Sleepy Betta... What Is Wrong?

[Manan]

Hello good people of Fishlore,

My little Betta has not been quite himself for the past few days, and after much researching online, I have not been able to figure out what more I could do to help him. Perhaps some of you might have an idea as to what is wrong with him....

Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 5g
How long has the tank been running? 5 months
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 79°F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) He is alone with driftwood and lots of plants.

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Once a week, sometimes twice (smaller change in that case)
How much of the water do you change? Around 30-50%
What do you use to treat your water? Nutrafin Aquaplus water conditioner
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? I vacuum

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? Fluval Master test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
pH: 6.5

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Twice a day
How much do you feed your fish? Tiny bits (I'm super worried about overfeeding)
What brand of food do you feed your fish? I feed him a mix of flakes, Bug Bites, and a blood worm once in a while
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Freeze-dried

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A few days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Sleeps all day, doesn't move much or eat much
Have you started any treatment for the illness? no
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? He had a torn tail but it has grown back beautifully
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? He used to be really active, and now just lies on a leaf all day

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

I got Joffrey a few months ago and he has always been a very active fish. It used to be that you couldn't even walk into the dining room without him swimming up to the glass. He always had a huge appetite (not picky at all) and would spend hours going around the substrate to eat up any leftover food. About a week ago, I started to notice that he was lying around leaves in the tank a lot. I just assumed he was napping. But for the last 3 days, he has been doing that all day (and all night I assume). He will move only to swim to another leaf, where he lies down again. One of the leaves is against the filter intake and he will stay there for hours (I'm assuming the slight current is supporting his fins/tail which he likes). (btw I'm not really worried about his fins getting damaged because the current is extremely low and the intake "holes" very tiny). When I come down in the morning to turn his light on, he usually doesn't really move. This morning he did come up for a little bite of food but went back to his leaf afterwards.
He has been pooping just fine (not stringy or anything), he is not bloated and physically he looks good, no fin rot, fungus or discoloration, scales not raised, eyes not bulging. He can swim okay, but a little slower than usual. For instance, if he needs to swin downwards, he'll just let himself sink down instead of actively swimming toward the bottom. Also, yesterday I tried putting a mirror in front of his glass which usually always made him flare, but he couldn't have been less interested. He also used to make bubble nests like crazy, and hasn't done that in about a month.

The only change made to the tank about 2 weeks ago was a betta hammock (and he's been spending lots of time on it lol).

I'm a bit baffled, because I can't figure out if it's something I've done, or if he just got super lazy all of a sudden? I just tested the water parameters to make sure they were still fine, and everything looks good (ph is a little low maybe?).
I don't know how old he is, but wouldn't old age have happened more progressively? Could he just be super bored? And obviously I don't know much about his genetics, I bought him at my LPS for 5.99, so I doubt he came from a respectable breeder.

Anyone have an idea?

Here's a recent pic of him.

Thank you!

 

[Crispii]

He's probably getting old.

 

[barbmiester]

try to turn the lights off so he can sleep

 

[Manan]

Ah OK, I guess that's not the worst thing then...
fishmister I have live plants that need the light, and he already gets 16 hours with lights off, so I'd rather not have them off during the day too :/

 

[barbmiester]

hmmmm do you have a quarantine tank

if put the live plants in there or the betta and see how the betta does

 

[Repolie]

It doesn't matter if the lights are on or not, bettas will sleep whenever they want.

 

[CheshireKat]

I'm personally not fully convinced he's just getting old since you've had him for only 4 months, but without knowing how old he was when bought, we don't know how old the fish is. If he seems healthy otherwise and nothing has changed and you're keeping up with maintenance, there might not be anything wrong with him.
Maybe he just got lazy. Happens to me. All the time.

 

[Orion1066]

It is possible that he is getting more comfortable with this environment, and he is all settled in. I bought my boy Perry a toy that perked up his interest. It is a floating plastic ball, with a mirror attached, which hangs underwater. Perry enjoys flaring, and posturing, to show the intruder that he is not wanted. Five minutes, twice a day is all that is necessary.

 

[Manan]

hmmmm do you have a quarantine tank

if put the live plants in there or the betta and see how the betta does

I don't think the problem is coming from the plants, in fact he seems really fond of his anubias as they provide nice beds for him I would rather not add any stress on him by moving him around in a new environment.

I'm personally not fully convinced he's just getting old since you've had him for only 4 months, but without knowing how old he was when bought, we don't know how old the fish is. If he seems healthy otherwise and nothing has changed and you're keeping up with maintenance, there might not be anything wrong with him.
Maybe he just got lazy. Happens to me. All the time.

Yeah I find it crazy to believe he'd be that old. I do know however that when I purchased him, he was his full adult size, unlike most of the other bettas that were much smallers. I'm beginning to wonder if he may have been an unwanted fish that got brought back? Could explain why his tail was torn into two... And yeah, maybe he's just gotten lazy and knows he has a butler there to feed him and clean his room lol

I removed the lid to feed him and he came up to eat a worm and went back to bed

It is possible that he is getting more comfortable with this environment, and he is all settled in. I bought my boy Perry a toy that perked up his interest. It is a floating plastic ball, with a mirror attached, which hangs underwater. Perry enjoys flaring, and posturing, to show the intruder that he is not wanted. Five minutes, twice a day is all that is necessary.

I was thinking about some toys... I'll look into what could work for him.

Also, would it be crazy to add a tank mate? Like some shrimps? I was thinking of getting some cherry shrimp a while back, but was told at my LPS that he would likely eat them up. Seeing how lazy he is now, he might do ok with them... I'm just worried about them multiplying too quickly.

 

[Salem]

You could definitely try some shrimp or even a snail or two. The shrimp in theory shouldn't multiply out of control so long as you don't overfeed them. If you do end up with more than you'd like you can also try putting up an ad on here or on craigslist (or kijijI if you're in canada) or maybe even facebook market place for them.

I also have the little mirror toy for my betta and he seems to like it. He has floating log he likes to swim through and rest in as well. Some bettas also enjoy things like chasing laser pointers, swimming through hoops, jumping a little for treats, etc. You could also try moving some things around inside or beside the tank just to give him a little change of scenery.

 

[Manan]

I'm really tempted for the shrimp, especially since I have a bit of algae.

So right now I'm not quite sure about him just being bored/lazy. It could just be me but I think his scales are slightly raised around his sides, but not on his back or near his swim bladder. I just got home from work and he was on his hammock, moved a little for some air and swam over to the driftwood where he has been lying on his side since.

I feel bad, but I don't know if I should just let him be until he passes? Since there's not much more I can do in terms of water quality and diet... I'd look into medication, but not without a clear diagnosis...

 

[CheshireKat]

Can you try to get photos of the raised scales? Usually raised scales are caused by internal bacteria infection, organ failure, built up fluids, and other internal things. But if the scales are raised only in a certain area and not all over, that's a pretty specific issue. Photos could help figure out where and what could be the cause.

 

[Manan]

I tried to get a few shots. Not the best but it's dark right now so I didn't have much light.
I'm also putting a picture of when I first got him to compare (first one). (oh also, he doesn't have velvet, he is a dragonscale and in some angles he is blueish and in others it looks golden, he's had that the whole time so I'm pretty sure it is not velvet).
I don't know, his scales don't look that different but it's so hard to tell...

 

[Orion1066]

I don't think the problem is coming from the plants, in fact he seems really fond of his anubias as they provide nice beds for him I would rather not add any stress on him by moving him around in a new environment.



Yeah I find it crazy to believe he'd be that old. I do know however that when I purchased him, he was his full adult size, unlike most of the other bettas that were much smallers. I'm beginning to wonder if he may have been an unwanted fish that got brought back? Could explain why his tail was torn into two... And yeah, maybe he's just gotten lazy and knows he has a butler there to feed him and clean his room lol

I removed the lid to feed him and he came up to eat a worm and went back to bed



I was thinking about some toys... I'll look into what could work for him.


I have read that Bettas do eat cherry shrimp. Some recommend ghost shrimp. I have placed an order for some, and I plan on introducing them to Perry when they get here. I will let you know.

Orion

Also, would it be crazy to add a tank mate? Like some shrimps? I was thinking of getting some cherry shrimp a while back, but was told at my LPS that he would likely eat them up. Seeing how lazy he is now, he might do ok with them... I'm just worried about them multiplying too quickly.

 

[Orion1066]

I don't think the problem is coming from the plants, in fact he seems really fond of his anubias as they provide nice beds for him I would rather not add any stress on him by moving him around in a new environment.



Yeah I find it crazy to believe he'd be that old. I do know however that when I purchased him, he was his full adult size, unlike most of the other bettas that were much smallers. I'm beginning to wonder if he may have been an unwanted fish that got brought back? Could explain why his tail was torn into two... And yeah, maybe he's just gotten lazy and knows he has a butler there to feed him and clean his room lol

I removed the lid to feed him and he came up to eat a worm and went back to bed



I was thinking about some toys... I'll look into what could work for him.

Here is the exercise mirror toy I have. Available at PetCo.



Also, would it be crazy to add a tank mate? Like some shrimps? I was thinking of getting some cherry shrimp a while back, but was told at my LPS that he would likely eat them up. Seeing how lazy he is now, he might do ok with them... I'm just worried about them multiplying too quickly.

 

[Manan]

Thanks! I'm in Quebec and I don't think there are petcos near here. But I'll check next time I got to my LPS.
I'm def curious about the Ghost shrimp. Let me know how that goes!

 

[PascalKrypt]

Don't drive yourself nuts!
He looks fine to me, tbh, though it is pretty much impossible to judge raised scales from a photo unless it is very advanced (and by that time you'd be too late anyway)...
I'm not helping, am I?

Do you soak the freeze-dried food before feeding? Because not doing that could lead to constipation, maybe he has a very mild case of that? (blood worms tend to be the #1 culprit of that issue). Bettas sometimes may swallow small objects like plant stem fragments or small pebbles that can cause issues, but maybe it is small enough that it isn't causing a real problem but it is bothering him...? Just eh, throwing some straws out there.
Or it could just be personality changes. That also happens.

 

[Manan]

PascalKrypt I knew I was forgetting something when feeding him the worms! His behavior also started not too long after I got the worms... Maybe it's that? (or that is just wishful thinking on my part ) I'll soak them from now on, anyways he doesn't eat much these days so I can fast him a little in case he is a little bloated.

Well I'll keep monitoring his scales and checking on him. He's usually always in the same 2 spots so it's easy to find him.

 

[Orion1066]

PascalKrypt I knew I was forgetting something when feeding him the worms! His behavior also started not too long after I got the worms... Maybe it's that? (or that is just wishful thinking on my part ) I'll soak them from now on, anyways he doesn't eat much these days so I can fast him a little in case he is a little bloated.

Well I'll keep monitoring his scales and checking on him. He's usually always in the same 2 spots so it's easy to find him.

Periods of fasting, and not being fed, can help with digestive track issues. Perry still seems to nap more than I would like, but it his life. In the end, all works out with me, and Perry, both being happy.

 

[Carmen79]

By looking at the pictures I have the feeling he could be underfed.
How much do you feed him?

 

[Manan]

He is definitely not underfed, I feed him twice a day (I put the details in the template of what I feed him and how much)
I've actually made the mistake of overfeeding him once and he had a mild case of sbd, so I've been pretty careful about quantities since. Right now he is not always eating what he is being fed so I am vacuuming his tank more regularly.

Orion, yes I guess in the end it's up to them what they do with their time I miss seeing him swimming around but I can't force him to do so just for my own pleasure of watching him.

 

[Carmen79]

He is definitely not underfed, I feed him twice a day (I put the details in the template of what I feed him and how much)
I've actually made the mistake of overfeeding him once and he had a mild case of sbd, so I've been pretty careful about quantities since. Right now he is not always eating what he is being fed so I am vacuuming his tank more regularly.

Orion, yes I guess in the end it's up to them what they do with their time I miss seeing him swimming around but I can't force him to do so just for my own pleasure of watching him.

I did read your description but, it didn't specify how much. It only said "tiny bit".

 

[Algonquin]

Just a few ideas to try... maybe add an airstone to up the oxygen in the water - you mentioned that the flow was really low. Also, definitely add some cherry shrimp (with some good hiding places for them) - hopefully that will perk him up and get that natural instinct going... he might just be bored. Also maybe try some frozen blood worms instead of dried, and some frozen daphnia (it can help with constipation.)
I hope he perks up a bit soon. He's lucky to have a concerned caregiver like you to pamper him!

 

[Manan]

I did read your description but, it didn't specify how much. It only said "tiny bit".

It's difficult to give an exact quantity with flakes and bug bites, the best description I can give is a small pinch each feeding, which lets out about 10-20 flakes/bug bites.

Just a few ideas to try... maybe add an airstone to up the oxygen in the water - you mentioned that the flow was really low. Also, definitely add some cherry shrimp (with some good hiding places for them) - hopefully that will perk him up and get that natural instinct going... he might just be bored. Also maybe try some frozen blood worms instead of dried, and some frozen daphnia (it can help with constipation.)
I hope he perks up a bit soon. He's lucky to have a concerned caregiver like you to pamper him!

Hadn't thought of an airstone... and I think I'll get the shrimp this weekend. How many shrimp should I start with? Thanks!

 

[Algonquin]

You could probably start with 6 - 10 shrimp. Can you post a pic of the tank? They'll need some good hiding spots to be able to get away from the betta and to reproduce. Java moss is great for them!
Hoping you can get some cherry shrimp pretty cheap... in case they become dinner. If you can find someone locally that is selling culls, that's a good way to start if you aren't sure how the betta will react to them (or how quick he is with the right 'inspiration')!

Do you happen to know the Gh/Kh of your water? Shrimp need a certain amount of hardness (and minerals) to be able to molt properly.

 

[Manan]

Apologies for my late answer, it has been a busy week

Thanks for your reply, here are a few pics of the tank. I do think there are a few hiding places that my betta cannot reach (there are a few holes in the driftwood actually that would make good hiding spots I should think).
I don't know the Gh/Kh sadly... The only thing I have that is supposed to be shrimp firendly is my substrate (fluval plant and shrimp stratum).

Obviously I want the shrimp to be living in good conditions, but I also don't want to end up with 100 in my tank... Is there a way to keep their numbers from growing too quickly? My issue with having to give some away is that I'm sure there are already tons of people trying to get rid of extra shrimp out there...

I'm gonna go see how much my LPS sells them and see if it makes sense to add them knowing they could become dinner.

Also, question, will shrimp eat the algae off of driftwood? I can't seem to get rid of the white algae that often comes with driftwood.

Also as far as Joffrey goes, he hasn't changed much his behavior but he does eat a little bit when comes feeding time. He is still swimming OK when he swims, and still pretty quick to move out of the way when I do water changes and the python gets too close. But otherwise he still rests all day, as you can see on the pics...

 

[Algonquin]

I wouldn't worry too much about shrimp overpopulation. It will take a long while, even with no predators in the tank, to fill up that tank. Shrimp have a very small bioload as well. You could always just start with a few lower grade (inexpensive) ones and see how your betta reacts before committing to stocking the tank with shrimp.
Your tank and betta are very lovely

 

[Manan]

Thanks!

So I went to my LPS today. I wanted to buy 10 shrimp but they were 3.99 each lol They had a special 4/10.99 so I went with that (still expensive IMO for shrimp the size of an ant! what makes them so expensive? Their popularity?) although I would have liked more than 4 (but wasn't gonna risk spending money and having them get eaten in a day).
Anyways, I acclimated them and they've been in now for about 10mins. I got a minI heart attack because I was expecting them to be skiddish, but within about 2mins they were right in the betta's face aaaah! He gave them a good look and.... He went over to his hammock lol
So yeah, so far so good, let's see if they are all there tomorrow morning!

 

[Algonquin]

Maybe post some pics of the Shrimp? Hopefully they gave you a mix of male and female! Some good close pics and they can be sexed.

Keep us posted on how things go. Will be interested to see if the new neighbours perk him up

 

[Manan]

I'll try and get some pics, they are so small! Maybe tomorrow when they come out, two are now hiding. All I have are two very blurry pics haha! The lady told me there was one male and 3 females I believe. Or 2 and 2, not quite sure. But according to her there definitely was at least one of each haha One has been actively eating from the driftwood algae, I'm quite thrilled.

 

[Debbie1986]

Very nice set up! good luck & hope it works out.

 

[Orion1066]

Thanks!

So I went to my LPS today. I wanted to buy 10 shrimp but they were 3.99 each lol They had a special 4/10.99 so I went with that (still expensive IMO for shrimp the size of an ant! what makes them so expensive? Their popularity?) although I would have liked more than 4 (but wasn't gonna risk spending money and having them get eaten in a day).
Anyways, I acclimated them and they've been in now for about 10mins. I got a minI heart attack because I was expecting them to be skiddish, but within about 2mins they were right in the betta's face aaaah! He gave them a good look and.... He went over to his hammock lol
So yeah, so far so good, let's see if they are all there tomorrow morning!

Shrimp are expensive. My Ghost Shrimp (now, really ghosts) were $2 each, for 10. Most were small and medium. A few were large.

Regrettably, I am not trying on adding to Perry’s habitat. Not unless I upgrade to a larger tank.

 

[Manan]

Thanks Debbie!
Orion, yes they are really expensive! Hopefully they breed so I don't have to buy more

Joffrey not looking much different today. I doubt he's gonna be around much longer tbh, but at least he's just chilling, he doesn't seem to be in too much pain (no crooked spine, torn fins or anything).

 

[Algonquin]

How is he doing today?

 

[Manan]

Same At least the shrimp seem to be doing well.

 

[Algonquin]

Its so hard when they can't tell us what's wrong.

 

[Manan]

Yes, I wish he could talk!
I have to say I am amazed at the work the shrimp have done. My driftwood is really clearing up! Soon I'll have to start feeding them extra food since there won't be much algae left in the tank! Also, just curious, they seem to be leaving these tiny little pellets all over the place, is that shrimp poop?

 

[Algonquin]

Yup, they poop quite a bit. Not a big deal, but if the look bothers you, you can do a quick spot vacuum with a bit of airline tubing.

 

[Manan]

aaah ok makes sense! No it doesn't really bother me since it's so tiny and hey, I'll take that over algae
I'll vacuum Friday when I do the water change!

I just watched the betta swim down to where the shrimp were and rest there next to them. Kinda cute.

 

[Algonquin]

So he's a little bit interested in the shrimp... but, so far, not in the 'hungry' kind of way...

 

[Manan]

Nope haha

Hey, I think my shrimp may have dropped some eggs?? Is that possible? There are little translucent whitish egg-looking things on my driftwood... (also, my tank has never looked this clean, they are amazing).

Betta still unphased, resting all day but still physically looks good.

 

[Algonquin]

Maybe post a pic? Shrimp carry theiŕ eggs underneath their back half until they hatch... unless she dropped them, which can happen I think sometimes with inexperienced mom's...

 

[Manan]

oh, strange then! is this what they would look like?

 

[Algonquin]

Yup, those are dropped shrimp eggs

 

[Manan]

aaah too bad! But I'm sure that means there will be more to come.
Also, one of my shrimp molted, so I'm guessing that is a good sign in terms of water conditions...? (since I never got to measure hardness). The shrimp was hiding the last 2 days but today is out and eating.
Anyway, I'm off to do a water change now.

 

[Manan]

Update: well he looks terrible today... I tested the water and everything came out perfect (ph: 6.5, ammonia: 0, nitrites 0, nitrate slightly below 5). Shrimp are still doing great after the water change, but he is freaking out.
He seems to have two stages:
He swims erratically all over the place and then drops dead. He floats down to the bottom of the tank then starts swimming erratically again, drops completely still, then starts over.
Every time he falls I keep thinking that's it, I just watched him die.

I will try to get a video, but I think today will be his last day.

edit: I got some photos. Obviously this is not just a lazy fish, I know there is something wrong but I won't want to take him out and into a new tank. I feel like that will only stress him out more, and I don't think there is much that can be done at this point...
Right now he is lying at the bottom completely still so I am not sure if he is alive or not.Will wait a bit to see if he moves.

edit2: hasn't moved/breathed since I posted so I think he's done

 

[Mancmike]

Update: well he looks terrible today... I tested the water and everything came out perfect (ph: 6.5, ammonia: 0, nitrites 0, nitrate slightly below 5). Shrimp are still doing great after the water change, but he is freaking out.
He seems to have two stages:
He swims erratically all over the place and then drops dead. He floats down to the bottom of the tank then starts swimming erratically again, drops completely still, then starts over.
Every time he falls I keep thinking that's it, I just watched him die.

I will try to get a video, but I think today will be his last day.

edit: I got some photos. Obviously this is not just a lazy fish, I know there is something wrong but I won't want to take him out and into a new tank. I feel like that will only stress him out more, and I don't think there is much that can be done at this point...
Right now he is lying at the bottom completely still so I am not sure if he is alive or not.Will wait a bit to see if he moves.

edit2: hasn't moved/breathed since I posted so I think he's done

I just registered to share your pain! My Betta has been doing exactly the same for the last week or so. He looks fine but just lies on his side at the top or bottom of the tank. If I shake him awake he has a bite to eat then goes straight back to lying down. There's always been shrimp in his tank but he has never shown any interest in them. I took out some cories just over a week ago then put in some ember tetras this weekend. He's not even batted an eyelid in their direction, he's the most timid Betta I've ever heard of and used to look so excited when I approached the tank

 

[Manan]

I just registered to share your pain! My Betta has been doing exactly the same for the last week or so. He looks fine but just lies on his side at the top or bottom of the tank. If I shake him awake he has a bite to eat then goes straight back to lying down. There's always been shrimp in his tank but he has never shown any interest in them. I took out some cories just over a week ago then put in some ember tetras this weekend. He's not even batted an eyelid in their direction, he's the most timid Betta I've ever heard of and used to look so excited when I approached the tank

Sorry to hear that about your Betta I hope he does better than mine did, never fun to see them that way.

 

[wrs2]

This happened with one of my bettas recently as well. He was fine, active, then lazy, then shortly after dead. I only had him for a few months as well. He was so pretty I find bettas to be so hard to keep alive lately. I never had so many issues with them when I started fish keeping 16 years ago. Now if they live 9 months it's a great feat! Hopefully you will try again with bettas, but get one that will live a bit longer!

 

[Manan]

Oh Yeah it seems like everyone is having so many issues with them.
I didn't end up getting another betta because of the shrimp (din't want to risk getting one who would eat them), so got some male guppys instead. They fun to watch so far, but I do miss having the beautiful betta.