Am I Cycled?/ammonia reading?

[Kitcatkady]

Hello All,

I have a 20 g tank with a male betta and six guppies. I have not been able to get true yellow ammonia reading using the api master kit. The tank has been running for two weeks. I for the past four days I have been dosing with stability and prime. For the past week my numbers have been the same:
Ph 6.8
NI. O
Ammonia .25
NA. 10

temp is 77

I have tested my my tape water. According to the api it’s also .25. I’m quite confused. I don’t see my numbers changing. Does this mean I’m cycled and it’s a problem with the test or my reading the test? it’s been a week since my last water change. I feel like my tank must be dealing with the ammonia. Given my parameters, should I do a water change?

thanks for the help!

Here’s a pic. I should also say I used a cycle starter on the first day which was about 2.5 weeks ago.

 

[Freshfishguy]

Hello All,

I have a 20 g tank with a male betta and six guppies. I have not been able to get true yellow ammonia reading using the api master kit. The tank has been running for two weeks. I for the past four days I have been dosing with stability and prime. For the past week my numbers have been the same:
Ph 6.8
NI. O
Ammonia .25
NA. 10

temp is 77

I have tested my my tape water. According to the api it’s also .25. I’m quite confused. I don’t see my numbers changing. Does this mean I’m cycled and it’s a problem with the test or my reading the test? it’s been a week since my last water change. I feel like my tank must be dealing with the ammonia. Given my parameters, should I do a water change?

thanks for the help!

Don’t do a water change, .25 and under for ammonia isn’t going to seriously harm the fish with short term exposure. Can you post clear pictures of the tests in good lighting for your tap water and for your tank?

Also, for Prime to control ammonia and nitrite you only need to dose double the normal amount every 48 hours/2 days, you don’t need to dose every day just so you know.

Here’s a pic. I should also say I used a cycle starter on the first day which was about 2.5 weeks ago.

Okay, and that is the tank water or is it the water straight out of the tap?

 

[Kitcatkady]

That’s the tank water, but the tap water comes out looking the same.

 

[phnx314]

Api freshwater master kit has a history of reading 0.25 all the time, so I wouldn’t panic over it.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks. That’s helpful. so just I just consider that zero and watch for spikes above that?

 

[Freshfishguy]

Okay, don’t worry about the nitrates for now until you are cycled, then we can get those down. Short term exposure to nitrates can go as high as 50-60ppm and maybe more and be totally fine for the fish.

I would say keep dosing stability like it says on the directions for the full 7 days and dose prime every other day while you still have an ammonia reading. Every morning, test your water and your tank water should eventually read 0 ammonia even if your tap water has ammonia because the bacteria will cycle the ammonia in the tank. Once you have 0 ammonia in your tank water, you can do a 50% water change every day until you have your nitrates down.

 

[phnx314]

Thanks. That’s helpful. so just I just consider that zero and watch for spikes above that?

If it continues to stay like that for a while and you’re certain you’re cycled, yes.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Sounds great! Will do. Thanks so much for the advice everyone.

 

[mattgirl]

I am going to go against the grain here. Maybe it is just the lighting I am seeing but that ammonia reading looks much higher than .25 to me. It looks closer to somewhere between .5 and 1.0 Since there are fish in this tank and you haven't done a water change in at least a week I highly recommend you change out no less than 50% of the water today.

The bacteria you are growing doesn't live in the water so changing some of it can only help. Prime is a good product and I do highly recommend it when doing a fish in cycle but I recommend using it in conjunction with water changes instead of using it instead of doing water changes.

As long as you add Prime to the water and temp match it before pouring it in the tank a water change will not cause a problem with your growing bacteria. It can only help. Even though you are adding bottled bacteria you are still very early in your cycle.

Keep a very close eye on both ammonia and nitrites. At about 3 weeks you may experience the nitrite spike. You may not. Some folks say they never see the nitrite spike when using some brands of bottled bacteria. Don't be shocked to see it go from 0 to 5 seemingly over night. At that point you want to keep your water changing equipment handy. You will want to keep the nitrites as low as possible and that may take daily water changes.

Right now the cycle is important but the safety of your fish has to be your top priority. Keeping the ammonia and/or nitrites as low as possible will be the best thing you can do for your water pets. I wouldn't be overly concerned about nitrates at this point. What you want to see is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and at the end some nitrates.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks for your advice. I just checked thank again. Here’s a pick of two vials the first is my tap water the second is my tank water. They looks the same to me. Do you still recommend a water change? Everyone seems happy, hungry, and active.

 

[Freshfishguy]

Thanks for your advice. I just checked thank again. Here’s a pick of two vials the first is my tap water the second is my tank water. They looks the same to me. Do you still recommend a water change? Everyone seems happy, hungry, and active.

Best case scenario to spoil your fish and have them thrive you should change the water every week, but at least every other week. Every other week is good, but it isn't the most ideal, because there are other good aspects that clean water provides for fish besides lowering nitrates. Just keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites to make sure they don't go up any higher is the main thing.

 

[mattgirl]

Thanks for your advice. I just checked thank again. Here’s a pick of two vials the first is my tap water the second is my tank water. They looks the same to me. Do you still recommend a water change? Everyone seems happy, hungry, and active.

It looks to me like you do have some ammonia in your tap water. Thankfully it isn't as high as some I've seen. this looks to me like no less than .5 Prime will detox it so it isn't going to be as harmful to your little guys as it would without it. Once the tank is fully cycled the ammonia in your source water isn't going to be a problem. Prime will detox it and your ammonia eating bacteria will clear it out pretty quick.

Yes, I still recommend you do a water change if it has been a week since the last one. In my humble opinion fresh clean water is the very best thing one can give their fish to keep them safe and healthy. The fish may seem healthy and active but we can't see the damage the ammonia may be causing them. With just one betta and 6 guppies in a 20 gallon tank you may not have to do as big a water change each week as someone with many more fish in their tank but I do still recommend one be done each week and then once a month do a much bigger water change.

I consider this bigger water change a reset. There are things other than just nitrates building up in our tanks. Things most of us don't test for. By doing the bigger once monthly water change we get ahead of that buildup and prevent problems down the road. When I say bigger I mean about 75% or more of the water.

For now though keep a very close eye on both ammonia and nitrites. Even if you keep seeing the same numbers you are seeing right now a weekly water change should keep things running smoothly. If you start to see nitrite spike try your best to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites one or below with water changes.

 

[Lindsay83]

Thanks for your advice. I just checked thank again. Here’s a pick of two vials the first is my tap water the second is my tank water. They looks the same to me. Do you still recommend a water change? Everyone seems happy, hungry, and active.

The one on the left looks like it's 1ppm to me. The other one looks like 0.5. Definitely add Prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite.

Best case scenario to spoil your fish and have them thrive you should change the water every week, but at least every other week. Every other week is good, but it isn't the most ideal, because there are other good aspects that clean water provides for fish besides lowering nitrates. Just keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites to make sure they don't go up any higher is the main thing.

OP needs to be doing water changes much more regularly than once every other week if she has traces of ammonia in her tank.

 

[Freshfishguy]

The one on the left looks like it's 1ppm to me. The other one looks like 0.5. Definitely add Prime to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite.



OP needs to be doing water changes much more regularly than once every other week if she has traces of ammonia in her tank.

I said once a week is ideal. She is using prime to detoxify also. @mattgirl’s advice is sound though and puts it best.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks everyone. Doing a water change to be safe. I currently have NO nitrites. The vial is a perfect blue. I added stability this morning. Would you recommend I dose it again after the water change or wait till morning? My understand is you can’t overdose on stability. I’ll add prime to water chance of course.

 

[mattgirl]

Thanks everyone. Doing a water change to be safe. I currently have NO nitrites. The vial is a perfect blue. I added stability this morning. Would you recommend I dose it again after the water change or wait till morning? My understand is you can’t overdose on stability. I’ll add prime to water chance of course.

I would go ahead and add the Stability after the water change. Like you said, I don't think you can overdose the bottled bacteria.

Go ahead and add enough Prime to treat the full 20 gallons of water. Once the cycle is complete you only need enough for the amount of water you are replacing.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks everyone. Changed out 6 of the 20 gallons and dosed with stability and prime. Here’s a pick of the happy campers:

 

[Freshfishguy]

Thanks everyone. Changed out 6 of the 20 gallons and dosed with stability and prime. Here’s a pick of the happy campers:

LOVE the Groot deco!

 

[Kitcatkady]

Okay, so I tested the tank again this morning. I dosed with Stability again, but didn’t add more Prime since I did that last night. Here are my readings:

ph. 7.6 (that’s from the tap water. I have some moss balls in there which have been bringing it down. I know it’s not ideal when you’ve got any ammonia)
Ammonia hovering around .25
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0

here’s a pic for reference. I’m confused, do I have ammonia eating bacteria, but just not enough to keep up? I never saw a nitrite spike. I’m guessing I just missed it. I’ve never gotten a true yellow ammonia either. On the other hand, I waited a week to do the water change and the ammonia never got any higher than 1, if that. Even after a week with no water changes, tested my tap water and it comes out the same color as my tank water. I’m willing to be patient if I’m not cycled yet, I’m just confused. If it’s not cycled I’m wondering why I haven’t seen true ammonia spike. Seems like with seven fish I would get a spike. I’ve been reading about false positives. One last thing, I happen to have some ammonia test strips and did one for the heck of it. That is coming up with no ammonia. Any thoughts?

 

[Freshfishguy]

Okay, so I tested the tank again this morning. I dosed with Stability again, but didn’t add more Prime since I did that last night. Here are my readings:

ph. 7.6 (that’s from the tap water. I have some moss balls in there which have been bringing it down. I know it’s not ideal when you’ve got any ammonia)
Ammonia hovering around .25
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0

here’s a pic for reference. I’m confused, do I have ammonia eating bacteria, but just not enough to keep up? I never saw a nitrite spike. I’m guessing I just missed it. I’ve never gotten a true yellow ammonia either. On the other hand, I waited a week to do the water change and the ammonia never got any higher than 1, if that. Even after a week with no water changes, tested my tap water and it comes out the same color as my tank water. I’m willing to be patient if I’m not cycled yet, I’m just confused. If it’s not cycled I’m wondering why I haven’t seen true ammonia spike. Seems like with seven fish I would get a spike. I’ve been reading about false positives. One last thing, I happen to have some ammonia test strips and did one for the heck of it. That is coming up with no ammonia. Any thoughts?

You can miss spikes/not get them when you use bacteria additives. My first time cycling was very similar and very confusing for me too. Did you make sure to vigorously shake the 2nd bottle of nitrate test solution? You have to slam the bottom of it against your hand or a surface and really give it a vigorous shake because it has particulates that can settle and get stuck at the bottom of the bottle.

 

[Kitcatkady]

I did shake the nitrate bottle hard for a full 30 seconds, but I’ll add the palm hits . I guess I’ll just wait and watch. I’m really hoping I’m almost done cycling. I guess time will tell

 

[Freshfishguy]

I did shake the nitrate bottle hard for a full 30 seconds, but I’ll add the palm hits . I guess I’ll just wait and watch. I’m really hoping I’m almost done cycling. I guess time will tell

Yup just gotta be patient and test every day, you’ll know in the next week to two weeks .

 

[mattgirl]

You are still early in the cycling process. I know it is very stressful knowing that if we aren't on top of things our water pets will suffer because of it. Even when using bottled bacteria it isn't unusual for a cycle to take a month or more to complete.

With just one betta and 6 guppies in 20 gallons of water the ammonia level isn't going to spike overly high if you aren't over feeding them. I know it is easier said than done but hopefully you will be able to relax and enjoy this process.

The numbers you are seeing shouldn't be harmful for your fish. Just keep them there and before you know it this cycle will be done. During this time it will be best if you don't do anything with your filter media or any cleaning of the substrate. Bacteria is growing and attaching itself to the media and on every surface in this tank. When you do your water changes either dip or siphon the water out but leave any build up that may be on the substrate alone.

If it were me I would be changing out at least 30% of the water every third day. With each water change I would be adding enough Prime to treat the full 20 gallons of water. I don't think I would be testing the water daily, 'specially for nitrates. Nitrates will eventually show up. Testing for them this early in the cycling process is just a waste of testing solution and will have you pulling you hair out each time you don't see any.

You can continue adding Stability but I am not convinced that is of much help. The good thing though is it shouldn't hurt and it MAY help. I've never used it but I am thinking the recommended use is add it daily for 7 days and then again with each water change from now on. If it actually worked there would be no need to continue adding it once a cycle is complete. Sadly I think that recommendation is just to keep selling more of it.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks. That helps me feel better. I’ll just wait it out. Not like we’re going anywhere anytime soon

 

[Kitcatkady]

Update:

So, I did a water change on 4/28. Haven’t changed the water since.
Tested the water this morning and here are my readings:

Temp ranges between 77 and 78
ph 7
Ammonia .25 maybe a bit less, but still not yellow
Nitrites: 0. it’s definitely blue
Nitrates: 5 maybe a bit less but definitely not yellow

Still dosing with Stability and prime. Tomorrow will be seven days of Stability and the tank running for two weeks. I should add that I used a Bactria starter on day one and transferred some gravel and some plastic plants from a tank that had been running for two weeks before that. The water has looked a little cloudy today and yesterday. I’m hoping this a sign of a bacterial bloom.

Here are my questions:

1) Is my cycle stalled? I don’t feel like any of the numbers are moving. If it is, should I do something? (I assume I’m not cycled and getting a false .25 reading)
2) should I do a water change or leave it alone? I’ve tested my tap water and it has at least .25 of ammonia.

 

[mattgirl]

Update:

So, I did a water change on 4/28. Haven’t changed the water since.
Tested the water this morning and here are my readings:

Temp ranges between 77 and 78
ph 7
Ammonia .25 maybe a bit less, but still not yellow
Nitrites: 0. it’s definitely blue
Nitrates: 5 maybe a bit less but definitely not yellow

Still dosing with Stability and prime. Tomorrow will be seven days of Stability and the tank running for two weeks. I should add that I used a Bactria starter on day one and transferred some gravel and some plastic plants from a tank that had been running for two weeks before that. The water has looked a little cloudy today and yesterday. I’m hoping this a sign of a bacterial bloom.

Here are my questions:

1) Is my cycle stalled? I don’t feel like any of the numbers are moving. If it is, should I do something? (I assume I’m not cycled and getting a false .25 reading)
2) should I do a water change or leave it alone? I’ve tested my tap water and it has at least .25 of ammonia.

I don't think you are stalled. If you were your ammonia would be going up. I don't think you need to do a water change just yet. I would stop adding stability after the full 7 day treatment and just give this tank some time.

The cloudiness could be a bacterial bloom. It is difficult to say for sure. Now it is a matter of lots of time and patience. I don't think you need to be adding Prime except when you do a water changes as long as you are getting these numbers.

As long as you are seeing the ammonia level a bit less than .25 and aren't seeing any nitrites I recommend you don't do a water change at this point. Even if these numbers hold for 2 weeks I don't recommend a water change. At the end of 2 weeks since your last water change I will recommend one even if the numbers haven't changed.

By starting this tank with a bac.booster and then adding stability it is possible you won't see a nitrite spike. If that is the case you will know your cycle is done when the ammonia drops to zero and your nitrates are steady going up. They aren't going to spike quickly with the low bio-load you have in this tank but they will go up eventually.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Okay. Thanks. I’ll hold off. Feels weird to do nothing, other than feed and test I guess I’ve got tortoise of a tank. Slow and steady wins the race .

Is it possible I don’t have enough ammonia to feed/grow the BB? I guess if that were I would be stalled also why you’re suggesting no water change?

 

[Freshfishguy]

Okay. Thanks. I’ll hold off. Feels weird to do nothing, other than feed and test I guess I’ve got tortoise of a tank. Slow and steady wins the race .

Is it possible I don’t have enough ammonia to feed/grow the BB? I guess if that were I would be stalled also why you’re suggesting no water change?

Stalling happens when PH drops too low (around 6)/ammonia or nitrites get too high. Like mattgirl said, 2 weeks or so is not that long into the cycling process. My recent tank I started took 3.5-4 weeks to cycle even with adding bacteria. Best and fastest way to cycle so you know moving forward is a fishless cycle with pure ammonia and seeding a new tank with old filter media + a bacteria additive.

You just have to be patient , most important thing is that your fish all seem to be doing okay!

 

[mattgirl]

Okay. Thanks. I’ll hold off. Feels weird to do nothing, other than feed and test I guess I’ve got tortoise of a tank. Slow and steady wins the race .

Is it possible I don’t have enough ammonia to feed/grow the BB? I guess if that were I would be stalled also why you’re suggesting no water change?

You do have a very low bio-load in this tank. It will still grow bacteria but only enough to process the amount of ammonia the fish produce. I have to think you are growing bacteria. If your weren't the ammonia would be going up.

I am a firm believer in water changes in most cases but try to temper my recommendations on each individual tank. In this case we want to leave the ammonia in there to feed and grow bacteria. A water change right now would be removing food the bacteria needs.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks both of you. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your help. I’m okay with it taking time, I just want to make sure I’m not doing anything wrong. I don’t wanna make my little buddies suffer anymore than they have too. I sorta ended up over my head with this tank At least right now they seem really happy. Everyone has good color, good appetites and movement, and are all super friendly.

Okay... now, I have a question about my ph. On 4/9 I did a water change and my ph was 6.7 before the change. When I ran my tests the next day it was up to 7.6. it’s never been that high before. In the days since then my ph has been gradually coming back down. Today it is 7. I do have five moss balls in the tank. I’m guessing that is pulling he ph down. Anyway, on a whim I used the high range ph on my tap water and discovered it is 8.2. I understand that a ph in the 6s is safer as ammonia is more toxic at high ph. So my question is this: in the future should I be bring down the ph in my tap water before adding it so I don’t shock the fish or raise the ph? If so, do you have a favorite method? I’m worried about chasing a ph number, but that does seem like a large difference between we’re my tank is and the tap. I have never added any chemicals to bring the ph down that I know of. I’m hoping to add a school of Corydoras to the tank once it’s cycled. If changes anything.

 

[Freshfishguy]

Okay... now, I have a question about my ph. On 4/9 I did a water change and my ph was 6.7 before the change. When I ran my tests the next day it was up to 7.6. it’s never been that high before. In the days since then my ph has been gradually coming back down. Today it is 7. I do have five moss balls in the tank. I’m guessing that is pulling he ph down. Anyway, on a whim I used the high range ph on my tap water and discovered it is 8.2. I understand that a ph in the 6s is safer as ammonia is more toxic at high ph. So my question is this: in the future should I be bring down the ph in my tap water before adding it so I don’t shock the fish or raise the ph? If so, do you have a favorite method? I’m worried about chasing a ph number, but that does seem like a large difference between we’re my tank is and the tap. I have never added any chemicals to bring the ph down that I know of. I’m hoping to add a school of Corydoras to the tank once it’s cycled. If changes anything.

I would say don’t worry about it. As long as the fish seem to be doing okay that’s what matters. Focus on the cycling aspect right now. I’m not totally sure what’s going on though, so hopefully can chime in.

 

[mattgirl]

Okay... now, I have a question about my ph. On 4/9 I did a water change and my ph was 6.7 before the change. When I ran my tests the next day it was up to 7.6. it’s never been that high before. In the days since then my ph has been gradually coming back down. Today it is 7. I do have five moss balls in the tank. I’m guessing that is pulling he ph down. Anyway, on a whim I used the high range ph on my tap water and discovered it is 8.2. I understand that a ph in the 6s is safer as ammonia is more toxic at high ph. So my question is this: in the future should I be bring down the ph in my tap water before adding it so I don’t shock the fish or raise the ph? If so, do you have a favorite method? I’m worried about chasing a ph number, but that does seem like a large difference between we’re my tank is and the tap. I have never added any chemicals to bring the ph down that I know of. I’m hoping to add a school of Corydoras to the tank once it’s cycled. If changes anything.

I am sorry I missed this question yesterday What I would do is put some tap water in a container and let it set out over night. If you can, try to run an airstone in it for some circulation. I don't know that the air stone is a necessary step but I would think it would be best to closely mimic the water movement in the tank.

Run the PH test on the water straight out of the tap and again 24 hours later. It doesn't seem to be unusual for some folks PH to drop once in their tanks and also when they run this test. If it drops it is telling us that the water doesn't contain the proper buffering agents to hold the PH at a certain level. Normally when this happens folks find that their KH is pretty low. Adding some crushed coral to their filters often stabilizes the PH at the higher level.

Try the test and we will see where we need to go after that.

 

[Kitcatkady]

No problem. You have more going on in your life than my tank.
I’ve got water sitting out. We shall see tomorrow.

Good morning,

I tested the tap ph this morning. I did both regular and high range. My best guess is that it’s between 7.2 and 7.4. The high range was very light brown, not the 8.4 purple color I am getting right out of the tap. So...what, if anything, should I do here?

Everything else was fine.
Ammonia between .25-.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrates 10

Thanks!

 

[mattgirl]

OK. It looks like your tap water is lacking the buffers necessary to hold the PH at a steady number and as it gasses off the PH drops. What I would do is get some crushed coral. Put it in a media bag and run it in your filter. Rinse it first or it will spike your PH quickly. Rinsing it first gets the coral dust off of it. Start with 1/2 cup to begin with. This should hold the PH up to the same level you are seeing in the tap water you left sitting out. The CC will keep it from continuing to drop once it is in the tank.

The good thing about using CC is you don't have to do anything else for quite a while. The coral very slowly dissolves and eventually you will have to add more. I just add a little bit more every few months. I have very soft water and use it to add a bit of hardness to it.

We know the PH dropped in the tap water within 24 hours but you may want to run one more test and see just how quickly it happens. Set some more out and test it every couple of hours. I am thinking doing water change isn't going to be a problem even though tank and tap are so different because you are only changing out a percentage of the water. 'Specially if the PH in the tap water drops quickly.

I truly wish I knew a bit more about the affects of PH. I just know how to regulate it but can't say for absolute certainty that fish won't be bothered by the PH spiking a bit for a short time when water changes are done. I don't think it will be a problem but I can't swear to it. The only way I know of to completely prevent it is aging your tap water for 24 hours before each water change. By doing so you will be letting it gas off before pouring it in there.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Okay. I guess I’ll start by testing the tap water in increments. I’m not sure how to both leave water out and temp match. At the moment I only have a 2 gallon bucket so anything bigger than a 10% change requires multiple buckets.
The fish seemed just fine after the last water change which was 30%.

 

[mattgirl]

Okay. I guess I’ll start by testing the tap water in increments. I’m not sure how to both leave water out and temp match. At the moment I only have a 2 gallon bucket so anything bigger than a 10% change requires multiple buckets.
The fish seemed just fine after the last water change which was 30%.

When giving advice I try to be as cautious as possible. I would hate to tell someone to do something and it ended up harming their fish. To be totally honest I don't think it is going to be a problem. I would try to add the crushed coral though to prevent the gradual drop. I would try to hold it steady at the level of your test water.

Testing how quickly the PH drops may give you peace of mind if nothing else though.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your help. If my fish survive this, it will be in large part to your tutelage.

I’m doing the ph test right now. I’m not quite sure which I’m hoping for though. Reading your post, I think I’m hoping it comes down quickly. Is that right?

so far it looks like this:
2:30. 8.4
4:30 8.2
5:20. 8.0
6:20. 8.0
7:30 7.4

I did both the 6:30 and seven 7:30 readings twice cause they seemed odd, but I’m pretty sure both are right.

 

[mattgirl]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your help. If my fish survive this, it will be in large part to your tutelage.

I’m doing the ph test right now. I’m not quite sure which I’m hoping for though. Reading your post, I think I’m hoping it comes down quickly. Is that right?

so far it looks like this:
2:30. 8.4
4:30 8.2
5:20. 8.0
6:20. 8.0
7:30 7.4

I did both the 6:30 and seven 7:30 readings twice cause they seemed odd, but I’m pretty sure both are right.

I am very happy to be able to help even if is just hand holding. It looks like it comes down fairly quick so I don't think it is going to cause any problems with your fish. Yes coming down quickly is good.

 

[Kitcatkady]

That’s great news! I wasn’t sure if that qualified as quickly

 

[Kitcatkady]

So, I just lost one of the guppies. I’ve been checking the water once, even twice a day and not seeing spikes, but treating with prime every other day. I tested the water at 4:30 today the ph was 7, ammonia >.50, nitrite 0, nitrates between 5 and 10. I suspect he was sick for a few days, now that I look back. The day before yesterday I caught him hanging by himself in a corner. Yesterday, I came down very early in the morning and caught him at the bottom. I thought he was dead and was preparing to take him out when he started swimming around. He has been swimming normally when moving and coming for food in the morning. Actually, the other orange one in the bunch is doing similar things. It’s in the corner not really moving much. I wasn’t sure if it was one or both. I’ve been spending so much time watching them, and the two orange ones were very hard to tell apart.

So, I guess my questions now are:

Is it something I’ve done/ need to do differently? Could he have been sick when I got him? I’ve had them just about two weeks.

Not really expecting any answers. Just putting it out there. I was feeling so good about how things were going, too. Now, just feeling sad, starting to question everything, and worry everyone is sick.

 

[mattgirl]

I am sorry to hear that you lost one of your little guys. To be perfectly honest though it isn't all that unusual to lose some fish. We can't know what they have been through before coming to live with us. I just got 13 bloodfin tetras. It will surprise me if all of them live through quarantine.

I had a hard time getting a fair sized school of neon tetras. Every time I got more I would lose some of the new ones and a couple of the originals. I was finally able to buy 17 of them from a member here. They had already been quarantined and were well treated before I got them. I lost 4 due to an accidental leaking bag but all the others are alive and thriving.

Losing fish from time to time is the big downside to this wonderful hobby.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks. That’s what my husband says: fish die. Tomorrow is another day.

So today is 10 since the last water change. This morning my readings look like this:

ph 6.8
Ammonia between .25-.50
Nitrite. 0
Nitrates. Between 5-10

Assuming I hold out for another few days on the water change (please tell me if you think I should do one):

Should I treat with prime just to be safe? Is there a reason not to?
Should I add more Stability? Is there a reason not to?

 

[mattgirl]

It is time to do a water change. I am sorry I failed to mention I wouldn't go over a week without doing a water change no matter what the numbers are telling me. Change out at least half the water. Just a heads up. The water change should lower both ammonia and nitrates.

From now on I would only add Prime when doing a water change. I haven't read back through this thread so will ask . Do you have ammonia in your source water? Have you ever run your ammonia test on any water you are sure will have no ammonia in it? The reason I ask is because I was working with another young lady that was getting a constant .50 reading when it shouldn't have been there.

Personally I wouldn't add any more stability. Could that be where this constant .5 reading for ammonia is coming from. Possibly. I am not convinced that it helps. You may want to consider getting a small bottle of TSS+. From all I have read it contains the same kind of bacteria we are growing in our tanks. I am not as sure about Stability. I actually don't trust a product that recommends it be used with each water change. Once a tank has fully cycled there should be no need to add more bottled bacteria. You really shouldn't need to be adding any bottled bacteria at this point in your cycle though.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Thanks for the reply. I do have ammonia in the tap water. I’d is between .25 and .5. So basically the same as my tank water. I haven’t done a test on water I’m convinced doesn’t have ammonia. I can try and do that today. I just need some safe water

my tap water is testing a ph at 8.4 straight, but goes down to 7.4 within 5 hours. Today my tank tested at 6.8 today. I’m waiting on some crushed choral to arrive. Do I need to worry about shocking them when water change that big? Would it be better to multiple smaller changes over sometime?

 

[mattgirl]

Thanks for the reply. I do have ammonia in the tap water. I’d is between .25 and .5. So basically the same as my tank water. I haven’t done a test on water I’m convinced doesn’t have ammonia. I can try and do that today. I just need some safe water

my tap water is testing a ph at 8.4 straight, but goes down to 7.4 within 5 hours. Today my tank tested at 6.8 today. I’m waiting on some crushed choral to arrive. Do I need to worry about shocking them when water change that big? Would it be better to multiple smaller changes over sometime?

Thank you. I had forgotten about the elevated PH. Hopefully the CC will arrive soon. I know shipping is pretty slow these days. It took right at 2 weeks for me to receive a replacement filter for one of mine that was failing. That was a very long 2 weeks.

Smaller water changes over the next couple of days might be best. Thankfully Prime is going to detox the tap water ammonia. I am not sure the higher PH straight from the tap will cause problems since it isn't your true PH but it is better to be safe than sorry.

If I were in your shoes I would have 2 5 gallon buckets. I would let them set over night to allow the PH to drop. When I did the water change I would add enough hot water to get them up to temp right before I poured them in there. That isn't going to be as necessary once we can get the PH in your tank up to the same level as your tap water after it gasses off though.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Okay. I’m going to get my tank water tested by lfs so I can know for sure what I’m dealing with. Umm pick up some tetra safe start and CC while I’m there. Looking back at your post, it seems like I should add 1/2 cup of CC into the filter. ( I hope I have the room and then retest. Do I have this right? How long should I wait to retest/ how quickly does it work? I’m I looking for the ph to go up/ stay the same? The water change will also effect the ph, at least temporarily.

Depending on what the fish store says, I think I’ll also do a 10% water change when I get back and maybe another tonight. Then reassess in the morning.

 

[mattgirl]

I would start with 1/2 cup of CC. Put it in a media bag (the foot of a pair of panty hose works well for this) rinse it well and put it in your filter if there is enough room. If there isn't enough room in there try to hang it where the flow of water is running through it. If rinsed well it will very gradually raise the PH level. If it isn't rinsed it will almost instantly raise it and you don't want to do that. It just takes a quick rinse to get the loose coral dust off of it.

If the store doesn't have CC you can also use crushed oyster shells or limestone. Either of these 3 products will raise the kh in the tank. By doing so it will raise the PH. Give it a few days. If after 3 days or so the PH isn't up to the same level as the water you left setting out add a bit more CC. I can't tell you exactly how much or how little it is going to take to raise and stabilize the PH. It depends on the chemistry of your source water so can be different for different folks,

 

[Kitcatkady]

Okay. Thank you. Thats really helpful. Does 10% sound like a good start given the ph factor or should I do more?

I have a guppy hanging at the top with minimal movement. He’ll swim around a little and be still then swim again. I don’t think I’ve seen him leave the surface, but he is moving around more today than yesterday. Looking closely at him. I think there is some fin nipping, I assume from the betta. He seems more active today then yesterday. The others are swimming all over.

 

[mattgirl]

You are so very welcome. I would have to change out at least 20% now and then maybe consider 20% a few hours from now. Anytime I see any fish struggling the first thing I reach for is my water changing equipment. I know in this case we have some issues but the majority of the time fresh clean water is the best thing we can give our fish to stave off anything going on with them.

I am concerned about the fact that it has been 10 days since a water change 'specially when doing a fish in cycle. So many things are going on during this process that can be harmful for our water pets. That is the main reason I stress water changes during a fish in cycle.

I will recommend you get a bottle of TSS+ as soon as you can. I have never used it but folks I trust have and according the them it works much better than a lot of the other bottled bacteria on the market. If you get it wait for 24 hours after you have added Prime to this tank. It is said that Prime can affect the TSS so better to wait at least 24 hours. Turn off your filter. Pour the whole very well shaken bottle of TSS in the filter. I would even rinse the bottle out with tank water and pour that tank water back in the tank. Leave the filter off for about 15 minutes. This should give the bacteria time to soak into the media well before being dispersed out into the tank.

If it was a good fresh bottle of bacteria it should help your struggling cycle move forward. The instructions say not to do a water change for 2 weeks but let you test numbers be your guide. Don't let the ammonia get much higher than it is right now. Since you are seeing nitrates I have to think this cycle is very close to complete. It may just need a little bit of help to push it over the top.

Getting and keeping the PH up to the same level of your aged source water may really be all you need but a little help shouldn't hurt.

 

[Kitcatkady]

Okay.. I’ve got the safe start. I’ll do the water changes today. Would it make since to use sapi stress coat as the dechlorinator instead of prime and the add the tss after the second water change? I haven’t used any prime yet today.