How should I maintain my overstocked tank?

[ap4lmtree]

I have a 40 gallon with lots of fish. I have 1 betta, 4 albino corys, 6 bronze cory, 11 emerald green corys, 16 cardinal tetras, 17 harlequin rasboras, 13 java loaches, and I think 9 kuhlI loaches, but I am not sure. So, there are 77 fish in my 40 gallon breeder tank. I have a lustar hydro sponge 5, which is the biggest sponge there is; an aquaclear 110; and an aquaclear 20 (for surface skimming food, so my betta doesn't eat it). Aqadvisor says my stocking level is 137% and that I should change 60% water each week. It says my filtration capacity is 179%. I could add another lustar hydro big sponge to make it 268% filtration capacity; however, I am not sure that would improve water quality for my fish. Would an additional filter help? Other than that, I guess I just follow the recommended 60% water change? Oh, also, I have a large 4 inch air disc. however, I guess I should turn it up more.

So, [1] should I add that additional filter or would it not improve water quality and [2] do I need 60% water change each week or could I give myself some leeway with that, such as 70% WC every two weeks.

thanks

 

[johnbirg]

Hi,
70 fish in a 40 gallon tank is way too many. 60 %water change per week would be the minimum. You have enough filtration but with the fish you have you really need to keep up the water changes.

 

[coralbandit]

There is no replacement for waterchanges IMO ..
70% every other week is barely 1/2 of 60% a week so I will say no that will not work out well over time ..
They didn't say you could skip a week did they ?
Adding filters do little unless you still have ammonia or nitrites showing due to too little filtering ..
I will guess you have nitrates [ a cycled tank ] so your filters are working fine ..

 

[SAM321]

1. Dont over feed
2. Keep a constant temperature at 24
3. Regular water change of 40% every 5th daya
4. Any good quality water conditioner could be considered.
5. Zeolite to be used in filtration

 

[ProudPapa]

I'm also overstocked by most standards, although to a lesser degree, and I haven't had any problems so far. I religiously do two water changes per week of no less than 25% each, and usually 30% or a little over. (I stick the end of the siphon hose out the window instead of using buckets, so I can't measure it going out, just going back in.)

 

[SAM321]

Use Python water changing system

 

[Michael.j.gomez]

I have a 40 gallon with lots of fish. I have 1 betta, 4 albino corys, 6 bronze cory, 11 emerald green corys, 16 cardinal tetras, 17 harlequin rasboras, 13 java loaches, and I think 9 kuhlI loaches, but I am not sure. So, there are 77 fish in my 40 gallon breeder tank. I have a lustar hydro sponge 5, which is the biggest sponge there is; an aquaclear 110; and an aquaclear 20 (for surface skimming food, so my betta doesn't eat it). Aqadvisor says my stocking level is 137% and that I should change 60% water each week. It says my filtration capacity is 179%. I could add another lustar hydro big sponge to make it 268% filtration capacity; however, I am not sure that would improve water quality for my fish. Would an additional filter help? Other than that, I guess I just follow the recommended 60% water change? Oh, also, I have a large 4 inch air disc. however, I guess I should turn it up more.

So, [1] should I add that additional filter or would it not improve water quality and [2] do I need 60% water change each week or could I give myself some leeway with that, such as 70% WC every two weeks.

thanks

Hello, my 1st suggestion is to upgrade to 75 or even 90gal. your problems are going to be nitrates, aggression, stress(overcrowding) & maybe disease once all occupants are fully grown. You need greater water volume to handle such a bioload. There are a couple of things that may help till upgrade. I would switch substrate to sand(gravel traps waste & food) & then I would make a DIY sump(use 29gal) its easy build & way cheaper than tank. That would give you some time to either downgrade stock or upgrade tank. Hope this helps you!

 

[PascalKrypt]

There's overstocked and there's overstocked. You have 43 fish sharing your tank bottom, that is (if your tank is standard size) about 15 inch of total space per fish. So less than 4 square inch (or less than the footprint of a square 1 gallon) for each bottom dweller. That seems very overcrowded.
That is even ignoring how the cories species you have and kuhlI are not exactly nano-size when fully grown.

 

[Joshaeus]

First and foremost, I'd recommend either getting a bigger tank or rehoming some of the fish...that's an ENORMOUS stocking level, even coming from a guy that tends to slightly overstock his tanks Even if you could keep up with nitrate levels, fish would almost never be forced to live at such high densities in the wild (excluding perhaps dry season pools in the Amazon, which severely stress many of the fish trapped in them and leave them more vulnerable to predators), and even in a large school each individual fish can choose to leave the school if they want to.

With that being said...you'd have to give away half or more of your fish to be in a 'normal' stocking zone in that tank and you may not be able to get a larger tank for financial reasons or due to having a landlord, so there are a couple ways to maintain lower nitrate levels while keeping about 1/2-3/4 of your fish. In addition to the obvious ones (don't overfeed, keep the substrate reasonably clean, frequent water changes), there are at least two others that could be useful;
- Dense plant growth will absorb a significant amount of nitrates - this setup in particular may benefit strongly from a riparium filled with houseplants grown bare root in the tank water, such as Pothos. Terrestrial plants usually prefer nitrates over ammonia as their nitrogen source, while many aquatic plants preferentially use ammonia.
- Several companies sell porous media (such as seachem denitrate/matrix/pond matrix) that can encourage denitrifying bacteria to grow and use nitrates as an electron receptor (they breathe nitrate, basically), converting the nitrate to nitrogen gas that subsequently escapes the tank. These are less intuitive than typical nitrifying aquarium filters; they require very low oxygen levels (otherwise the bacteria will breathe oxygen instead of nitrates), which in turn requires low flow rates (less than 50 GPH for denitrate) through the filter. They also require a carbon source to perform optimally (reef aquarium keepers utilizing denitrifying filters usually use vodka or vinegar as the carbon source). If you want to experiment with this one, I'd recommend doing additional research.

 

[jjohnwm]

The more crowded a tank is, the closer you are walking to the edge of a disastrous crash. In your case, I'd say you've already jumped over the edge and are hanging by your fingertips. Something goes wrong...a power outage, a filter malfunction, etc...and your water conditions can quickly degrade to the point where disease will strike.

IMHO you should drastically reduce your stocking level, and/or upgrade your tank size. If you get a larger tank, please don't head off to the fish store with a fistful of money to start overstocking that as well.

Just out of curiosity...how long has this tank been operating like this?

 

[ap4lmtree]

Some of you have talked about bottom area space for my bottom fish. In all fairness, kuhlI and java loaches don't really take up bottom space. It is so insignificant that you could even discount them as not even being there if you want to argue with a hyperbole. They hide all day in the same areas lumped over each other. For instance, like 8+ of them are always under a 4 inch air bubble disc. Then, when they come out at night, they take up just wall space while they do their glass surfing each night while other fish are trying to sleep. As serpent fish, even my adult kuhlI loaches are still pretty relatively thin compare to my non serpent fish.

I just now ordered a neon devil's ivy plant (pothos plant). I will try to figure out how to place it for my tank. I think I will get an inexpensive 7 dollar marina hob filter, and I will have just the plant as the only media in there if not also biomax and sponges. I already have 11 anubias plants. I don't like other plants because I have pool filter sand substrate, and I don't want to bother with root tabs management. I have some elodea, but I am not sure it will last. I ordered fluval biomax to replace my AC biomax. Then, other than that, I am going to do just many water changes.

Thanks for your guys feedback.

 

[CrazedHoosier]

The good news is that none of the fish you have are very territorial. The bad news is you're sort of in a dangerous place that leaves you susceptible to disease and ammonia spikes. How does one even keep track of 70 fish in one tank? If one dies, you may not notice for a long time and then your ammonia levels will have already risen. Sorry if you're hearing the same thing over and over, but we all just want what is best for the fish. Don't think we hate you or anything—we can understand how easy it is to overstock.

I'd say 70-80% weekly water changes are a must. Maybe add some extra media for bacteria to build on? Sponge filters, bioballs in the filter, sponge over the intake tube, etc.

Side note, epipremnum aureum (common pothos) is an aroid vine that is hemiepiphytic. The reason is survives so long in water is because it can grow aerial roots and cling onto life outside the water while it searches for some soil. They are not even partially aquatic, and will eventually rot and die. Mine died after about 5 months of being kept in my aquarium.

 

[johnbirg]

There are none so deaf as those who will not hear and none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[ap4lmtree]

There are none so deaf as those who will not hear and none so blind as those who will not see.

Exactly, the original question and post was how to maintain my current tank and stock. Many who posted, including this quoted post, cannot see nor hear that. It is likely because you people who post OFF TOPIC do not follow blindly what is given.

 

[KribensisLover1]

Use Python water changing system

BEST THING EVER. saves tons of time and is SO much stronger than hand held pumps. BE CAREFUL imho for the little guys the suction is strong. I don’t use the highest water pressure and I also don’t fully open the suction but be careful.

 

[Joshaeus]

Exactly, the original question and post was how to maintain my current tank and stock. Many who posted, including your post, cannot see nor hear that. It is likely because you people who post OFF TOPIC do not follow blindly what is given.

The problem is that there is no way to stably maintain this many fish in a 40 gallon, even if you did daily water changes...this is simply too many fish for the tank, and even if you could keep nitrates at zero the sheer amount of crowding is itself stressful. I gave advice that could help you keep a decent fraction of the fish in this tank size, but the fact of the matter is that unless you want the tank to sooner or later crash and kill every last fish in this tank with an ammonia spike (as happened with my banded bushfish fry when I missed a few water changes) you need to rehome some of the occupants or get a larger tank.

I sincerely believe you care about these fish; otherwise you would have given them away long before they became this much work. Please, seek the good of the fish, not to defy basic stocking level principles.

 

[ProudPapa]

So, [1] should I add that additional filter or would it not improve water quality and [2] do I need 60% water change each week or could I give myself some leeway with that, such as 70% WC every two weeks.

thanks

No.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Exactly, the original question and post was how to maintain my current tank and stock. Many who posted, including your post, cannot see nor hear that. It is likely because you people who post OFF TOPIC do not follow blindly what is given.

Okay, then consider this.
Someone posts here saying they would like advice on the proper care for keeping a common pleco in a 15 gallon. How should they go about this?

Do you think it is 'unreasonable' and 'off-topic' for people to post suggesting that this set-up is doomed to fail and no matter what care practices they have (even mentioning that many water changes would be required for an attempt!) it is going to be detrimental to the fish.
Are these people not taking into consideration OP's question or do think that perhaps they are honestly stating their opinions on the matter, which is that they simply cannot give care suggestions because the premise of that set-up is just not workable, and they feel obligated to state that they cannot in good conscience endorse it?

If your answer is yes, all those who post are being unreasonable and off-topic, then okay. But don't complain when you get zero replies on your next topic because you are demanding that people who give a reply already find the set-up agreeable, which clearly no one here does. Simple as that.

(Even even under those circumstances, you still got a ton of suggestions how to adjust care to try and make that set-up work.)

 

[jjohnwm]

It's common practice nowadays to preach that you can do anything you want...if you want it hard enough and set your mind to it. Even if this were true...and it emphatically is not...it would be hard not to notice that you are already asking for short-cuts and work-arounds to give yourself "some leeway".

So, you want this stocking level to be possible...informed opinions to the contrary are summarily dismissed...some suggestions are made regarding steps that might postpone the virtually inevitable collapse of this tank..and now you also want it to be easy?

How about this: tell us what you are going to do...you're obviously going to do it anyways...and I'm sure someone will reassure that it will work and your fish will be fine.

Heck, I'll tell you that myself, as long as you keep us updated on the progress. I'm sure that when disaster strikes, there will be an interesting tale that details how something happened that wasn't your fault, was in fact beyond your control. Should be good for a laugh.

 

[coralbandit]

I don't think the tank is horribly overstocked ??
137% is no big deal to the dedicated keeper ??
Aquadvisor has had my 180g at 210% stocked ..Wonder what they think of my 16 clown loaches now ?..
If the fish will not out grow the tank then overcrowding takes on a different meaning ..
But that being said and people thinking what they want of me ,I will say again no way around waterchanges ..
Heres the deal on them for all however you are stocked ;
They are the best thing you can do for your tank and anyone who says different still doesn't get it ..
Does every need to do large changes ??No
But IMO no matter what your stocking 50% a week should be minimum ..That still leaves half the junk you added in the water ??
And lets remember even food eaten turns to waste so water should be changed on all tanks regularly ..

 

[PascalKrypt]

I don't think the tank is horribly overstocked ??
137% is no big deal to the dedicated keeper ??
Aquadvisor has had my 180g at 210% stocked ..Wonder what they think of my 16 clown loaches now ?..
If the fish will not out grow the tank then overcrowding takes on a different meaning ..
But that being said and people thinking what they want of me ,I will say again no way around waterchanges ..
Heres the deal on them for all however you are stocked ;
They are the best thing you can do for your tank and anyone who says different still doesn't get it ..
Does every need to do large changes ??No
But IMO no matter what your stocking 50% a week should be minimum ..That still leaves half the junk you added in the water ??
And lets remember even food eaten turns to waste so water should be changed on all tanks regularly ..

Fair points but I'm not going by aqadvisor. 16 clown loaches in a 180G should not equal to less than 4 square inch swimming space per fish, I do hope. Again why bioload and inch per gallon rules should be taken with a grain of salt.
My 63G is also overstocked according to aqadvisor, because it calculates the bioload of my 4-5" dojos as those of 12" poop machines.

 

[FinalFins]

Personally in a tank that stocked The minimum I would do is 2-3x a week of 50% water changes.

 

[coralbandit]

Should be good for a laugh.

Are you going to laugh at me ?
They have me at 188% stocked in my 180 with only my clowns listed ..
Want to offer me some sage advice so I get another 20+ years from these fish ?
Sounds like you know it all ?
The tone of too many on thread has turned ugly ..Not helpful at all and seriously shows the lack of experience and respect most have at being a seriously good and helpful keeper ...
What a shame ….

 

[CrazedHoosier]

Might as well have posted this thread on Twitter because the drama and atmosphere are very similar right now. Everyone just needs to take a step back and not take everything so personally. This is about the fish and doing right by them - not about taking shots at other people.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Fair enough, this may have gotten a little heated. I apologise if how I worded things came off too strongly.

 

[Joshaeus]

Might as well have posted this thread on Twitter because the drama and atmosphere are very similar right now. Everyone just needs to take a step back and not take everything so personally. This is about the fish and doing right by them - not about taking shots at other people.

Fair enough, this may have gotten a little heated. I apologise if how I worded things came off too strongly.

Yeah, you're right...I did get a little bit too forceful with my approach. My apologies.

 

[david1978]

Hahaha. Only 137% wonder what it would of said when I was breeding convicts and couldn't get them to stop. I swear I had more fish then water. I would drain and refill the tank at the same time since I couldn't take out 50% of the water and still have all the fish in the water. My only suggestion to op. Lots of water changes. High stocking levels don't give you leway. If you want a lazt tank with lots of least go lots of water and few fish.

 

[johnbirg]

Exactly, the original question and post was how to maintain my current tank and stock. Many who posted, including this quoted post, cannot see nor hear that. It is likely because you people who post OFF TOPIC do not follow blindly what is given.

I was right on topic.
You seem to be determined on trying to maintain an overstocked tank while at the same time trying to find some way to reduce the amount of work required to properly care for the inhabitants of the tank. I can only assume that you won't heed the good advice you have been given by many on this forum and seem happy to attack the those of us that are trying to help you. Sorry but if you don't like the answers you have received perhaps you should just forge ahead regardless and wait for the inevitable result.
Have a good day!

 

[jmarcf]

I don't think this is drama or people being mean. Has the world become so sensitive that instead of "not causing drama" or not telling someone something that needs to be said, people would rather see animals suffer? I know which side of this I would be on.

To the OP is it possible to upgrade your tank? Don't you guys have big sales coming up if you're in America?

If you're just going to ignore everyone, why not throw a dovii, bullshark or both in?

 

[jjohnwm]

Okay, I give up. To those who have taken offense, my apologies. To those who have re-thought and edited their earlier posts to soften their tone...nope, I type slowly enough that I have plenty of time to consider my words before hitting "post reply", and I stand by my comments.

And to those who state that this tank will work: If the OP were able to succeed long-term with this bucket'o'fish, he wouldn't need to ask how to do it; he'd know the possible traps and pitfalls and would know how to avoid them. If he needs to ask...then he probably shouldn't be trying it yet. I asked earlier about how long this tank has been running...crickets...

Anybody with experience has lost fish in the past and (hopefully) learned from their mistakes. Attempting to steer others away from those errors is, IMHO, much more helpful than smiling and patting them on the back and telling them that everything will be "fine".

Good luck to all, including the OP...and especially to his fish.

 

[christiangrenier]

I have a 40 gallon with lots of fish. I have 1 betta, 4 albino corys, 6 bronze cory, 11 emerald green corys, 16 cardinal tetras, 17 harlequin rasboras, 13 java loaches, and I think 9 kuhlI loaches, but I am not sure. So, there are 77 fish in my 40 gallon breeder tank. I have a lustar hydro sponge 5, which is the biggest sponge there is; an aquaclear 110; and an aquaclear 20 (for surface skimming food, so my betta doesn't eat it). Aqadvisor says my stocking level is 137% and that I should change 60% water each week. It says my filtration capacity is 179%. I could add another lustar hydro big sponge to make it 268% filtration capacity; however, I am not sure that would improve water quality for my fish. Would an additional filter help? Other than that, I guess I just follow the recommended 60% water change? Oh, also, I have a large 4 inch air disc. however, I guess I should turn it up more.

So, [1] should I add that additional filter or would it not improve water quality and [2] do I need 60% water change each week or could I give myself some leeway with that, such as 70% WC every two weeks.

thanks

Oh my gosh! Definetly overstocked. Have you considered rehousing a couple of em? I mean it would be hard but that’s too many..

 

[jmarcf]

Oh my gosh! Definetly overstocked. Have you considered rehousing a couple of em? I mean it would be hard but that’s too many..

Your not supposed to say that because it might be to harsh. The OP has been told this but seems to ignore the advice.

 

[CrazedHoosier]

Your not supposed to say that because it might be to harsh. The OP has been told this but seems to ignore the advice.

If you’re referring to my comment about all of this turning into a twitter drama, I was talking about people taking personal shots at other people.

People are less likely to listen to other people’s advice the angrier it is delivered, and are less likely to ask for help if they get attacked for asking for it the first time. That’s why I said that. He made a mistake and was listening to advice until people started taking personal shots at him.

 

[jmarcf]

If you’re referring to my comment about all of this turning into a twitter drama, I was talking about people taking personal shots at other people.

I didn’t see any personal attacks at all but I'm not from the nice part of the internet.

People are less likely to listen to other people’s advice the angrier it is delivered, and are less likely to ask for help if they get attacked for asking for it the first time. That’s why I said that. He made a mistake and was listening to advice until people started taking personal shots at him.

I can't see the OP taking any proper advice like either getting a larger tank or cutting down on the stock. Sorry to say any other advice is irrelevant because it is going to end up in disaster.

But I'm not going to comment on this anymore because it's gone whyyyy off topic

 

[bizaliz3]

No amount of water changes or filtration can make up for lack of space. That's the thing. So when asking how to maintain that stock...the natural answer is that it's not good for the fish to be that overcrowded. So attempting it isn't even technically a question that should be answered.

Bioload isn't even the issue here. Its space.

Just my 2 cents

I wish you and your fish the best.

 

[goldface]

I agree with CoralBandit. Adding another filter would likely be redundant, especially if your current filtration is already well established and can handle the bioload; that is, convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate (and some cases even convert nitrate to 0). Regular, large weekly water changes is the best practice, I think. No new capital expenditures necessary.

I can't see the OP taking any proper advice like either getting a larger tank or cutting down on the stock. Sorry to say any other advice is irrelevant because it is going to end up in disaster.

I wouldn't be so certain of that. Really depends on the fishkeeper. I can see why a lot of people would think it's an absolute disaster waiting to happen, if they have always been very conservative with stocking. But speaking from experience, both my own and other people's, you haven't really seen what overstocked looks like.

 

[bizaliz3]

I agree with CoralBandit. Adding another filter would likely be redundant, especially if your current filtration is already well established and can handle the bioload; that is, convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate (and some cases even convert nitrate to 0). Regular, large weekly water changes is the best practice, I think. No new capital expenditures necessary.


I wouldn't be so certain of that. Really depends on the fishkeeper. I can see why a lot of people would think it's an absolute disaster waiting to happen, if they have always been very conservative with stocking. But speaking from experience, both my own and other people's, you haven't really seen what overstocked looks like.

I suppose...my 125g is apparently at 178% stocked. Lol what a hypocrite I am.

Though it does require extra maintenance and experience. Not corner cutting or trying to supplement water changes with extra filtration.

I intend to do at least two 50% water changes weekly.

 

[CrazedHoosier]

I suppose...my 125g is apparently at 178% stocked. Lol what a hypocrite I am.

Though it does require extra maintenance and experience. Not corner cutting or trying to supplement water changes with extra filtration.

I intend to do at least two 50% water changes weekly.

I think a lot of larger tanks can afford being overstocked. You still have 6 feet of tank for fish to swim and be active in! If you overstocked a 29 gallon, on top of the tank being a bit small to handle an extreme bioload, the fish would be stuck in a space of less than 3 feet to swim in. The extra stress from pent up energy could cause aggression, aggression could lead to infections. A viscous cycle!

 

[christiangrenier]

Your not supposed to say that because it might be to harsh. The OP has been told this but seems to ignore the advice.

Oh.. Lol

 

[potterTheDachshund]

I agree with your general sentiment but..

But IMO no matter what your stocking 50% a week should be minimum ..That still leaves half the junk you added in the water ??

This seems unnecessary unless you're running a fully or overstocked clean glass tank. A tank with some healthy algae, plants and space for aerobic and anaerobic bacteria and a modest stocking can easily get by on 25% a week or much less. Seems to me that drastic water changes are more stressful than consistent water parameters with a slowly rising low nitrate level.