Discus Gang Updates

[86 ssinit]

Well this morn they’ve been moved into the 29 and are swimming all over. The parents are chasing them and trying to put them back where they started. They are not attaching.

Not sure what the next step is but I ordered some bbs eggs and will start them as soon as I get them. But that probably won’t be for a day or 2.

 

[jake37]

How did the parents react to being moved to the 29 ?

Well this morn they’ve been moved into the 29 and are swimming all over. The parents are chasing them and trying to put them back where they started. They are not attaching.

Not sure what the next step is but I ordered some bbs eggs and will start them as soon as I get them. But that probably won’t be for a day or 2.

 

[86 ssinit]

Well I got to say it did not go well but they adjusted quickly. Once they found the fry it was like they never moved. Next there’s something on the males fins. At first I thought it was the fry but now I can see it’s not. Almost looks like worms. No clue how this happened or what my next move is. Will try and get a pic. Got to say I’m shocked at how far I’ve gotten!! Even ordered bbs eggs. So that will be new grow them . Glad I’m out of work with nothing to do . And with all the snow where getting this has been keeping me busy.

 

[coralbandit]

Your experience moving parents with such young fry has gone much better then any of mine !
I still think you are looking at the next batch for good results ??
I have like 1 fry left !
It really is a waiting game ..

 

[86 ssinit]

Looks like I’ve got around 10 still swimming around but not attaching. I added some first bites but no idea if they eaten them. Wondering I’d I should move them into a fry tank by themselves?

 

[coralbandit]

I would just let nature takes its course and know you are better prepared for the next spawn.
With your maintenance habits they should spawn again within a week or two after the last one is gone .
I think all my fry [ that never attached ] are gone or maybe one or two are attached .
With my first 'successful' spawn very few survived [like maybe 20] and even though they grow quickly and looked too large they were eaten by the parents when the next set of eggs hatched .The newly hatched eggs turned out to be really my first success and about 50-70 attached ...

 

[86 ssinit]

Ok there’s still 10 in the 30. Do I leave the parents in the 30? Will they spawn in this tank?

 

[coralbandit]

Yes just let them be and do your water changes and treat them to good foods ..
They will be comfy and spawn again ,probably on the wood again IMO .
If you don't have the wood in there any more try a cone or upside down pot for them ..

 

[86 ssinit]

To funny I just put the wood back in and their cleaning it off already! So should I fill the tank back up?

 

[coralbandit]

To funny I just put the wood back in and their cleaning it off already! So should I fill the tank back up?

The way I see it there is little sense in doing anything for the fry in their ..
So going back to treating the pair right with more water and your stellar WC regime should work best ..They could breed as fast as 7 days from when the eggs were laid .
When my pair finally got it [last year] they were dark as all get out .Your guys got dark but not as dark as I think they will . It is easy to say anything dark will distract the fry but I think the parents are the secret for getting it right ..
I read a lot on artificially hatching and raising discus in my learning about rams ..
The first step for feeding and need for water change ability make it more tedious IMO..
Search artificial hatching by Big Tuck on SD for the whole process. He made videos I watched before I read him there . Willie and/ or Cliff have also shown how they stick egg powder/food dust sized to the side of bowl and slowly raise the water . They do that and change water multiple times a day with 6+ feedings daily. Most try to this in a bowl or a container as small as a coffee filter .Keeping the fry tight is how you get to change water and help them find the food .
In large tanks if the fry do not attach not even those guys raise fry ..
This is why I do my rams in such small tanks .It really kind of is necessary to put the food right in their face if parents won't help . Both rams and discus parents both get more comfortable controlling the fry in smaller tanks IMO ..
The difference between the effort to be successful with the parents help and without is NIGHT and DAY .
Let the pair keep trying ...

 

[86 ssinit]

Ok they did it again!

 

[coralbandit]

Fingers crossed this time ..
They want to raise fry so I think you will see them sooner then later .

 

[jake37]

That was fast - don't you still have a few free swimming frys from the first batch ?

Ok they did it again! View attachment 768401

 

[86 ssinit]

No all fry gone from the first. Think the parents ate them.
But I was able to hatch some bbs so I’m learning and should be ready next time .

 

[coralbandit]

Got eggs also !

Got this week off since storm delayed delivery of materials for our next job .
Going to help a little this time ..
I just wrapped my swiss tropical sponge that will divide the tank .


Dis regard the calendar on the freezer ..It is not June by any stretch in upstate NY.
I will install this and move everything but the pot onto the other side including the 2 sponge filters .
I will now be able to run the aquaclear 110 on the other side of sponge /divider also to help ..
I will install the sponge/divider tomorrow .
The male still seems aloof .. He is the one in the corner ..
I did probably get him POd but he still seems like a slacker .
He did get pretty dark with last fry so maybe he will come around ?
He is the Brilliant Turquoise and she is the German Wonder from Hans .

 

[86 ssinit]

How big is the tank? Can you put up a picture when it’s installed. Mine are slowly eating the eggs. It’s funny they didn’t do this last time when in the main tank.

 

[jake37]

Why do you wrap your swiss tropical sponge in ?floss? ? I mean i presume it asorbs finer debris before it hits the sponge but isn't it more effort to clean the ?floss? than the sponge ?

 

[86 ssinit]

I think it’s because the sponge is black. Fry when first swimming are looking for a dark area. The parents darken so the fry will find them. So turning the sponge white will keep the fry off it.

 

[coralbandit]

How big is the tank? Can you put up a picture when it’s installed. Mine are slowly eating the eggs. It’s funny they didn’t do this last time when in the main tank.

80 g 4x2x18 .Yea I will have time this week so I will post after it is in .I think being able to run filters full out on other side of sponge will help ..I have the Jet lift tube that comes with matten filters so I hope to incorporate it for flow to the fry side by shooting it over the top of the sponge which I think is shorter then tank so I will lower water also .I may eventually add an air stone if they attach .

Why do you wrap your swiss tropical sponge in ?floss? ? I mean i presume it asorbs finer debris before it hits the sponge but isn't it more effort to clean the ?floss? than the sponge ?

I think it’s because the sponge is black. Fry when first swimming are looking for a dark area. The parents darken so the fry will find them. So turning the sponge white will keep the fry off it.

Tom nailed it !
The fry are attracted to dark things .The tank is not painted or wrapped but up until now there have been many dark objects in the tank with parents like ; heater [ black] ,2 sponge filters [ black ] , wood [pretty dark] ,slate housing for the zebra plecos who will be on opposite side .
The white wrap will help to high light the parents who will be all that is on their side besides the pot .
The female got pretty dark last time [ a week ago like Toms] and some fry went to her .
I have had no time off this winter like in the past so I hope this extra effort will help .

 

[jmaldo]

Finger crossed for both of you. I got as far as a few wigglers. But most spawns they ate.

 

[86 ssinit]

Lol I think I’m out this time. Had 150+ Eggs last night (yes I counted) and I have nine now .
Wow Tom I thought that was a 30 long. 80s pretty big for fry. I found the 29 kind of big. Though that might have been the reason they didn’t attach. What temp is good for fry? I’m at 84.

 

[coralbandit]

Tank is at 84 .
Using the sponge the tank will be less then 2x2 when installed .
That is the same as my two spawns I raised last year .

 

[coralbandit]

Sponge with Jet lift tube installed .
Less eggs then usual and both parents seem to not have the attention I hoped ,but the female is basically tending the eggs .

 

[86 ssinit]

Nice! Ok gives me an idea . Have to see what I can find. May just put a sponge barrier in my tank with the heater and sponge filter behind it.

 

[coralbandit]

Wigglers and female getting dark despite poor photo.
The male still seems non cooperative .
He is not bugging the female so as long as he is just watching he can stay.
One sign of him causing trouble and other side of the sponge he will go .
Not a ton of fry will come from this if all goes well but I will still help out as much as I know how .
Beggars can't be choosers ..

 

[Onpots]

the difference between the effort to be successful with the parents help and without is NIGHT and DAY .

Couldn't agree more... Also check this out ... All fish from same spawn, three days free swimming, guess which one spent more time with parents. The other four, and brothers, were fed four times a day with egg yolk + sera micron mix or bbs... But nothing compares to parents love...

I have a couple in a community tank, I usually leave some of the babies with the parents so they don't have that urge to spawn again, if they survive I retrieve a few babies every other day before they are eaten by other fish in the tank. The big one is one of them...

Had 150+ Eggs last night (yes I counted) and I have nine now...

Did you leave some of the light on? If not, that may do the trick.

 

[86 ssinit]

Ok it’s 4 day latter and I’ve got more eggs. Twice as many as last time! Any ideas? Should I put something in front of them to keep them from eating them?

 

[coralbandit]

If you have something to place there it can only PO the pair at worst . It may help ?
I tried that a couple times last year but it did not help with my pair .
They eventually got it right without anything ..
The larger amount of eggs is IMO from them eating the previous eggs .
There is belief that filial cannibalism/ eating the eggs encourages stronger ,larger spawns afterwards ..

 

[jmaldo]

Last year, my pair would eat the eggs practically every spawn. I tried to put a cage around the breeding cone recommended by coralbandit using a plastic mesh. Turned out the mesh spacing was too small and they were unable to fan the eggs and they developed fungus. Here is a pic of the one I tried and also a pic of Tom's.




Good Luck!

 

[coralbandit]

My fry are free swimming today but seem to be not attaching ?
Just kind of watching . I can offer no help with this part .
Both parents are pretty dark with female being darkest but male now is closer to the fry .
I don't think he is interfering just curios /interested ?

 

[86 ssinit]

If they don’t attach will you try the bbs? Mine havnt been eaten yet and no white ones so they may be fertile.

 

[86 ssinit]

Mine ate the eggs again . Have about 20 left so I put something in front of them. Will see how this works.

 

[coralbandit]

Still no attachment .Half hearted effort from parents at best . Kids ?
I have been adding Golden pearls 50-100 micron and BBS since yesterday but I suspect this batch will not have any survivors ..
My time off has been extended to second week in March so I will keep helping them however I can .

 

[Solomonsolomon]

woooo.....

 

[86 ssinit]

Hey gang! Some sad news. An icon in the discus keeping hobby has been given some sad news. Terminal cancer. Kenny Cheung of Kenny’s discus. I’ve dealt with him and he is an outstanding guy. He’s delivered beautiful discus for many years. A rare guy who actually cared about the fish and that his customers were happy. Always answered questions about his fish or fish you already had. He will surely be missed. I’m putting up a gofundme account that’s was put up for him. I’m sure you’ve all seen these and it’s to help with the medical bills and his family. Thanks for reading and give if you can .

Help Kenny Cheung- Kenny's Discus -Cancer Expenses, organized by Discus Guy

Also would like everyone here to know that this was cleared by the moderators. I thank them for letting me put this up. It nice to try and help someone who has helped so many in this hobby.

 

[Solomonsolomon]

Tonight's pic

 

[Onpots]

Some of my 4 weeks old fry. Already eating grinded dry food a couple of times a day together with bbs.

 

[86 ssinit]

Well mine just weren’t doing it! They were just in it for the egg breakfast. So I put them back in main tank. And of corse so someone sent me a thread about artificially raising them. So I’m giving this a shot. On day 3 now and I have 30 wigglersive got them in a Tupperware and have changed the water 3 times today and am adding methylene blue at 2 drops. See how this goes . Watching a lot of videos and reading some. I’ve got powered egg yoke and baby brime shrimp hopefully hatching tomorrow so I think I’m ready.

 

[86 ssinit]

O well it’s just not working. Tupperware slipped into tank fry got sucked up into filter . Lol they laid eggs again. Went to my local store and said no but still came out with these.they are called super red!! Sold on the super!

 

[Onpots]

My breading setup consist basically on an about 800ml container for the fry with an air and water inlet that lets water flow trough a thin net into a 1.5L container with plants and again the water flows through a sponge out to the tank which has two internal filters and an external filter. The two fases makes cleaning easier as most of the dirt stays in one of the two containers and very little goes in the main tank.

Before feeding the fry I siphon the small container leaving about half of the water while they eat. I found that the fry eat much more this way as they are literally surrounded by bbs and I need to throw in very little food so the water stays cleaner.

I've been told that fry need space to develop... So my question here is: in about how many cl per Fish do you keep your fry over their development? Do you think that leaving the fry in a reduced space for too long , say more than one month, could affect their development?

 

[Solomonsolomon]

Just an update

 

[86 ssinit]

My breading setup consist basically on an about 800ml container for the fry with an air and water inlet that lets water flow trough a thin net into a 1.5L container with plants and again the water flows through a sponge out to the tank which has two internal filters and an external filter. The two fases makes cleaning easier as most of the dirt stays in one of the two containers and very little goes in the main tank.

Before feeding the fry I siphon the small container leaving about half of the water while they eat. I found that the fry eat much more this way as they are literally surrounded by bbs and I need to throw in very little food so the water stays cleaner.

I've been told that fry need space to develop... So my question here is: in about how many cl per Fish do you keep your fry over their development? Do you think that leaving the fry in a reduced space for too long , say more than one month, could affect their development?
View attachment 777965

I’d love to help you but your way ahead of me in breeding. Coralbandit is the only one on here who I know of that has actually raised discus from eggs. But his parents were involved for a lot of it. There is another site that will have more info called simply discus. This is a breeder and growers site. Only sending you there because not many here that actually breed. Would be great if you could start a thread documenting what you’ve done so far and how you do. Like your set up and just read over there of a similar set up but in smaller containers.

 

[86 ssinit]

So 1 week in and the new guys are doing good there eating and out in the open bad news is my main tank is in an outbreak of something! Not sure but I’m thinking cross contamination. The new guys are in another room with all their own stuff but somehow something got into the main tank . Now my second big tank is still fine and it’s closer to the new guys so I’m not sure what’s going on. Now for me I’m not for using medication. But desperate times!! So I’m experimenting with meds. Changing water daily adding 2 tbls of salt per 10g and adding metro. Fish look the same but no white poo and they are eating! It’s the slime coat that is showing heavy. I also bought rid-ick which is recomended by Hans and on the discu sites but I’m not sure if it can be added to what’s in there now? Wish me luck . I guess unforunatly am going to get a lesson in medicating .

 

[smalli]

So 1 week in and the new guys are doing good there eating and out in the open View attachment 779159bad news is my main tank is in an outbreak of something! Not sure but I’m thinking cross contamination. The new guys are in another room with all their own stuff but somehow something got into the main tank . Now my second big tank is still fine and it’s closer to the new guys so I’m not sure what’s going on. View attachment 779161View attachment 779162View attachment 779163Now for me I’m not for using medication. But desperate times!! So I’m experimenting with meds. Changing water daily adding 2 tbls of salt per 10g and adding metro. Fish look the same but no white poo and they are eating! It’s the slime coat that is showing heavy. I also bought rid-ick which is recomended by Hans and on the discu sites but I’m not sure if it can be added to what’s in there now? Wish me luck . I guess unforunatly am going to get a lesson in medicating .

ahh that python is making me jealous lol love the discus

 

[coralbandit]

Pretty sure rid ich /metro and salt are good together ..

 

[Onpots]

View attachment 779163

Oh no... That doesn't look good at all. Any information you can give us so we try to give you a hand? Water parameters,...

Why the salt? Wouldn't it weaken the discus to fight against whatever they have.

If it is ich, I will just crank the temperature up for s few days. At 29/30 degrees celsius ich shouldn't last more than four days attached.

 

[86 ssinit]

Thanks Coral! But it’s getting better with the salt and metro. Will give it a few more days before I try the rid-ick.
Onpots it’s not ick. But something similar. Salt is fine for discus and recommended most. My waters good ph 7 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 and nitrate 5-10. All good. Best I can guess is something from the new guys transferred into this tank. Rid-ick has been recommended for this. It does seem like a cross contamination and not the plague.

 

[coralbandit]

Have you looked at Chilodonella ?

 

[86 ssinit]

Lol is that a place? Drink? Or disease? Ok looking it up.
Interesting. Seems Brian put me on the right track. Salt does kill that. Just the study didn’t give a time frame. Could very well be. On day 2 of new fish I added salt to their tank. Could be I cc on day one. New guys look great. Will keep up the salt and May stop the metro. Don’t think it’s doing anything. Going to remove most of the plants and redecorate that tank. Already removed half the gravel. Thanks for the info! You the man!!

 

[86 ssinit]

Well it’s been over a week now. The cc has moved into my other tank. Lucky me . So on advice I added 3 cups of salt to the first tank. No deaths but only 4 are out and eating as of yesterday morn. When by second tank got it I went with the rid-ich plus daily full doses and changing 50% of the water. This tank most have been eating through out and they look a lot better. Not well yet but better . Today is day 7 in second tank day 9 in first. Yesterday I added the rid-ich to first tank. Today they are more active and eating a bit. Will continue with the rid-ich.