Sick fish but dont know what with.

[akbvlb]

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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 180
How long has the tank been running? 8
Does it have a filter? Fluval fx6
Does it have a heater? 3, 100w, 300w and a DIY 1kw to replace other two once I get my temperature controller.
What is the water temperature? 77F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? 2 jack dempsey's 4" female and 5" male, 3 oscars 2.5" currently unknown sex.

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? twice in last 7 days.
How much of the water do you change? 20-25%
What do you use to treat your water? apI stress coat, 24 hours later apI quick start. 24 hours later added fish.
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? both

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? no
What do you use to test the water? apI master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 1 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm
pH: 7.8

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? 3-4x day
How much do you feed your fish? 3-4x day
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Fluval bug bites, wardley shrimp pellets, tetra cichlid floating sticks. san fransisco bay brand frozen blood worms.
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? blood worms.
Live food? minnows, no interest. ghost shrimp some interest. Crickets get destroyed by my jacks.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 20ish days
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 7 days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? flashing, shivering, loss of appetite, on my large jack swollen protrusion behind eye but above gill.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? aquarium products life bearer for parasites
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? no
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? dull colors on jacks, swollen/protrusion on jack and pectoral fins on jacks seem more yellow.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. purchased oscars and put in cycled with food 29 gallon tank 20 days ago, got jacks from different store 15 days ago. soon realized the biological filter wasn't ready for that many fish and ammonia shot up too 4ppm, 50% water change and went out and bought 180 gal tank, filled tank treated with apI stress coat let work for 24 hrs then apI quick start let work 24 hrs removed all substrate from old tank and put in new tank transferred fish. next day a lump appeared above the gill of my big jack around eye level. slowly got more picky about food then the flashes started in the big jack, next day the other jack started flashing then the oscars started flashing all in 2-3 days. then started asking questions at the pet store found a lady that is studying marine biology and she suggested the ap life bearer, don't think that did anything. all fish still highly active, jacks love to swim around together and chase their reflection in the side glass of the aquarium. today the jack seem to be going thru the flashes a lot more often and pectoral fins seem yellow on both jacks but not oscars and even around the lips of the big jack seems yellow.
No white spots on fish or fins, no bloating, no gasping for air.
didn't mean to be long winded but I wanted to be thorough. I spend 3-4 hours a day watching my fish, they are like children to me and I would be eternally grateful for some assistance, Thanks

 

[RyanLee]

not sure about the lump behind the eye, but the dull color and flashing is probably due to the ammonia. To keep the ammonia level down until your cycle catches up, I would feed minimal amounts, and do consistent frequent water changes with a double dose of prime. The prime will help detoxify the ammonia for 24 hours.

 

[akbvlb]

I just checked out that prime, I wish I got that instead of the apI stuff, it has great reviews, I’ll pick some up. Also will do on reducing the food. I know ammonia is bad but I thought 1ppm was acceptable during cycling, Thanks for the correction on that Ryan!



This was the best photo I could get of him, the lump is on the right side. In the photo it kinda looks like it runs down his side but it’s just a small circular lump.

 

[angelcraze]

Not sure about the lump, but do I see white spots on this fish? I know you said no white spots, but what are those? Not sure that I would feed live foods. Crickets maybe, but feeder fish could easily bring in parasites and disease. Unless you grow the feeder fish up yourself, I wouldn't chance it! For the record, I feed my geckos crickets and worms, they have been healthy for 16 years.

 

[akbvlb]

Thanks for the advice, I believe the white spots on my jack in that photo are from me cleaning the substrate, I had cleaned it right before taking the photo. It’s really fine white and black sand. The pebbles are from the old tank I put in for the biological filter. But I will take another look at him when I get home and report my findings.

 

[akbvlb]

Well seems your right angelcraze, I went and got some prime to neutralize my ammonia and some para guard for the ich. But I’m starting to feel like it might be too late for my male jack. He’s not eating at all now nor is he swimming much. The female is staying with him for the most part but she’s eating and more active. I tried to soak his frozen blood worms in garlic but even that wouldn’t get him to eat. I’m extremely thankful for the help and if anyone has idea on how to keep this guy going I’d love to hear it. I sent the wife to get crickets and see how that goes.

 

[Momgoose56]

Well seems your right angelcraze, I went and got some prime to neutralize my ammonia and some para guard for the ich. But I’m starting to feel like it might be too late for my male jack. He’s not eating at all now nor is he swimming much. The female is staying with him for the most part but she’s eating and more active. I tried to soak his frozen blood worms in garlic but even that wouldn’t get him to eat. I’m extremely thankful for the help and if anyone has idea on how to keep this guy going I’d love to hear it. I sent the wife to get crickets and see how that goes.

Just a note in case it slipped your mind..Take any carbon out of your filter or the paraguard will be adsorbed before it has a chance to work.

 

[akbvlb]

Yup I took it out, but good call momgoose! I’ve now got him to eat two crickets, he didn’t move fast to get them but I feel better knowing he’s eaten something to keep up his energy for the fight.

 

[RyanLee]

Yup I took it out, but good call momgoose! I’ve now got him to eat two crickets, he didn’t move fast to get them but I feel better knowing he’s eaten something to keep up his energy for the fight.

Are you keeping the ammonia level low? How much water are you changing?

 

[akbvlb]

My ammonia when I got off work was at 1 ppm, it’s never been above that in this tank. I went to the lfs and picked up some prime and some paraguard. I did a 25% change and used the prime to mix in 5 gallon buckets then after a half hour I added the paragaurd. I have not checked the ammonia again after that

I’m not sure if I answered your question so I’ll add that it was my 3rd water change in about 8 days each time being 20-25%

 

[Momgoose56]

I’m not sure if I answered your question so I’ll add that it was my 3rd water change in about 8 days each time being 20-25%

So, you're treating the fish with paraguard. That may help. The best thing you can do for your fish now, is keep their water clean, until your bacteria colony catches up to the bioload, and see if their condition improves. You'll need to keep the combined total of ammonia+nitrites at 1 ppm or less with water changes. You will also need to dose the entire volume of the tank with Prime every 48 hours, and treat all replacement water with it as long as there is any ammonia or nitrites in the tank.
Prime only keeps ammonia and nitrites in their 'safe form' for 48 hours.
You can do bigger water changes less frequently if that is easier for you.
When you did the last one, your ammonia level was 1 ppm. You did a 25% water change. 1ppm minus 25% is .75ppm. You are probably going to need to do another 25% water change tomorrow at minimum to keep that ammonia at less than 1 ppm. If you had done a 75% water change, your ammonia level would be at .25ppm and you might be able to go 2 or 3 days before it creeps back up toward 1 ppm. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[akbvlb]

Thanks momgoose, I’ll do a bigger change today 30-40% and see what that does with the ammonia. And if I need to do daily changes I don’t mind. Also I wanted to add my male jack is a lot more active this am, he’s not himself but he’s at lest moving around more.

 

[RyanLee]

Fish in cycles are hard on fish because of the ammonia and nitrite. If your fish is struggling the lower you can keep the ammonia the better it would be for him. The primary way to keep the ammonia low is with larger water changes. the problem with larger water changes is you may be adding an additional stress factor to the fish because of micro-bubbles and pH swing. the water you are putting in your tank for your water changes may have a different pH level than your tank. If you have the time you could test your tap water pH and also test your tap water that has sat out in a cup for 24 hours. That will let you know if you have a pH swing to contend with.

 

[akbvlb]

Thanks Ryan, I have checked the ph of my water but never thought to let it sit before testing. Without sitting my tap has a PH of 7.6 but I will take a sample today and let it sit 24 hours before testing it. And as far as micro bubbles go where I get the water for my tank has no aerator and I add the chlorine remover (now using prime) to each bucket and I allow it to sit for an hour before adding it to the tank. Well about an hour, that’s about how long it takes me to remove the water. Then I actually pump it in and remove it with my fluval fx6, I add it slow and adjust my valves to blend the new water with the old as it goes in. My thinking is that may help with the micro bubbles. But I don’t honestly know for sure. And I just hand test the water temp and never noticed any temperature fluctuations but if I’m going to change more than 25% I’m going to test it with a thermometer. I just want to say you all are awesome and I appreciate all the help you all have given

 

[akbvlb]

Ok I changed out 50% of the water and my numbers are
Ph 7.6
Ammonia .25ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 ppm

My male jack is extremely happy and swimming around with his girl!

 

[akbvlb]

Just an update I have had no big change in the fish since my last post. And my jacks are still active. I have kept up with 25% water changes every day and it has kept the ammonia at .25 all other tests are the same as they were. I’m surprised I’m not getting any nitrites yet but I cannot imagine it would be much longer till they start getting detectable. I’m still adding prime everyday with water changes and adding paragaurd. The wife is getting tired of all the buckets in her living room every day lol. And as far as my tap water ph after 24 hours it had no noticeable difference than my fresh tap water. The one change I have noticed is my female jack while she wants to be with the male at all times she doesn’t seem to want him to eat. Every time he goes to eat something she slams her mouth in his side. She’s not leaving any marks but I’m thinking about putting in a divider to split them up. Anyone have an idea what that’s about? His lump is still there, no change there. Also I’m planning to buy an RO water system and some kind of mineral adder to do away with using buckets. Anything I could be over looking with using RO water and minerals? Thanks

 

[akbvlb]

Just wanted to give everyone an update. My tank seems to have about finished the cycle, my ammonia levels are about undetectable and my nitrites never came up so atm I’m assuming that probably has something to do with the apI quick start. My jack’s are doing great now, they have been doing lots of flirting and the color changes as they do so are amazing. His color has yet to fully return but it is returning. And he still has the lump but it has been reduced in diameter. But not all is sunshine and rainbows, one of my Oscars has Popeye in one eye. At first I didn’t think much of it, that maybe it was just due to the flashing and scratched it on something. But now he’s not as active so I removed him from the main tank and into my old tank and he’s starting food with antibiotics today so I’ll see how that goes. Oh and I’m still treating for the ich, that seems to have cleared but I figured I’d keep treating for it for a couple more weeks just Incase it’s not all gone. Thanks for all the help.

 

[angelcraze]

Glad your jack is doing better. Hope you can deal with the popeye though, I think you are doing the right thing keeping your oscar in a hospital tank.

The only thing I can think of regarding the buckets is maybe a larger bin like a rubbermaid container and keep it under the stand? Or in a closet nearby? Idk....

Some ppl use a python water changer and pump water straight from the tap to the tank. You'd have to add Prime to the whole tank though, instead of just the buckets. And btw, Prime works immediately, but waiting an hour to refill the tank also helps aerate the water. Either way, when you are doing frequent large water changes, params should be all very similar.

 

[akbvlb]

Thanks, actually what I did last time was I broke down and put a garden hose on the pump and used a wet wash cloth (no soap) and scrubbed out the tub to get rid of any soap residues and plugged the tub and drained 25% of my tank into the tub to determine how high 25% is in the tub then I drained it all out and refilled the tub a touch higher and treated the water with prime in the tub then again used the filter pump to put the water back in the tank. Worked like a charm. I had to clean the tub once again but I didn’t have to carry any heavy buckets. I have degenerative disk in my back and neck and with all the water changes I just couldn’t do it anymore. So until I buy something like the python or something else I’m just going to keep doing it that way. My levels have been really low so I’ve reduced to doing 25% water changes every other day. I’ll post updates every now and again so everyone knows what’s up. Thanks again, you all are awesome!

 

[angelcraze]

Little tip, I started using my mop in the tub, beats bending over. I have chronic back pain as well and learned to cut corners where I can Pythons are maybe 50$ (try amazon) a good investment, will save you lots of time and space.

 

[akbvlb]

Sry for the late response angel, life has been crazy. I was actually promoted to management about three months ago and it’s been better for me as far as my back goes but it’s got me working a lot more hours so my life has pretty much been work, fish, supper, some family time, sleep and repeat and not much time for much else. I appreciate the tip, I never thought to do that but it sure does make it a lot easier to clean the tub!

Also I wanted to let everyone know my fish are doing great, my jacks have gotten all their colors back and are happy as can be, my Oscar with the one Popeye is still in a quarantine tank and some of the swelling has gone down on the eye and he’s still acting fine and happy! I’ll try and get a pic of the jacks later today they look amazing

I’m actually planning on getting the last fish for the tank as soon as my third tank has completed it’s cycle to safely quarantine it until I know he or she is safe for the main tank, I’m planning to get an Ornate Bichir

I made an error when I made this post I never bothered too correct, when I bought my tank I had actually intended on buying a 180 gallon tank, but actually bought a 210 due to the tiny price difference. I’ve always done water treatments for a 210 and not a 180, it was just when I made this post I was stressed and not thinking clearly. Any way, thanks all

 

[angelcraze]

Congrats on the promotion! That's great that the new position is easier on your back

Looking forward to the pics of your jacks! Glad they are looking good. And it's a good sign for your oscar as well.

Thanks for the update! I always like to know how things are going.

 

[akbvlb]

Thanks angel, it’s definitely been a lot better for me!

My jacks must have been a bit grumpy with me yesterday because their colors weren’t as deep as before but they still looked great

 

[akbvlb]

It’s been awhile so I wanted to give everyone an update. Fish are doing amazing, all are healthy and growing really fast, especially the Pleco, he/she has grown probably close to 3 inches in the a little over 2 months. My Oscar that had Popeye is back to normal and doing well.

Last week my female jack started digging and rearranging her area of the tank and Friday morning I woke up to find lots of eggs that I’d say probably around 90% hatched yesterday. I have put in a temporary tank divider to keep the Oscars and the jacks split up to keep them from getting hurt. I have a few good non chain lfs around me I will be talking with once my fry have grown out a bit. And if anyone on here wants some and they have a large enough tank in the Milwaukee area let me know.

Also I moved my filter, heater, uv light down to my basement and plumbed it in and installed a drain valve and a fill valve that operates by a remote that looks like a key fob I’ll be making a post about at some point once I get all the finishing touches on it. Also you all are awesome! Thank you all!

 

[akbvlb]

So I was just watching my fish fry eat and I seen a tiny silver looking worm wiggling it’s way up the side of my tank divider. It was bending itself in a U shape and snapping back real fast to move. It was maybe a bit larger in diameter than a human hair and maybe 1/8 inch long. Anyone know what that is or if it’s something I should be concerned about? I won’t worry on this one until I’m told to lol. Fish are doing great btw, don’t see anything out of the normal with them. And here is a pic of the fry. All the white specks on the glass is HikarI first bites, I’m also going to start hatching brine shrimp tomorrow or Friday.

Also I forgot to say I took a video of the worm moving up the side but I couldn’t get it to upload and it was too small to get a photo of it and be able to see it. In photos it just looked like a speck of crud or something.

 

[angelcraze]

So I was just watching my fish fry eat and I seen a tiny silver looking worm wiggling it’s way up the side of my tank divider. It was bending itself in a U shape and snapping back real fast to move. It was maybe a bit larger in diameter than a human hair and maybe 1/8 inch long. Anyone know what that is or if it’s something I should be concerned about? I won’t worry on this one until I’m told to lol. Fish are doing great btw, don’t see anything out of the normal with them. And here is a pic of the fry. All the white specks on the glass is HikarI first bites, I’m also going to start hatching brine shrimp tomorrow or Friday. View attachment 644931

Also I forgot to say I took a video of the worm moving up the side but I couldn’t get it to upload and it was too small to get a photo of it and be able to see it. In photos it just looked like a speck of crud or something.

Nice babies! For video, have you tried uploading to a third party like youtube or Videome, then post a link here? Make sure video is set to public.

 

[akbvlb]

Not yet, I just noticed it yesterday and I didn’t have time yesterday to upload it to YouTube. Depending on how late I end up working today I should be able to get it uploaded. Thanks angel!