I'm So Embarassed - What's On My Angels?

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by Magicpenny75, May 20, 2019.

  1. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    I am so embarassed, because I know better. I am always telling people don't buy fish that don't look right, etc. etc. control your impulses patience and all that. But these guys...I couldn't...control myself.
    I bought the last two koi angels in a tank of otherwise fine looking fish. As you can see, it was very plain there was an issue with their fins before I ever got them out of the bag. These little white whatevers are only on the fins. ONLY on the fins. I actually thought they were spots. There has been no flashing, no appetite loss, no other fish in my tank have any spots or lesions or any signs of disease or stress, including the tiny BN pleco. No clamped fins, everyone is eating heartily. I am on day 7 of careful dosing with Seachem Paraguard, and I can see no change in the fish at all. The same spots are there in the same places, no more or less. At least I am pretty sure because one has one dot in his tail and it's still just one dot. There are no spots on the bodies at all, and all the other fish are still symptom free.
    These guys are little, between the size of a nickel and a quarter, and my eyesight is not the best. Is it possible for koi angels to get actual white spots on their fins? Like, they have streaks and irregular white in the pelvic fins...
    I want it to not be ich. I want to believe I didn't knowingly and intentionally put sick fish in my tank with healthy fish. Don't we all come looking for the answer we want to hear?
    I'm going to continue the treatment for a full two weeks regardless, but I'm curious on the opinion of others. angels.jpg
     




  2. Jellibeen Well Known Member Member

    Hmm, it doesn't look like ich to me. The spots seem too big. It's also odd that they are only on the fins. Could it be some weird coloration? Do they look raised at all?
     




  3. Crispii Well Known Member Member

    It could be part of their markings and not ich.
     




  4. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    I can't tell...with the fins being clear mostly it's just hard to see if they are raised up or not. I'm going to try to get a better photo this evening. I've only had ich a few times before, and the most recent was several years ago on a betta, so that was pretty easy to treat with salt baths. But these guys don't even show the slightest indication of itch or discomfort. Their fins are always fanned out and they don't flick the edges or anything. They're all over the tank, hanging out together, annoying the pleco, browsing for little morsels in the plants...
     
  5. AvalancheDave Well Known Member Member

    Maybe this?



    It could also be viral in which case there isn't much to do other than keep stress low.
     
  6. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    I was hoping an angel expert would chime in. So you've seen fish with white spots or patches on the clear fins before? I just loved their yellow heads and really wanted white angels. Like I said, I will finish a course of treatment regardless
     
  7. Crispii Well Known Member Member

    I haven't kept domestic angels for a while. And why are you treating something that you don't really know what you're treating for?
     
  8. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    Seachem Paraguard is labeled to treat parasitic and fungal infections and lesions caused by virus and bacterial infections and be filter safe and safe for scaleless fish. Lacking a microscope, it felt like the best I could do, to at least try to nip it in the bud before it became a crisis. I had an oscar in this tank for several months without incident or disease, traded him in at my LFS and got these two angels, 7 diamond tetras, and the pleco all at the same time. Paraguard is marketed as safe and reputed to be effective...better safe than sorry i guess?
     
  9. Crispii Well Known Member Member

    Medications could lead to more harm than good. Best way to help cure whatever disease you're treating for is daily water changes. Medications is more of a last resort imo.

    If the angelfish is showing healthy signs and is eating, then I wouldn't treat it for anything.
     
  10. RSababady Well Known Member Member

    That was a good move. If they are parasites, then you should have got rid of them.

    If the fish are that small, then the spots are actually tine........ I would put that down to scar tissue as the spots seem to be on the spines of the fin.

    Have a look at this post - someone else had a similar problem and everyone thought it was scar tissue! https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/white-spot-on-angelfish-fin.389499/
     
  11. bizaliz3 Fishlore Legend Member

    The white spots are definitely not normal coloration for any angelfish

    I have had times where I have had one or two spots similar to that on a tail or dorsal fin. But not THAT many. I have read in the past that they are cysts or something along that line. But I don't know how accurate that is.

    I suggest daily water changes for a bit and see what happens. If they do not grow or develop fungus or anything like that, I would just let it be for now and see if they go away with good pristine water. I'm serious when I say daily water changes.

    Could you maybe get a better picture?
     
  12. angelcraze Well Known Member Member

    This was my first impression. Most likely what I call scar tissue from fighting in a smaller tank. They do heal eventually, but it takes a long time from what I've seen. I've never saw quite that much, and mostly it's on their pectoral fins from angels bumping into eachother.
     
  13. coralbandit Fishlore VIP Member

    A picture of them outside the bag might be helpful ..
     
  14. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    I took a video last night. My phone is terrible at taking pictures of tiny moving things through glass. I kinda miss my iphone for that... Here is the video. As you can see, no one in the tank behaves as if they don't feel well...
    I was able to confirm that whatever is going on, it's not just coloration. The white spots are raised up. Still nothing on the bodies, and no new spots and no fewer spots than a week ago.
     
  15. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    Thank you for the reply. I think daily water changes are a great idea. I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it...
    I don't think it's ich either...there are just zero other symptoms. Lymphocystis? Perhaps? God I hope not... I had a moonight grouami that got one of those scar pimples on a pectoral fin. It never went away.
    Thank goodness I have a python now. I know what I'll be doing over the holiday weekend!
     
  16. angelcraze Well Known Member Member

    For what it's worth, I do not think it's Lymphocystis. Do you think it could be anchor worm? This was anchor worm on my kerri tetra in QT


    I had to use tetra parasite guard (discontinued) to treat it. A drug called diflubenzuron treats it. Or a med called   treats it.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  17. Marimo New Member Member

    From your video, I do think it's ich. They are 3-dimensional, right? Are there any on the fishes' bodies?
     
  18. angelcraze Well Known Member Member

    Looks really big to be ich no? It's been a long time since I've seen ich tbh.....
     
  19. Marimo New Member Member

    If you're still treating with paraguard, I would think it would be gone. If I remember, it took about a week to clear it up. You had to wait until the cysts ruptured, then all the oocytes were out to cause more ich. I used a product called methylene blue then. I do not know if it is still used.

    I have angels, and have kept them for years. Lovely koi angels you have. I have a german blue blushing angelfish that I love. His name is Itty Bitty. He once was the size of a dime. Now it's a half-dollar.
     
  20. Magicpenny75 Well Known Member Member

    That's what I can't figure out. Last night made seven days of treatment with Paraguard, and no change for better or worse on any of the fish. The tank is at 83 degrees. The dots are three dimensional but there are no cysts on the fishes' bodies at all. I'm pretty sure Paraguard has methylene blue in it... not positive... I only get on fishlore at work lol.
    Thank you they are beautiful. I've never seen one with as bright a yellow on them and it really pops against all the black. Now if I can keep them alive...
     
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