Betta Fish Is Sick - Help!

[GoPats1981]

Hello,

My wife and I got a betta fish in a yankee swap for Chrismas 2017. He's currently in a Top Fin Betta Flo Sooth tank 3.5 gallon.

On Friday, October 5, 2019, I did a 100% water change. You could see that there was black gunk (algae maybe) along the white center column. I scrubbed everything down with hot water, including the glass beads and plastic plants we have in the tank. I have a separate, smaller 2 gallon bowl that I treated with Tetra Aquasafe Water Conditioner, SafeStart, and Easy Balance. I scooped my betta with a net and placed him into the 2 gallon bowl while I cleaned the Betta Flo Sooth tank.

Once the Betta Flo Sooth tank was cleaned, I filled it with warm water to about the halfway mark and treated it with the Aquasafe Water Conditioner, SafeStart, and Easy Balance. I then poured the 2 gallon tank into the Betta Flo Sooth Tank. (I think this is where I screwed up). I should have waited until the water got to room temperature first, and then scooped my betta and put him back into the tank, rather then pour him in along with the water.

Saturday morning he appeared lethargic and stayed at the bottom of the tank. I assumed he was stressed from pouring him into the bowl. I noticed he would still eat, but sink afterwards. I thought he might have swim bladder disease, so I stopped feeding him for 2 days. I also lowered the water level by 30% so it would be easier for him to get to the surface for air. Yesterday, I thawed out a frozen pea, and gave him about 1/4 of it (without the skin) as I read that helps with constipation, which may be the cause of swim bladder disease. However, I noticed that my betta had red colored splotches on his head. This made me think he did not have swim bladder disease, but maybe Columnaris.. I put in a dose of E.M. Erythromycin into the tank as it was the only medicine I have. I read that it can help with Columnaris, but is not overly effective.

This morning his fins were translucent and his dorsal fin had a pin sized hole in it. I have snapped 2 photos from this morning. You'll notice some debris in one of the picks. I think it is fish poop, but I'm not sure. It wasn't there last night.

Does anyone know what is wrong with him? What should I do?

Thanks.

 

[maggie thecat]

Can you provide your current water chemistry readings?

When you say you used warm water, how warm are you talking? Comfy bathwater? Lukewarm?

I think you may have kicked off a stress reaction that left the fish vulnerable to infection, in which case continued treatment with antibiotics per the package instructions , may be your best course of action. But that really is only a guess based on the information provided.

 

[GoPats1981]

I took water to my local petsmart and they tested it. They said it is fine. But I didn't get specifics on the chemistry. I did a test strip at home and everything checked out OK.

I would describe the water as comfy bathwater. 80 degrees or so.

On the way home I think I am going to go get medication for columnaris. I just think that is what is going on based upon the description of the disease that is posted on this site.

 

[Leilio]

I have a betta, 80 degrees should be cool to the touch but not cold or warm. You need to get a thermometer to get the water temperature right to not cause further stress. A cheap 3 dollars one from Amazon would do. That is if you don't have one already. I hope your betta gets better soon!

 

[GoPats1981]

Hmmm. Maybe it was warmer than I thought.

Just the same. I think I am going to do a full water change and treat for columnaris. Unless someone thinks it's some other disease.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[PascalKrypt]

Heavy-duty antibiotics can be an immense source of additional stress. Personally I just see a very stressed betta in the pictures. I would just do daily water changes of around 30% to keep his water very clean and give him some time to recover on his own.

One thing to definitely do is lower the water level so it will take him less effort to go to the surface and take a gulp of air when he needs to.
Get him some very nutritious food like frozen mosquito larvae or live brine shrimp which you can get at most pet shops to help him recover some of his energy.

I don't think you've stated anywhere what the normal temperature of the tank is? Do you have a heater in there? What kind of filter do you have?

 

[GoPats1981]

PaskcalKrypt,

Yes, I have a heater in there. The normal temperature is 78 degrees. The Betta Flo Sooth tank is 3.5 gallons and has a central column where you can put in a charcoal filter. There is a little electric pump that circulates the water gently.

I ran out of water conditioner after the last change so I went to the pet store to buy some more after work yesterday. I showed the photos I posted to the girl that worked in the fish section. She said that based upon my betta's appearance, and age (I've had him for 2 years, and he was probably 6 months when I bought him), that he is probably old and on his way out. I'm not so sure. He was fine until that last water change.

Anyway, when I got home last night, I took his old, 2 gallon bowl and filled it half way with water and treated it with Aquasafe Water Conditioner, SafeStart, and Easy Balance. I put a plant in there and an old, smaller heater in there. The water level is about 5 inches, so my betta should have an easier time getting to the surface.

I then cleaned the 3.5 gallon tank again. There was a small amount of black sludge underneath the glass beads. Upon further inspection, I noticed there was some black gunk in the vents inside the pump. I took it apart, and it was filled with black gunk. I cleaned it thoroughly. I feel terrible. I don't know why I didn't notice this during the last change.

I filled the 3.5 gallon with water and treated it. I put all of the beads back in. I put in a fresh carbon filter, even though the last one was only a week old. I put in my betta's log and a fake plant. I put the heater in there and set it to 78 degrees.

I didn't want to disturb my betta any more than I had to so I left him alone. This morning he was resting on top of a plant and I saw him go to the surface a couple of times for air. I put in a couple of dried bloodworms, but he didn't go for them.

When I get home, I'll acclimate him properly to the 3.5 gallon tank. I'm considering buying some other type of food to see if I can entice him to eat.

If anyone else has suggestions about medication, food, or anything else, let me know.

Thanks.

 

[maggie thecat]

Fresh/frozen food is always preferable to freeze dried, which can contribute to bloat.

Could the black gunge be charcoal dust residue? Or is it just mulm? Either way, it sounds like you are doing all you can.

If it's a stress reaction, time and peace and quiet (consider leaving the lights off for the next day or two) are great healers.

 

[BarbaraLocke]

PaskcalKrypt,

Yes, I have a heater in there. The normal temperature is 78 degrees. The Betta Flo Sooth tank is 3.5 gallons and has a central column where you can put in a charcoal filter. There is a little electric pump that circulates the water gently.

I ran out of water conditioner after the last change so I went to the pet store to buy some more after work yesterday. I showed the photos I posted to the girl that worked in the fish section. She said that based upon my betta's appearance, and age (I've had him for 2 years, and he was probably 6 months when I bought him), that he is probably old and on his way out. I'm not so sure. He was fine until that last water change.

Anyway, when I got home last night, I took his old, 2 gallon bowl and filled it half way with water and treated it with Aquasafe Water Conditioner, SafeStart, and Easy Balance. I put a plant in there and an old, smaller heater in there. The water level is about 5 inches, so my betta should have an easier time getting to the surface.

I then cleaned the 3.5 gallon tank again. There was a small amount of black sludge underneath the glass beads. Upon further inspection, I noticed there was some black gunk in the vents inside the pump. I took it apart, and it was filled with black gunk. I cleaned it thoroughly. I feel terrible. I don't know why I didn't notice this during the last change.

I filled the 3.5 gallon with water and treated it. I put all of the beads back in. I put in a fresh carbon filter, even though the last one was only a week old. I put in my betta's log and a fake plant. I put the heater in there and set it to 78 degrees.

I didn't want to disturb my betta any more than I had to so I left him alone. This morning he was resting on top of a plant and I saw him go to the surface a couple of times for air. I put in a couple of dried bloodworms, but he didn't go for them.

When I get home, I'll acclimate him properly to the 3.5 gallon tank. I'm considering buying some other type of food to see if I can entice him to eat.

If anyone else has suggestions about medication, food, or anything else, let me know.

Thanks.

One thing I noticed you said is that you have charcoal in the filter. Any meds that you would add to that tank would be quickly removed by the charcoal - so you might want to replace it with some other type of filter media if you are going to go the medication route. I agree with PascalKrypt and maggie thecat that you’re old guy is stressed (which could have been just from moving him back and forth when you first cleaned his tank. Frozen foods (that you thaw). Would be a lot more enticing, and nutritious, than any of the freeze dried and pellets that are labeled for Bettas. It’s expensive when you only have one, as the cubes shouldn’t be refrozen once they’ve thawed (and Bettas only need a couple blood worms or mysis shrimp since their stomachs are so small), but you can just shave a little off a frozen cube so you don’t waste the whole thing. Good luck!

 

[GoPats1981]

Thanks Barbara. I did remove the filter when I was attempting to medicate my betta. He didn't respond. I was thinking about treating for columnaris, but based upon the feedback I'm getting here that he's just stressed, I'm going to just leave him be and keep him comfortable. I'll get some frozen food as you suggested.

Fresh/frozen food is always preferable to freeze dried, which can contribute to bloat.

Could the black gunge be charcoal dust residue? Or is it just mulm? Either way, it sounds like you are doing all you can.

If it's a stress reaction, time and peace and quiet (consider leaving the lights off for the next day or two) are great healers.

Definitely not residue from the charcoal. I think it was mulm.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Really wanted to repeat that treating him without a definitive diagnosis (which there isn't at this point) will sour his chances 4 times out of 5, especially if you use heavy medication that takes a toll on his organs.
As for what the girl at the store said... bettas are capable of living upwards of 5 years. Nowadays due to various reasons, not all of which are equally clear (but genetics definitely has something to do with it) most bettas don't live quite that long. Still I wouldn't say a 2-year-old betta is definitely finished. He may be, or he may just recover and go on to live quite a few years more. Only time will tell.

 

[GoPats1981]

Thank you. I will refrain from medicating him. I hope he recovers.

 

[BarbaraLocke]

Thanks Barbara. I did remove the filter when I was attempting to medicate my betta. He didn't respond. I was thinking about treating for columnaris, but based upon the feedback I'm getting here that he's just stressed, I'm going to just leave him be and keep him comfortable. I'll get some frozen food as you suggested.

Just to clarify - you said you removed the filter, but you should always have filtration. If you meant to say you removed the charcoal from the filter, then you did just fine! Lots of people, myself included, never use charcoal except to remove meds, then take it back out.

 

[GoPats1981]

I see. I just buy the filters that are designed for the tank. I don't think there's a way to take out the charcoal. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[BarbaraLocke]

I see. I just buy the filters that are designed for the tank. I don't think there's a way to take out the charcoal. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

Probably, not, as filter manufactures know that people equate crystal clear water with healthy water (untrue), and pre-made cartridges all have it. If you’re a bit handy, you can always cut open a used cartridge (sometimes you can just break the bottom out), remove the filter media that’s in it, and replace it with a wad of fiber filter material and a piece of sponge. All are available in bulk at many pet stores and, if not, there’s always Amazon. Bettas don’t create a big bio load, so you can keep ammonia and nitrites at bay by doing frequent water changes (since it sounds like your tank would go through a mini-cycle every time you put in a new cartridge anyway). Keep us posted, and fingers crossed for your little guy

 

[FinalFins]

Hi,

I think it may be the aftermath of scrubbing everything. You see, every hard surface in a tank has bacteria. Good bacteria that cleans water of toxins. and you kinda killed em.

 

[GoPats1981]

Yikes. So I shouldn't scrub the tank or the plastic plants during a water change? I've been doing this since I first got my betta. Duly noted.

He had a bit more energy last night. He would surface more often, he ate, and he moved around the bottom of the tank a bit more than he has been. The color on his body looks a bit better to me, but his fins are still a bit translucent.

 

[BarbaraLocke]

Yikes. So I shouldn't scrub the tank or the plastic plants during a water change? I've been doing this since I first got my betta. Duly noted.

He had a bit more energy last night. He would surface more often, he ate, and he moved around the bottom of the tank a bit more than he has been. The color on his body looks a bit better to me, but his fins are still a bit translucent.

Well, that’s great news!! I hope he continues to get better!
You can clean you plastic plants, etc., in the water you remove from the tank before you dump it, and wipe the inside of the glass with a paper towel if you see any algae starting to grow. Swishing the plants around in the water, and rubbing the leaves with you fingers will get the slime off just fine. It’s when you take everything to the kitchen sink and run them under the hot water that you get rid of the good bacteria along with the crud.

 

[JamieLu]

I wouldnt b replacing the filter cartridge, ur throwing away bacteria u need when u do that. Just cut a hole in it and dump the charcoal out if u don't want to use it. But id stuff some other diy filter media in there for a few months then get rid of the cartridges, itll save u tons I'm sure. And just rinse the filter media when needed in old tank water. Also why are u adding easy balance? That's an unnecessary chemical that's adding to his stress. They sell tank thermometers at walmart too for like $2 if u don't have one already. Also, no need to take him out of the tank when u clean it, also unnecessary stress. Try not to over clean too much at once so u don't take out too much bacteria. But I really hope he perks up and gets better!

 

[GoPats1981]

Hello,

A couple of weeks ago, I put my betta back inside his main tank with the filter, and the water level at about 5 inches so that it would be easier for him to get to the surface. He would still rest along the bottom, surfacing occasionally for air. Sometimes he would go after the food I put in, other times he wouldn't. After a week, he still had not improved at all. I removed the filter and tried medicating with Tetra Lifeguard, which takes 5 days. I was careful to make sure I wasn't overdosing him. He still didn't appear to be doing any better. I did a 1/3 water change on the 6th day and replaced the filter. I left him alone for the past week. He is still resting on the bottom. Lately, when I've been putting food on the surface, you can see him swim up, rest a second, and then swim up further to try and get the food. But he's missing the food. It's like he knows its there, but can't see it. Once he reaches the surface he then just lets himself sink back down to the bottom. His fins are mostly translucent at this point. His face is white. If anyone has any thoughts, let me know.

Thanks.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Okay, so this is the point where you may want to think about more heavily medicating him after all, since he doesn't seem to be recovering on his own.

First though, taking some stock --

I think there was some discussion last time about changing filters and deep cleaning, etc. - can you test your water to see if there is ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in it? If you let them test it in a shop, ask beforehand about actual levels (expressed in "ppm") not just 'fine' because that isn't always helpful. A measuring of PH, GH and KH would help as well.
Do you have any kind of sinking food (meat-based) that you could crumble and toss in the tiniest pinch near him to see if he would eat that? Not being able to swim to the surface well and not eating any food at all are two different symptoms.

Before starting medication, so between putting him back in the tank and starting lifeguard, how often did you do water changes?

And provide some current photos of him if you can.

 

[BarbaraLocke]

Excellent advice, PascalKrypt! One thing you might try is to get some frozen bloodworms, and shave a small amount off one cube and let it thaw (it will only take a minute). Then take a tooth pick, or pair of tweezers, and pick up one worm (or piece of worm) and put it down right in front of his mouth. Wiggle it a little if he doesn’t go for it immediately. I’m not a huge fan of blood worms for our fish, but Bettas go nuts for them, and it’s the closest thing to their natural ‘fresh meat’. If he eats it don’t get excited and overdo it, especially if he eats a whole worm. Wait an hour or so, then offer another - and then wait half a day and offer him a piece of cooked, shelled, mashed up pea (which will stick to the end of a toothpick so you can get it down to where he is).

 

[Momgoose56]

Hello,

A couple of weeks ago, I put my betta back inside his main tank with the filter, and the water level at about 5 inches so that it would be easier for him to get to the surface. He would still rest along the bottom, surfacing occasionally for air. Sometimes he would go after the food I put in, other times he wouldn't. After a week, he still had not improved at all. I removed the filter and tried medicating with Tetra Lifeguard, which takes 5 days. I was careful to make sure I wasn't overdosing him. He still didn't appear to be doing any better. I did a 1/3 water change on the 6th day and replaced the filter. I left him alone for the past week. He is still resting on the bottom. Lately, when I've been putting food on the surface, you can see him swim up, rest a second, and then swim up further to try and get the food. But he's missing the food. It's like he knows its there, but can't see it. Once he reaches the surface he then just lets himself sink back down to the bottom. His fins are mostly translucent at this point. His face is white. If anyone has any thoughts, let me know.

Thanks.

Just some simplified info to read about the nitrogen cycle and why you need numbers and not just "fine".
https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

 

[BettaNgold]

It isn’t Columnaris. I lost 11 fish to that. I think it’s a minI cycle and exposure to toxic chemistry along with temp shock. No offense intended but I can’t imagine cleaning and refilling a tank without a thermometer. I would do 50% water changes daily for a few days along with aquarium salt at the dose of 1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons of water. After that, when you do the 50% water change, add 1/2 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of water. Salt improves gill function and reduces stress. Continue this for several days to a week. Remember to dissolve the salt in a little tank water before adding to tank or it can burn the fish. Good luck. Please keep us posted.

 

[GoPats1981]

Sorry I haven't been on here in a few days. I've been extremely busy at work. I will buy my own test kit tonight on my way home from work as it turns out the pet store was just using test strips. I'll get some frozen blood worms as well. I have attempted to feed him a quarter of a de-shelled, cooked pea using tweezers, but I can't get his attention. Hopefully the blood worms are more enticing.

I have attached photos of my betta that were taken yesterday. Also, here is a video that I took showing him trying to swim to the surface to eat.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Do get those water tests. If they come back clean (so 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite), do the following;
Get some medication with methylene blue and dose it as recommended (if there are low and high dose options, do the high dose) once. If the betta is suffering from the aftereffects of severe nitrite poisoning (lethargy), it should show effect within minutes. If nothing changes about his activity levels/swimming ability, do a large water change and start him on some antibiotics. It is quite possible, since he has been ill for so long, that an opportunistic infection has set in on whatever damage there was caused by swings originally.
Others may weigh in, but this seems to me the best course of action. Indeed it doesn't look like columnaris but there are plenty of other bacteria omnipresent in the water column that can infect fish, like aeromonas.

 

[GoPats1981]

I tested the water and the values are:

Ph: 7.6
High ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Temperature: 78 degrees farenheight.

I set up a hospital tank because I am worried about something being in the main tank. Ph is still 7.6, but everything else is at 0. Temperature is at 81, but I think that’s because the tank is smaller so the heater has an easier time warming the water. I’ll test again in the morning.

There was no blue methylene at the store. I’ll have to get some on amazon. What kind of antibiotics should I get?

How do I fix the main tank?

 

[Momgoose56]

You don't need Methyline Blue. Your tank isn't cycled and most likely your fish's symptoms are a result of ammonia poisoning. Your tank will continue to cycle over the next few weeks (4 to 8 weeks) building up the nitrifying bacteria necessary to oxidize ammonia and nitrites (it will need an outside ammonia source however, since the fish is now in a hospital tank-we can advise you on that)
Did your betta perk up at all after a being moved to clean water? Ammonia exposure can damage gill tissue, burn, cause stress and immune system suppression and resulting infection. He looks like he may need an antibiotic for fin rot, but let us know how he's doing in the morning. Can you give us more details about his main tank and hospital tank in the mean time ie tank size & type of filter?

 

[PascalKrypt]

I tested the water and the values are:

Ph: 7.6
High ph: 7.4
Ammonia: 1.0ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Temperature: 78 degrees farenheight.

I set up a hospital tank because I am worried about something being in the main tank. Ph is still 7.6, but everything else is at 0. Temperature is at 81, but I think that’s because the tank is smaller so the heater has an easier time warming the water. I’ll test again in the morning.

There was no blue methylene at the store. I’ll have to get some on amazon. What kind of antibiotics should I get?

How do I fix the main tank?

That is strange. I thought you were doing several water changes a week, but I guess not anymore?

Momgoose56 is right, I was spitballing with the MB suggestion because I thought problems persisted despite good water parameters. Don't dose with anything (also no antibiotics if he does perk up by himself), the ammonia is the problem.

What kind of routine have you had (feeding and water changes) on the tank in these past weeks?

 

[GoPats1981]

I thought the water was OK, too. But I was relying on test strips. Lesson learned.

I'm not entirely sure that ammonia poisoning is what started this ordeal, however. He was fine, but there was black gunk on the center column of my tank, so I took out my 2nd, smaller tank, filled it with water, treated it, put a heater in it, and waited about an hour. I then put my betta into the 2nd tank. I did a 100% water change and cleaned all of the black gunk I could see on the tank. I refilled the main tank, treated the water, and then put my betta back into the main tank - however - I foolishly did not wait and I'm pretty sure the water was a lot warmer than the 78 he is used to.
The next day he was lethargic and his face had turned white. Over time his fins started to become translucent. He would swim, but then sink to the bottom.

Three weeks ago I tried treating him with E.M. Erythromycin. He did not respond. Last week I tried treating him with lifeguard, and he didn't respond to that, either. After medicating him with the Lifeguard, I did a 25% water change. He still was lethargic. I'd try feeding him, and he would try to go after the pellets, sometimes he'd get one, other times he wouldn't. I think the high ammonia might be all of the decaying food on the bottom of the tank over the last couple of weeks.

Bottom line is I screwed up, due to my ignorance and inexperience. He's still alive, but I have no idea what the real problem is.

He's currently in the 2nd tank because I was under the impression this might be a bacteria infection issue. I thawed out a frozen blood worm and put it in front of him this morning. He didn't go after it - however - when I got out of the shower, he had moved and I couldn't see the blood worm. I think he ate it.

I tested the ammonia before I left for work. It's at 0. I didn't have time to check the nitrite and nitrate. I'll do that this evening.

I appreciate all of the feedback.

Thank you.

 

[PascalKrypt]

I thought the water was OK, too. But I was relying on test strips. Lesson learned.

I'm not entirely sure that ammonia poisoning is what started this ordeal, however. He was fine, but there was black gunk on the center column of my tank, so I took out my 2nd, smaller tank, filled it with water, treated it, put a heater in it, and waited about an hour. I then put my betta into the 2nd tank. I did a 100% water change and cleaned all of the black gunk I could see on the tank. I refilled the main tank, treated the water, and then put my betta back into the main tank - however - I foolishly did not wait and I'm pretty sure the water was a lot warmer than the 78 he is used to.
The next day he was lethargic and his face had turned white. Over time his fins started to become translucent. He would swim, but then sink to the bottom.

Three weeks ago I tried treating him with E.M. Erythromycin. He did not respond. Last week I tried treating him with lifeguard, and he didn't respond to that, either. After medicating him with the Lifeguard, I did a 25% water change. He still was lethargic. I'd try feeding him, and he would try to go after the pellets, sometimes he'd get one, other times he wouldn't. I think the high ammonia might be all of the decaying food on the bottom of the tank over the last couple of weeks. Remove any and all waste accumulating at the bottom.

Bottom line is I screwed up, due to my ignorance and inexperience. He's still alive, but I have no idea what the real problem is.

He's currently in the 2nd tank because I was under the impression this might be a bacteria infection issue. I thawed out a frozen blood worm and put it in front of him this morning. He didn't go after it - however - when I got out of the shower, he had moved and I couldn't see the blood worm. I think he ate it.

I tested the ammonia before I left for work. It's at 0. I didn't have time to check the nitrite and nitrate. I'll do that this evening.

I appreciate all of the feedback.

Thank you.

Keep him a bare-bottom tank if you aren't already (or just take out the substrate), so you can see waste and food. Both to check if he eats and moreso that you have an easy time vacuuming and taking out leftovers. Start doing daily water changes, and don't let up. Make sure to temp match water and don't forget conditioner.

 

[Momgoose56]

I thought the water was OK, too. But I was relying on test strips. Lesson learned.

I'm not entirely sure that ammonia poisoning is what started this ordeal, however. He was fine, but there was black gunk on the center column of my tank, so I took out my 2nd, smaller tank, filled it with water, treated it, put a heater in it, and waited about an hour. I then put my betta into the 2nd tank. I did a 100% water change and cleaned all of the black gunk I could see on the tank. I refilled the main tank, treated the water, and then put my betta back into the main tank - however - I foolishly did not wait and I'm pretty sure the water was a lot warmer than the 78 he is used to.
The next day he was lethargic and his face had turned white. Over time his fins started to become translucent. He would swim, but then sink to the bottom.

Three weeks ago I tried treating him with E.M. Erythromycin. He did not respond. Last week I tried treating him with lifeguard, and he didn't respond to that, either. After medicating him with the Lifeguard, I did a 25% water change. He still was lethargic. I'd try feeding him, and he would try to go after the pellets, sometimes he'd get one, other times he wouldn't. I think the high ammonia might be all of the decaying food on the bottom of the tank over the last couple of weeks.

Bottom line is I screwed up, due to my ignorance and inexperience. He's still alive, but I have no idea what the real problem is.

He's currently in the 2nd tank because I was under the impression this might be a bacteria infection issue. I thawed out a frozen blood worm and put it in front of him this morning. He didn't go after it - however - when I got out of the shower, he had moved and I couldn't see the blood worm. I think he ate it.

I tested the ammonia before I left for work. It's at 0. I didn't have time to check the nitrite and nitrate. I'll do that this evening.

I appreciate all of the feedback.

Thank you.

Fish change color when they're stressed "white face" and the "translucent fins" can be part of that. He looks extremely skinny as well. His fins are clamped so it's hard to see the condition they're in right now but that too is a sign of stress. The "black gunk" was probably decayed detritus or some kind of algae. I think the problem is, by deep cleaning the tank, coupled with treatment with amm antibiotic (that kills bacteria) any beneficial bacteria was killed or removed. You probably have been replacing filter cartridges regularly as well. Because that is where the bulk of nitrifying or beneficial bacteria (bb) grows, every time you replace those cartridges, you throw away any bb that might be growing there. He may have reacted to the temp change when you initially cleaned the tank but that shouldn't have caused such a sudden and rapid decline in a healthy fish. This looks more like a long term problem with water quality. You've had this betta for 2.5 years in a small tank. At minimum, in a tank that size, because some food doesn't get eaten, and the fish poops, at least 25% of the water should be replaced every week with new dechlorinated water. The substrate should be thoroughly vacuumed at least once a month to remove detritus from decaying food and feces, and the filter cartridge should be rinsed in dechlorinated water and placed back in the filter. This is the ideal scenario to maintain a cycled tank. Right now, the main problem is that your fish is suffering from a possible illness secondary to stress and symptoms of ammonia poisoning. And in addition to that, his tank no longer contains any beneficial bacteria to handle ammonia and nitrite that are produced.

What you'll need to do with him in the smaller hospital tank, (how many gallons is that?) is partial water changes (50%) at least every couple days to keep ammonia at 0ppm, and treat symptoms as they arise. You can re-cycle his main tank in the mean time with pure ammonia (withoutdetergents, coloring, scents or surfactants) ACE Hardware carrys their own brand of pure ammonia FYI.
Is he any better this morning?

 

[GoPats1981]

Thank you for the replies. He wasn't better this morning. Just laying there, with his gills moving ever so often. He moved a little, but not much.

The hospital tank is 1.5 gallons. The main tank is 3.5 gallons. I will perform 50% water changes in the hospital tank for the foreseeable future. There is no substrate on the bottom of the hospital tank, however I did put an old fake plant in there to give him some cover. He likes to hide behind it. There's a heater in there, too. The temp was at 81 degrees last night and this morning.

As for cycling the main tank, I'm nervous about it. How do I do it? Do I remove the water? Do I rinse the filter with de-chlorinated water? How much ammonia do I put in there? Why would I put more in there if it's already at 1.0 ppm? I thought I wanted it to go down?

 

[PascalKrypt]

Thank you for the replies. He wasn't better this morning. Just laying there, with his gills moving ever so often. He moved a little, but not much.

The hospital tank is 1.5 gallons. The main tank is 3.5 gallons. I will perform 50% water changes in the hospital tank for the foreseeable future. There is no substrate on the bottom of the hospital tank, however I did put an old fake plant in there to give him some cover. He likes to hide behind it. There's a heater in there, too. The temp was at 81 degrees last night and this morning.

As for cycling the main tank, I'm nervous about it. How do I do it? Do I remove the water? Do I rinse the filter with de-chlorinated water? How much ammonia do I put in there? Why would I put more in there if it's already at 1.0 ppm? I thought I wanted it to go down?

Have you read the article about the nitrogen cycle? (you can click to read it)
Ammonia is converted to nitrite by bacteria that eat it. So if your tank has 1ppm ammonia now, you can just leave it alone. Test your tank ammonia and nitrite levels frequently (not strips, liquid). It can take several weeks for nitrite to start appearing. When ammonia levels drop (<0.5), dose another 1ppm. As nitrite levels rise, another group of bacteria will start to grow and convert it to nitrate. That will also take several weeks to grow. Once you get to the point where you have to dose ammonia daily, and is converted from ammonia -> nitrate in one go, without nitrite appearing, that is when your tank is fully cycled and you can put your betta back in.

 

[Momgoose56]

Thank you for the replies. He wasn't better this morning. Just laying there, with his gills moving ever so often. He moved a little, but not much.

The hospital tank is 1.5 gallons. The main tank is 3.5 gallons. I will perform 50% water changes in the hospital tank for the foreseeable future. There is no substrate on the bottom of the hospital tank, however I did put an old fake plant in there to give him some cover. He likes to hide behind it. There's a heater in there, too. The temp was at 81 degrees last night and this morning.

As for cycling the main tank, I'm nervous about it. How do I do it? Do I remove the water? Do I rinse the filter with de-chlorinated water? How much ammonia do I put in there? Why would I put more in there if it's already at 1.0 ppm? I thought I wanted it to go down?

The nitrifying bacteria that you want growing in the tank use ammonia and nitrites as fuel (food). They are everywhere in the environment. They are responsible for the breakdown of compost, the decay of vegetation in the woods, the nitrification (in part) of silage (cattle feed) and the homeostasis of aquatic environments. All you need to do, to grow that bacteria in an aquarium, is provide moving, dechlorinated water (that has dissolved oxygen in it) and an ammonia source. The bacteria will start growing and attaching itself to porous surfaces (mainly your filter media where water flow is best). Ammonia (NH3) is ammonia whether it comes from decaying plants, animals, fish poop or from a bottle. Most fish keeping enthusiasts agree that cycling a tank (growing an adequate colony of these bacteria to handle the ammonia produced by a given number of fish) without fish, using pure ammonia, is faster, easier, cleaner and more humane than using fish and their waste in the tank as a source of ammonia.
So, the way I and many others cycle a tank is we add a given amount of ammonia to the fishless tank (you already have 1 ppm in your tank from your bettas decayed waste) and wait. And wait. Nitrifying bacteria are among the slowest growing bacteria there are, so it takes time and patience to cycle a tank. That's why it's such a big deal that you preserve and protect that bacteria in your tank when you do water changes (chlorine will kill it) and when you treat fish with antibiotics (some antibiotics will kill it too). It can take, on average, 4 weeks to cycle a tank under the best conditions. We can help you do this.

 

[GoPats1981]

The nitrifying bacteria that you want growing in the tank use ammonia and nitrites as fuel (food). They are everywhere in the environment. They are responsible for the breakdown of compost, the decay of vegetation in the woods, the nitrification (in part) of silage (cattle feed) and the homeostasis of aquatic environments. All you need to do, to grow that bacteria in an aquarium, is provide moving, dechlorinated water (that has dissolved oxygen in it) and an ammonia source. The bacteria will start growing and attaching itself to porous surfaces (mainly your filter media where water flow is best). Ammonia (NH3) is ammonia whether it comes from decaying plants, animals, fish poop or from a bottle. Most fish keeping enthusiasts agree that cycling a tank (growing an adequate colony of these bacteria to handle the ammonia produced by a given number of fish) without fish, using pure ammonia, is faster, easier, cleaner and more humane than using fish and their waste in the tank as a source of ammonia.
So, the way I and many others cycle a tank is we add a given amount of ammonia to the fishless tank (you already have 1 ppm in your tank from your bettas decayed waste) and wait. And wait. Nitrifying bacteria are among the slowest growing bacteria there are, so it takes time and patience to cycle a tank. That's why it's such a big deal that you preserve and protect that bacteria in your tank when you do water changes (chlorine will kill it) and when you treat fish with antibiotics (some antibiotics will kill it too). It can take, on average, 4 weeks to cycle a tank under the best conditions. We can help you do this.

Thank you so much. I am going to just leave my betta in the smaller tank for now until the main tank has proper read outs when I test it.

My betta was resting beside the fake plant this morning, but in a different position than he was last night. So he's still moving around at least. I'll try feeding him a frozen bloodworm this evening.

 

[Momgoose56]

Thank you so much. I am going to just leave my betta in the smaller tank for now until the main tank has proper read outs when I test it.

My betta was resting beside the fake plant this morning, but in a different position than he was last night. So he's still moving around at least. I'll try feeding him a frozen bloodworm this evening.

You can't just leave the other tank running with no ammonia source and expect it to cycle. You have to 'feed' the bacteria ammonia. If you don't, any beneficial bacteria already starting to become established will die. Get a bottle of pure ammonia (no detergents, surfactants, scents or dyes) and we can help you do that. ACE Hardware carrys their own brand of pure ammonia. Read the label. Pure ammonia should contain only ammonia and water.

 

[GoPats1981]

You can't just leave the other tank running with no ammonia source and expect it to cycle. You have to 'feed' the bacteria ammonia. If you don't, any beneficial bacteria already starting to become established will die. Get a bottle of pure ammonia (no detergents, surfactants, scents or dyes) and we can help you do that. ACE Hardware carrys their own brand of pure ammonia. Read the label. Pure ammonia should contain only ammonia and water.

No problem. I will buy some on my way home from work.

 

[GoPats1981]

I bought some ammonia. I haven’t used it in the main tank yet as I want to make sure I am doing it correctly. The main tank is about half full. Should I fill it all the way? How much ammonia should I put in? Should I leave the filter in? Should I leave the glass beads at the bottom in?

As for the 1.5 gallon hospital tank (which is also half full for ease to the surface), there is nothing on the bottom. Yesterday I tested the water and the values were:

Ph: 7.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Temperature: 82

I noticed there was debris on the bottom. I sucked up what I could. Doing this removed about half of the water, so I replaced the water after I treated it with water conditioner and safe start.

I tested the water this morning and the values were the same. The temperature dropped to 80, but that’s probably because the tank was in the dark overnight. I dropped a pellet and it landed in front of him, and he ate it!

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[GoPats1981]

I tested the water this morning, and the ammonia was at .25 ppm and the Nitrite was at .25 ppm. Nitrate was at 0. Also, I found two small pieces of his fin had sloughed off. I pulled them out with tweezers and the pieces were bleeding.

When I do the water changes, should I be adding Tetra Safe Start and Easy Balance and aquarium salt? That's what I've been doing since Friday, but my wife told me I should ask to make sure I'm not putting in chemicals when I shouldn't be.

Also, other than a water change, should I be doing anything else? Should I try and lower the Ph from 7.6? to 7.0? I've been reading that Bettas do best around 7.0.

Sorry for all of the questions, I just want to make sure that I'm doing this correctly.

 

[PascalKrypt]

You tested the water in the 1.5G tank with the betta? The one that had 0/0 ammonia/nitrites yesterday?
Or are these the results for the main tank that you are cycling?

 

[GoPats1981]

These are all test results for the smaller 1.5gal tank. I have't tested the main tank yet.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Getting a .25 reading on nitrites in what I understood as a bare tank, in one day, is a little strange. Could it be that you misjudged the colour or are you fairly sure? Is there anything in the tank besides fish and heater?

Do daily 50% water changes. Honestly, I can't stress this enough. While betta can definitely tolerate ammonia up to certain point (1, 1.5ppm won't kill a betta in the short run), nitrite is a different story. For an already sick fish even 0.2ppm is damaging to be exposed to.

Are you dosing with some kind of detoxifying conditioner like prime? If not, start doing that immediately.

Edit: Reading this
" The main tank is about half full. Should I fill it all the way? How much ammonia should I put in? Should I leave the filter in? Should I leave the glass beads at the bottom in? "
Makes me thing that you haven't yet fully grasped how the nitrogen cycle works. While we are naturally very happy to answer your questions, it will be easier on you (and your fish) if you try to learn a little more about it. Have you read the fishlore article on the nitrogen cycle?
The bacteria that form the cycle grow on surfaces. So water is irrelevant, aside from the surface area of tank walls that are under water vs. the amount of ammonia needed to achieve 1ppm. Anyhow, it is your filter mainly, and secondarily surfaces in your tank that you are cycling.
Cycling a bare tank without the filter is (nearly) pointless. And may be impossible, because there isn't enough surface area for bacteria colonies to process 1ppm by growing on the tank walls alone. There also leave in other things (such as substrate) that add to the surface area that you plan on leaving in your tank anyways.

 

[GoPats1981]

I tested the hospital tank's water again just to be sure. Ph had gone down to 6.2, Ammonia was at .25ppm, Nitrite was at .25, and Nitrate was at 0. I did a 50% water change. I have been and still use Tetra Safe Start, Tetra Aqua Safe, Tetra Easy Balance and some dissolved aquarium salt with each change. Since we're talking about a 1.5 gallon tank that is half full to make it easier for the Betta to reach the surface, a 50% water change is only .375 gallons. It's hard to measure out the appropriate amount of Tetra Safe Start, Tetra Aqua Safe, and Tetra Easy Balance. I use the smallest measuring spoon I own. I use just a pinch of salt and let it dissolve first before adding it into the tank. I also used the vacuum to clear out what looked like fish poop and an uneaten pellet.

With all of that said, it occurred to me that maybe I should be washing the beakers in the test kit with soap and water? Right now I just rinse them out with hot water and let them air dry. Perhaps that is affecting the readings?

And I have read up on the Nitrogen Cycle, and I have watched several videos about it. I'd like to get the main tank cycled. I guess the first question is whether I should try and cycle it full or half full, as my betta can't reach the surface when the tank is completely full due to his weakened state. The second question is how much ammonia should I be putting into the tank?

 

[PascalKrypt]

I tested the hospital tank's water again just to be sure. Ph had gone down to 6.2, Ammonia was at .25ppm, Nitrite was at .25, and Nitrate was at 0. I did a 50% water change. I have been and still use Tetra Safe Start, Tetra Aqua Safe, Tetra Easy Balance and some dissolved aquarium salt with each change. Since we're talking about a 1.5 gallon tank that is half full to make it easier for the Betta to reach the surface, a 50% water change is only .375 gallons. It's hard to measure out the appropriate amount of Tetra Safe Start, Tetra Aqua Safe, and Tetra Easy Balance. I use the smallest measuring spoon I own. I use just a pinch of salt and let it dissolve first before adding it into the tank. I also used the vacuum to clear out what looked like fish poop and an uneaten pellet.

With all of that said, it occurred to me that maybe I should be washing the beakers in the test kit with soap and water? Right now I just rinse them out with hot water and let them air dry. Perhaps that is affecting the readings?

And I have read up on the Nitrogen Cycle, and I have watched several videos about it. I'd like to get the main tank cycled. I guess the first question is whether I should try and cycle it full or half full, as my betta can't reach the surface when the tank is completely full due to his weakened state. The second question is how much ammonia should I be putting into the tank?

Okay, so now we are getting somewhere.

I think you posted before, on *Sunday* that that water has a PH of 7.6. Is that correct? So you went from 7.6 to 6.2 in two or three days?
If so, we may have found the actual problem your betta is struggling with (other than elevated nitrite levels) - PH crashes.
Never try to manually adjust your PH values unless you are keeping extremely sensitive fish that will not survive outside of what you have (which for betta and most common aquarium fish, means that anything between 6 and 8.5 should not be touched). It has killed quite a lot of fish when PH up and down products cause violent PH swings as seems to be happening in your tank. Are you using any of these kinds of products? If so, please stop immediately.
It sounds like your hospital tank is in the middle of cycling, what with it producing nitrate (meaning nitrifying bacteria are present, but not yet the type that turn nitrite into nitrate). This is probably due to the BBS that you are dosing. I would not dose this in your hospital tank, as you don't actually want to do a fish in cycle here. Nitrite is much more dangerous than ammonia, so it would be better for just ammonia to be produced in an uncycled tank that you remove through water changes than to have a QT in the process of cycling constantly create rising nitrite levels.

Also, stop dosing aquarium salt. Labyrinth fish take to salt very poorly, though it can be used to medicate fin rot and other external problems I would only use it for a very short period of time, then quit dosing if it doesn't make the problem go away. Especially when dosing such a small volume of water overdoses are likely.

I had to look up what all those tetra products do, other than conditioning the water and adding BBS (if you are lucky). Stop using Easy Balance for now. It contains PH-adjustment products which may be contributing to your PH crashes and making your fish worse. Also not too sure about the Aquasafe as a conditioner, the online description boasts that it adds "minerals and vitamins" to your water, I have no idea what that entails. Do you have any other conditioner available, preferably one that detoxifies ammonia and nitrite at low levels, such as seachem prime (or others, do a google search and read descriptions)?
Generally in this hobby, less is more. If you don't know how something works or if it is a useful addition, you usually want to stay away from it. The less you mess with your water, the more stable it is, which is best for your fish.


This is a haphazard post on information. To sum it up:
- Your tank has wildly fluctuating parameters and elevated nitrite levels. This is actively making your fish ill (especially the first). We need to sort this out before he can begin to recover.
- Stop addition of all products that can affect PH in the QT - do not dose PH up/down products and stop dosing Easy Balance.
- Stop using aquarium salt in the QT
- Stop using BBS in the QT. You don't actually want it to cycle.
- Just use conditioner for the QT water and nothing else. Continue doing daily water changes.

- Measure tap water parameters (I hope you also happen to have GH and KH tests in your kit, they would be very handy right about now) and then tank parameters and compare. They should be virtually the same on a tank that gets daily water changes done, or something is very wrong.

Fluctuating parameters are bad - that includes temperature. Your temperature seems to fluctuate a lot, which is not strange given that you are heating a very small volume of water (~ 1/2 a gallon). Personally I do not use in-tank heaters for any water volume lower than 2 gallons because the tank temp will not be stable. It is better to put the heater in a larger tank and float the smaller tank in it (which you could do with QT and main tank if the QT is plastic?). If that is not possible, make sure to keep the tank free of drafts (you wrap a towel around it if you cannot move it to a better spot in case it is drafty) and set the heater lower, so that it is closer to room temperature which makes it less likely to cause temp swings. Around 76F would be a good goal temp.


I'm sorry about drawing conclusions on the nitrogen cycle. It can be hard to effectively take in all that information and draw conclusions from that, I should not have assumed that you did not research. My bad. Dose the tank with 1ppm ammonia. Is there any info on the bottle about how diluted the stuff is, or much dosage is in a drop, etc.? (not sure what kind of bottle you have).

 

[GoPats1981]

This is a haphazard post on information. To sum it up:
- Your tank has wildly fluctuating parameters and elevated nitrite levels. This is actively making your fish ill (especially the first). We need to sort this out before he can begin to recover.
- Stop addition of all products that can affect PH in the QT - do not dose PH up/down products and stop dosing Easy Balance.
- Stop using aquarium salt in the QT
- Stop using BBS in the QT. You don't actually want it to cycle.
- Just use conditioner for the QT water and nothing else. Continue doing daily water changes.

- Measure tap water parameters (I hope you also happen to have GH and KH tests in your kit, they would be very handy right about now) and then tank parameters and compare. They should be virtually the same on a tank that gets daily water changes done, or something is very wrong.

Fluctuating parameters are bad - that includes temperature. Your temperature seems to fluctuate a lot, which is not strange given that you are heating a very small volume of water (~ 1/2 a gallon). Personally I do not use in-tank heaters for any water volume lower than 2 gallons because the tank temp will not be stable. It is better to put the heater in a larger tank and float the smaller tank in it (which you could do with QT and main tank if the QT is plastic?). If that is not possible, make sure to keep the tank free of drafts (you wrap a towel around it if you cannot move it to a better spot in case it is drafty) and set the heater lower, so that it is closer to room temperature which makes it less likely to cause temp swings. Around 76F would be a good goal temp.

I'm sorry about drawing conclusions on the nitrogen cycle. It can be hard to effectively take in all that information and draw conclusions from that, I should not have assumed that you did not research. My bad. Dose the tank with 1ppm ammonia. Is there any info on the bottle about how diluted the stuff is, or much dosage is in a drop, etc.? (not sure what kind of bottle you have).

Thank you for the information! I truly appreciate it. I will follow these instructions to a T. The kit that I bought is: The API Master Test Kit . I'm not sure if it measures GH and KH. If I need to get a better kit, I will. Any recommendations?

Unfortunately the hospital tank is made of glass and won't fit inside the main tank because there is a plastic center column in the main tank. I'll try the other option you mentioned.

No worries about drawing conclusions. Based upon my prior posts, it is evident I'm still learning so I take no offense about your making conclusions.

I purchased almond leaves on Amazon today. Should I still put one inside of the tank?

 

[PascalKrypt]

Thank you for the information! I truly appreciate it. I will follow these instructions to a T. The kit that I bought is: The API Master Test Kit . I'm not sure if it measures GH and KH. If I need to get a better kit, I will. Any recommendations?

Unfortunately the hospital tank is made of glass and won't fit inside the main tank because there is a plastic center column in the main tank. I'll try the other option you mentioned.

No worries about drawing conclusions. Based upon my prior posts, it is evident I'm still learning so I take no offense about your making conclusions.

I purchased almond leaves on Amazon today. Should I still put one inside of the tank?

Yes, you can still put the almond leaves in. Their effect on PH is neglible, just cut a piece (1/4 or so) of a leaf and put it in. It is mostly the tannins (tea staining colour in the water) that you want, they are antibacterial (not in the sense of curing an illness, but they measurably lower bacterial colony counts in the water column and can help prevent new infections on the damaged fins of a betta).

That kit is great, nothing wrong with the tests that are in it, but personally I consider the standard set to be slightly wider (and include GH and KH tests), which the API kit you have does not contain. If you could buy the loose tests somewhere, that would be great. You can skip the GH test, actually, it is mostly the KH that I want you to measure. Water with low KH (which some people have from the tap) can cause PH swings as well, and if this turns out to be the case for you, you'll need to do something about it.
I think it is not super likely, because you kept the betta without trouble before, but I think it would be better to rule it out.

Okay, well that means you'll have to make due with what you have in terms of tank temp. Personally I would rather expose a healthy betta to a stable temp just above room temp (~73F) than to leave it sitting in fluctuating high temperatures, but yours is already ill and decreasing the temperature drastically now could make its condition worse, so I don't advise it.
What wattage is on that heater? (better yet, if you can link me to the exact model that would help too). Is it near a window or door, or next to the kitchen?
How tall is the QT tank you have, and at what height do you have the water level now? I would even consider filling the tank back up a little more because greater volume = both more stable temps and better water quality, versus ofcourse the betta having to spend more energy to swim.. hmm..

How is he doing today?

 

[GoPats1981]

The heater that I am using for the smaller tank is a Aqueon Aquatic Flat Heater 7.5 watts. The heater that I have in the main tank is a Tetra HT10 50 watt heater.

Values from last night:

Ph 6.4, Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, temperature 81 degrees.

I did a 50 percent water change, making sure that the new water was the same temperature. I only used water conditioner, as per your instructions. I'm not sure about the exact height of the smaller tank. If I had to venture a guess I'd say about a foot. I filled the tank about 2/3 of the way for more stable temps and better water quality. He can swim up into the plant and rest on it (I've seen him do this a few times), so it seems he can just do that to help him reach the surface.

He is doing about the same. Just hangs out at the bottom, hiding under the plant, or next to the heater.

 

[PascalKrypt]

The heater that I am using for the smaller tank is a Aqueon Aquatic Flat Heater 7.5 watts. The heater that I have in the main tank is a Tetra HT10 50 watt heater.

Values from last night:

Ph 6.4, Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, temperature 81 degrees.

I did a 50 percent water change, making sure that the new water was the same temperature. I only used water conditioner, as per your instructions. I'm not sure about the exact height of the smaller tank. If I had to venture a guess I'd say about a foot. I filled the tank about 2/3 of the way for more stable temps and better water quality. He can swim up into the plant and rest on it (I've seen him do this a few times), so it seems he can just do that to help him reach the surface.

He is doing about the same. Just hangs out at the bottom, hiding under the plant, or next to the heater.

I doubt a 1.5 gallon is a foot tall, or it must be a design that is taller than it is long or wide.
Nice, a 7.5 heater! Not bad at all, I wasn't expecting you would actually have a suitable heater for such a small tank volume. That should be better that the situation I was thinking about.

Did you run a test on your tap water yet? Even if you don't have KH yet, I would like to know your tap PH and ammonia level.

Rest sounds all good.

 

[GoPats1981]

I have not tested the tap water. But I will do that tonight. Attached is a photo of the tank/bowl he is currently in just to give you an idea of how large the smaller tank is, and how it is set up. You can see my betta laying on his side by the base of the plant. Also, the paper plate is to protect against things getting into the water. I used a knife to poke holes in the plate to allow air to flow through.