Pale Blue / White Bolivian

[MEWaters]

HI guys, new here
have had a 10 gallon betta tank, 40 gallon mbuna and just finished cycling a heavy planted 20 L
originally wanted GBR but decided on bolivians
LFS has some bolivians that are pale white / blue, no red fins, but the body of a B. They claim b/c thy are young
is this normal? every pic I have seen shows normal colors. no other places source them around me, and never ordered online.
thanks!

 

[CrazedHoosier]

HI guys, new here
have had a 10 gallon betta tank, 40 gallon mbuna and just finished cycling a heavy planted 20 L
originally wanted GBR but decided on bolivians
LFS has some bolivians that are pale white / blue, no red fins, but the body of a B. They claim b/c thy are young
is this normal? every pic I have seen shows normal colors. no other places source them around me, and never ordered online.
thanks!

I believe it is normal to an extent. If the ram is smaller than 1.5 inches, it’s a little more normal. A sick ram can be pale, though.

 

[MEWaters]

they're about an inch I would say
they are swimming fine, clear eyes, don't look thin or bloated
pretty interested in in you when you're at the tank
so you think they'd be g2g?

 

[CrazedHoosier]

they're about an inch I would say
they are swimming fine, clear eyes, don't look thin or bloated
pretty interested in in you when you're at the tank
so you think they'd be g2g?

Awe, so tiny. Yeah, I’d say it’s normal then.

 

[angelcraze]

Maybe you could snap a pic of them at the LFS? Agree though, if they are very young, they might not be expressing their full colors yet. Look really closely!

You can see the red fin edges. They must be really young rams.

 

[nikm128]

Pale grey or pale brown? Grey would be abnormal and brown would be alright.
Pics would be the best help. Feohw

 

[Feohw]

I would also say that pics would do some good if you are unsure. I always take note of the amount of fish that really look like Bolivians when young at the LFS, there are many. They should be fairly easily distinguishable though. If they are labeled as Bolivians then chances are they are. Bolivians don't always display their yellow and red colouration, even when adults. Stress can cause discolouration, as can age. Being only an inch and in a tank at the LFS, they won't look as many of the pics online will look.

Just google "Bolivian ram" and you will see a lot of variation. This one is quite pale. As is this one. They can be dark like this too.

 

[Elkwatcher]

Maybe you could snap a pic of them at the LFS? Agree though, if they are very young, they might not be expressing their full colors yet. Look really closely!

You can see the red fin edges. They must be really young rams.

Thanks for that link angelcraze, wondering about the next stages... they are cute as dickens at a few weeks fry age all 13 of them.

 

[coralbandit]

At 1 inch I would think they could be very pale ?
I have like 20+ juvis that are around that size and years of experience with rams ..
I see no color or indication of sexing ..They have awesome spot on dorsal fin but after that pretty plane .
The parents are good looking fish so expect mine just need more time ?

 

[angelcraze]

Thanks for that link angelcraze, wondering about the next stages... they are cute as dickens at a few weeks fry age all 13 of them.

View attachment 635980

Did the 17 week old link take you to the page? The person documented the Bolovian fry growth. Quite interesting!

I've only bred electric blue rams, their color took a while to show up, but I saw a hint of blue at less than 1 inch. They were bright blue at 1 inch I'd say. But coralbandit would know best since his specialty is breeding rams! I'll be interested in the pic!

Actually I found a vid of my EB fry at 15 weeks

 

[Elkwatcher]

Did the 17 week old link take you to the page? The person documented the Bolovian fry growth. Quite interesting!

I've only bred electric blue rams, their color took a while to show up, but I saw a hint of blue at less than 1 inch. They were bright blue at 1 inch I'd say. But coralbandit would know best since his specialty is breeding rams! I'll be interested in the pic!

Yep, it's a great link, thanks!

 

[MEWaters]

Maybe you could snap a pic of them at the LFS? Agree though, if they are very young, they might not be expressing their full colors yet. Look really closely!

You can see the red fin edges. They must be really young rams.

nice link, thanks
and thanks for all other replies - looks like Bolivians are loved around here, lol
phone is cheapo tracphone, I could draw better pics than it takes, will see if I can get one from my wife's
seems like they are all just really young.
Hopefully have some in the tank this weekend!

hey guys
found a semI local guy with some rams and grabbed two tonight!
they actually look like I expected lol
so far fun to watch, they will not leave each other - the one without the orange belly almost looks to be dancing with the other one

 

[CrazedHoosier]

hey guys
found a semI local guy with some rams and grabbed two tonight!
they actually look like I expected lol
so far fun to watch, they will not leave each other - the one without the orange belly almost looks to be dancing with the other one

Beautiful rams you picked up! My two rams hate each other, so you’re lucky yours are already enjoying each other’s company. I never seem to be able to successfully get a Bolivian pair...

 

[MEWaters]

I would also say that pics would do some good if you are unsure. I always take note of the amount of fish that really look like Bolivians when young at the LFS, there are many. They should be fairly easily distinguishable though. If they are labeled as Bolivians then chances are they are. Bolivians don't always display their yellow and red colouration, even when adults. Stress can cause discolouration, as can age. Being only an inch and in a tank at the LFS, they won't look as many of the pics online will look.

Just google "Bolivian ram" and you will see a lot of variation. This one is quite pale. As is this one. They can be dark like this too.

per your page, heres 5

 

[Feohw]

So the coloured one is male and the other looks to be female. She does have an odd tube though. Seems you'll have a pair then!

 

[MEWaters]

So the coloured one is male and the other looks to be female. She does have an odd tube though. Seems you'll have a pair then!

awesome, thank you!!
ever seen this before? will have to see if they breed and watch

 

[Feohw]

awesome, thank you!!
ever seen this before? will have to see if they breed and watch

No problem. I have seen some other odd tubes. One of mine has an oddish tube at times. Your female looks quite similar to one of my females in terms of body shape, the tube is just not as pronounced.

 

[MEWaters]

No problem. I have seen some other odd tubes. One of mine has an oddish tube at times. Your female looks quite similar to one of my females in terms of body shape, the tube is just not as pronounced.

hope to keep them happy and healthy
would you guess 3 months in age?
and stick to the omega flakes / bug bites after the mysis intro? or a larger pellet that won't sink in as much
use the swipe method for the flakes?

 

[CrazedHoosier]

hope to keep them happy and healthy
would you guess 3 months in age?
and stick to the omega flakes / bug bites after the mysis intro? or a larger pellet that won't sink in as much
use the swipe method for the flakes?

I would say a lot older than 3 months. Maybe around 1 year.

 

[MEWaters]

I would say a lot older than 3 months. Maybe around 1 year.

wow, lets color them up then!

 

[Feohw]

hope to keep them happy and healthy
would you guess 3 months in age?
and stick to the omega flakes / bug bites after the mysis intro? or a larger pellet that won't sink in as much
use the swipe method for the flakes?

They would be older than 3 months, they would still be quite small at that age. It would depend on how big they are, how many inches would you say? They tend to be sold around 5-6 months. Bug bites and flakes are good to feed. Mine will also eat hikarI sinking wafers, algae wafers, novotabs and NLS cichlid formula. The hikarI and NLS foods are most appreciated in my tank.

 

[jmaldo]

Agree with Feohw and coralbandit
I have raised hundreds. I usually sell them to the LFS's at around 5-6 months and to some members here. Not much coloring at the younger age. Also, I have found that the their coloring is affected by the substrate. Lighter the substrate the lighter coloring and visa-versa.

Good Luck!

 

[MEWaters]

They would be older than 3 months, they would still be quite small at that age. It would depend on how big they are, how many inches would you say? They tend to be sold around 5-6 months. Bug bites and flakes are good to feed. Mine will also eat hikarI sinking wafers, algae wafers, novotabs and NLS cichlid formula. The hikarI and NLS foods are most appreciated in my tank.

about 1 3/4"

 

[CrazedHoosier]

about 1 3/4"

Wow, really? They look so big to me.

 

[MEWaters]

Wow, really? They look so big to me.

1 an 3/4" not 3/4 to 1" if that's what you were thinking. Could be 2, best guess

 

[Feohw]

about 1 3/4"

So if they are around 1 1/4" at 4 months, then they would probably be in the 6-8 month range imo. If they breed soon, then they are definitely at least 8 months.

 

[MEWaters]

So if they are around 1 1/4" at 4 months, then they would probably be in the 6-8 month range imo. If they breed soon, then they are definitely at least 8 months.

the male today has been sitting in on spot, has joined female on a few occasions
still not noticing much eating from him - otherwise he looks OK; breathing, color, alertness..

met tails to heads and did a circle a couple times too?

 

[Feohw]

the male today has been sitting in on spot, has joined female on a few occasions
still not noticing much eating from him - otherwise he looks OK; breathing, color, alertness..

My rams tend to sit in one spot at times. Not on the actual substrate though. You could try getting a larger wafer food for him, that way it will be there longer and won't fall between the cracks. HikarI sinking wafers are a good one imo.

met tails to heads and did a circle a couple times too?

Mine do that when in territorial mode. They size each other up and fight it out until one slinks away. They also do it when courting. You will know if they are courting. There will be flaring of the gills, the male will try to keep the female in his area, he will block her and whip her with his tail. They will twitch/shudder next to one another. They will prepare a nesting site, should dig holes in the substrate but I doubt they can with that gravel. So if they also do that, prepare for a spawn at some point. If not, don't worry about it.

 

[MEWaters]

My rams tend to sit in one spot at times. Not on the actual substrate though. You could try getting a larger wafer food for him, that way it will be there longer and won't fall between the cracks. HikarI sinking wafers are a good one imo.

Mine do that when in territorial mode. They size each other up and fight it out until one slinks away. They also do it when courting. You will know if they are courting. There will be flaring of the gills, the male will try to keep the female in his area, he will block her and whip her with his tail. They will twitch/shudder next to one another. They will prepare a nesting site, should dig holes in the substrate but I doubt they can with that gravel. So if they also do that, prepare for a spawn at some point. If not, don't worry about it.

partial swap. Planning on more tn/tm
now female has claimed lol

 

[Feohw]

Looks good! They seem cozy together too. Looks promising! How are you liking the new substrate?

 

[MEWaters]

Looks good! They seem cozy together too. Looks promising! How are you liking the new substrate?

Female has claimed and male is now with the other gravelead:
holy cow I can’t win
and he is stills very PASSIVE eater
but I like it!

Feohw
I have an older 8k Aqueon light, do you think it’s too much for the rams?
all new lights don’t have any K amount. But also not noticing too much difference when I turn off the light.
I hate making TOO many changes

 

[Feohw]

Female has claimed and male is now with the other gravelead:
holy cow I can’t win
and he is stills very PASSIVE eater
but I like it!

They do tend to claim territories like that. Mine have their own areas of the tank. As long as he's getting something to eat anyway. Still looking healthy from what I can see.

Feohw
I have an older 8k Aqueon light, do you think it’s too much for the rams?
all new lights don’t have any K amount. But also not noticing too much difference when I turn off the light.
I hate making TOO many changes

I don't believe it would be a problem. I doubt you would need to change that too. Mine lists itself as 3000-25000k. So its "very specific."

 

[coralbandit]

Until I added all my juvis the 5 adults I have that have spawned where very reluctant eaters in front of me ?
I have several other fish [some over a year with me ] that I swear don't eat what I feed them !
Even with company in the form of 4 small angels the rams were nervous ..
I added my 25+ juvis to their tank and it was like a light switch went off!
Sometimes fish are just nervous and take a long time to get used to us and their tank ..
8k may be washing out color for you ? the higher the K the more blue white [not red] things look .
Most lights today strive for 6500K but many report 5000 -7000 to be closest to natural daylight ..
I see no problem with 8k..I have run tanks before on 10,000k..Just watch for algae ..

 

[MEWaters]

They do tend to claim territories like that. Mine have their own areas of the tank. As long as he's getting something to eat anyway. Still looking healthy from what I can see.

I don't believe it would be a problem. I doubt you would need to change that too. Mine lists itself as 3000-25000k. So its "very specific."

I am watching for sunken belly (assume would be sign of not eating?) I have had in tank since Friday 1700 so assuming he would be showing sigs by now?
I know he is sometimes scraping the substrate, as long as the wife is happy right? Lol

Yea, the K seems to be quite inconsistent. Ill lean to not changing too many things at once and see how they fare. Breathing and all else is still fine

Until I added all my juvis the 5 adults I have that have spawned where very reluctant eaters in front of me ?
I have several other fish [some over a year with me ] that I swear don't eat what I feed them !
Even with company in the form of 4 small angels the rams were nervous ..
I added my 25+ juvis to their tank and it was like a light switch went off!
Sometimes fish are just nervous and take a long time to get used to us and their tank ..
8k may be washing out color for you ? the higher the K the more blue white [not red] things look .
Most lights today strive for 6500K but many report 5000 -7000 to be closest to natural daylight ..
I see no problem with 8k..I have run tanks before on 10,000k..Just watch for algae ..

its an older used tank, edges are def dimming, but will watch out.
I returned my “plant light” cause it was too red, didn’t have my rams in there at the time though, so may want them back !

 

[jmaldo]

MEWaters
Good Looking Bolivians.

Sometimes fish are just nervous and take a long time to get used to us and their tank ..

Agree, my first pair took almost 3 weeks to finally stop swimming and hiding when I approached the tank. They finally realized its safe and he feeds us. Then they spawned. Geez, it feels like so long ago when I stumbled into breeding. You can check out a thread I started, lots of info.
I Have Wigglers Now Fry! Again Ram Cichlid - Ram Cichlid 318008
You'll know when they are getting ready to spawn, when you start seeing them cleaning and doing some re-decorating and protecting a spot. Mine like to lay eggs on a flat surface, only once did they lay on a leaf. Then they will start digging pits/craters. They will take mouthfuls of the substrate and then spit it out, they even bulldoze it with their bodies.

Good Luck!

 

[MEWaters]

hey guys, so the male I was worried about is still not really doing much
not shy or skittish, just isn't swimming much and staying in one corner
was finally able to catch him pooping and this is it... has been sticking out for over an hour. Does he have parasites or something else going on?

 

[Feohw]

hey guys, so the male I was worried about is still not really doing much
not shy or skittish, just isn't swimming much and staying in one corner
was finally able to catch him pooping and this is it... has been sticking out for over an hour. Does he have parasites or something else going on?
View attachment 640561

I would say parasites. Sunken belly and white, stringy poo = parasites to me. I have no experience with them myself. I would dose with general cure.

 

[MEWaters]

I would say parasites. Sunken belly and white, stringy poo = parasites to me. I have no experience with them myself. I would dose with general cure.

keep him in there or move to 15 gallon with 3 mollies?

 

[Feohw]

keep him in there or move to 15 gallon with 3 mollies?

I would keep him there personally. How's the other ram doing?

 

[MEWaters]

I would keep him there personally. How's the other ram doing?

she's doing great. Colored up, grazing all day. Almost seems annoyed with the male like he's not meeting her needs, lol

coralbandit

 

[coralbandit]

Treat in tank ,don't move ..Looks to be guarding the corner in pic ..
I am willing to bet where eggs will get laid if they do ever spawn !

 

[MEWaters]

Treat in tank ,don't move ..Looks to be guarding the corner in pic ..
I am willing to bet where eggs will get laid if they do ever spawn !

W gen cure as recommended? picking stuff up today

 

[coralbandit]

Yes to the GC unless you can find and afford separate prazI and metro ..
They are both expensive meds and not always carried ..
I believe HikarI makes PrazI that many stores carry but not clear on metro .
I order stuff online ...

 

[angelcraze]

W gen cure as recommended? picking stuff up today

I would feed/ dose the GC, and then a dewormer if he doesn't improve in case it is nematodes.

 

[MEWaters]

Yes to the GC unless you can find and afford separate prazI and metro ..
They are both expensive meds and not always carried ..
I believe HikarI makes PrazI that many stores carry but not clear on metro .
I order stuff online ...

Clearly he’s had t before I got him two and a half weeks ago. Wait and order online or use GC today

 

[coralbandit]

Amazon delivers fast ..Others will be slow this week possibly ..Shipping is about to get real messy until the end of year ..
All treatments work best when applied as soon as possible ...

 

[MEWaters]

yes I know ASAP. I would rather treat less and most effective as well as cheapest overall. This is new territory for me. like I said, he’s been acting this way since day 1 so I know it’s not brand new. Would you use GC today or wait til at least the 5th via online. I am not going to use GC and order online, unless the GC doesn’t work.

 

[angelcraze]

yes I know ASAP. I would rather treat less and most effective as well as cheapest overall. This is new territory for me. like I said, he’s been acting this way since day 1 so I know it’s not brand new. Would you use GC today or wait til at least the 5th via online. I am not going to use GC and order online, unless the GC doesn’t work.

I know you are not asking me, but if it was me, I would feed Metro and dose Levamisole (separately). I just haven't seen a cestode or trematode (what PrazI treats) cause intestinal damage. Just my experience and two cents.

 

[MEWaters]

I just picked up some prazI pro heading home to dose. Wish me luck. Thanks guys, will update

 

[coralbandit]

PrazI pro ,HikarI ?
Nice make sure to really shake it up .