Epistylis or Ich?

[SteelersChris]

I have a 54g tank that is newly set up, planted pretty heavily. The snakeskin barbs that I assume to be wild caught were purchased from petco online, and appear to have what looks like Epistylis.

I’m not positive if it is that or ich but the raised bumps look like it more than ich from the online photos I’m seeing.

From what I’m reading it is treatable and less lethal than a ich. But since I’m not positive which one it is I’m going to treat for both.

Epistylis seems to be recommended to be treated by lowering temp and feeding medicated food (antibacterial) and reduce feedings. Ich you’d want to raise the temperature and treat with an anti parasitic like ich x. Could also add salt in both situations but that tank is heavily planted.

This is a new tank and the barbs seem to be the only ones that have it so far. Since I’m not positive which it is I think I’m going to keep water temp the same as normal (77-78F), feed medicated food sparingly(kanaplex), treat with Ich X and do frequent water changes.

If anyone has experience dealing with this disease or has better advice in very open to other strategies. Thank you!

 

[Fishfur]

Looks more like Ich to me but the treatment for both Epi & Ich is the same up to a point,

No need to raise temperature for Ich unless tank temp is less than 75-76F. The life cycle is already as fast as it can be at those temperatures and bear in mind, the formalin in Ich X etc., becomes more toxic as water temperature rises. No point in making it any more toxic than it has to be.

Ich X or Rid Ich plus will work on both - they kill protozoans & epistylis & Ich are protozoans.

A few epistylis aren’t a big deal but a lot of them tend to be worse than Ich because they are so often accompanied by bacterial infection. The epistylis eat bacteria so for them, infection is a good supply.

Antibiotics in the food are usually needed IF it is epistylis but this looks like Ich to me.

 

[fishywoo]

Epistylis shows up as a pattern and ich is like sprinkled salt if I remember right. I'm sorry if I remembered wrong. I had a beautiful black butterfly telescope, Nyx, for about a week that got epistylis. I turned up the heat thinking ich and I think that's what doomed her. =( Was my first and only butterfly too.

 

[Deathstar31]

Looks more like Ich to me but the treatment for both Epi & Ich is the same up to a point,

No need to raise temperature for Ich unless tank temp is less than 75-76F. The life cycle is already as fast as it can be at those temperatures and bear in mind, the formalin in Ich X etc., becomes more toxic as water temperature rises. No point in making it any more toxic than it has to be.

Ich X or Rid Ich plus will work on both - they kill protozoans & epistylis & Ich are protozoans.

A few epistylis aren’t a big deal but a lot of them tend to be worse than Ich because they are so often accompanied by bacterial infection. The epistylis eat bacteria so for them, infection is a good supply.

Antibiotics in the food are usually needed IF it is epistylis but this looks like Ich to me.

I hate to type it, but it does look like ich. Sorry.

 

[SteelersChris]

I thought it looked like ich first too, but then as it progressed they are pretty large and I always thought ich was flat and didn’t raise into large beads. ‍♂️

Temp was brought back to 78 F, first dose of Ich X was done, as well as kanaplex. I did a heavy water change just before, have extra airation going and am hoping for the best. Out of a dozen snakeskin barbs I’m down to 3. Lost 1 the first day, 3 yesterday and 3 today. All of the other fish are alive and only the loaches are starting to show signs of the parasite. There’s 4 pearl gourami, 5 zebra loach, 5 glass catfish and 3 panda garra.

 

[SteelersChris]

This tank was hit hard and we lost 11 snakeskin barbs, 2 zebra loach, a panda garra and 5 glass catfish.

Remaining stock is 4 pearl gourami, 1 snakeskin barb, 2 zebra loach, 2 panda garra.

The tank has made a comeback and we haven’t lost any fish in about a week. Petco sent 6 replacement snakeskin barbs that are quarantining and medicated. They’re not eating, so hopefully they will end up being alright and I can add them to the tank after QT.

I ended up moving the harliquin Rasbora to the 54g corner planted tank and they absolutely love it. It’s only been 17 hours and they are already breeding (2 years in their last tank with no breeding so I’m thinking this tank should be making a comeback).

The plan for restocking is to add 3 more snakeskin barbs from a local pet store in Oakland that seems to have really good Reviews so hopefully their barbs don’t have the same health issues as the ones I got from petco (assuming the ones in QT don’t die), 1 more zebra loach and one more panda garra bringing the total stock to:

4 pearl gourami
9 snakeskin barbs
9 harlequin rasbora
3 zebra loach
3 panda garra
Dozens of ramshorn and bladder snails

Found a second snakeskin barb! He must have been hiding behind the log.

 

[GlennO]

Hi, sorry to hear about your losses, Hopefully that's the end of it. Do you think it was Ich? Usually if you get onto Ich quickly with the right meds like you did the outcome is not that bad. Maybe it was epitstylis after all?

 

[SteelersChris]

The other members here thought it was Ich based off of the pictures and the uniformity of the white spots, while my girlfriend and I thought it was epistylis due to the raised nature of the parasite and some of them looking cottony. It’s hard to tell the difference so I treated for both.

The new snakeskin barbs are still doing well in their quarantine and there was actually 2 left in the tank so there will be 7 when I unite them in the display tank and will get a few more on Tuesday from what’s hopefully a better source and not just another store selling the same stock from the same fish farm.

 

[SteelersChris]

The new barbs hadn’t been eating and it was day 4. So as I posted in another thread about a tank build, I decided to purchase a $15 10g tank from petsmart to see if a change of sentry could help or at least provide a better long term quarantine for me than having a 27g tote on my kitchen doors for a month.

I ended up adding gravel, a fake plant, rocks, water lettuce, HOB filter with seeded media and seeded gravel.

They were still skiddish and hid among the decor and still were not eating.

I’m Happy to report that last night I noticed 2 of them swimming about the upper column of the tank, and this morning they were schooling back and forth across the bottom of the tank (still the bottom but it’s a start). Counting the 2 that survived from the initial bout with illness this brings the school to 7. I’d still like to get the school to 12-13, so I’ll be checking bay bridge aquatics in Oakland tomorrow while I’m a trip to pick up my girlfriend’s daughter at the SF airport.

If they look healthy we have a bucket of dechlorinated water with an air stone and heater ready to go. Also looking for 1 zebra poach and 1 panda garra to replace lost stock from this tank, and my GF is setting up a 45g tank at her house and will be looking for platinum angels, an electric blue, a shoal of corydora and a school of medium sized tetra. Shes also looking for chili Rasbora for her son’s 10g. Here’s to hoping these continue to do well in their quarantine and to a fun fish shopping trip!

 

[SteelersChris]

Well, it’s been 3 weeks since the 54 had visible ich or epistylis, and I quarantined the new barbs before putting them in the display tank…. I got home this afternoon and noticed what looks to be ich or epistylis back in this tank. I’m only seeing it on the snakeskin barbs and nothing else.

Do I start dosing the whole tank with ich X again? Do I pull the fish showing symptoms only and treat them in a quarantine tank?

 

[SteelersChris]

Dosed ich x. Day 2 and no deaths so far

 

[SteelersChris]

Day 5 with no kisses thankfully! I did my daily dose of ich x and a 1/3 water change. Today the white spots are barely even noticeable. I’ll continue the regiment for another week to make sure it’s truly gone.

 

[Fishfur]

Day 5 with no kisses thankfully! I did my daily dose of ich x and a 1/3 water change. Today the white spots are barely even noticeable. I’ll continue the regiment for another week to make sure it’s truly gone.

No kisses for 5 days & that’s a good thing? I at least get kitty kisses every day -.

Keep treating until 7 days have passed without any sighting of a spot on any fish because it is far better to treat for a few days more than for one day too few.

 

[SteelersChris]

No kisses for 5 days & that’s a good thing? I at least get kitty kisses every day -.

Keep treating until 7 days have passed without any sighting of a spot on any fish because it is far better to treat for a few days more than for one day too few.

I seriously hate spell check when on my phone…. My fingers aren’t even that big but I find myself fat fingering all the time and constantly going back to edit.

NO LOSSES! Haha.

 

[Fishfur]

I seriously hate spell check when on my phone…. My fingers aren’t even that big but I find myself fat fingering all the time and constantly going back to edit.

NO LOSSES! Haha.

I figured as much but it was too funny a typo to let pass!

 

[SteelersChris]

Still no LOSSES (looking at you fishfur lol)…

I do not see any spots on any of the fish today. Documenting here for reference and will continue Ich X and 1/3 water changes until next Monday.

 

[SteelersChris]

Still no losses =). Have been doing ich x and 1/3 water changes every day and continuing until Monday. Will give it a week or two and have an hillstreme loach in a 10 temporarily that will be moved here soon. Can hardly wait!

 

[70iselin]

Glad all is finally going good

 

[SteelersChris]

Day for without dosing meds and still no losses or visible resurgence . Pretty sure we’re in the clear!