Lethargic fish/Old tank syndrome?

[sparklepuff]

Hello all.

Seeking advice. Due to struggling with my bipolar disorder for the last 3 or so months, I must admit that I did not keep up with the maintenance of my tank very well (semi-regular water changes, slacking on them when the water test readings were good). There was quite a bit of algae growth (no ammonia spikes, thankfully...I performed semi-regular testing and had one of those SeaChem monitors in the tank). The day before yesterday I decided to buy a glass cleaner to scrape up the algae and do a deep clean of the gravel. Ended up doing probably a 75% water change (there was just so much debris that had been hiding in the gravel, it was disgusting).

Today I was thinking of doing a 25% change, maybe trying to vacuum gravel and rinse of brown gunk from filter media (assuming it has nitrates in it). But not sure. I ordered a real moss ball for him as well.

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 5 gallon
How long has the tank been running? 5 months
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 80 F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? One betta

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Every other week. See description.
How much of the water do you change? ~25-50%
What do you use to treat your water? SeaChem Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Yes

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? No
What do you use to test the water? API Easy Strips
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20-40 (hard to read)
pH: 6.2-6.8
(hard to read, but on stripalkalinity is low)

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? 1x day
How much do you feed your fish? 3-4 pellets
What brand of food do you feed your fish?Omega One Color Mini Pellets
Do you feed frozen? No
Do you feed freeze-dried foods? Yes, blood worms and sometimes brine shrimp

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 5 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 3 days ago for lethargy, fin biting for about 2 months
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Lethargy (sitting on bottom of tank), fins are progressively in shreds (very "even"/C-shaped edges & no whiteness...does not look like fin rot at all)
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Large water change two days ago, had tried indian almond leaves & Seachem StressGuard for fins previously.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? Just his fins

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
(Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

After the water change, my nitrates went up to about 80-100 ppm afterwards, and I've noticed my betta Stitch is sluggish. He's still moving around and was excited to eat his food today, but goes back down to sit on the bottom usually (not laying down). I put a piece of nitrate removing sponge in the filter to buy some time while I figure out what to do next, and the nitrate level was actually 20 this morning, now look to be creeping towards 40 (the strips are hard to read and I need to go get a new master test kit today to be sure). He has been biting his fins for a few months, which I presume is due to the water quality not being the best (the tank was never visibly dirty, nor was there a spike in ammonia/etc. as aforementioned...but it still was not right of me to neglect it/him.)

I'm supposed to go home to the west coast for Christmas on 12/17 (I'm in university) and am worried about this situation not resolving in time. I have a pet sitter coming who will be feeding him every 2 days, and can brief her on what to do, but want to have a plan/do all I can before I go. Would love any advice you guys might have.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I would do small water changes every other day (something like 10 to 20%). It won't take a long time or be hard to do, so even your fish sitter should be able to do this. Just put some water aside in a decent sized bucket, and the sitter can use a cup to take out a few cups from the tank, and then add the new. Treat the water that you put aside with Prime.

Clean water really helps with fin issues. Adding Indian almond leaves could help some if you don't currently have any in the tank. The StressGuard will be helpful as well. You could treat the water that you set aside with StressGuard, too.

Since it will be really small amounts of water, it shouldn't affect the temp of the tank that much (thinking about when you leave). Keep the lights off as much as possible.

I hope this helps, and I hope the betta gets better!!!

 

[Blacksheep1]

Firstly , I hope you’re doing okay and secondly good for you for even getting on top of your tank. I don’t think you have old tank syndrome , I just think you had a build up , which you’ve dealt with most of it . I agree with the above of keeping up with smaller but much more regular changes , the bucket ready is a good idea as it’ll stop any risk of mis calculating anything and make it easy to do.
Don’t be too hard on yourself , you kept up with testing and didn’t fully stop water changes and now you’re doing your best to make sure your fish is looked after. What about writing a list for your fish keeper on how much to feed ( be strict !) and how much to change etc ?

enjoy visiting your family and enjoy your holidays

 

[KingOscar]

Yes, small regular water changes is a great plan. You might also consider laying out the proper amount of food in a container like a daily pill sorter. This would make it nearly impossible to over feed.

 

[Stripedbass]

Put your servings of food in a daily pill holder. You can get them from the dollar store for super cheap. My brother in law ( Total idiot) feeds 5 of my tanks with different diets in each with this method with no problems. Depending on how long you are gone I would just do a normal water change before you leave and one as soon as you get back. Unless your betta quits eating or shows physical abnormalities I would just keep doing what you are doing. Changing too much at once can cause them even more stress. I hope you the best!

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

KH was probably depleted...I'm not sure if you can reverse what was done but next time a big water change is done on an unmaintained tank it is better to drip the water back in.

 

[Fishbish1112]

Hi sparklepuff! I’m sending good vibes your way and have some suggestions for you. I like what rose of Sharon said about doing 10-20% water changes daily for a few days. That’s where I would start and it may be the only thing you need to do to fix your problem. I struggle with bipolar depression myself so I know how hard it is to be consistent. But your best is enough. With a 5 gal tank, I would say water changes once a week would be desirable. Because you have a very small tank, water parameters will change more drastically than in a bigger tank so more frequent WCs are required to keep things consistent. There are some things you can do to decrease the urgency of weekly water changes and will add some security when being consistent just isn’t possible for you. Adding plants will help decrease ammonia levels (like the moss ball you got). Also switching to sand will make your life soo much easier as far as cleaning the substrate goes. Waste will stay on surface not sink into bottom and hide, creating toxins. There’s also this product called stress zyme that’s helps condition the water and you could use along with your water changes. I hope I’ve not been too overwhelming here, just hoping to help. I hope your little guy perks up after some water changes these upcoming days. Keep us posted.

 

[sparklepuff]

Thank you for your input everyone. I did about a 20% change today (accidentally took a bit more out than I planned, but I didn't do a change yesterday so thankfully it wasn't a back to back shock), vacuumed some visible debris from the gravel and rinsed the brown gunk off of the filter media. The nitrate still looks to be sticking around 20, but the strip is less bright pink than before. I will keep up the partial changes over the next few days to see what happens.

I would do small water changes every other day (something like 10 to 20%). It won't take a long time or be hard to do, so even your fish sitter should be able to do this. Just put some water aside in a decent sized bucket, and the sitter can use a cup to take out a few cups from the tank, and then add the new. Treat the water that you put aside with Prime.

Clean water really helps with fin issues. Adding Indian almond leaves could help some if you don't currently have any in the tank. The StressGuard will be helpful as well. You could treat the water that you set aside with StressGuard, too.

Since it will be really small amounts of water, it shouldn't affect the temp of the tank that much (thinking about when you leave). Keep the lights off as much as possible.

I hope this helps, and I hope the betta gets better!!!

Thank you so much. I started writing out some instructions for the sitter already. I do worry about leaving water standing, but I think if I cover it it should be fine?

Hi sparklepuff! I’m sending good vibes your way and have some suggestions for you. I like what rose of Sharon said about doing 10-20% water changes daily for a few days. That’s where I would start and it may be the only thing you need to do to fix your problem. I struggle with bipolar depression myself so I know how hard it is to be consistent. But your best is enough. With a 5 gal tank, I would say water changes once a week would be desirable. Because you have a very small tank, water parameters will change more drastically than in a bigger tank so more frequent WCs are required to keep things consistent. There are some things you can do to decrease the urgency of weekly water changes and will add some security when being consistent just isn’t possible for you. Adding plants will help decrease ammonia levels (like the moss ball you got). Also switching to sand will make your life soo much easier as far as cleaning the substrate goes. Waste will stay on surface not sink into bottom and hide, creating toxins. There’s also this product called stress zyme that’s helps condition the water and you could use along with your water changes. I hope I’ve not been too overwhelming here, just hoping to help. I hope your little guy perks up after some water changes these upcoming days. Keep us posted.

Thank you for your kind words, I hope that you are in a good place also. Caring for my fish has helped my depression in a lot of ways, but sometimes it is just too hard to get out of bed. I definitely will be adding live plants once I am back from the holidays. I've wanted to for a while but am terrified of snails.

KH was probably depleted...I'm not sure if you can reverse what was done but next time a big water change is done on an unmaintained tank it is better to drip the water back in.

That makes sense. I do have a buffering salt product that I got that can hopefully address pH issues if that becomes more of an issue. Thankfully the pH hasn't dropped much yet.

Put your servings of food in a daily pill holder. You can get them from the dollar store for super cheap. My brother in law ( Total idiot) feeds 5 of my tanks with different diets in each with this method with no problems. Depending on how long you are gone I would just do a normal water change before you leave and one as soon as you get back. Unless your betta quits eating or shows physical abnormalities I would just keep doing what you are doing. Changing too much at once can cause them even more stress. I hope you the best!

Will be doing this, thank you!

Firstly , I hope you’re doing okay and secondly good for you for even getting on top of your tank. I don’t think you have old tank syndrome , I just think you had a build up , which you’ve dealt with most of it . I agree with the above of keeping up with smaller but much more regular changes , the bucket ready is a good idea as it’ll stop any risk of mis calculating anything and make it easy to do.
Don’t be too hard on yourself , you kept up with testing and didn’t fully stop water changes and now you’re doing your best to make sure your fish is looked after. What about writing a list for your fish keeper on how much to feed ( be strict !) and how much to change etc ?

enjoy visiting your family and enjoy your holidays

Thank you so much. Taking care of fish can help give us a sense of purpose, but sometimes my depression is just too overpowering and I can't even care for myself, really. But now that I'm well enough I want to help my little guy as much as I can. It's impressive how resilient bettas can be.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

I have found bettas to be really great therapy. There's something about their alertness, attitudes, and personailities that make them different compared to many other fish, in my opinion. And they don't need a huge living space in order to thrive. Having a living creature that needs you does help.

If you cover the water/bucket with a clean towell, it should be fine.

I hope you have a wonderful Christmas!!!

 

[sparklepuff]

So good & bad news.
I got my hands a on a new freshwaster master test kit and my nitrate is 0 (thought it's 20 on the strips). Nitrite also 0. Ammonia is 0.25 (liquid), though I read if you use Prime this particularly kit gives a false positive unless you wait 24 hours (and it's 0 on my in-tank meter). pH is about 7.0-7.5, so I added some indian almond leaves. He's coming up for food or if he hears me talking, but then just goes back down. I don't know if I should think about antibiotics or other meds yet. I had a fish pass away before due to what I think was overmedicating them. Plus I worry about my filter media. *sigh*

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Do you see anything else going on with Stitch other than lethargy/fin problems and not wanting to eat? Anything on his body? Bloat? Can you post a pic?

The sinking makes me think of some type of issue with his swim bladder, one that is not related to constipation. They can sometimes have an internal injury. I had a betta with a swim bladder issue that he lived with for over a year. He did not have buoyancy, and no med could help. I just kept his water level low, and was patient when feeding him. I also gave him plenty of places to lay at the top of the tank ( those betta hammocks).

I wouldn't just start medicating without knowing what is going on with him. When I was new to keeping bettas, I did the same thing and over-medicated. If you want to start with something, I would start with a little aquarium salt. It's cheap and easy to get. Just follow the directions on the package.

I have issues with my betta not wanting to eat some times, too, for no apparent reason.

You could try soaking his food in some garlic juice. That is what is recommended for picky eaters, and it helps to boost the immune system.

 

[sparklepuff]

Do you see anything else going on with Stitch other than lethargy/fin problems and not wanting to eat? Anything on his body? Bloat? Can you post a pic?

The sinking makes me think of some type of issue with his swim bladder, one that is not related to constipation. They can sometimes have an internal injury. I had a betta with a swim bladder issue that he lived with for over a year. He did not have buoyancy, and no med could help. I just kept his water level low, and was patient when feeding him. I also gave him plenty of places to lay at the top of the tank ( those betta hammocks).

I wouldn't just start medicating without knowing what is going on with him. When I was new to keeping bettas, I did the same thing and over-medicated. If you want to start with something, I would start with a little aquarium salt. It's cheap and easy to get. Just follow the directions on the package.

I have issues with my betta not wanting to eat some times, too, for no apparent reason.

You could try soaking his food in some garlic juice. That is what is recommended for picky eaters, and it helps to boost the immune system.

He is eating, thankfully! I should have emphasized this. He will swim to the top every time I walk by or if he thinks there's going to be food around. He just makes his way back down to the bottom afterwards which isn't like him. He has also been playing with the gravel a little bit, I'm not sure if he's looking for food or what but it shows he does have some energy.

I hesitate to medicate also. I just worry because he has always been a more energetic fish (compared to other bettas I've had). He doesn't have any lesions on his skin, and his stomach isn't swollen (but I will try to get a photo for you guys to see as well). I will fast him today to see if that helps, though.

 

[Blacksheep1]

Do you think he could possibly be bored ?? He may need a snail to torment ( jokes ) . A fluffy plant to explore or a floating fake fish to terrify ?

 

[sparklepuff]

Ultimately I decided to remove my carbon cartridge and try a dose of Prazipro (due to his sticking his head in the gravel, which I know could be just boredom but is also potentially a sign of "flashing"/parasites). He's black so it is so hard to actually see if there's something in his gills/etc. if it isn't a light color. *sigh*

It won't hurt the filter media and I figured it was worth a shot. If he doesn't improve in the next week, I'm thinking of telling the sitter to dose the tank with KanaPlex.

Do you think he could possibly be bored ?? He may need a snail to torment ( jokes ) . A fluffy plant to explore or a floating fake fish to terrify ?

I got him so new plants recently, and will continue to once I'm back in January. I think getting one of those betta mirrors could help. Especially re: fin biting.

But I do think the current issue is beyond just boredome/that he isn't felling well physically, because he usually will be active and flaring at everything around the tank (potted plants, christmas decorations, etc. lol)

 

[sparklepuff]

An update: He isn't deteriorating but isn't getting better either. Nitrates are still about 20, no nitrite or ammonia. I gave him a second dose of Kanaplex today after doing about a 30% change (I had to hold off on a change following his first dose of antibiotic on Tuesday). After I removed the carbon filter, I added some SeaChem de-nitrate to the filter compartment. Also have had my temp set a bit higher (81-82) to ensure he's warm enough.

When I was cleaning today, the gravel was quite clean so I didn't vacuum it much further. But I discovered a TON of gunk in the little caged tube thing that goes into my filter intake, so I rinse that out. The pH has been dipping down so I removed all of my Catappa leaves from the water & added a little bit of a pH 7.0 booster from API.

I got a new "Seeshelter" (basically a half tube with suction cups) on Etsy that came today (really cool product: 11 Colors Seeshelter Betta Tunnel Fish Tank Decor for | Etsy). He was scared of it but swam through when I put a bloodworm inside of it (very quickly lol)...so clearly he has the energy to do things. It really must be an underlying water issue. I'm hoping things improve the more water changes are done.

The big question now is, do I still leave him with my pet sitter or try to get him transported to CA this weekend, to be with me instead (I imagine this would be a HUGE shock to him)? At least at home I would have full access/control...I just would hate to leave him here and have him get worse. Pet sitter is only coming every 2-3 days.

 

[Cherryshrimp420]

The best thing to do to a sick fish is to not mess with it. That's means none of these aquarium "products" or adding/removing stuff or moving the tank around. If KH is depleted all you need to do is water changes assuming your tap water has some KH. Dripping the water back in will be the least stressful way.

 

[sparklepuff]

The best thing to do to a sick fish is to not mess with it. That's means none of these aquarium "products" or adding/removing stuff or moving the tank around. If KH is depleted all you need to do is water changes assuming your tap water has some KH. Dripping the water back in will be the least stressful way.

I realize I've done a lot (out of anxiety/desperation from not knowing what's wrong). I definitely don't want to add anything else. Hopefully the water change takes care of the kH like you mention. In about 48 hours I'm going to put the carbon back in call it quits from there for now.

 

[sparklepuff]

Just wanted to let everyone know that Stitch is doing better post-medications (my pet sitter will continue doing small water changes bi-weekly while I'm gone for christmas). I think he might have had gill flukes or ick that wasn't visible.

He is a tough little guy and put up with three different medications (a testament to how resilient bettas can be) and I'm so grateful for this community's support.