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This is annoying, I have encountered these small things again. can API general cure kill them?
50 Gallon Tank Can API general cure kill ich?
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General cure is more for other types of parasites. It might do a little damage to ich, but you would be much better off using an ich specific med if you go that route.
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eh no..
What I know about metronidazole, is that it is an anti-protozoan. wouldn't it enough to kill all of them?
That's mainly an antibiotic and only secondarily used against protozoans. It's perfect to completely nuke your tank out of its biological balance.
There are dozens of products out there that are specifically targeted against ich. Just pick one.
You could also do the med-less treatment of high temperature (30°C) + salt if your fish can withstand it.
And I would probably check my hygiene measures if that happens regularly. Are your fish stressed permanently in some way? Do you add new fish with the store water?
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Ok, instead of asking singular questions I would like to ask you to fill out the emergency template, please.
When ich becomes a constant thing something is usually wrong with the general conditions.
When ich becomes a constant thing something is usually wrong with the general conditions.
Chiasmodon For ich fish, I read that increasing the temperature to 80 degrees over the course of 2 days, could really be helpful. However, you have to be increasing the temperature in very slow increments so the fish won't be shocked. Even once the ich is gone you still leave it at 80 for about a week or so. Then, you have to vac your tank bc of all of the whitish things that fell of them I believe.
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Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?
How long has the tank been running?
Does it have a filter?
Does it have a heater?
What is the water temperature?
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
How much of the water do you change?
What do you use to treat your water?
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
What do you use to test the water?
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
- 2x a day
How much do you feed your fish?
- 1 small pinch that they eat for 30 seconds
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
- Wachupong
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
- no
Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
-5 days ago
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
-1 day ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
- it just white dots
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
- yes, with API general cure
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
- No, I did not see any symptoms, but as I said, the white dot just appeared.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
- No
Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)
So, I got these white skirt tetras and they were doing fine when I got them, I was going to quarantine them but.. I'm just a starter and I don't have any aerator to provide them oxygen.. and that means I did mess up.. but it's a good thing that I did not put the water from the store along with fish .. cause I believe it'll make it worst. at the moment, I don't have enough money to afford another medicine for my fish, I only have API G cure. and something that could heat the tank to kill some parasites.
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Most of my search says.. 80 to 84 C. I hope this works.. this is the temperature I only I can achieve at the moment.
This info is worth it. So they are new and with them you introduced ich to your tank.
And you can't afford buying a targeted med...
Allright, the heat treatment will be your best shot. Dial up the temp to 30°C and keep it there for at least 72 hours.
You didn't answer the questions about maintenance and tech equipment. But you said you don't have an airpump. The tank does have a filter, right? If so, this can be sufficient to kep the water aerated during heat treatment, as at 30°C the oxygen levels are really low.
And for the future better try a more reputable source for the fish.
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Alright, Ty for the information, I did really messed up. I will save up money to buy an aerator for small quarantine tanks and actually meds for ich (incase API did not work at all) . the tank is heated up every day because it's summer here, but I put bottles with ice if it becomes too hot.
Tropical fish can be confronted with temperatures between 18 and 34°C in nature. In the same biotope at different times of day and/or year. Discus have to be kept at around 30°C, German Blue Rams prefer approx. 28°C.
The ich-parasite dies off at 30°C and above. The temperature has to be kept for several days to kill off all the parasites. It's a treatment, not a permanent parameter change. Most fish can take this for a week or two.
Good choice.
You have to keep a constant 30°C. 1-2° more is fine, but it must not drop below that during the treatment!
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Chiasmodon Besides what he said above, there is really no harm in trying or maybe there is according to what he said. Maybe you could still increase the heat of the tank to 84 and leave the lid off for some time? You could try alternative ways of increasing the tank temp.alright then, ill just rely to API general cure
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alright then, ill just rely to API general cure
Sadly, seems to be your only option right now, yes.
Correct.
Nivlaa: Your enthusiasm to help is appreciated, but I now have to curb it and I'd like to politely ask you to stop trying to help for the moment, as you obviously still have to learn a lot.
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Can you recommend any products that I can easily afford? I found a malachite green and .. its really cheap but I don't know if this really effective, judging by its price.
I don't know where you live, hence it's hard to say what's available to you. I have Costapur F by Sera in my fish pharmacy box, which is basically a form of malachite green in a formaldehyde solution and which is my go to for ich since 1995.
Price: Standard size bottle costs about 10-15€. Just for comparison.
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Yes, most anti-ich meds use the same or a very similar formula. That's why I said get what's available earlier.
If you only get malachite green alone I can't help you with dosage, though, but I bet there's somebody here on the forum that can.
Malachite green can be problematic for catfish and loaches, I haven't had any problems, yet. I haven't seen any problems with snails either. No experience when it comes to shrimp, though.
If you have plants that tend to melt easily (floaters, water weeds like egeria and the like), remove them before use and put them in a separate container for at least 2-3 weeks. That's how long it takes for the parasites to die off without fish (= hosts) present in the tank.
If you only get malachite green alone I can't help you with dosage, though, but I bet there's somebody here on the forum that can.
Malachite green can be problematic for catfish and loaches, I haven't had any problems, yet. I haven't seen any problems with snails either. No experience when it comes to shrimp, though.
If you have plants that tend to melt easily (floaters, water weeds like egeria and the like), remove them before use and put them in a separate container for at least 2-3 weeks. That's how long it takes for the parasites to die off without fish (= hosts) present in the tank.
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I see. I have many floaters. that means I need to place them somewhere. for now, I'm going to wait for 2 days to see if Metronidazole/API General cure did help.. if not, then I'm going to buy malachite green or .. other cheaper treatments on there.
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Apparently, the temperature rises as the sun rises.. I can actually achieve 86 to 89 F but it is not stable, as I turn off my light at night it goes does down to 31 celsius .. man, I really do suck in reading the thermometer.. I just bought 1 and I thought I know what I am doing.. my bad.. but anyways, it is good news that my tank is actually warm.. not just because of the outside temperature but also the bubbles of the aerator I have and my aquarium cover. so what I'm going to do now.. is that I'm going to put salt to the tank (Pure Sea Salt, not Iodized) after I remove all plants that are not tolerant to salt and my snails and also all the fish and place them all in separate buckets. the only problem with this is my tetras.. they need sufficient air.. unlike labyrinth fish and livebearers.
Methelyn blue and Malachite green will kill my BB and my plants so nope. Ill just buy salt.
here is the method that I think is.. uh effective.
1. Wait for 2 days until they fall off.
2. When they fall off, use a vacuum and change the water - 50%
3. remove fish, snails - put them into something comfortable.
4. Separate plants that are not tolerant to salt.
5. Raise temperature for two days - turn off the light - and Add medication again (API general cure) or sea salt - 1 Tb spoon per/ 10 gallons - for plants.
is this method good or if not, can you suggest another method?.
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It sounds like you can keep the temp at 30C or slightly above. That is good and that is all that is essential other than aeration. In most cases Ich will stop reproducing at 30C. But you can't let it drop below 30. Don't remove fish, snails, plants. Keep everything in the tank that is under treatment. Salt is optional.
General Cure is unlikely to benefit. If you're going to buy something else like some form of malachite green post a link to it so we can see what product you're looking at.
General Cure is unlikely to benefit. If you're going to buy something else like some form of malachite green post a link to it so we can see what product you're looking at.
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Makes no sense at all.
1. Why? The parasite is still in the tank and may colonize the next fish immediately.
2. You can't time this, the parasites are not doing everything at the same time.
3. Why the fish? Ich doesn't only infect one species of fish. Snails... Maybe removable.
4. This at least makes sense. But you will have to quarantine them.
5. No. Just no.
Good luck.
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I actually got these ideas from youtube videos.
by the way, some of the ich are now gone.. but few are still on the fish's scale probably fell off and stars to reproduce.
so what I gonna do instead is
1. Remove all fish and put them in separate containers
2. Increase the temperature to 30 c in the main tank to speed up the life cycle and killing all the icks because there is no more fish to cling into
3. Put salt (API aquarium salt.. or just cheap sea salt without additives) into the separate containers and in the main tank ( does salt kill icks directly in the tank?)
again, I ask your advice. ty by the way for the fast response.
Ok, listen, you completely got the way ich works wrong, that's why your plan won't do it.
Again, here's the life cycle:
1. Ich colonizes the fish, forms a cyst (white dot) and reproduces.
2. The cyst opens, a lot of little ich parasites are released into the water.
3. The parasites colonize the next fish and/or stay on/in the substrate. At this point they are NOT VISIBLE.
4. Repeat from 1.
The fish not showing white spots for a few hours does not mean there is no ich parasite anymore on the fish.
Also, the parasites do not do all of this at the same time. They are not synchronized (which is what you seem to think).
At 30°C the life cycle is not sped up anymore, but this is the temp at which the parasites die off.
Salt helps kill off the few surviving parasites.
That means with distributing the fish to different containers you are also spreading the parasites to ALL THOSE CONTAINERS. I hope you haven't moved any fish yet, because whoever gave you that idea would make you contaminate all your equipment.
Important: You HAVE TO TREAT ich in every tank you have kept the infected fish in.
Plants should only be removed if they are sensitive to malachite green or salt, same with snails and both have to stay in quarantine for a few weeks.
Well *bleep*ing great. Whoever gave this advise in a YT-video should be forced to apologize publicly and end their channel.
I'm just really frustrated with people listening to everything at once, without thinking. A lot of advise cancels each other out. Either listen to YT, reddit OR to the people on a forum but not all at once.
Again, here's the life cycle:
1. Ich colonizes the fish, forms a cyst (white dot) and reproduces.
2. The cyst opens, a lot of little ich parasites are released into the water.
3. The parasites colonize the next fish and/or stay on/in the substrate. At this point they are NOT VISIBLE.
4. Repeat from 1.
The fish not showing white spots for a few hours does not mean there is no ich parasite anymore on the fish.
Also, the parasites do not do all of this at the same time. They are not synchronized (which is what you seem to think).
At 30°C the life cycle is not sped up anymore, but this is the temp at which the parasites die off.
Salt helps kill off the few surviving parasites.
That means with distributing the fish to different containers you are also spreading the parasites to ALL THOSE CONTAINERS. I hope you haven't moved any fish yet, because whoever gave you that idea would make you contaminate all your equipment.
Important: You HAVE TO TREAT ich in every tank you have kept the infected fish in.
Plants should only be removed if they are sensitive to malachite green or salt, same with snails and both have to stay in quarantine for a few weeks.
Well *bleep*ing great. Whoever gave this advise in a YT-video should be forced to apologize publicly and end their channel.
I'm just really frustrated with people listening to everything at once, without thinking. A lot of advise cancels each other out. Either listen to YT, reddit OR to the people on a forum but not all at once.
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alr
by the way, can I treat freshwater ich with sea salt? and.. I did not move my fish yet.. they are still in my tank.
right, ty for the warning, I've been searching a lot myself and they have different.. statements... probably just opinionated.. that's why Im here asking for advice that actually has an explanation so thank you!
by the way, can I treat freshwater ich with sea salt? and.. I did not move my fish yet.. they are still in my tank.
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Ich is rather difficult to cure if you do not treat it properly.
Some of the ich medications state that they will kill ich parasites within 24 hours. Thus, inexperienced fishkeepers get the idea that they can treat their tank and 24 hours later the parasitic infection can be cured. That is far from the truth.
Ich parasites have a life cycle. When we become aware of the infection is when we notice white cysts on the body and fins of a fish. However, that cyst is like armor plating around the actual parasites. Medication won't touch them. The parasites multiply and grow inside the cyst until it ruptures and tiny ich tomites are scattered throughout the aquarium. An inexperienced fishkeeper then notices that the cycts are gone, so they think the infection is cured. Sorry, that is not the case.
Fortunately, while the tiny tomites are swimming around in the aquarium, they have no armor protection. Thus, at this point they are susceptible to being killed by elevated temperatures, salt, and medications such as malachite green. Unfortunately, these same conditions can also be stressful to fish and other inverterbrates in the tank. It is the same type of situation that oncologists face when treating cancer patients; how to you kill the cancer cells without killing the patient? How do we kill the ich without killing fish, shrimp, snails, and beneficial bacteria?
Not all ich cysts will hatch at the same time. Thus, it is necessary to continue treatment for several weeks to insure that all cysts have hatched and all tomites in the water have been killed. If even one parasite survives, it can reinfect the tank.
Some of the ich medications state that they will kill ich parasites within 24 hours. Thus, inexperienced fishkeepers get the idea that they can treat their tank and 24 hours later the parasitic infection can be cured. That is far from the truth.
Ich parasites have a life cycle. When we become aware of the infection is when we notice white cysts on the body and fins of a fish. However, that cyst is like armor plating around the actual parasites. Medication won't touch them. The parasites multiply and grow inside the cyst until it ruptures and tiny ich tomites are scattered throughout the aquarium. An inexperienced fishkeeper then notices that the cycts are gone, so they think the infection is cured. Sorry, that is not the case.
Fortunately, while the tiny tomites are swimming around in the aquarium, they have no armor protection. Thus, at this point they are susceptible to being killed by elevated temperatures, salt, and medications such as malachite green. Unfortunately, these same conditions can also be stressful to fish and other inverterbrates in the tank. It is the same type of situation that oncologists face when treating cancer patients; how to you kill the cancer cells without killing the patient? How do we kill the ich without killing fish, shrimp, snails, and beneficial bacteria?
Not all ich cysts will hatch at the same time. Thus, it is necessary to continue treatment for several weeks to insure that all cysts have hatched and all tomites in the water have been killed. If even one parasite survives, it can reinfect the tank.
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Salt is an effective Ich treatment on its own but only at quite high doses and I would only use it as a treatment at such a high dose (about 1 Tbsp per gallon) for very salt tolerant species like goldfish and livebearers. Some people say that it can help, at a lower dose, when using another Ich treatment such as heat or meds. I personally wouldn't bother but it's up to you. You could add 1 Tbsp per 3 gallons (gradually) and your fish will be ok. If you'd rather not remove your plants for the treatment period reduce the dose further to 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons.
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Up to you. Heat or meds are the primary choices for Ich treatment. Salt may assist, but it's not a primary treatment for tetras. No need for WC and no need for repeat doses. Salt doesn't evaporate.
Whatever treatment(s) you use, observe your fish for any adverse reactions. That's why I'm not a fan of combining treatments. If you do and they react badly it can be difficult to tell what they are reacting to.
Doing large water changes can help reduce the number of ich tomites swimming around the aquarium, so it is helpful, but water changes alone cannot eliminate ich as some parasites will remain.
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Alright then, I'll just let the salt do the job without interfering. and.. for me, I don't really trust the cheap meds.. that are found in our local store. the price of one product is only equivalent to 1 dollar. (since we don't use dollar currency here)
good point.. I think this is only applicable when every white dots fall off the fish. ( I hope I'm lucky enough that all the ick fall off in the same day )
Random Great Topic!
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