Electric Blue Ram Breeding Advice

I just found Denise in a Facebook group lol.

I don’t like that Facebook group, people try to challenge me all the time

Also, that makes more sense about the black gene.

 

I just found Denise in a Facebook group lol.

I don’t like that Facebook group, people try to challenge me all the time

Also, that makes more sense about the black gene.

haha, yes that was a link Marco gave me as he'd explained on there about the black gene! I've put him in touch with someone who I get my Black Rams from in the UK. Hopefully we can get his fish to the UK. I am tempted to do it myself if they aren't interested.. it does involve a lot of paperwork but doesn't everything these days!

 

My Electric Blue Rams that are still with the dad are growing exponentially fast. They are now bigger than some of my fry born before them, the difference was they did not have a parent. Crazy. These were born January 21. They will not sit still, but they’re coloring up too.

 

Wow they have grown quickly! I love it when they start to show colour, its so interesting to see how they will turn out. Mine are what I would call "shop size" now which is the size I see when I go into most LFS. I want them a bit bigger though so am keeping them for now

 

So, I put some of my first lot of Juvies in a grow out tank and this happened, there isn't a light in this tank so its a bit dull but you can see the eggs. I upended a flower pot and put this on top, they like the height!

Juvies Spawned

• DeniseF
• Apr 4, 2019

 

A couple content looking Lannisters! Nice. After much ram threading I've finally set up a dedicated breeding tank to have a crack at it myself. Its cycled and pretty much ready to go, and although odds are not great with parent-raised fry I'm trying to follow the Aquatilibus tank template and have more or less replicated those basics. I just need some more rams, one of my favourite problems. Being in Cape Town I'm hoping to get some of Marco du Toit's fish, although I've had some luck with some good local stock in the past.
Always enjoy checking in on this and other threads!

 

A couple content looking Lannisters! Nice. After much ram threading I've finally set up a dedicated breeding tank to have a crack at it myself. Its cycled and pretty much ready to go, and although odds are not great with parent-raised fry I'm trying to follow the Aquatilibus tank template and have more or less replicated those basics. I just need some more rams, one of my favourite problems. Being in Cape Town I'm hoping to get some of Marco du Toit's fish, although I've had some luck with some good local stock in the past.
Always enjoy checking in on this and other threads!

haha, well for any GoT lovers we don't have long to wait! Good luck on the rams, you'll be starting your own thread soon

 

haha, well for any GoT lovers we don't have long to wait! Good luck on the rams, you'll be starting your own thread soon

Winter is coming indeed (at last)! And thanks, I think I'll start a thread a while after the inevitable tribulations I'll face

I was watching some coralbandit fishroom YouTube vids - I was wondering whether having side by side 5/10 gallon tanks, with the breeding pairs visible to one another, might not add stress on them (and then lead to eating eggs/ fry, etc)?
I ask as I have space beside my breeder tank for another the same size, for my next phase of crazy, and figured no line of sight would put them at greater ease in general? I'll be relying on natural light in the room (adjustable with blinds) although this breeder tank does have a suspended dedicated light above it as well.

 

Re tanks next to each other, I'm just setting that up myself, I don't think its much of an issue unless you find 2 males going at it, I've had to separate a tank with 2 pairs in due to that.. ITs pretty easy to solve if you have separate tanks though by just putting something between the tanks to remove that line of sight. Natural light is ok in general, except if you want to inspect the fry closely.. its very difficult to do a close up look for issues and do things like clean out the bottom of the tank while missing fry without a light. I got mine of ebay - a small one shouldnt set you back too much. I think the one I got originated from China and cost me £30. There are obviously more expensive ones but I found this one was good enough.

 

Re tanks next to each other, I'm just setting that up myself, I don't think its much of an issue unless you find 2 males going at it, I've had to separate a tank with 2 pairs in due to that.. ITs pretty easy to solve if you have separate tanks though by just putting something between the tanks to remove that line of sight. Natural light is ok in general, except if you want to inspect the fry closely.. its very difficult to do a close up look for issues and do things like clean out the bottom of the tank while missing fry without a light. I got mine of ebay - a small one shouldnt set you back too much. I think the one I got originated from China and cost me £30. There are obviously more expensive ones but I found this one was good enough.

I'll probably see how it all shake out I guess, for now it'll just be the single tank. The light I mention is one of those clip on aquarium lights, cost about £22 equivalent (actually looks pretty good too), and so won't just be natural light, but in reference to Aquatilibus setup I've made sure that I can alternate between natural and dedicated lighting as needed, assuming I get some fry in the near future. I've got a nice piece of wood in there and bought it really just to make things look good for now haha. Have a half dozen white cloud minnows in the tank temporarily as well.

 

I'll probably see how it all shake out I guess, for now it'll just be the single tank. The light I mention is one of those clip on aquarium lights, cost about £22 equivalent (actually looks pretty good too), and so won't just be natural light, but in reference to Aquatilibus setup I've made sure that I can alternate between natural and dedicated lighting as needed, assuming I get some fry in the near future. I've got a nice piece of wood in there and bought it really just to make things look good for now haha. Have a half dozen white cloud minnows in the tank temporarily as well.

Ahh sorry I got you, yes that would work, its really I've literally gone cross eyed trying to see fry haha. I've got two GBR pairs and both parent their fry, its the EBR that seem a lot worse! Having said that they both have not been perfect, one was eating her fry at 3 weeks when she was ready to spawn again so had to pull them all out and the others were so busy squabbling with each other they forgot to care for their fry and so the fry - while still in the tank - are all over the tank and hard to feed BBS because of that. lol

 

Ahh sorry I got you, yes that would work, its really I've literally gone cross eyed trying to see fry haha. I've got two GBR pairs and both parent their fry, its the EBR that seem a lot worse! Having said that they both have not been perfect, one was eating her fry at 3 weeks when she was ready to spawn again so had to pull them all out and the others were so busy squabbling with each other they forgot to care for their fry and so the fry - while still in the tank - are all over the tank and hard to feed BBS because of that. lol

I think I saw yeah - so is 3 weeks as far along as you've gotten with parent raised fry? And I guess the more selectively bred for colour variants the less 'pure' - GBR often seem to do best in my reading. Theory makes sense given how fragile the Dark Knight / black rams are proving, and I suppose it takes time for strong lines to develop. The tank I set up is a 7.5 gallon so it'll just be a single pair I put in there, with as little distraction as possible. Maybe a 10 gallon beside it later on.

I have a nice young female GBR in my main community tank that I might put into the breeder with a sharp young stag if I come across a good specimen. Ideally though, some new rams from Marco's lab, and I'll perhaps add another male to the community tank to keep her company. My huge pair of EBR, double her size at least, are like a different cichlid species entirely! The male of this pair keeps flaring his fins to his mate but she's not laid eggs in some time. I think they're just a bit old now, certainly fully grown.

 

Winter is coming indeed (at last)! And thanks, I think I'll start a thread a while after the inevitable tribulations I'll face

I was watching some coralbandit fishroom YouTube vids - I was wondering whether having side by side 5/10 gallon tanks, with the breeding pairs visible to one another, might not add stress on them (and then lead to eating eggs/ fry, etc)?
I ask as I have space beside my breeder tank for another the same size, for my next phase of crazy, and figured no line of sight would put them at greater ease in general? I'll be relying on natural light in the room (adjustable with blinds) although this breeder tank does have a suspended dedicated light above it as well.

Possibly window film on the side panels to fuzz out the 'intruding' fish and still allow light thru?

 

Possibly window film on the side panels to fuzz out the 'intruding' fish and still allow light thru?

Exactly my thinking - I recently applied some to a door in my apartment last week and have some left over - it also has the benefit of creating a nice diffused light.

 

Exactly my thinking - I recently applied some to a door in my apartment last week and have some left over - it also has the benefit of creating a nice diffused light.

You know sometimes I wonder if breeding pairs being able to see eachother strengthens the bond to protect the fry. Ime, my angels seem to understand the glass barriers, but I've often wondered if I should fuzz out the side panels as well. Good thought anyway.

 

Cale24 ive had good luck leaving just the male in there, if the both parents idea fails.

 

Cale24 ive had good luck leaving just the male in there, if the both parents idea fails.

yes all my experience of fry/spawn destruction has been the female every time.

 

I keep a separator in between all pairs that are side by side .It is usually solid white plastic that goes from bottom to just over 1/2 up the tank and the full length .
They can tend to eggs and nest with no interference but if they are just hanging at top or feeding they see the others .I think it adds to the pairs bond and it is pairs with other pairs next to them that have raised fry with me this year . The pairs ate fry later [different batch] so who knows what the fish think ?

 

On that note, my Juvies have eaten their eggs! Ahh well there's always a next time.

 

AquaticJ Cool will consider that - I guess it'll also depend on the fish I end up with - some rams are just crazy, others careless, others hyper aggressive.
I find it quite interesting just how much they can vary in their personalities, having had a number of them over the years.

angelcraze Hmmm, good point? I last had spawning angels in high school, two males and a female, and inside the tank- around the eggs that were laid- I put a thin piece of translucent blue plastic, a sort of improvised protection.
The angel behind it could see out, but the male on the other side that wandered over to this territory couldn't see in, I guess due to the subtle light differences. So the guy inside would be flaring up going mad while the outer guy was unaware.
It was pretty funny to watch, but can't actually remember if it helped much. I have three nice medium sized angels in my main tank, but unsure if male or female yet. Could all be male, but hoping one is a female.
For now though, its time for more rams.

coralbandit Interesting, I might try that too. Have some thin ABS sheet plastic on hand so will see. That fishroom tour that was taken at your place (can't remember host's name off hand)- amazing! All those electric blues look so cool together in big numbers.
My girlfriend became 'worried' at my excitement when I showed her- no fish room on the cards for me just yet

My large EBR, that my LFS got from Israel, are raised in large reservoirs and so reach a larger size than normal it seems. Downside of course means you're buying full grown rams and so their lifespan is shorter. Some pics below I found online of their setup. We can dream.

 

I keep a separator in between all pairs that are side by side .It is usually solid white plastic that goes from bottom to just over 1/2 up the tank and the full length .
They can tend to eggs and nest with no interference but if they are just hanging at top or feeding they see the others .I think it adds to the pairs bond and it is pairs with other pairs next to them that have raised fry with me this year . The pairs ate fry later [different batch] so who knows what the fish think ?

Lol, my angels raised their babies too when they can see eachother. And not actually. So yea, who knows what they think? I never left the eggs with my rams because I wanted the babies too badly, I will get back into breeding rams again one day.

I have a question though for all who keep and breed rams for years. What is the average lifespan for GBR? Is there a difference between EBR for lifespan? There's too much controversy online and I only had my EBRs for 2.5 years tops, all of them!

 

GBR should live 2-4 years
So in theory all the color variations should also ?
I think the EBR are more fragile but have had pairs last 3 years with 2 being the norm still ?
The blacks I got 'freshly imported ' I will guess no more then 6 months old did not last 8 months with me ?
I am new to golds and mine have come from the blacks but I am hopeful as they look to be some of the healthiest appearing I have seen physically .

 

GBR should live 2-4 years
So in theory all the color variations should also ?
I think the EBR are more fragile but have had pairs last 3 years with 2 being the norm still ?
The blacks I got 'freshly imported ' I will guess no more then 6 months old did not last 8 months with me ?
I am new to golds and mine have come from the blacks but I am hopeful as they look to be some of the healthiest appearing I have seen physically .

My oldest EBR are two now, but their eggs haven't been viable for the last few spawns so not sure if that just means they are now conisdered geriatric lol . They are now living in the lap of luxury in my big display tank!

 

One of my LFS staff says 'You only lease rams, really' - quite annoying! I'd be chuffed to have one live more than 2 years.

 

One of my LFS staff says 'You only lease rams, really' - quite annoying! I'd be chuffed to have one live more than 2 years.

Sounds like you can only lease THEIR Rams lol

 

One of my LFS staff says 'You only lease rams, really' - quite annoying! I'd be chuffed to have one live more than 2 years.

Sounds like you can only lease THEIR Rams lol

Both comments strike me funny because when I sold and installed copper roofs I used to tell the customer ; " You may have paid for it ,but it is still my roof !"
Not thinking that is what they are implying though !
I never thought of leasing but I once thought of fish insurance for my fish !

 

Well looks like I am about to lose the female ram that got sucked up in the syphon I think there must have been something going on there afterwards, she was always really fearful after that and she now has bloat.. I think she stopped eating after that and its just taken a while for everything to break down. I wasn't planning on breeding from that female again anyway, now I have my baby rams at spawning age I think the quicker I get away from the asian ones the better. I had planned on giving her a lovely retirement home though so that's a shame for her.

 

Here are a few pics of my fish room project, I picked up the stands for £70, they are all NSF 362KG per shelf load. I decided I wanted quiet airlines, so have purchased a few Hidom 2 HD208 4 way pumps, plus I already have some Boyu 4 ways that are ok but a bit nosier. I am undecided on the best heating method.. individual in the tanks or heat the room, but I'm thinking I may go with the heaters at first when not all the tanks are in use. <<<Thoughts on that>>>
Also any more tips or advice appreciated!

Fish Room Project 1

• DeniseF
• Apr 9, 2019

This is the view from the door, these racks are NSF 362KG per shelf load, epoxy coated.

Fish room 2

• DeniseF
• Apr 9, 2019

The larger tanks are 30 in L x 12 in W x 18 in H all these tanks cost me £120 TOTAL!

Fish Room 3

• DeniseF
• Apr 9, 2019

These tanks are all 18 in L x 12 in W x 18 in H. They have a section at the back to fit a small...

 

I like having heaters in ram tanks even though the room stays close to proper temp ?
The heaters don't have to work real hard but are still important .
I love watching fish rooms come together !

 

Oh wow that’s gunna look amazing once it’s all set up. I keep so many different species that I can't just heat the room unfortunately.

 

I like having heaters in ram tanks even though the room stays close to proper temp ?
The heaters don't have to work real hard but are still important .
I love watching fish rooms come together !

I love watching that too! Especially when it’s mine .

Think I’m going to go with heaters it’s a safety net really. That’s a cost I can’t avoid but since I have saved a lot elsewhere that’s ok.

I’m also looking at ceramic tiles for the tank bottom, I can get a nice grey slate effect tile for around £10 for 6 large tiles 1.5 needed per large tank and 1 per small. So still bare bottom but better than a grill visible under the tank from the stands. Still need to see how the stands hold up to a full tank first, otherwise we may have to put wood underneath.

I have more space for small fry tanks which I will most likely have to buy new, unless another huge bargain job lot surfaces.

Sent off my Animal import and transport applications today so should get that in 15 days! I’ll need to ensure my filtration is all cycled then I can get my fishies.

 

Here are a few pics of my fish room project, I picked up the stands for £70, they are all NSF 362KG per shelf load. I decided I wanted quiet airlines, so have purchased a few Hidom 2 HD208 4 way pumps, plus I already have some Boyu 4 ways that are ok but a bit nosier. I am undecided on the best heating method.. individual in the tanks or heat the room, but I'm thinking I may go with the heaters at first when not all the tanks are in use. <<<Thoughts on that>>>
Also any more tips or advice appreciated!

Fish Room Project 1

• DeniseF
• Apr 9, 2019

This is the view from the door, these racks are NSF 362KG per shelf load, epoxy coated.

Fish room 2

• DeniseF
• Apr 9, 2019

The larger tanks are 30 in L x 12 in W x 18 in H all these tanks cost me £120 TOTAL!

Fish Room 3

• DeniseF
• Apr 9, 2019

These tanks are all 18 in L x 12 in W x 18 in H. They have a section at the back to fit a small...

Wow, nice to see things moving along pretty quickly!
That grille style stainless steel will allow you to hang and attach all sorts of things as needed and will probably end up working well I'd imagine.
Would definitely recommend having some something solid beneath the tanks (essentially adding 'planks' on top of the grilles). Material wise, you could even look at some strong composites, or something that caters to the kitchen industry, etc?
Plastics/ composites companies usually have good rates if you go direct and will often cut to size and deliver as needed.

Good luck!

 

Wow, nice to see things moving along pretty quickly!
That grille style stainless steel will allow you to hang and attach all sorts of things as needed and will probably end up working well I'd imagine.
Would definitely recommend having some something solid beneath the tanks (essentially adding 'planks' on top of the grilles). Material wise, you could even look at some strong composites, or something that caters to the kitchen industry, etc?
Plastics/ composites companies usually have good rates if you go direct and will often cut to size and deliver as needed.

Good luck!

yeah still a work in progress on the base, I did originally have some other stands but they were not strong enough, you can stand on these and they won't bend! I tried some wood on the other ones and they still bent! Even with the tanks empty. I haven't filled them yet so we are going to trial one shelf on each stand to see what happens..
The problem with the planks thus far is that the edge part of the shelves is a few mm higher than the middle, so it actually causes more of a problem that its solving at the moment.

I've already got some hooks that work with the stand as I had some gridwall fittings for when I used to do shows for my Equestrian business. I put my nets on there!

Today we've been to the tile shop and bought some slate effect clay tiles for the base.. it looks better than bare glass and yet has the same benefit. We're going to silicone in the fry tanks as the tiny gaps that are around the edge are almost guaranteed death traps!

Its all very exciting!

 

I love watching that too! Especially when it’s mine .

Think I’m going to go with heaters it’s a safety net really. That’s a cost I can’t avoid but since I have saved a lot elsewhere that’s ok.

I’m also looking at ceramic tiles for the tank bottom, I can get a nice grey slate effect tile for around £10 for 6 large tiles 1.5 needed per large tank and 1 per small. So still bare bottom but better than a grill visible under the tank from the stands. Still need to see how the stands hold up to a full tank first, otherwise we may have to put wood underneath.

I have more space for small fry tanks which I will most likely have to buy new, unless another huge bargain job lot surfaces.

Sent off my Animal import and transport applications today so should get that in 15 days! I’ll need to ensure my filtration is all cycled then I can get my fishies.

Are you trying to ship to the states? Or Europe?

I tagged you in a video on FB, does it come out blurry for you??

 

Are you trying to ship to the states? Or Europe?

I tagged you in a video on FB, does it come out blurry for you??

Hi

Not looking to ship to the USA only the UK really. I've just been authorized to transport the fish, still waiting for the import licence but have been told I will get it. Re: the video if you mean you hand feeding your rams it came out fine, not blurry at all, it was quite dark though but that could just be me. I do think if I can get it organized I will get interest in the Rams, yours are similar to mine in shape.. They are really pretty.

 

Just thought I'd share something.. probably you all know anyway, but still I put some Oxytetracycline in my tank when the female ram was sick (didn't survive) but incidentally it cleared up all the algae including some that I actually wanted (the moss ball style) but still it did a thorough job!

 

Update on the Oxytetracycline - I have a tank with a pair that are parenting their fry, most of the fry died due to the parents unable to keep them in a shoal, but there are about 30 left that they are raising. However, early on they each had half of the surviving fry in a little group and basically fought each other - in the process the male had an injury at the base of his pectoral fin and his tail and the female has a couple of bites on her side.

So, since I have to treat the injuries anyway, I decided to use the Oxytetracycline in that tank - I have done a lesser dose on it because of the fry - and have taken some "before" pics of the algae - its unsightly black hair algae mostly - so we will see if that works.. will update the page on the findings!

 

So it is often seen that erythromycin kills cyanno which is actually bacteria and not algae although it does posses some photosynthesis behavior also .Cyanno is not always red. It takes many colors most often a dark green that looks black ! I learned about this stuff in my marine experiences . MILLIONS of years old possibly one of the first forms of life ! In marine more slimy in Freshwater hairy[but slimy hair ]...
I have used a product called 'Red slime ' remover [now available in blue/green and a 'chemI clean' ] product to kill nuisance algae/ cyanno . I know the whole claim behind my Boyds products was they did not contain emycin ?
Because of the PP I always have H202 and some glutaraldehyde around to wack algae also .
I wonder about glut having a bacterial sterilizing benefit for breeders ?

 

So, an update on my fish room! Well I couldnt resist it, the people who I bought the first pallet of tanks on had some more of the smaller ones with the inbuilt filters, I drove up there in my jeep and said to them I will have as many as you can fit in the car! Came home with a further 8 tanks!! I can't put them all up yet but I'm thinking of the future here

Thoughts wise, these tanks will be relatively newly cycled, so.. adding 100 fish is going to be a challenge without causing ammonia spikes and killing all my expensive stock!. I do have at the moment 150 - 4.5month rams, 150 - 2 month and 150 1 month. Would the best option be to cycle the tanks, then gradually add an even number of fish slowly into each of the larger tanks, so I have fish in every tank widely spread. I don't want to ultimately mix these fish with any of mine so would remove any existing fish from a tank before adding them, but I really want to do this right.

How would you guys do this to ensure minimal risk to the new fish?
What about the temperature, so when I got some fish from the UK shipped their temp had gone down to 68F, is it better to have a tank at a lower temp and raise it with the fish in, or acclimatise them to the tank temp then release them into that tank. I have all my tanks set at 82F now it seems quite a jump should the air transport mean they did go down to 68F?
I really need to get this right so any help would be appreciated.

 

Hate to say cycle matters little to me ..
Get sponges going in any/every cycled tank and they might be able to be moved .
I just do extra water changes along with having all tanks running .
When I have a tank fishless I still keep it up and running often not cleaning it after I pull the fish until it is ready to be stocked .
I would think getting them back to 82 is more important then time ? They cooled down in shipping for time frame ?