Hello! I have been working to cycle my tank. It has only been about a week due to having to get all of my stuff together. I used Seachem Prime and then added ammonium chloride. I didn’t know I had to wait 36 hours to add the ammonium chloride. It has now been a little over 48 hours since adding Prime. My ammonia is sitting at 4.0 ppm, my ph is around 7.6-7.8. I’ve also used Fritz Zyme 7 (non refrigerated). Do I need to do a water or change or wait it out? I have an axolotl that I am tubbing (I know how to that lol) and I just want to make sure I’m doing the right thing with my cycle because I want to get it moving to get her in there! Please help! I need to know if I need to a water change or just wait it out! Any help is welcome! Thank you!
Water change or no?
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Why did you have to wait 24 hours ? I see no reason unless I’m missing something.
The recommended amount of ammonia to do a cycle is 2 ppm. IME at 4 ppm it takes forever so when I accidentally dose too much I will usually do a partial water change to bring the ammonia down to 2.0-2.5 ppm.
Just let the tank do it’s thing but if you haven’t seen ammonia go down a bit in about 4-5 days (thanks to Fritzzyme 7), or if it stops dropping then you could change some of your water.
The recommended amount of ammonia to do a cycle is 2 ppm. IME at 4 ppm it takes forever so when I accidentally dose too much I will usually do a partial water change to bring the ammonia down to 2.0-2.5 ppm.
Just let the tank do it’s thing but if you haven’t seen ammonia go down a bit in about 4-5 days (thanks to Fritzzyme 7), or if it stops dropping then you could change some of your water.
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Someone had told me that the Prime doesn’t get rid of the ammonia, it just kind of holds it hostage. So, they said that the Prime could’ve just been holding the ammonia and the bacteria hadn’t had a chance to get to it. I’ve never heard that but I’m not expert so, I just needed some help. I greatly appreciate you! If I do a partial water change, do I need to add more Fritz Zyme 7?
If you're at 4 PPM you are likely OK. At 5 or more your cycle can stall. As Dechi says your tank will likely "do it's thing", but a 20-25% water change probably won't hurt your cycle much and could speed it up.
If you have stalled the cycle, you should add more Fritz. But you are likely OK.
If you have stalled the cycle, you should add more Fritz. But you are likely OK.
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According to some other folks, bottled bacteria is marketing too. But I've come to appreciate that it offers comfort to many people.
You can assume your tank has cycling ability once the interiors (window, filter, wood, stones, etc) start to feel a little slimy. The bacteria involved in cycling create these slimy structures, where different strains in the structure benefit from each other. After a water change, the slimy structures are still there, so there is no harm.
The only possible harm is when you add "different water" during the changes. The slimy structures in KH 0 and pH 5 are (or might partly be) different from those in 5 KH and 7 pH. So it is best to keep the water source consistent, otherwise the results from a test kit might be confusing.
This is also why some hobbyists deliberately perform water changes during cycling; as KH and pH tends to decline, performing water changes keeps the parameters consistent.
So if tap water is your source, always use tap water.
You can assume your tank has cycling ability once the interiors (window, filter, wood, stones, etc) start to feel a little slimy. The bacteria involved in cycling create these slimy structures, where different strains in the structure benefit from each other. After a water change, the slimy structures are still there, so there is no harm.
The only possible harm is when you add "different water" during the changes. The slimy structures in KH 0 and pH 5 are (or might partly be) different from those in 5 KH and 7 pH. So it is best to keep the water source consistent, otherwise the results from a test kit might be confusing.
This is also why some hobbyists deliberately perform water changes during cycling; as KH and pH tends to decline, performing water changes keeps the parameters consistent.
So if tap water is your source, always use tap water.
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Prime and similar "ammonia neutralizing" products don't really do much to help with ammonia. Here is what our buddies at Reef2Reef found; https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...prime-cloram-x-rongalite-and-friends.1064206/
I agree with ruud that bottled bacteria are not particularly effective. What is effective is putting media from a cycled tank's filter - or the entire cycled filter - and adding it to the tank, if you have such an option available. Squeezing an established sponge filter into a tank - ideally near the filter! - works too...just don't overdo it because zealously squeezing a sponge filter can reset the cycle in the sponge filter if overdone. Note that the media has to come from a filter...beneficial bacteria/archaea/etc populations outside of the filter are far lower, and while non-filter inoculate from an established tank may eventually cycle a tank it will take a lot longer. Similarly, as the beneficial microbes attach to surfaces and are not free floating, simply adding water from an established tank won't work.
The beneficial bacteria and archaea actually prefer obscenely high amounts of ammonia and nitrite - 400 to 600 ppm of ammonia and 200 to 400 ppm of nitrite respectively. I wouldn't recommend going that high because it will take obscenely long for the ammonia and nitrite to come back down, but you probably don't need to perform a water change yet...just add a little baking soda if the ph begins to drop (the cycle in most tanks will stall if the PH drops below 6.5, so try to keep it above 7).
As for your ammonia test...I too am going to struggle to read it without the color key provided with the test.
I agree with ruud that bottled bacteria are not particularly effective. What is effective is putting media from a cycled tank's filter - or the entire cycled filter - and adding it to the tank, if you have such an option available. Squeezing an established sponge filter into a tank - ideally near the filter! - works too...just don't overdo it because zealously squeezing a sponge filter can reset the cycle in the sponge filter if overdone. Note that the media has to come from a filter...beneficial bacteria/archaea/etc populations outside of the filter are far lower, and while non-filter inoculate from an established tank may eventually cycle a tank it will take a lot longer. Similarly, as the beneficial microbes attach to surfaces and are not free floating, simply adding water from an established tank won't work.
The beneficial bacteria and archaea actually prefer obscenely high amounts of ammonia and nitrite - 400 to 600 ppm of ammonia and 200 to 400 ppm of nitrite respectively. I wouldn't recommend going that high because it will take obscenely long for the ammonia and nitrite to come back down, but you probably don't need to perform a water change yet...just add a little baking soda if the ph begins to drop (the cycle in most tanks will stall if the PH drops below 6.5, so try to keep it above 7).
As for your ammonia test...I too am going to struggle to read it without the color key provided with the test.
I added some baking soda yesterday because the ph had dropped. The ph is now around 7.4. The ammonia and nitrites have been at the same ppm since Sunday. I just did a small water change because I’m nervous that we dosed the ammonium chloride too high. I’m hoping that with the small water change and ph where it’s supposed to be, it will work. I didn’t have the option of media that was already established.
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Patience, my friend...without a concentrated source of the beneficial microbes like I mentioned, the cycle can easily take a month. A week is not a realistic time frame for cycling a tank completely from scratch.
Me thinks it's closer to 4ppm. Next time you take a picture of a test kit, though, it would be very helpful to place the vial right next to the color chart in the photo, rather than to have them in two separate photos.
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They don’t all work so you have to be picky. I am trying Frtizzyme 7 while cycling now (first time trying accelerated cycle in over 40 years). My cycle started on june 22nd and I am probably done today (I have to test).
If it is, then the cycle will have taken 16 days instead of 21-30 days. I usually cycle in 21 days myself. Is 1 or 2 weeks faster worth spending the money ? It’s for you to decide.
Okay! I just thought that maybe the ammonia would go down some by now. I greatly appreciate everyone’s help!
I would love to have been able to use media that was already cycled but we just didn’t have that option. I have been very impatient in the process because I had to get my fish earlier than I had anticipated. If you could, when you test, let me know if your tank is cycled.
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Did you get your fish online or from a local fish store? If local they may be able to give you some cycled media to help speed up the process even if it’s just a small piece of sponge or ceramic media or even some polyfill. Just add it right into your filter… Mentioning this cause as I went through the thread I didn’t notice any mention of that aside from if you had your own “cycled media”
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There is a lot of anecdotal evidence, but no peer-reviewed papers on the efficacy of Prime for Ammonia binding (not removal). But really, I think most of us use it primarily, no pun intended, for clorine/chloramine removal.
The fastest cycle I've experienced was with Fritz Enzyme 7. About 10 days in my 90-Gallon community tank. How much the Fritz Enzyme 7 helped, I'm unsure. Especially in light of recent research on the nitrogen cycle.
Do you already have plants? Plants are also a source of beneficial bacteria. They also consume ammonia. One thing in common between saltwater and freshwater is that plants in freshwater and corals in saltwater prefer ammonia over nitrate as a nutrient source. Floating plants like Salvinia Minima are one of the best plants for this purpose.
I'm now convinced, without definitive proof, that the large number of plants I put into my 90-Gallon from the beginning had more to do with the fast cycle than the Fritz Enzyme 7.
Personally, I'd hesitate to put cycled material from an LFS in my tanks. You can never know for sure that something undesirable might come in with the cycled material.
The fastest cycle I've experienced was with Fritz Enzyme 7. About 10 days in my 90-Gallon community tank. How much the Fritz Enzyme 7 helped, I'm unsure. Especially in light of recent research on the nitrogen cycle.
Do you already have plants? Plants are also a source of beneficial bacteria. They also consume ammonia. One thing in common between saltwater and freshwater is that plants in freshwater and corals in saltwater prefer ammonia over nitrate as a nutrient source. Floating plants like Salvinia Minima are one of the best plants for this purpose.
I'm now convinced, without definitive proof, that the large number of plants I put into my 90-Gallon from the beginning had more to do with the fast cycle than the Fritz Enzyme 7.
Personally, I'd hesitate to put cycled material from an LFS in my tanks. You can never know for sure that something undesirable might come in with the cycled material.
Yes!!! I have the Salvinia Minima in my tank. If I’m being 100% honest, I think we dosed too much ammonium chloride when we began the process. I have a 37 gallon tank. I did a 20% water change this morning. Added a small sunny of baking soda to raise the oh and have the temperature set at 84.0F. We added the ammonium chloride on Sunday. So, I’m hoping that since the media was brand new and were starting from scratch that the things listed above will help get the cycle moving. How do I know when the cycle is fully completed? When the nitrate is up a little? I want to say that I am so happy that I found this forum. You guys have all been amazing and supportive. I feel stupid but that me making myself feel that way!
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Traditionally, the tank is considered cycled when both Ammonia and Nitrite reach zero within 24 hours, and Nitrates are detectable.
For all my freshwater tanks, I started with 4 ppm ammonia, then redosed to 2 ppm as needed. Once that 2 ppm went to zero, without detectable nitrites, I considered my tank cycled.
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It is relatively straightforward to culture a known bacterial strain under defined conditions, provided the strain is already isolated and its requirements are understood.
What is much harder is ensuring that only those strains are introduced into a bottle.
What is exceptionally hard is keeping the intended strains dominant in a bottle once conditions begin to change, because oxygen, nutrients, pH, redox state, metabolites, surfaces and competing organisms immediately reshape the microbial community.
And even if it were possible, the intended bottled bacteria are probably not the ones that dominate aquariums in the first place.
But again, it doesn't matter. If you think it works, it works. People have anecdotes for every possible situation.
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Back to the OP:
"I have an axolotl that I am tubbing"
...so you are cycling a tank and in the meantime you are keeping an axolotl in a tub? And the tub is cycled? If the tub is not cycled, why not keep the axolotl in the tank? And simply don't add ammonia, because the axelotl releases ammonia continuously.
Sorry if I misunderstand. English is not my native language.
Cheers.
What is much harder is ensuring that only those strains are introduced into a bottle.
What is exceptionally hard is keeping the intended strains dominant in a bottle once conditions begin to change, because oxygen, nutrients, pH, redox state, metabolites, surfaces and competing organisms immediately reshape the microbial community.
And even if it were possible, the intended bottled bacteria are probably not the ones that dominate aquariums in the first place.
But again, it doesn't matter. If you think it works, it works. People have anecdotes for every possible situation.
__________________
Back to the OP:
"I have an axolotl that I am tubbing"
...so you are cycling a tank and in the meantime you are keeping an axolotl in a tub? And the tub is cycled? If the tub is not cycled, why not keep the axolotl in the tank? And simply don't add ammonia, because the axelotl releases ammonia continuously.
Sorry if I misunderstand. English is not my native language.
Cheers.
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Random Great Topic!
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