Dead guppy other fish gasping

[Fishyfishyfishman]

My mom has a 5 gallon divided with a betta on one side and two guppies in the other. Last night they were laying under a piece of driftwood gasping. One had long stringy poop. I checked a few minutes ago and one was being eaten by one of her mystery snails. The tank has a sponge filter and a stock filter. Lots of plants. I‘m guessing the new (dead) guppy from petsmart gave something to the other fish but have no idea what. The betta was okay now he is gaspimg to. Please help I do not currently now parameters but will test. Did a 25ish water change yesterday.
Weput on a piece of frozen broccoli for the snails. The guppies tried to eat it. Could this be the problem? It was frozen and not boiled before entering?

 

[TropicalFlow]

IMEDIATLY Take the dead fish out of water! It will be realesing aminos and a bunch of terrible stuff into your water. Long stringy poop concludes a parasite. Most likely tge ammonia is killing. If you have a hospital tank, transfer everyone to there. Or At least least you betta. Di a 50 % water change and check your levels.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Dead fish is out what are the best medicines for parasites? have melafix and Pima fix (not for betta) I can have my mom by some stuff what should she get. it will have to be from petsmart or petco
The betta is in a filtered planted one gallon right now. If I put him with the guppy they will probably fight As the guppy’s tail is very large.

 

[ProudPapa]

Assuming you're on municipal water, did you remember to add declorinator yesterday when you did the water change?

Instead of taking the time to test the water, I'd go ahead and do a 50% water change.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

I am on well water but I did use prime
I will soon

 

[Spinich]

Well water contaminates exist outside of chlorine added to city water. Well water can also vary in its pH and hardness, and it usually contains little oxygen, so it will require aeration before fish can safely live in it. The gasping is a good sign you need to add some air to the tank.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

I have other fish that are doing great in my 10 gallon. I have never heard this before. If this is really the case how would you suggest i aerate it? My 5 endlers are happy and healthy in the same water.

 

[MMac]

I have other fish that are doing great in my 10 gallon. I have never heard this before. If this is really the case how would you suggest i aerate it? My 5 endlers are happy and healthy in the same water.

Do you have a bubble stone? If so, put it in the water and turn it on. If the water is void of o2, the higher the better. If you don't have an air stone, you will want to get one. When you do your water change, you can use a mixer to incorporate some of the room air into the water. What type of filter do you have? Ideally you will need one that breaks the surface of the water. Fish use up the o2 in the water column as they breath. If you don't replace that, then the o2 will be gone and they will not be able to breathe.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

There is a sponge filter in the 5 gallon and the pump on the filter is really high flow Creates a lot of surface agitation. In my 10 I have an aquaclear 30. Plus everything I’ve read says that plants oxygenate water. Is this wrong?

 

[Fish99]

There is a sponge filter in the 5 gallon and the pump on the filter is really high flow Creates a lot of surface agitation. In my 10 I have an aquaclear 30. Plus everything I’ve read says that plants oxygenate water. Is this wrong?

I have read that well water can have no oxygen too.
The fish being on the bottom like that is a very good sign of it.
I seriously doubt the plants will give that much oxygen, you better get lots of air in there and do small frequent WCs.
I've heard people will aerate well water before adding, I have no idea how long it would take to get enough oxygen in it. I think I would just do what I said above.
The dead fish is what probably started this whole thing though.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

I am confident the problem is not my water as I have a healthy tank running on the same water. Without an air stone or sponge filter. I feel like it is most likely a parasite, but I made this thread because my moms fish are dying/sick. My tank is healthy and not having breathing troubles and it has a lot less surface agitation.

 

[Fish99]

Dead fish is out what are the best medicines for parasites? have mela fix and Pima fix (not for betta) I can have my mom by some stuff what should she get. it will have to be from petsmart or petco
The betta is in a filtered planted one gallon right now. If I put him with the guppy they will probably fight As the guppy’s tail is very large.

Metroplex is good for internal parasites.
Mela fix is for bacterial infections.

 

[CindiL]

Hi, my favorite medicine for parasites is Hikari PraziPro, I always dose my tank when I get new fish as so many fish have parasites. It treats internal parasites like flat worm, tubellarian as well as external like flukes etc.
Seachem Metroplex is good but mainly treats external parasites like ich.

FYI her 5g tank should really just be for the betta. A 5g tank probably only holds 3.5 to 4g actual water.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

All I got is general cure will this work? and if so what is the best way to dose it? food? Straight into water? That 5 gallon is divided so I can’t give the betta the whole space. it isn’t any better for either and we dont have anywhere to put the guppy

 

[CryoraptorA303]

The symptoms seem to better fit ammonia or nitrite poisoning over any sort of infectious ailment. Were their any signs of gill damage, such as reddened or browned gills? What are your water parameters?

I'd also argue that neither the betta nor the guppies should be confined to 2.5 gallons of tank space.

 

[Fish99]

All I got is general cure will this work? and if so what is the best way to dose it? food? Straight into water? That 5 gallon is divided so I can’t give the betta the whole space. it isn’t any better for either and we dont have anywhere to put the guppy

Yes, it needs to be in the food for best results.
Sometimes fish will poop the mucus for no apparent reason though.
Are they still gasping? Are they better? I think I would just watch that fish before treating it.
Does it look healthy? Eyes clear? Belly ok? If so just watch it.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

No it quivers in front of the glass kind of gasping. Cant check parameters for a while

 

[CindiL]

All I got is general cure will this work? and if so what is the best way to dose it? food? Straight into water?

Yes API general cure is great because it has praziquantel in it (the same medicine recommended for internal and external parasites). Metro works good on some bacterial infections and some parasites.
There should be dosing instructions on the back for the water.

Also, have you tested that tank for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Sorry. It yet. Will test soon. Looks like gill area is a little red. Definitely red to test. Did a WC the fay of death.
Betta is In a 1 gallon temporarily and seems to be doing pretty good
The betta is in a 1 gallon should I put hI’m back in the 5? He seems to have some minor fin rot. What should I do?

 

[CryoraptorA303]

Sorry. It yet. Will test soon. Looks like gill area is a little red. Definitely red to test. Did a WC the fay of death.
Betta is In a 1 gallon temporarily and seems to be doing pretty good
The betta is in a 1 gallon should I put hI’m back in the 5? He seems to have some minor fin rot. What should I do?

Definitely ammonia poisoning. Keep the betta in the 1 gallon for now, with daily 100% water changes. Do the same for the surviving guppy in the 5. If the guppy survives the ordeal, return him to the store and give the betta the 5 gallon. Guppies are social fish and should be in groups, and should never be in anything smaller than a 10 gallon. If the guppy passes away at any point, do a complete water change and return the betta to the 5 gallon immediately.

Don't worry about fin rot right now; it's a normally slow-moving opportunistic infection that will in all likelihood start to clear itself up as the water quality improves. If it doesn't, that's something to treat after this acute ammonia problem is sorted. I would not use any medications right now unless signs of a serious infection presented. They can interfere with your tank's ecosystem and make your current problems worse. Imo they are only to be used as a last resort if no other underlying cause can be found and frequent water changes aren't helping. I have used medications in the past, and apart from phenoxyethanol for chronic, unresolving fin rot, none have helped and if anything exacerbated existing problems. I believe a particular one killed off my filter bacteria and severely disrupted the ecosystem of my tank, as it became extremely smelly and cloudy and my filter was invaded with excessive gunk, likely waste products excreted by harmful opportunistic bacteria that were left in a power vacuum after the normal microbiome was killed. I tried everything, complete water changes, transferring healthy water over from a parallel tank, but nothing worked and within a few days of a water change, the abnormal opportunists were back at large. I had no choice but to completely tear apart the tank, chucking the substrate and filter pads and leaving it empty for a good 5 months before starting again. This is a 37 gallon tank this medication did this to, so I don't want to imagine how quickly it can completely kill the ecosystem of a small 5 gallon tank like yours.

Most fish become ill with infectious ailments due to stress. If you fix the underlying problem causing the stress, the infections will likely resolve unless they are too advanced for the fish to fight off. I have seen tetras and cories come back to full health from some of the worst fin rot I have ever seen (entire dorsal fins and barbells missing), with absolutely no medical intervention whatsoever. All they needed was clean water and a healthy diet.

I wouldn't wait to test the water. Start 100% daily water changes asap.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

I did test water 0-25 ammonia 0 nitrites 20-higher redish orange nitrates .

itis divided in half by a built in acrylic walll so I cant give the betta the whole space and the guppy was from eBay a few weeks ago. Cant return

i am a starting to hate that type of tank.

funny what you said about entire dorsal fins missing that was the case Edith my first endlers and didn’t even notice until they healed back. I got them from a crappy store and didn’t know better
what is the best way to dose general cure and how do I do it. How much do I put in food?

in stead of telling me what’s wro g with the setup tell me what I should do. Put the betta back in the 5? I really need help and your just telling me to do stuff I can’t right now.

 

[CindiL]

Would you test your tap for nitrates so we have a baseline?

What is your ph? Ammonia at .25 isn’t high and if your PH is under 8.0 isn’t toxic at that level yet so I am not convinced this is ammonia poisoning. Is the ammonia level you tested on the main divided tank or the hospital tank?

If you want to hold off on the medicine for now I’d recommend daily water changes and adding salt (non-iodized), sea salt or canning / pickling salt are good options. 1 tsp per actual gallon water in the tank, dissolved first in a little bit of tank water. It helps breathing as well as the fin rot. Do daily water changes, replace the salt as it’s only removed with water changes. So 1 gallon out, 1 tsp salt back in.

Note on the medicine: you can dose API general cure straight into the water (dissolve it first) but do a large water change first, a good 50%. Metro and Prazi will not negatively effect the bio-filter. There are some that do like methylene blue will kill off the nitrifyers in the tank so can only be used in a hospital tank with daily water changes. The stringy poo is what makes me think it’s internal parasite, though in some fish can be a sign of constipation if over fed.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

pH is not that high I believe that is in the main tank. The bettas seemed to be doing better than the guppy so I put him back in the large tank. It is also to cold for the betta in the hospital tank.

I do not know about Salt. I do not have aquarium salt what makes Salt okay/bad?

the guppy that I saw have log stringy poo was the one that died and I haven’t seen the living one poo Yet. he is swimming erratically. Kind of gasping. He will eat but the betta will not.

is dosing with food better than straight into the water ? If so how much do I put in?

thank you.

 

[CindiL]

Any non-iodized salt is fine, so salt without anything in it other than salt. Sea Salt, aquarium salt (over priced though), canning/pickling salt, quite a few options, just not table salt with iodine in it.

There are products you can mix fish medicine with though I don’t recall their name, I think SeaChem makes one. The prazi will work through the water column, does not have to be ingested directly, they will take it in through their gills.

The most important thing is keeping ammonia where it’s at or 0 with water changes. This tank has been setup for awhile though right and with the sponge filter should be cycled. Make sure you or your mom only rinses it out in old tank water or dechlorinated water. I know you’re on a well but some well systems inject disinfectant, at least the shared one I’m on does so make sure to always use prime.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

i dont think I have any salt that’s safe we always use prime

tap nitrates are 5-10 I believe I do not have a sheet for it so I have to guess of online pics

spinge filter is cycled

 

[CryoraptorA303]

I still don't think this is of infectious origin. The symptoms don't make sense. Quite honestly, if this was infectious, your betta and surviving guppy would have passed by now. All the signs seem to point to poisoning (especially the gasping and reddened gills), and ammonia is the simplest to explain how it's poisoning your fish.

I would definitely not start using medications until ammonia or nitrite poisoning is ruled out. If an infectious agent is not the root cause of these issues, they will in the end not help anything, and as I explained before, could make things worse. As I said before, I would only start meds before ruling out poisoning if a serious infectious complication arises. Until then its best to keep doing complete water changes daily.

This is obviously not a sudden ammonia or nitrite spike, as your fish would be far more ill by now and probably dead already. I suspect that the filter is insufficient for the fish you have and the water volume (as mentioned before, you shouldn't even have the guppies in that tank to begin with) and over time as the fish have grown it is having trouble keeping the waste levels down, until ammonia or nitrite levels have risen to a clinically significant level. Store bought guppies are very weak, especially females, and can drop dead as soon as something goes wrong, so if anything I'm actually surprised that the second guppy is still hanging on. The betta is twice the size of the guppies so it can tolerate a lot more ammonia/nitrite, so he should be holding on much easier.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

I think I was wrong on. The red gills. It is not his gills but some natural color. Higher and farther back the betta shows no red/brown gill

 

[CryoraptorA303]

I think I was wrong on. The red gills. It is not his gills but some natural color. Higher and farther back the betta shows no red/brown gill

Right. Sorry if you mentioned this earlier, but how long have you had these fish?

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

About a month for the betta and 3 weeks for the living guppy the dead one about 6-8 days

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

The living guppy is in a 1g hospital tank. He eats. He quivers/shakes/tilts back in forth in place. He dosent move much. I saw a red worm thing hanging out his anus earlie. I started the general cure in him. Is this a good thing or bad?

 

[CindiL]

Sounds like an intestinal worm so the General Cure is the perfect medicine to be using with both the Prazi and Metro in it. He will absorb it through his gills and skin. I would proactively treat the betta tank also as they shared the same eco-system.

Honestly I always treat my tank for parasites when I introduce new fish as they seem to bring them in from shared tanks and water at the pet stores.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Okay thanks. I will does that mean it killed it and passed it through?

im still keeping the little guy separate because he seems much worse. Betta lethargic but not bad. What about the quivering/rocking back and forth? Is that parasite caused?

 

[CindiL]

Yes I think so. There will probably be more. Yes, the quivering is most likely parasite caused. When they have external parasites you’ll often also see quivering, rubbing themselves on ornaments or substrate, darting around.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Okay so that means the stuff is working and he will lay likely recover?

Thank you so much fir the advice and guidance.

 

[CryoraptorA303]

Ok, NFS can be ruled out, which is a good thing.

If this guppy is cured he should be returned to the store and the betta given the 5 gallon for himself.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

I’ve been over this. He was bought online and it’s a 5 gallon with a built in acrylic divider

 

[CindiL]

Okay so that means the stuff is working and he will lay likely recover?

Thank you so much fir the advice and guidance.

I hope so, guppies are pretty weak but this should take care of that and you’re welcome . Hope he recovers.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Man. Guppies suck. “Best beginner fish” “hardiest fish” worlds greatest scam. Thanks I really hope he recovers. We thought he was gonna die for sure.

what are tips for making fish eat more. Bettas been a little picky from the beginning.

 

[CindiL]

It doesn’t mean he won’t recover but parasites, being shipped, new tank are all stressors.

I mostly feed my betta frozen blood worms and Hikari floating betta ballets. The bloodworms come in cubes and I thaw one out a week and keep it in a small container in my fridge. I feed my betta 2 blood worms 2x a day and a couple pellets 2x a day.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

avtually I think the one that brought it in was the petsmart guppy. aka dead one

I have cheap betta pellets and daphnia. gonna try to feed more. Thanks. Are flakes bad for bettas? I have higher quality flakes but only cheap pellets.

 

[CindiL]

No, they’re not bad it’s just hard to not over feed. The daphnia is good though.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Oh that makes sense. I accidentally dropped a few un crushed flakes in my 10 gallon. One endler ate two. Looked like he would die in the next hour. He looked normal the next day. Whoops.

if I don’t have garlic guard or something like that how can I do it with out? I think I have fresh garlic and garlic powder.


EDIT- the guppies dead. Did I do something wrong I feel terrible. Frick this sucks. I told my mom I thought he’d recover. I didn’t change the water even though the tank was to small because I didn’t Want to remove the medicine. Was that bad?

 

[CindiL]

No, he had parasites, was under a lot of stress anyways. Most likely the parasites killed him, not you. I would though make sure to treat the betta. Maybe talk your mom into getting the betta a 5g tank of his own.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Might work. I don’t want to offend her. We cancelled the other guppy and aren’t getting a betta in that side. Just snails and shrimp. i Hate that the divider is built in. His tail looked like it was stuck around The filter Intake. (yes I modified a 1 gallon mini bow filter. lol).

on a side note. How long would I have t boil something that was in that tank to make it safe for other tanks. There was a piece of driftwood in there I want. Boiled for a minute or two is that enough? Or do I just need to get a new piece?

thank you for all the help. People on fishlore are great. again thank you

 

[CindiL]

Yeah I would think boiling for a few minutes would do the trick but not 100% on that. When you get your new fish do a proactive parasite treatment.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Agreed. Will general cure disrupt a tank much.I don’t have room for the other fish. I don’t want to keep 4 endlers in a 1 gallon uncycled tank.

 

[CindiL]

No, it shouldn’t disrupt the cycle.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

would it stress out the other fish? I’d rather not medicate the whole tank but the only “qt” I could use is a 1 gallon that the guppy was in. And for 4 endlers that could be bad dont you think?

 

[CryoraptorA303]

Yes, guppies are generally not a good beginner fish at all, stock that isn't directly from a fish farm tends to be very weak and frequently diseased. The amount of money I have wasted on LFS guppies is certainly in the hundreds. Endlers or swordtails are much hardier alternatives. Platies and mollies can be just as weak due to the same excessive inbreeding, although guppies seem to be the most inbred fish on the market by far. If they catch any disease worse than weak fin rot, they will most likely die regardless of any treatment because they are immunocompromised and very likely frequently suffer from congenital diseases involving the major organs from the hundreds of thousands of generations of inbreeding. They also age very badly; I've seen guppies not even a year old already looking like living corpses.

Make sure the betta gets the 5 gallon to himself. That's the bare minimum that he requires, and as I've said before, guppies are social fish that should be kept in at least small groups in a tank no smaller than 10 gallons. No more guppies or any other fish.

EDIT: I see that your 5 gallon's divider is built in and can't be removed. Get a normal 5 gallon for the betta if you can.

 

[Fishyfishyfishman]

Yeah we aren’t getting ay other fish. Just a few shrimp. I’m not trying to start an argument but quite a few people consider 2.5 gallons to be the minimum. Not saying a plakat or anything. But he has huge fins. I could potentially get my mom to get another 5 but she wouldn’t like it. I mean using the same plants and such it wouldnt cost a lot but still…