(Urgent) Something is wiping out my tank

[Angelfish1]

Last night I put in lots of frozen blood worms (more than enough because I thought the algae eaters would slowly eat it all night) for my fish. I put it in after all the fish were asleep so that only the algae eaters and the kuhli loaches would eat it. The next morning I woke up to one kuhli loach dead. Then one of the kuhli loaches died during the day. I checked back tonight and one glofish tetra is super bloated and the others look like they’ve had a lot of food, however, I didn’t feed them today and all the blood worms were gone by morning so I don’t know why the tetra are bloated. I didn’t notice the tetra being bloated this morning. I bought these kuhli loaches on January 9th (Last Sunday). My other fish are all behaving normally (the angelfish and the plecos). Is this a disease from the LFS? Is the tetra pregnant? Are the fish dying because I overfed them??

The tank is cycled and has been running for 2 years.
Parameters:
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:20
pH:7.4/7.8

Tank stock:
-2 adult angelfish and 1 fry angelfish
-8 glofish tetra
-5 kuhli loaches (was 7 before 2 died)
-3 plecos

 

[Noroomforshoe]

Its hard to imagine that one day of overfeeding would cause any deaths. I want to call this a coincidence. I don't know how much food you actually added, I have heard "from mac zee on here" that those blood worms are raised in really gross water and it might not be best to add too much at a time. Consider doing a water change and water tests.

 

[MacZ]

Its hard to imagine that one day of overfeeding would cause any deaths. I want to call this a coincidence. I don't know how much food you actually added, I have heard "from mac zee on here" that those blood worms are raised in really gross water and it might not be best to add too much at a time. Consider doing a water change and water tests.

Can be a coincidence, but I would definitely not rule the food out.

Bloodworms (aka red mosquito larvae) are one of the most popular live and frozen foods because they can be produced cheaply en masse, due to their ability of living in the most polluted puddles and ponds.
Besides causing allergies in humans, they are often contaminated with many different things, especially fertilizer residue, heavy metals and poisons released from cyanobacteria.
If the cooling chain has been compromised (which can happen from time to time) also bacteria. (Easy way to check: Do the defrosted larvae smell fishy? Maybe a little metallic?)

Most reports of losses after feeding concern dwarf cichlids, especially Apistogramma, but also tetras and catfish. Loaches are new on the list (at least to me). There have been no problems reported with them.

 

[WRWAquarium]

I never feed bloodworm to my fish just because of what I hear online of the possible downsides.

On the flip side there are hobbyists who swear by them and I have to feed certain fish at work with them.

Maybe you got a bad batch.

 

[Thunder_o_b]

I will chime in here with my $.02 worth.

I am hesitant in recommending products unless I have had many years of direct experience using them. In this instance I can say that after many years of using San Francisco Bay blood worms and brine shrimp not once have I had problems. It is however a good idea to put the frozen food in a net and rinse the food off until it is no longer frozen. Kind of like with new fish. You do not add the water they came in to the (QT) aquarium.

 

[MacZ]

I will chime in here with my $.02 worth.

I am hesitant in recommending products unless I have had many years of direct experience using them. In this instance I can say that after many years of using San Francisco Bay blood worms and brine shrimp not once have I had problems. It is however a good idea to put the frozen food in a net and rinse the food off until it is no longer frozen. Kind of like with new fish. You do not add the water they came in to the (QT) aquarium.

I defrost and rinse, too. Good precaution.

 

[OutsideFoodBlob]

Were all 7 loaches bought and added to the tank January 9th? Or I guess question is how many days had they been in the tank before the first death occurred? Do you regularly feed bloodworms or is it a new addition to diet?
I’d just second anyone else who’s already said to monitor your fish and test water parameters independent of water changes. Maybe also consider adding an extra air stone since that’s quite a bump in fish at one time. Your parameters are good but the tank could be lower on oxygen especially overnight if you have live plants.
Really sorry to hear this happened and hope you are able to sort things out.

 

[Linda1234]

Its hard to imagine that one day of overfeeding would cause any deaths. I want to call this a coincidence. I don't know how much food you actually added, I have heard "from mac zee on here" that those blood worms are raised in really gross water and it might not be best to add too much at a time. Consider doing a water change and water tests.

I've had kuhli for years; you can't over feed them but they are very weak to bacteria infection. I've had more than one group die when something bad was introduced into the tank but given a good environment they can live forever.
--
Also there really is no reason to feed them bloodworms; they will eat pretty much anything - just make sure you feed them a balance meal (one that allows for both vegie and meat).

 

[Angelfish1]

Were all 7 loaches bought and added to the tank January 9th? Or I guess question is how many days had they been in the tank before the first death occurred? Do you regularly feed bloodworms or is it a new addition to diet?
I’d just second anyone else who’s already said to monitor your fish and test water parameters independent of water changes. Maybe also consider adding an extra air stone since that’s quite a bump in fish at one time. Your parameters are good but the tank could be lower on oxygen especially overnight if you have live plants.
Really sorry to hear this happened and hope you are able to sort things out.

I added 6 kuhli loaches because I only had one previously and they live in groups. I don’t usually feed bloodworms so that’s why I thought it might’ve been that. It’s been a week since I added the kuhlis an

I've had kuhli for years; you can't over feed them but they are very weak to bacteria infection. I've had more than one group die when something bad was introduced into the tank but given a good environment they can live forever.
--
Also there really is no reason to feed them bloodworms; they will eat pretty much anything - just make sure you feed them a balance meal (one that allows for both vegie and meat).

The blood worms were mainly for the plecos because I know they appreciate some meat in their diet. I think I’ll be more careful next time and rinse off the blood before I put the blood worms in the tank. I didn’t notice any red spots on the kuhli, thankfully the others are doing fine so far. Not sure what’s going on with the glofish tetra though, maybe it’s pregnant or got dropsy??

Edit:
Uhhh never mind what I said about the others being fine. There’s one out right now that’s laying upside down. It’s moving but doesn’t look too good. What should I treat the tank with?? I have cupramine and general fire on hand right now.

 

[Angelfish1]

Does anyone know what I should medicate the tank with? Should I treat it as bacterial or parasitic? My algae eater isn’t eating and is more lethargic than usual and one kuhli died today after spinning in circles and swimming upside down for a long time. I think the blood worm water may have caused this since all the bottom feeders seem to be getting sick.

Does anyone know what I should medicate the tank with? Should I treat it as bacterial or parasitic? My algae eater isn’t eating and is more lethargic than usual and one kuhli died today after spinning in circles and swimming upside down for a long time. I think the blood worm water may have caused this since all the bottom feeders seem to be getting sick.

I have general cure and Cupramine but I can buy bacterial medicine like

API E.M. Erythromycin if needed.​

 

[MacZ]

Does anyone know what I should medicate the tank with? Should I treat it as bacterial or parasitic?

We have no indication for either, no clear signs, nothing.

I have general cure and Cupramine

Won't help. The one is a broadband med, which includes ingredients you likely won't need and that only put additional strain on the fish, the other is indicated for outer parasites. ALso includes copper which is often a bad idea to use on scaleless fish like loaches and catfish.

API E.M. Erythromycin

Safe the money. That's a tank nuke. Alternatively you can just start euthanizing and setting the tank up anew from scratch.

What you do know, please, is: Fill out the emergency template (many questions not yet asked here in the thread and going them through separately takes too much time) and post some pictures of the tank and individual fish you are concerned about. Written descriptions do not help here anymore, neither do any speculations on your part, as we can all only work with the info you give and I like to stay objective.

Oh, and do some bigger waterchanges.

 

[Angelfish1]

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?
75 gallon community tank, 36 gallon shell dweller tank

How long has the tank been running?
75 has been running for 3-4 years and 36 for 2 years.

Does it have a filter?
Yes

Does it have a heater?
Yes

What is the water temperature?
76F in 75 gallon, 78-80F in 36 gallon

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
75-Gallon
-2 adult angelfish, 1 fry
-1 clown pleco
-1 adult female bristlenose pleco (male died recently)
-7 glofish tetra left (1 died today)
-3 kuhli loaches (4 died in past 2 weeks)

36 Gallon
-2 male, 1 female multi left (1 female died yesterday/today) + 10 fry multi

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
Every 3-4 weeks

How much of the water do you change?
20-25%

What do you use to treat your water?
API stress coat, API stress zhyme

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
I always vacuum the substrate

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
Yes
What do you use to test the water?
API master test kit

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20ppm
pH: 7.4-7.8 in 75 gallon, 8.2 in 36 gallon

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
Every 1-2 days

How much do you feed your fish?
Enough so that some food falls down to the bottom for the algae eaters and kuhli loaches

What brand of food do you feed your fish?
TetraMin tropical flakes, Omega One whole frozen blood worms, omega one freeze dried brine shrimp, api algae wafers, feed cucumber 2-3 times a week for bottom feeders

Do you feed frozen?
Rarely, about once a month

Do you feed freeze-dried foods?
Rarely, once or twice a month

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
I’ve had most for 1+ years. My most recent purchase was 6 new kuhli loaches in January, a week before symptoms appeared

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
January 17

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
-not eating, swimming in circles, bloated, crooked spine, swimming upside down,

Have you started any treatment for the illness?
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
No

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
-one kuhli loach before it died kept spinning in circles and trying to get something out of itself by putting its mouth near one spot on its body. It eventually started swimming upside down as well and died soon after.

-the glofish tetra was bloated and wasn’t eating for a while. I thought it was pregnant and one day it had a white tube coming out of it that went away. After the tube disappeared the tetra seemed thinner than before. However it was bloated again the next day and this cycle repeated. It died this morning.

-the female multi looked like she had a crooked spine and wasn’t swimming (she was resting a lot at the bottom). I put her in a breeder box in the 75 gallon because I was treating that with salt so thought she would benefit and she looked like she was just pregnant. She stayed in her shell like she was protecting fry so I thought I misinterpreted the situation and put her back in the 36-gallon thinking that she was just in the process of laying eggs. Then she disappeared for a few days and I found her dead body today.

-1 male multi isn’t eating flakes, he eats it and then spits it out. He’s been doing this for a few weeks, not sure if this is related to what’s been happening with the others.

-the male bristlenose pleco died on January 20th. Prior to this he wasn’t eating and kept farting to the surface to gulp air. I then treated the tank with salt in hopes that it would help him but he still died later that day.

-I’ve noticed that the algae eaters and the kuhli loaches come out less now that I’ve treated with salt

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
(Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

In summary, the deaths started a week after I bought 6 kuhli loaches to keep my other one company. I fed bloodworms (without washing them) at night for the bristlenose pleco and the kuhli loaches as a treat. The next day 2 kuhli loaches died and the glofish tetra was bloated. I did a 20% water change and treated the tank with a first dose of general cure. Then my bristlenose pleco died after acting weird for 2 days. I treated the tank with Morton salt (it was iodized but I’ve read lots of reports online saying that there is no concrete proof that iodized salt harms fish). I did 1 tbsp per 2 gallons (level 2 treatment as recommended by aquarium co op). After that there weren’t any deaths so I didn’t treat complete the dose of general cure. Today the bloated green glofish tetra died and the multi who was acting weird for a couple days (super lethargic) died. Also one kuhli loach that I’ve had for a long time also died without showing any noticeable symptoms before hand.

I think my problems originated from the blood worms, however I don’t know where to go from here. It can’t be a coincidence that all my fish just happened to die at the same time without having any problems like this before. Can anyone guide me on what i should be doing now to save the rest of my fish?

Also sorry for the late response, this week was finals week so I didn’t have a lot of time to respond and focus on this. I’ve been trying my best to help my fish out but don’t know if it’s been enough as they are still dying.

 

[MacZ]

Also sorry for the late response, this week was finals week so I didn’t have a lot of time to respond and focus on this. I’ve been trying my best to help my fish out but don’t know if it’s been enough as they are still dying.

Yeah... I mean I could tell you a lot of things now, but I think in combination with your statements about tank maintenance... How about leaving the aquarium hobby for the time being until after you graduate from school? I don't mean that personal but I think this would be best for all involved, fish and owner.

Because getting you set and ready to correctly and efficiently care for your fish would take up even more time that you don't seem to have.

 

[Angelfish1]

Yeah... I mean I could tell you a lot of things now, but I think in combination with your statements about tank maintenance... How about leaving the aquarium hobby for the time being until after you graduate from school? I don't mean that personal but I think this would be best for all involved, fish and owner.

Because getting you set and ready to correctly and efficiently care for your fish would take up even more time that you don't seem to have.

I get why you would think that I don’t have time with what I said but I assure you that I do my best to keep my fish happy and healthy and dedicate lots of time into taking care of them. Last week was finals week but I still called my local LFS for advice because they specialize in plecos. That is why I went ahead and dosed with salt. At that time I felt that I didn’t need to post here because I had just asked my LFS for advice. I also researched for a long time and read lots of posts before dosing with iodized salt. I did a water change last week before dosing general cure because I knew I wouldn’t have time this particular week.

I think I’m just trying to say that I spend a lot of time on better taking care of my fish, I do water changes, I take care of my live plants, I ask online when something is going wrong with my set up, and I’m always looking for ways to better take care of my fish online. Last night I stayed up until 2am and took 30-45 minutes to accurately fill out the emergency template because I knew that there was something wrong and that it was urgent. Could you please give me advice on what I should do to fix whatever is happening with the fish right now? Like a water change, dosing some medicine, or ideas on what could be happening instead of just telling me I should give up on the hobby that I’ve spent lots of time trying to do my best in? I’m always open to constructive criticism so if you think I’m doing something wrong or not doing something I’m supposed to be doing please tell me.

 

[Marlene327]

I'm just following and sent you a hug. I know you love your fish and this hurts. I personally don't know, but Mac knows so much about so many things, and so do others. I hope someone gives you help. He is in a different time zone than us. (I just realized I don't know where you are, shouldn't assume it's the US). Sometimes a lfs gives good advice and sometimes they are wrong. I don't know much about using iodized salt, but before I had cories and shrimp, I used aquarium salt for small problems. No idea if it's iodized or not. Water changes are often the best medicine for things without adding other medications.

Hang in there.

 

[KingOscar]

Asking someone to "leave the hobby" when they are here attempting to properly care for their fish seemed a bit harsh to me.

Yes, hang in there!