Opinions on this food for tetras

[Nothing76]

Sorry, I'm new here and I want to ask a question about food for tetras. The search function doesn't yield any results about the specific food I was told to get at my LFS. Is it more appropriate to start a brand new thread or reply to an existing thread that has been inactive for months to years?

 

[A201]

What food was suggested?
Just about any name brand commercial flake food or small grain pellet is fine for Tetras of any type.

 

[Nothing76]

What food was suggested?
Just about any name brand commercial flake food or small grain pellet is fine for Tetras of any type.

This guy sold me Xtreme Aquatic Foods Beef Heart Flakes, and I just can't find much about this formula. I'm ready to return it but I wanted to see if anyone had used it for their tetras.

edit - I'm still cycling my tank, so I do not have any fish yet.

 

[A201]

Beef heart is often recommended for Discus. Lots of pros & cons regarding health benefits.
Never heard of beef heart flakes.
New Life Spectrum, Omega One & Tetra foods are readily available foods. Really no reason to buy a specialty food to maintain optimal health for Tetras.

 

[Fishfur]

Very few freshwater fish routinely eat any sort of mammal - for that matter, very few marine fish do so. Mammals are not so commonly found in water though fish will certainly scavenge a dead one that ends up where they can get at it.

But mammal is not a regular dietary item for the majority of fish and the fats in beef are not the same as those found in insects, crustaceans, other fish or plants either.

Many tetra species eat insects and/or crustaceans & other inverts (worms, snails, assorted protozoa) so I very much believe that the best food for them will be based on insect (usually Soldier fly larvae) or crustacean (krill or shrimp) protein, not a large mammal’s heart.

Pelleted foods are better than flakes because they lose fewer nutrients to the water than flakes do. Flakes lose a lot of water soluble nutrients to water almost the instant they hit the water.

 

[Nothing76]

Beef heart is often recommended for Discus. Lots of pros & cons regarding health benefits.
Never heard of beef heart flakes.
New Life Spectrum, Omega One & Tetra foods are readily available foods. Really no reason to buy a specialty food to maintain optimal health for Tetras.

Thank you! I figured the overall lack of praise I found during my searches meant that this was not the best choice. I appreciate your help very much.

Very few freshwater fish routinely eat any sort of mammal - for that matter, very few marine fish do so. Mammals are not so commonly found on water. They will certainly scavenge a dead one that ends up where they can get at it but mammal is not a regular dietary item for the majority of fish and the fats in beef are not the sandbags those found in insects, crustaceans, other fish or plants either.

Many tetra species eat insects and/or crustaceans & other inverts (worms, Protozoa) so I very much believe that the best food for them will be based on insect (usually Soldier fly larvae) or crustacean (krill) protein, not a large mammal’s heart.

Pelleted foods are better than flakes because they lose fewer nutrients to the water than flakes do. Flakes lose a lot of water soluble nutrients to water almost the instant they hit the water.

Thank you! This tells me all I need to know. I will be returning this food and going with something else when I finally get my tank ready for some tetras. Appreciate you!!

 

[Noroomforshoe]

You don't need beef heart for tetras. But you should get something good. The ingredients of this food are very poor. Please learn to look at the first 5 ingredients of pet foods. These are the ingredients of the Extreme beef heart flakes.

Fish Meal, Soy Protein Concentrate, Wheat Starch, Wheat Flour, Shrimp Meal, Grain Distillers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Algae Meal-Dried (Spirulina)

Fish meal is ok, soy protein is a filler, wheat starch is a filler, wheat flower is a filler, shrimp meal is ok, but this ingredient should be higher up the list. grain and yeast, both fillers, krill meal great, but how much are the really adding at this point?If you didnt know, the things are listed by the higest weight, then down to the smallest weight.

I suggest ultra fresh, bug bites, or new life spectrum pellets, and it is good to have a variety!

 

[Fishfur]

You don't need beef heart for tetras. But you should get something good. The ingredients of this food are very poor. Please learn to look at the first 5 ingredients of pet foods. These are the ingredients of the Extreme beef heart flakes.

Fish Meal, Soy Protein Concentrate, Wheat Starch, Wheat Flour, Shrimp Meal, Grain Distillers Dried Yeast, Krill Meal, Fish Oil, Soy Lecithin, Algae Meal-Dried (Spirulina)

Fish meal is ok, soy protein is a filler, wheat starch is a filler, wheat flower is a filler, shrimp meal is ok, but this ingredient should be higher up the list. grain and yeast, both fillers, krill meal great, but how much are the really adding at this point?If you didnt know, the things are listed by the higest weight, then down to the smallest weight.

I suggest ultra fresh, bug bites, or new life spectrum pellets, and it is good to have a variety!

Just curious but have you checked into some of those ingredients you think are fillers?

Grain distillers dried yeast (aka brewers dried yeast) is almost 50% protein and an excellent source of numerous important minerals and B vitamins. It isn’t filler - it isn’t even particularly cheap. It may not be an ideal ingredient for fish but it isn’t junk either.
Real junk is stuff like DBP - dried bakery product. Found in some of Hikari’s offerings. Made up of unsold cake (icing and all), bread, doughnuts and anything else you’d get from a bakery, heat dried and ground to powder. Now that is total junk and a filler if ever there was one. It should be burned or composted, but profit rules.

Soy protein concentrate is a complete protein and is close to 2/3 protein by weight with some carbs. It isn’t filler either though it IS much cheaper than animal based protein and not necessarily the best protein source for carnivores. For omnivores it’s not terrible. For carnivores it’s not truly terrible either but it’s a cheap substitute for insect or seafood protein. It is still USABLE to the fish!so I wouldn’t call it filler - I would call it cheap.

The wheat starch listed in 3rd place is probably filler but also serves as a binder. No dry food can be made without a certain proportion of carbs and the starch is all carbs.
Carbs must be included in sufficient quantities to make the dough extrudable and give it a long shelf life so you have to accept it being there, but definitely NOT in 3rd place on the list!
Wheat flour is commonly used as a binder but does offer some nutrients - it isn’t pure carbs. It’s just overkill in this particular food to have both starch and flour.

Fish meal is a highly variable ingredient but it looks good in first place on the list. Unfortunately it can be anything from skins, fins & bones and nothing else to speak of to half decent with muscle meat as well but it isn’t remotely as valuable as a WHOLE fish meal. Whole fish meal with a named species is really what you want to see listed first or soldier fly larvae or possibly whole krill meal. There is no comparison worth making between ‘fish meal’ and ANY whole fish meal.

It isn’t just about the names of the ingredients on those lists - you also need to know what those names really mean and the differences between feed grade (all of these ingredients are feed grade ) and the stuff we eat because there can be a world of difference between wheat flour for human consumption and feed grade wheat flour or any other feed grade ingredient.

 

[GlennO]

A bit disingenuous to call it beef heart flakes when beef heart is the 12th ingredient on the list. The amount included would be miniscule.

Protein is high at 46% but I agree the ingredients are nothing special. Far from the worst though. If you've already bought it I would be inclined to use it up.

 

[Noroomforshoe]

Just curious but have you checked into some of those ingredients you think are fillers?

Grain distillers dried yeast (aka brewers dried yeast) is almost 50% protein and an excellent source of numerous important minerals and B vitamins. It isn’t filler - it isn’t even particularly cheap. It may not be an ideal ingredient for fish but it isn’t junk either.
Real junk is stuff like DBP - dried bakery product. Found in some of Hikari’s offerings. Made up of unsold cake (icing and all), bread, doughnuts and anything else you’d get from a bakery, heat dried and ground to powder. Now that is total junk and a filler if ever there was one. It should be burned or composted, but profit rules.

ok, guess ive got more research to do. sorry, thanks.

 

[Nothing76]

Just curious but have you checked into some of those ingredients you think are fillers?

Grain distillers dried yeast (aka brewers dried yeast) is almost 50% protein and an excellent source of numerous important minerals and B vitamins. It isn’t filler - it isn’t even particularly cheap. It may not be an ideal ingredient for fish but it isn’t junk either.
Real junk is stuff like DBP - dried bakery product. Found in some of Hikari’s offerings. Made up of unsold cake (icing and all), bread, doughnuts and anything else you’d get from a bakery, heat dried and ground to powder. Now that is total junk and a filler if ever there was one. It should be burned or composted, but profit rules.

Soy protein concentrate is a complete protein and is close to 2/3 protein by weight with some carbs. It isn’t filler either though it IS much cheaper than animal based protein and not necessarily the best protein source for carnivores. For omnivores it’s not terrible. For carnivores it’s not truly terrible either but it’s a cheap substitute for insect or seafood protein. It is still USABLE to the fish!so I wouldn’t call it filler - I would call it cheap.

The wheat starch listed in 3rd place is probably filler but also serves as a binder. No dry food can be made without a certain proportion of carbs and the starch is all carbs.
Carbs must be included in sufficient quantities to make the dough extrudable and give it a long shelf life so you have to accept it being there, but definitely NOT in 3rd place on the list!
Wheat flour is commonly used as a binder but does offer some nutrients - it isn’t pure carbs. It’s just overkill in this particular food to have both starch and flour.

Fish meal is a highly variable ingredient but it looks good in first place on the list. Unfortunately it can be anything from skins, fins & bones and nothing else to speak of to half decent with muscle meat as well but it isn’t remotely as valuable as a WHOLE fish meal. Whole fish meal with a named species is really what you want to see listed first or soldier fly larvae or possibly whole krill meal. There is no comparison worth making between ‘fish meal’ and ANY whole fish meal.

It isn’t just about the names of the ingredients on those lists - you also need to know what those names really mean and the differences between feed grade (all of these ingredients are feed grade ) and the stuff we eat because there can be a world of difference between wheat flour for human consumption and feed grade wheat flour or any other feed grade ingredient.

Love the detailed breakdown. I did notice the lack of "real" ingredients once I got it home.

But you reminded me of another question I have! I keep Veiled Chameleons and sometimes feed them live black soldier fly larvae. Is there any reason I could not also feed these to my betta? Probably not more than one because of size, but I have not been able to find much information about whether this would be safe or not. I'm just insanely curious about it.

 

[Rummynose27]

There are foods using black soldier fly larvae, so I think they would definitely be safe to feed.

 

[SparkyJones]

That food, the Xtreme Aquatic Foods Beef Heart Flakes, is 46% protein, if it's Neon Tetras or Cardinals lets say for instance, you'll wind up with fat fishwith a diet like this as a staple food. neons or Cardinals will have a better conversion ratio, of of a 25-35% protein. something as high as 40% for conditioning to spawn.

The Xtreme Aquatic Foods Beef Heart Flakes, also has about 10% fat. it's not necessarily a bad thing, but again it's a weight gainer.

this kind of food would be more suited for like Cichlids, Barbs. wider bodied more robust fish. For tetras an example would be like exodons where they are all "go go go" and you dont' want them nipping on everyone else and each other all the time but do want them wide bodied and robust and never hungry.

A lot of the tetras are omnivores, or insectivores, kind of small or slender, not much girth to them. for most tetras, something with 25-35% protein, 5-10% fat, low to no carbohydrates (0-5%), for fillers, spinach, spirulina, algae.
If it has insect proteins, or plant proteins in the composition it's so much better than fish proteins, or mammal proteins. nutrient composition, the vitamins and minerals and fatty acids are important too, what you'd want to avoid is flours, and meals in the ingredients, this is all just fillers and low quality fish or shrimp scraps. Size of mouth can aid in figuring out what they would or wouldn't eat really, many tetras, it's small things. algae, daphina, brine shrimp, scuds, copepods, the little guys that are eating algaes also, so it's sort of a "gut load" for the greens/plant matter.

BUT, there are reasons to feed the kind of food that's high in protein and fats. lets say you have a lot of neon tetras, a big school. Maybe not everyone gets to eat on every feeding, some are getting out competed at times, this higher protein and fat content tends to keep everyone heavier and more robust and when missing meals, they aren't dropping like flies. the "extra" that they carry in body mass supports their immune system, and gets them over "dry spells" of food where they could be out competed at times and declining in health from poor nutrition.

That food would also have it's uses for like conditioning females for spawning, where you'd want to get them plumped up for spawning.

It's not "Horrible", just if used regularly as a staple food, it's going to create fat fish especially out of the males.

And yes, the BSFL would be a good source of protein for all your fish, however I think you'd need to grind them up for the fish if they are betta and tetras, maybe working it into a home made fish food with a gel product. I mean, you can do crickets, grasshoppers, nightcrawlers, mayflies. there a whole bunch of insects you can buy or collect up and grind up and freeze in cubes (with tank water) or go the gel route. the limitation on the insects is size of them and the fishes mouths really, but you can do quite a lot with a food processor or blender to break whatever insects you have down into bite sized bits. Collecting insects has it's risk of contaminants like pollution or poisons,from the environment, so just use your discretion on that. if you have pest control outside, it's a no, if the area doesn't look healthy, it's a no. but there's a lot of free bugs out there for fish to eat was the point, and bugs are generally cheap feeders at the pet stores also.

I know lightning bugs are toxic to fish, not sure what else might be, but for sure they are a no-no, there's also some that just don't taste good also.
Some indoor bugs, people feed to fish or the fish just encounter them depending on how bad the problem is, I'd avoid the indoor bugs, unless you know you don't have poisons down and around, and haven't had any used int he nooks and crannies around the house in a really long time. otherwise yeah, fish eat bugs in the wild, bigger bugs get eaten by bigger fish, parts come off in that, that smaller fish can eat and they get the scraps from it foraging.. natural process.

Anyways, there's some info on here about feeding all kinds of things to fish, how to farm them also, how to make your own fish foods, plus the internet is full of information outside of this website. that food you got isn't a bad thing necessarily, I'm sure the store was thinking how hard it is to keep tetras alive in numbers, and how much to feed, and figured fat fish is better than starving fish.

 

[briangcc1997]

My tetras get Xtreme Community Crave flake food...and if they scrounge the bottom they may end up with either Xtreme Cichlid Peewee or Xtreme Nice (depending on what I have on hand).

Beef Heart is a new one on me, haven't really looked into it. I do keep cichlids but mine are thriving on Community Crave, Cichlid Peewee/Nice, and Big Fella.

 

[Fishfur]

Love the detailed breakdown. I did notice the lack of "real" ingredients once I got it home.

But you reminded me of another question I have! I keep Veiled Chameleons and sometimes feed them live black soldier fly larvae. Is there any reason I could not also feed these to my betta? Probably not more than one because of size, but I have not been able to find much information about whether this would be safe or not. I'm just insanely curious about it.

If the larvae were small enough, the betta might be fine eating them - they certainly like fruit fly larvae. But I think fly maggots are softer bodied than soldier fly larvae and the SF larvae are far too big.

The fish can eat adult gammarus, fruit fly larvae, blackworms (Lumbriculus variegatus) & white worms which are similarly sized and other prey in this size range.

ok, guess ive got more research to do. sorry, thanks.

There is a lot to learn - if we were gifted with sufficient longevity (multiple lifetimes rather than just one) I think I might have wanted to get a degree in animal nutrition - I had classes in it pertaining to horses while in college with our instructor having a degree in animal nutrition.

It gave me the basics so later on when I got very interested in nutrition for fish and my beloved cats I at least knew what to look at and what some of common terms that are used actually meant.