Newbie - help! stalled cycle? - Page 3

GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
Just as I thought. HahHa I thought you were confusing which parameter I was talking about.
Instead of getting the tetra could she now just get her betta?
Yup, your choice. A betta will be absolutely fine.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Mr fish is on his way ❤
 
GuppyGal7
Member
Ohh he's stunning! What's his name? Just a warning, I see a little bit of darkening at the edges of his tail. That could be a sign of finrot. Don't panic, this early on, clean water and frequent water changes might get rid of it. Bettas can get finrot very easily from bad water quality and stress (such as being with too many other fish). Alone with good water quality, it should hopefully heal up. Just keep an eye on it, but you have nothing to worry about. Worst case scenario: you spend $15 on medication and he gets better. Best case scenario, it's already gone by the time you read this message. Don't mean to stress you at all. Enjoy your new fish!
 
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BeardieMama
Member
He’s from one of the main importers to NZ. Said he’s had this colouring since he got him in. But I will watch closely
 
GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
He’s from one of the main importers to NZ. Said he’s had this colouring since he got him in. But I will watch closely
Ohh, ok. Likely just his colours. Unless you notice the fins looking like they're being eaten away, you've got nothing to worry about. Enjoy!
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Kinda see what you mean now! Hope with the shipping it’s not going to get worse.
 
GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
Kinda see what you mean now! Hope with the shipping it’s not going to get worse.
Bettas are pretty hardy little dudes. I've heard stories of them surviving days in shipping because of delays and turning out fine. And the worst case scenario is you have to treat him. And one Betta fish alone in a tank is the easiest thing in the world to medicate. It's just something to keep an eye on. His colours are going to change with time and as he grows more, as with all bettas. You'll be fine, I'm certain you'll watch him like a hawk.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Just to recap.
Fishy - no name yet, arrives in about 12 hours (tomorrow morning)
Do I take out the tea bag of fish food tonight? And float acclimate him when he arrives? I will just go look how to do this properly.
And not feed him the first day?

I also made him a hide
 
GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
Just to recap.
Fishy - no name yet, arrives in about 12 hours (tomorrow morning)
Do I take out the tea bag of fish food tonight? And float acclimate him when he arrives? I will just go look how to do this properly.
And not feed him the first day?

I also made him a hide
Aww, he'll like the hide. Yes, take the food out before putting him in. Acclimating fish from the mail is different. Normally, you'd let the fish adjust to the temperature by floating the bag, then slowly put tank water into the bag to let them get used to the new parameters, then net the new fish and put him in, dispose of all water in the bag. That's what you'd do if he had been in the bag for 20 minutes on the way home from the pet store. But, he hasn't, so:

Firstly, ask the seller whether he's being shipped in a regular or breather bag. Regular bags will be mostly filled with air, enough oxygen for your fish. Breather bags can absorb oxygen through the walls of the bag. NEVER float breather bags. It will suffocate the fish very quickly. He's probably in a regular bag, but just double check.
Secondly, we cannot slowly add new water with a mailed fish. Being in the bag for much longer, a lot of ammonia has built up in it. Since the oxygen content is low, the pH will be very low, rendering the ammonia harmless. The moment you open the bag, all that oxygen goes into the water and your ammonia will become toxic very quickly, in a matter of minutes.

If you have a regular bag, float fishy for half an hour to temp acclimate. After that, open the bag. Most people will just dump the fish straight in, but I'll scoop a bit of tank water into the bag to get a 50/50 ratio, leave it for a minute or two (no longer) then put him in. Whichever eases your conscience the most.
If you have a breather bag, honestly, put tank water in for a few minutes, put straight in. Bettas are hardy. It's best to get mailed fish out immediately.
When he arrives and you open the package, give him a few minutes to sit in the box with just the lid open and keep the tank light off for at least 24 hours and throughout the whole acclimation. Remember, he's been in complete pitch black darkness for 24 hours and doesn't have eyelids. Gotta let him get used to light.

Don't be too worried about different parameters. Shipping is much worse with parameters going nuts and water quality. Just remember as soon as you open the bag, a timer starts ticking. And don't let any bag water get in the tank.

TL;DR float for half an hour, net him out and put in tank. Leave lights off.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
GuppyGal7 said:
Aww, he'll like the hide. Yes, take the food out before putting him in. Acclimating fish from the mail is different. Normally, you'd let the fish adjust to the temperature by floating the bag, then slowly put tank water into the bag to let them get used to the new parameters, then net the new fish and put him in, dispose of all water in the bag. That's what you'd do if he had been in the bag for 20 minutes on the way home from the pet store. But, he hasn't, so:

Firstly, ask the seller whether he's being shipped in a regular or breather bag. Regular bags will be mostly filled with air, enough oxygen for your fish. Breather bags can absorb oxygen through the walls of the bag. NEVER float breather bags. It will suffocate the fish very quickly. He's probably in a regular bag, but just double check.
Secondly, we cannot slowly add new water with a mailed fish. Being in the bag for much longer, a lot of ammonia has built up in it. Since the oxygen content is low, the pH will be very low, rendering the ammonia harmless. The moment you open the bag, all that oxygen goes into the water and your ammonia will become toxic very quickly, in a matter of minutes.

If you have a regular bag, float fishy for half an hour to temp acclimate. After that, open the bag. Most people will just dump the fish straight in, but I'll scoop a bit of tank water into the bag to get a 50/50 ratio, leave it for a minute or two (no longer) then put him in. Whichever eases your conscience the most.
If you have a breather bag, honestly, put tank water in for a few minutes, put straight in. Bettas are hardy. It's best to get mailed fish out immediately.
When he arrives and you open the package, give him a few minutes to sit in the box with just the lid open and keep the tank light off for at least 24 hours and throughout the whole acclimation. Remember, he's been in complete pitch black darkness for 24 hours and doesn't have eyelids. Gotta let him get used to light.

Don't be too worried about different parameters. Shipping is much worse with parameters going nuts and water quality. Just remember as soon as you open the bag, a timer starts ticking. And don't let any bag water get in the tank.

TL;DR float for half an hour, net him out and put in tank. Leave lights off.
Perfect. Thanks
 
GuppyGal7
Member
Ohh, and feeding him should be fine if your daughter wants to (because obviously, she will). He's just one fish, so it won't make any difference to the water. Just be aware from my experience, mailed fish don't have the best appetite for the first 12-24 hours. I got a trio of fancy guppies shipped overnight. They didn't start paying attention to flakes for a few days. They went rabid for mosquito larvae though. if you have any mosquito larvae in old buckets of water or ponds, I 10000% recommend it. My betta adores them. Mosquito diseases won't spread to fish, so as long as the water they're in is safe (i.e. regular tap/rain water you left outside), your fish have no risk of disease from them. They're a great treat as bettas eat them in the wild.
So feel free to feed him, but don't be alarmed if he isn't interested at first. Although, bettas are a lot more gluttonous than guppies, so he could immediately gobble it up anyways.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
*sigh*

I’m so upset. He arrived today, he’s just sitting in his bag in the tank to adjust to the water temp, but the pic he advertised must be an old photo because his fin rot is much more noticeable especially on his top fin.
This isn’t what I or Kadee wanted or needed for our first experience
 
mattgirl
Member
BeardieMama said:
*sigh*

I’m so upset. He arrived today, he’s just sitting in his bag in the tank to adjust to the water temp, but the pic he advertised must be an old photo because his fin rot is much more noticeable especially on his top fin.
This isn’t what I or Kadee wanted or needed for our first experience
I am so sorry to hear this. Hopefully you got him out of the bag and into clean water quickly. Often all it takes is fresh clean water to help heal this.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
He’s zooming around everywhere, eating the detritus worms, but I still think my flow is too strong, waiting on the fluval pre filter sponges to arrive that should help. Plus with the air pump stuffing out on me so no air stone the top of the water looking murky. Have new pump arriving tomorrow.

I didn’t leave him in his bagged water for long as I wanted him out of it given the state of his fins.

He is a funny guy though, keeps picking up odd coloured gravel thinking it’s food and spitting it out lol
 
GuppyGal7
Member
Aww, he looks adorable! I do agree he has finrot though. If he doesn't show any noticeable improvements you may need to treat him, but I'd give it at least a week. A Sponge on the filter outflow is a good idea for bettas.
You don't need so stress about the finrot though. Like I said, at worst it's $15 down the drain. It's not going to kill him without months of neglect. In better water quality he might improve on his own. Got a name yet? He looks pretty happy in his new home.
My Betta was constantly zooming in her new home for months. Like I said, they've never experienced this much space for most of their life. Imagine living in a small bedroom all your life and being gifted a mansion.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
GuppyGal7 said:
Aww, he looks adorable! I do agree he has finrot though. If he doesn't show any noticeable improvements you may need to treat him, but I'd give it at least a week. A Sponge on the filter outflow is a good idea for bettas.
You don't need so stress about the finrot though. Like I said, at worst it's $15 down the drain. It's not going to kill him without months of neglect. In better water quality he might improve on his own. Got a name yet? He looks pretty happy in his new home.
My Betta was constantly zooming in her new home for months. Like I said, they've never experienced this much space for most of their life. Imagine living in a small bedroom all your life and being gifted a mansion.
No name yet. Will leave that up to Kadee, she takes awhile with these things haha

Yeah I’m a little worried he’s annoyed at the flow but I have put sponge in the outlet pipe to slow it down somewhat. Im sure the person filter sponges over the outlets will work better when they arrive.

I’ve contacted the seller though because I think it’s unfair to sell a fish that’s not 100% without mentioning it. He’s denying it’s fin rot but I know better.

I hope he’s happy in there.

I have aquarium salt and Indian almond leaves on the way incase they are needed to hwlp
 
GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
No name yet. Will leave that up to Kadee, she takes awhile with these things haha

Yeah I’m a little worried he’s annoyed at the flow but I have put sponge in the outlet pipe to slow it down somewhat. Im sure the person filter sponges over the outlets will work better when they arrive.

I’ve contacted the seller though because I think it’s unfair to sell a fish that’s not 100% without mentioning it. He’s denying it’s fin rot but I know better.

I hope he’s happy in there.

I have aquarium salt and Indian almond leaves on the way incase they are needed to hwlp
Nice. Never used salt, but I've heard bettas like it, and it will help with the finrot. Bettas love almond leaves too. Your boy is a very lucky fish. I wouldn't be worried about the filter short term. There's plenty of spots where he can hide from it, so he's not constantly being pushed around. He has the ability to escape it. As for the seller, yeah, it's scummy selling a fish with finrot, but don't worry too much. It's the inside that counts.
 
Celestialpearl
Member
Glad you found the one for you. Unfortunate about his fins though. As mentioned before, with clean water it should resolve on its own. I have heard that it is not uncommon for fins to become a little torn after shipping. Long finned betas can easily tear their fins during shipping by thrashing about in the bag which typically is small with little water. Thus the fins get smacked/dragged against themselves and the bag.

Betas can also chomp on their own fins as maladaptive stress response. Shipping stress plus your high flow could result in this. Filter sponges on the outlet are a great idea! Glad you are already on it.

Indian almond leaf has antibiotic properties, so adding some of that will help the fins heal. If you don't like the look of the giant leaf, cut it into smaller leaf like slivers. You can boil the leaf in a little bit of water to water log it fast and add the leaf bits and tea directly into the tank. This will drop the pH (so don't get too excited when you test the water) from tannic acids in the leaf. It also makes the water brown and hazy giving a nice blackwater effect, though I find it fades quickly with water changes. If you don't like the look, just adjust the amount of leaf you use.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Celestialpearl said:
Glad you found the one for you. Unfortunate about his fins though. As mentioned before, with clean water it should resolve on its own. I have heard that it is not uncommon for fins to become a little torn after shipping. Long finned betas can easily tear their fins during shipping by thrashing about in the bag which typically is small with little water. Thus the fins get smacked/dragged against themselves and the bag.

Betas can also chomp on their own fins as maladaptive stress response. Shipping stress plus your high flow could result in this. Filter sponges on the outlet are a great idea! Glad you are already on it.

Indian almond leaf has antibiotic properties, so adding some of that will help the fins heal. If you don't like the look of the giant leaf, cut it into smaller leaf like slivers. You can boil the leaf in a little bit of water to water log it fast and add the leaf bits and tea directly into the tank. This will drop the pH (so don't get too excited when you test the water) from tannic acids in the leaf. It also makes the water brown and hazy giving a nice blackwater effect, though I find it fades quickly with water changes. If you don't like the look, just adjust the amount of leaf you use.
Hi

thanks for your reply

I added in 2 catappa leaves yesterday. 1 leaf per 15-30L of water and my tank is 57L.
I plan on doing 25% weekly WC - hoping that’s enough.
I do have a concern using the leaves because I have had to add oyster shell to raise my ph so don’t want it leaves dropping it drastically but will watch with daily testing for couple weeks.
Is it normal for them to spend all day searching for food? He doesn’t stop, keeps picking up odd coloured gravel thinking it’s food then spitting it out.
Also spends the majority of the time mid to lower level of the tank when I expected hm to spend lost of his time at the top half?....

this is where I have placed his leaves, he hides under the bottom on sometimes - super cute
 
mattgirl
Member
It sounds like Kadee's little guy is settling in well. He is doing what lots of fish do. He is foraging. Looking for tidbits of food.

I have to think the leaves aren't going to lower the pH any measurable amount. I have heard both the leaves and driftwood will lower the pH but if that was the case folks with a high pH would be able to easily lower theirs.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
I’m not sure if I’m seeing them getting worse or not, but all these photos taken tonight all within a minute of each other.
I got him at the end of flaring in one in which his fins actually look good but how can they look so vastly diff within minutes of each photo haha
A28D3902-FDE0-47D9-A044-6F4B3B9B5AE0.jpeg

27AABEF5-A386-4ACE-8885-A4A12D923DE9.jpeg

BA633F7B-F65A-4F29-9098-40C99740ECB4.jpeg

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3653E822-C9B7-47E7-99AF-FEDF5DA9DA02.jpeg

A28D3902-FDE0-47D9-A044-6F4B3B9B5AE0.jpeg
 
GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
I’m not sure if I’m seeing them getting worse or not, but all these photos taken tonight all within a minute of each other.
I got him at the end of flaring in one in which his fins actually look good but how can they look so vastly diff within minutes of each photo haha
A28D3902-FDE0-47D9-A044-6F4B3B9B5AE0.jpeg

27AABEF5-A386-4ACE-8885-A4A12D923DE9.jpeg

BA633F7B-F65A-4F29-9098-40C99740ECB4.jpeg

AC9556A8-6ACD-44A5-B7E1-D4221D65479A.jpeg

3653E822-C9B7-47E7-99AF-FEDF5DA9DA02.jpeg

A28D3902-FDE0-47D9-A044-6F4B3B9B5AE0.jpeg
Time will tell. You'll definitely notice if it gets worse. The fins will curl and waste away. You can start treatment now or keep monitoring him and see if things improve. He's flaring which is good because it means he's acting healthy. Your choice when to medicate.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Should I be removing the crushed oyster shells? My ph is climbing
 
mattgirl
Member
BeardieMama said:
Should I be removing the crushed oyster shells? My ph is climbing
You can but leaving it in there might be alright too. If you take it out keep an eye on the pH level and put it back if it starts dropping. The good thing about using it or crushed coral is that it will only raise it so high and no more. I can't tell you what number that is going to be. It depends on the chemistry of your water. The number for me will be different than the one for you.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Hey all

So I’m back lol
Everytime I do a 25% water change my water goes cloudy, is this just from stirring up the substrate?

Also, I did a 25% water change so was it correct to add in another half tbsp of aquarium salt back into that tank? (57L but water capacity only about 50L)

Here is today’s readings:
1st is tank ammonia
2nd is tap ammonia
3rd tap left right tank (because I couldn’t tel if j was seeing ammonia or not)

Mr still has no name so I’m going to end up calling him something myself soon haha.

He is quite the aggressive little guy, super curious! When I give him a mirror for a minute or two he goes nuts like a bull at a gate
 
mattgirl
Member
Numbers are looking great. Are you able to move on to weekly water changes now? Personally I would stop replenishing the salt with each water change. I don't know if Bettas are comfortable living in salt water.

I wouldn't show him his reflection in the mirror either. They flair to warn away other males that come into their territory. I know it makes them look beautiful but since he isn't 100% healthy I would want to keep his stress level down as low as possible.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
mattgirl said:
Numbers are looking great. Are you able to move on to weekly water changes now? Personally I would stop replenishing the salt with each water change. I don't know if Bettas are comfortable living in salt water.

I wouldn't show him his reflection in the mirror either. They flair to warn away other males that come into their territory. I know it makes them look beautiful but since he isn't 100% healthy I would want to keep his stress level down as low as possible.

I have been doing only weekly water changes, however today’s was a few day late, so it’s really only the second water change since I got him, so only replenished the salt once as directed to try treat his fin rot?..

Today i actually though I saw ammonia but the photo doesn’t match what my eyes saw haha

I was told by his breeder it was good to do occasional mirror time for exercise? If that’s wrong then I would definitely STOP that IMMEDIATELY.

Really hard to tell if he’s had progression in the fin rot department too but here’s some pictures from today! So hard to get pics cos he’s super super active and hardly ever stays still
 
mattgirl
Member
He is a beautiful boy.

I could be wrong but I really don't think fish need anything extra to exercise their fins. This fish looks to have been bred to have exceptionally long thick fins. I hate to even think it but I do have to wonder if fin problems will be an ongoing problem for Mr. He may eventually start fin biting if they get to where they bother him. If he does, a very low dose of salt may have to be kept in his water for its ongoing healing properties.

I have a strong suspicion this little fellow is going to live a long healthy life under your care and watchful eye. Remember, fresh clean dechlorinated water at the proper temp is the very best thing you can give this little guy.
 
GuppyGal7
Member
BeardieMama said:
I have been doing only weekly water changes, however today’s was a few day late, so it’s really only the second water change since I got him, so only replenished the salt once as directed to try treat his fin rot?..

Today i actually though I saw ammonia but the photo doesn’t match what my eyes saw haha

I was told by his breeder it was good to do occasional mirror time for exercise? If that’s wrong then I would definitely STOP that IMMEDIATELY.

Really hard to tell if he’s had progression in the fin rot department too but here’s some pictures from today! So hard to get pics cos he’s super super active and hardly ever stays still
It's very common to exercise bettas like that. I have girls so I've never done it, but there's nothing wrong with it. It depends on the Betta. Some of them love it, it stressed out others. Depends on your guy. Don't worry.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
GuppyGal7 said:
It's very common to exercise bettas like that. I have girls so I've never done it, but there's nothing wrong with it. It depends on the Betta. Some of them love it, it stressed out others. Depends on your guy. Don't worry.
He seems to enjoy the exercise with the mirror?.... but then I’m no fish so not sure what enjoyment for them looks like haha but he sure has the biggest appetite - I don’t give in though. He would eat all day if I let him. (Don’t worry I’m aware of the ability to get bloat and pine coning - don’t want that ever happening)
 
mattgirl
Member
BeardieMama said:
He seems to enjoy the exercise with the mirror?.... but then I’m no fish so not sure what enjoyment for them looks like haha but he sure has the biggest appetite - I don’t give in though. He would eat all day if I let him. (Don’t worry I’m aware of the ability to get bloat and pine coning - don’t want that ever happening)
I have to think as long as he is active he is getting all the exercise he needs. I really don't see flaring as exercise. Flaring mode is fighting mode for a Siamese Fighting Fish. Having him flair from time to time isn't a problem but I wouldn't be having him doing it on a daily basis. Of course this is only my opinion. :) Others see things differently.

I know what you mean about wanting to eat all day long. If we gave in to them all our fish would end up couch potatoes :D I have to wonder if it would be best to spread their meals out and just give them one or maybe two bites at a time instead of a full meal one time a day.

I feel sure that is the way it is with their wild cousins since they have to hunt for their food. It would be even better if we could feed them live food that they have to actively hunt. That may be difficult to accomplish though.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
I have purchased a Shrimpery and am going to hatch small quantities of Brine Shrimp for him cos i feel he would benefit from live insects occasionally

P.S how do i get emojis to show up, i insert them but they disappear haha
 
mattgirl
Member
BeardieMama said:
I have purchased a Shrimpery and am going to hatch small quantities of Brine Shrimp for him cos i feel he would benefit from live insects occasionally

P.S how do i get emojis to show up, i insert them but they disappear haha
I really don't know about the emojis. I know the html code for a few and the few I know seem to work. I am thinking the forum was having problems with the ones that used to be available. I think it is something he is working on.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
Water parameters seem stable apart from the PH which is stil on the rise, am tempted to now take out the OS since no longer cycling....
Also seems that since I’ve baffled the filter flow with an pre filter sponge on the outlet that I have ‘dead spots’ in the tank.
I freaked out thinking “ammonia spike” but thankfully not.
Any ideas on how to avoid these dead spots?
 
mattgirl
Member
Now that your cycle is complete go ahead and remove the oyster shells. Just keep an eye on the pH level. If it starts dropping quickly and continues to drop and it looks like it is going to drop below the level of your tap water add just a little bit back. This may or may not happen. Only time will tell.

If you aren't already running one maybe adding a small sponge filter to the area you are concerned about will help.
 
GuppyGal7
Member
Those dead spots can just be cleaned up with regular vacuuming. Nothing to worry about. Your filter can handle the ammonia.
 
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BeardieMama
Member
GuppyGal7 said:
Those dead spots can just be cleaned up with regular vacuuming. Nothing to worry about. Your filter can handle the ammonia.
I ended up doing a complete gravel vac, which resulted in almost 100% water change because clearly I overdo stuff grr

I really hope this doesn’t mess my cycle up?

I wiped down the glass before the water vac too cos it was sliming with gunk all over it and also in the old tank water rinsed off all the ornaments.

I don’t know how ppl do this with ease in huge tanks cos I struggle with just my 57L
Also is this typical behaviour because he always seems so manic

 
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BeardieMama
Member
Last nights test were
7.2
0
0
0

Today’s water test shows everything is all good apart from the **** PH again (as I didn’t put the OS back in after the water change. So at least I didn’t screw up the cycle with the large water change however I don’t know what to do about the ph. It’s sitting between 6.6-6.8.

should I just leave it as is without OS to see what it does or add in half the OS I originally had in there?
I have a feeling his frantic behaviour yesterday after the large water change might have been ph shock?
 
mattgirl
Member
BeardieMama said:
Last nights test were
7.2
0
0
0

Today’s water test shows everything is all good apart from the **** PH again (as I didn’t put the OS back in after the water change. So at least I didn’t screw up the cycle with the large water change however I don’t know what to do about the ph. It’s sitting between 6.6-6.8.

should I just leave it as is without OS to see what it does or add in half the OS I originally had in there?
I have a feeling his frantic behaviour yesterday after the large water change might have been ph shock?
You may have to constantly keep the OS in there. Add half the original amount and see if that amount will stabilize the pH. If not, add more.
 

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