldn’t put it past LchI to find some saltwater seaweed plants.... I so would love to see that!

 

[aussieJJDude]

I wouldn’t put it past LchI to find some saltwater seaweed plants.... I so would love to see that!

Not only that, but keeping a display of macro algae and such. They beautiful tanks!

 

[Culprit]

Yes, saltwater inhabitants are more sensitive to nitrates. However, just the fish aren't as much. In a FOWLR its just fine for nitrates to be lower then 20. Its the corals that are sensitive to parameters. That's why we stock our tanks so lightly.

I hadn't heard that mangroves were great nitrate removers. They grow so slowly I figured they were just for looks. I'll have to look that up. What we use to export nitrates aside from water changes, is chaeto and deep sand beds. Usually, DSBs are only when you have a sump, and you just put a portion aside for the sand to be really deep in. What happens with a DSB is anaerobic bacteria grows which eats nitrates and converts them to gas. Chaeto is a macro algae. Chaeto is what a lot of us use, stella1979 and I use an aquaclear which we've modded so we can put it in there. Then we just put a little grow light on it. grantm91 is building a DIY cheato reactor, which will export nutrients like nobodies buisness. Chaeto also exports phosphates which is one of the main algae causers in SW

 

[aussieJJDude]

Culprit, reading up on the matter a few times - love learning all things salty... but never kept myself -, it seems once the mangrove has established in the tank and has grown an extensive root system they make great nutrient export. However, the small 'pods' and such don't do much, but after a couple of years they meant to be as effective as cheato and DSB.

 

[tyguy7760]

Yes, saltwater inhabitants are more sensitive to nitrates. However, just the fish aren't as much. In a FOWLR its just fine for nitrates to be lower then 20. Its the corals that are sensitive to parameters. That's why we stock our tanks so lightly.

I hadn't heard that mangroves were great nitrate removers. They grow so slowly I figured they were just for looks. I'll have to look that up. What we use to export nitrates aside from water changes, is chaeto and deep sand beds. Usually, DSBs are only when you have a sump, and you just put a portion aside for the sand to be really deep in. What happens with a DSB is anaerobic bacteria grows which eats nitrates and converts them to gas. Chaeto is a macro algae. Chaeto is what a lot of us use, stella1979 and I use an aquaclear which we've modded so we can put it in there. Then we just put a little grow light on it. grantm91 is building a DIY cheato reactor, which will export nutrients like nobodies buisness. Chaeto also exports phosphates which is one of the main algae causers in SW

I think chaeto is still the go to for nitrate removal for salty fish folks. But us freshwater folks don't have that option. Land plants like chinese evergreen and pothos are options but they are limiting because you need to either plant them in an HOB or sump as the leaves cannot be submerged. Mangroves are the same way but their stems are long enough that you can still plant them in the substrate of your tank and the leaves will be just above the water line. We'll see how they go. THere isn't a ton of info out there on them especially on the freshwater side, but there are a few people in a fish facebook group I'm on that were talking about how well they do. One guy keeps them in a discus/ram tank and claims they keep his water nearly nitrate free. So we'll see how they do for me.

 

[Dave125g]

Fallowing. I'm not really into SW, but because its you Lchi87 I'm curious. This may be bad for my MTS but oh well. Lol

 

[Nart]

Well if ya'll Freshwater peeps decide to jump over to SW.... I can write a more updated guide for Freshwater folks and how to transition into Saltwater and what you'll need.
I can write up two guides, one for a budget build and one for the more fancier taste.

 

[Culprit]

Trust me dave, once you see some of this stuff and read it you'll be coming over to the dark side hahaha. Trust me, its what I did. I was just reading through FL looking for threads, and saw grants and narts thread and subbed and it was the worst hting i've ever done haha. now I've got a reef tank (partially haha) with fish and just put my first coral in a few days ago!

 

[Culprit]

Nart that would be amazing! Not only for already established reefers, but also even beginning reefers like me. You do so much research and have so much knowledge you should totally write a guide. Also, it seems like we're finally getting a lootttt of interest in the Saltwater side of things