Blackwater Parosphromenus Tank Thoughts/Tips?

[Dkapp]

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone would possibly be willing to help me out in planning out a 20 gal long Parosphromenus blackwater tank?

I've done a fair amount of research regarding the species, its requirements, demeanor, etc. and although I am relatively assured I can meet this species' needs, I haven't had any personal experience prior with the Licorice Gourami, so I'd appreciate possible input/advice regarding my plans for the tank so far. I'm not foreign to or inexperienced with keeping low pH/soft water tanks, as in the past I'd gone through a phase of creating tanks with environments similar to the needs of Parosphromenus, except I had been keeping bettas in them, although I'm also not exactly an expert either. I more of just lack experience with this species besides the research I've done in the past few weeks or so. I plan on laying out the tank with a moderate amount of driftwood and heavily planting much of it, utilizing a darker substrate such as Fluval Stratum, with a sparse quantity of inert rocks (most likely Dragonstone), sterilized half-terracotta pots, and Indian Almond leaf litter throughout. I don't have much experience using peat granules, but for a species such as Parosphromenus I'd planned on putting them into the filter to maintain the needed pH range and softness, keeping the pH within a range of around 5.5-6.0, and hardness as low as possible.

As for what I plan to stock the tank with, at least as of now unless I'm mistaken upon the compatibility of these species, is:
- 5 Parosphromenus; Licorice Gourami (More specifically 2 Parosphromenus tweediei, 2 Parosphromenus gunawani, and 1 Parosphromenus nagyi)
- 3 Sphaerichthys osphromenoides; Chocolate Gourami (As they require similar parameters and from what I've read they are compatible, although I'm hesitant to keep them within the same tank, especially due to how docile Parosphromenus can be, hence one of the reasons I'm asking for input before I take any steps toward assembling this tank).
- 1 Betta coccina (Of which I'm again hesitant of adding for the same reasons as Sphaerichthys osphromenoides)
- 4 Corydoras habrosus; Dwarf Spotted Corydora
- 6 Boraras maculatus; Pygmy Spotted Rasboras
- 1 Akysis vespa; Orange-banded Bee Catfish
- 1 Atyopsis moluccensis; Bamboo Shrimp
- And possibly 3 Pangio semicincta; Kuhli Loach (I feel as though I'm waning toward overstocking with the quantity of fish listed combined in only a 20 gal long, assuming compatibility issues alone do not rule out some of the species listed).

I feel as though I should also make clear that I'm aware of how finicky the diets of the Parosphromenus and Sphaerichthys osphromenoides can be, and in order to fulfill their need for live food I plan on establishing a few live daphnia colonies before purchasing any of these fish. On top of this, I'd also like to point out that this tank, at least at this point in this point in time, is completely theoretical, in the sense that I am not currently in possession of any of these fish listed nor the tank, and although I do have laid out where I can source the needed supplies for the tank and acquire the fish from, it is completely open to critique and reconstruction, as it is the primary reason for creating this post.

As I mentioned above, my main concern is with the compatibility of these species, as I fear Parosphromenus may possibly be too timid for some of the other species listed, and lacking any personal experience with this species, I much rather come here and seek advice from someone with more experience with Parosphromenus than risk pairing these fish with a species too boisterous or aggressive. As far as I'm aware the species I listed are all compatible with the parameters and environment that Parosphromenus require as well, but again if I'm mistaken please correct me.

Thanks!

 

[FinalFins]

Why not just make a species only licorice gourami tank? Like you said considering that paro's are docile I would think giving them a 20 to themselves is the best choice. Is there any particular reason for multiple species of paro?

I would also be concerned for the bamboo shrimp in such a low hardness environment.

 

[Dkapp]

Why not just make a species only licorice gourami tank? Like you said considering that paro's are docile I would think giving them a 20 to themselves is the best choice. Is there any particular reason for multiple species of paro?

I would also be concerned for the bamboo shrimp in such a low hardness environment.

Yeah I see what you mean, I'm not opposed at all to a species only tank, especially since it removes the worry about having any compatibility issues. There was no specific reason I'd planned on having different species of Licorice Gourami besides for variety, it wouldn't cause any issues if the three species of Parosphromenus were kept together so long as a proper male to female ratio was maintained, right?

Also, yeah I'm not sure why it hadn't crossed my mind that any shrimp wouldn't be suited to the parameters the tank would be at, so I definitely won't be adding them lol. My one question is, if I did decide to do a full single species tank, would I still be okay keeping the four Corydoras habrosus alongside them? I typically like keeping some sort of bottom-dweller in each of my tanks, and although they aren't aggressive, would their activity cause the Parosphromenus to be overly timid and hence outcompeted?

 

[Kaity]

Yeah I see what you mean, I'm not opposed at all to a species only tank, especially since it removes the worry about having any compatibility issues. There was no specific reason I'd planned on having different species of Licorice Gourami besides for variety, it wouldn't cause any issues if the three species of Parosphromenus were kept together so long as a proper male to female ratio was maintained, right?

Also, yeah I'm not sure why it hadn't crossed my mind that any shrimp wouldn't be suited to the parameters the tank would be at, so I definitely won't be adding them lol. My one question is, if I did decide to do a full single species tank, would I still be okay keeping the four Corydoras habrosus alongside them? I typically like keeping some sort of bottom-dweller in each of my tanks, and although they aren't aggressive, would their activity cause the Parosphromenus to be overly timid and hence outcompeted?

You would be better of with the pangio loaches than the cories in my opinion....


And I would stick to one type of licorice gourami. The hope is that they breed and with the current aquatic environment you will have a better time selling pure offspring

 

[Dkapp]

You would be better of with the pangio loaches than the cories in my opinion....


And I would stick to one type of licorice gourami. The hope is that they breed and with the current aquatic environment you will have a better time selling pure offspring

Oh alright, I'll probably just go with solely Parosphromenus tweediei in the tank then, thanks!

 

[Kaity]

What about a group of asian stone cats I think they cohabitate well. Not as fun as cories I know... Anyway good luck have fun

 

[Dkapp]

What about a group of asian stone cats I think they cohabitate well. Not as fun as cories I know... Anyway good luck have fun

Those could definitely be interesting if I can find somewhere that sells them lol. I've read a bit about them in the past, and they would definitely be a better fit than Corys, they hadn't even come to mind when I was originally planning out what to stock the tank with. Thanks again!

 

[TClare]

It sounds a very interesting project...As this is quite specialized, I also would be inclined to do a species only set up, or use another suitable species that would occur naturally together (which I would have to research). I hope you will eventually post some photos!

 

[Dkapp]

It sounds a very interesting project...As this is quite specialized, I also would be inclined to do a species only set up, or use another suitable species that would occur naturally together (which I would have to research). I hope you will eventually post some photos!

I'll be sure to! It may be awhile before I have anything presentable, since I haven't even started the process of properly cycling and assembling the tank, but when the time comes, I'll be more than happy to share lol

 

[rpm99]

Paros are extremely threatened, some are just about extinct, in the wild. Keeping multiple species that could hybridize is extremely irresponsible IMO. They are very threatened keep the strains intact.
I would suggest that unless you find F1 or later gen you try one the hardier , easier to keep species like P. Linkei. , then try the more demanding types if you have success. Better yet why don't you try Sparkling Gouramis, they will do well in the environment you are planning , you wont kill them unless you try, throw some phoenix rasbos in you will have a psuedo biotope and it you won't have to spend 30 bucks + shipping on a trio of P.Tweediei that you don't seem to know very much about.
The best resource for Paros species is parosphromenus-project.org

 

[MacZ]

Paros are extremely threatened, some are just about extinct, in the wild. Keeping multiple species that could hybridize is extremely irresponsible IMO. They are very threatened keep the strains intact.
I would suggest that unless you find F1 or later gen you try one the hardier , easier to keep species like P. Linkei. , then try the more demanding types if you have success. Better yet why don't try Sparkling Gouramis, they will do well in the environment you are planning , you wont kill them unless you try, throw some phoenix rasbos in you will have a psuedo biotope and it you won't have to spend 30 bucks + shipping on a trio of P.Tweediei that you don't seem to know very much about.
The best resource for Paros species is parosphromenus-project.org

I was just going to link that project, too. Here again with a proper link: www.parosphromenus-project.org
Agree with all points.

@OP: The mentioned pH of 4.5-5.5 is not feasable without pure RO and peat filtration, the actually needed 3.5-4.5 are not possible without working with stronger acids than humic acids. They are also best kept in species tanks and the people that breed them to prevent extinction use small 30 liter tanks for that, otherwise the extreme water parameters are hardly to maintain stable.

 

[Catappa]

I was just going to link that project, too. Here again with a proper link: www.parosphromenus-project.org
Agree with all points.

@OP: The mentioned pH of 4.5-5.5 is not feasable without pure RO and peat filtration, the actually needed 3.5-4.5 are not possible without working with stronger acids than humic acids. They are also best kept in species tanks and the people that breed them to prevent extinction use small 30 liter tanks for that, otherwise the extreme water parameters are hardly to maintain stable.

You guys all beat me to it, I was also going to link to the Parosphromenus Project. I was all prepared (some years ago), had made contacts/arrangements for several kinds of the fish, including really hard to find ones, was an active member, made some great friends there, bought a LOT of tanks and was preparing them, even growing mosquitos outdoors, etc. But the professor who runs the project kept losing his temper with me and others -- there is only ONE way to do anything in the project, HIS way and I didn't agree with it all! For example, he dictated tiny tanks -- really tiny! Not 30 liters, which I would also consider small, but he would have become apoplectic about, as that was way too big! (Maybe he's changed his thoughts on this by now.) I refused to go smaller than 20 liters and even thought that was too small, but he INSISTED I go much smaller! I don't suffer fools gladly and am really too old to put up with insulting personal emails, even from a highly knowledgeable aquarist/professor! I wasn't the only one on the receiving end of his wrath.

I realized (in time) that my health issues made it impractical for me to participate, what with all the breeding of live food, etc. involved and I din't need the stress of communicating with him. So I never got the fish. A couple of the project people wrote to me privately, advising how I should go about it anyway, in my own way, which they also did, but I decided not to. Having said all that, you can learn a great deal through the project. It certainly increased my knowledge about many different labyrinth fish and even led to a correspondence with the great Horst Linke!
Best wishes and please keep us informed.
Just adding that from what I recall, we were advised to keep species-only tanks.

 

[Dkapp]

Paros are extremely threatened, some are just about extinct, in the wild. Keeping multiple species that could hybridize is extremely irresponsible IMO. They are very threatened keep the strains intact.
I would suggest that unless you find F1 or later gen you try one the hardier , easier to keep species like P. Linkei. , then try the more demanding types if you have success. Better yet why don't you try Sparkling Gouramis, they will do well in the environment you are planning , you wont kill them unless you try, throw some phoenix rasbos in you will have a psuedo biotope and it you won't have to spend 30 bucks + shipping on a trio of P.Tweediei that you don't seem to know very much about.
The best resource for Paros species is parosphromenus-project.org

Yeah, after further revising my original plan and further looking through available resources and information, I’m aware the species I had initially picked would have very easily hybridized, and I’ve reformed my plan from this post almost entirely. Currently, my plan as of now is utilizing a 10 gallon, of which would be stocked with three pairs of Parosphromenus tweediei, along with six Boraras brigittae to function as dither fish and five Hara jerdoni. However, the tank is currently unstocked and will remain unstocked until I feel confident it can properly house these fish, as my pH has been hanging around 5.8, and KH & GH around 17.9 ppm. I’m still awaiting my botanicals, and I’m aiming to achieve a tank suitable to their needs for breeding while not being out of the realm of possibility to properly maintain. This is the tank as of now:

This is not at all the final product, most of these plants are rather new so further establishment and growth is needed, and more spaces to function as territory. Along with this, I need to sort out a proper source of suitable live food, as solely Daphnia would be insufficient, so I may need to maintain a colony of Artemia as well.

 

[Catappa]

I know you wrote that you've done lots of research, but most of your plans don't line up with even general advice about keeping these endangered fish.

I've been looking through my private correspondence with Professor Peter Finke and he wrote to me extensively about why one shouldn't bother with plants, unless they are floating Ceratopsis. Java ferns might last awhile, but really, it is better to only stick to floating plants, and have only leaves at the bottom of the tank. Most plants will not survive in the correct blackwater conditions. He sent me a signed copy of his book, co-authored with Martin Hallmann. It's in German (which I can sometimes figure out because of some similarities to Dutch). It is most likely out of print now, but is certainly worth having, even if only for the photos: Prachtguramis, Juwelen des Urwalds in der Natur und im Aquarium. I was able to find this for you in English: Licorice gouramis - zxc.wiki

He had also advised me to only keep one pair together in a small aquarium with no other tankmates in order to sucessfully breed. I have a lot of correspondence from him as well as other members of the project, but you can visit the site and learn for yourself. The general consensus is that the Parosphromenus available commercially are almost always mis-labeled, over-medicated and generally weaker than the pure-bred strains from wild-caught Paros that are available from project members and other private breeders intent on preserving these endangered fish.

I agree with a previous poster here that you should first try a scaled-down attempt to keep these fish, let alone breed them, and then with a sort that is readily available (as opposed to a rarer sort, which you might not even be able to obtain). They are very challenging, due to their specialized habitat and foods.
They are truly beautiful little fish and many people keep more common Licorice Gouramis without resorting to extreme blackwater habitats.

You might not know, but there are a few hundred kinds of Betta fishes, many of which are also endangered for the same habitat loss as the Paros. You might consider looking into those. I have Horst Linke's massive book about them and there are also amazing fish in it that most aquarists know nothing about!

 

[MacZ]

I would also like to emphasise: Licorice gourami are the highest league of blackwater fishkeeping. In comparison breeding cardinal tetras is a walk in a park and they are considered one of the hardest from South America. South East Asian blackwater is a totally different biome in comparison.