Need help...cycle crashed, now re-cycling with fully stocked planted tank.

[Viper1965]

Hi,

I initially began a discussion about this on reddit, and found this forum today, and thought I might post my issues here.

Ok, I started my 20g planted tank in June. By August, I believed it was cycled. What I didn't know is the following: Along with using at the time Quick Start, I should have been adding a small bit of food. So, although my water parameters changed and then settled, my tank probably was not cycled. Then I began adding fish. Tank is also planted.

First batch of fish, everything went ok. I test water daily (API master kit). Then, after a couple of weeks, I added more fish. Same process, and after 2 more weeks, things seemed to be ok. Then, third and last batch of fish. All was ok for like 3 days, then boom, first fish loss, and tank water parms were way out of wack.

The advice I have received, and aggregated to discern the best info, was that my cycle probably crashed. (Probably by adding too many fish too quickly), or that my cycle was never established in the first place.

Now I have a real dilemma. I have a fully stocked planted tank, and probably no cycle, and must cycle with fish. Here is what I have been doing for the last 9 days.

Daily 30+ % water changes. Initially, before beginning this process, I did an 80% water change, btw. Dosing with api tap water conditioner and prime after each (actually in) the water changes. Also, adding stability as per bottle instructions.

I continue to do this daily, but I am not seeing any real change in water tests that I would consider positive. I've lost 4 fish in this period as well.

So, each day, I test the water, do a 30+% water change and use tap water conditioner/prime. And, still adding stability, as it says to use with water changes. My daily test results are abysmal.

Example, pH was low, but is now normal, probably because I added 12 1" limestone rocks (~7.0). Ammonia: off the charts daily. Nitrite: was very high, but getting somewhat lower, but I haven't checked today yet. Nitrate: minimal to none.

I need advice as to how to get this now stocked tank to cycle. And, an estimate of just how long it might take?

Any/All advice appreciated.

I really don't want to lose anymore fish, what water is crystal clear, yet it just doesn't want to cycle.

I have no means of removing the fish from the tank to a quarantine area, btw. I must handle this as the tank currently is.

Any questions you have, please ask. I will provide any answers I can.

I know in a fishless cycle, you should use stability for 9 days, and that is with adding an ammonia source. But, I did not add an ammonia source. ( Did not know this at the time)

So, please help. I am older, and these daily water changes are killing me.

Thank You,

Viper

 

[mattgirl]

Welcome to Fishlore

We will try to help. What are the actual numbers for ammonia and nitrites? You can change out more than 30% of the water if necessary to get both numbers down to safer levels. You can even do more than one water change a day.

You say you are adding tap water conditioner and Prime. Prime is a water conditioner so no need to add the other one. Right now the most important thing you can do is get both ammonia and nitrites down to safer levels. I would try to keep the total amount of ammonia plus nitrites below 1ppm. Personally I would stop adding Stability and if at all possible get either Fritz-Zyme Turbo boost 700 or Tetra Safe Start plus. Both of these bottled bacteria contain the same type of bacteria we are growing in our tank.

The fact that your pH is low is a plus. The higher the pH the more toxic the ammonia becomes. Try to keep yours where it is now at least until this cycle is complete. Between the low pH and the use of Prime the fish shouldn't be in as much distress. .

Fish in cycles are totally doable even with a high bio-load but it is probably going to take daily water changes of 50% or more to keep the fish safe. It is unfortunate that you have lost some fish but hopefully we can save most of them.

One more thing. what kind of filter are you running on this tank? An under filtered tank struggles to keep up with the bio-load.

 

[prasunchoudhari]

30% water change each day is like way too much for cycling the tank with fish as the fishes might feel stressed with drastic changes in parameters every day
the deaths were not actually caused due to the collapse of your cycle but it was caused due to regular (daily) water changes.
what i suggest is 30% water change weekly instead of changing 30% daily

 

[Azedenkae]

Well, if the your ammonia and stuff are super duper high, I'd recommend doing a 100% water change to save your fish. Smaller water changes may not cut it and is likely to just prolong the fish' suffering in bad water quality. Rather stress them a bit with a 100% water change, than keep doing smaller ones while still have them deal with constant ammonia and/or nitrite stress. Especially since ammonia is off the charts.

Even a 75% water change only reduces ammonia down to like 2+ppm, which is not that much better.

Then, after the 100% water change, proceed as a fish-in cycle. Use Prime or some similar ammonia detoxifer to prevent the ammonia from being toxic to your fish. If approaching levels where Prime or similar cannot detoxify ammonia anymore, do water changes instead. Note that Prime allegedly makes ammonia non-toxic for fish, but the ammonia is still there to be used by the nitrifiers, and can also be registered on most test kits.

 

[prasunchoudhari]

Well, if the your ammonia and stuff are super duper high, I'd recommend doing a 100% water change to save your fish. Smaller water changes may not cut it and is likely to just prolong the fish' suffering in bad water quality. Rather stress them a bit with a 100% water change, than keep doing smaller ones while still have them deal with constant ammonia and/or nitrite stress. Especially since ammonia is off the charts.

Even a 75% water change only reduces ammonia down to like 2+ppm, which is not that much better.

Then, after the 100% water change, proceed as a fish-in cycle. Use Prime or some similar ammonia detoxifer to prevent the ammonia from being toxic to your fish. If approaching levels where Prime or similar cannot detoxify ammonia anymore, do water changes instead. Note that Prime allegedly makes ammonia non-toxic for fish, but the ammonia is still there to be used by the nitrifiers, and can also be registered on most test kits.

the reason that fish are dying is drastic water parameter changes caused by 30% water change everyday. even if there is a spike in the ammonia levels, the major reason is change in parameters everyday.
instead what is proffered is 100% water change and then do a fish-in-cycle with 20% water change on weekly basis to keep the parameters at its place

 

[Azedenkae]

the reason that fish are dying is drastic water parameter changes caused by 30% water change everyday. even if there is a spike in the ammonia levels, the major reason is change in parameters everyday.
instead what is proffered is 100% water change and then do a fish-in-cycle with 20% water change on weekly basis to keep the parameters at its place

The ammonia is literally off the charts... a 30% water change brings it down to 5.6ppm minimum, but likely gonna be higher than that. Still very high. Your suggestion of a weekly 30% water change in this event would result in op's fish swimming in such high ammonia for a week before another 30% water change... which still results in op's fish swimming in very high ammonia...

Regardless of what is 'generally recommended', in this particular case dealing with that extremely high ammonia is far more important.

 

[Bwood22]

Hi,

I initially began a discussion about this on reddit, and found this forum today, and thought I might post my issues here.

Ok, I started my 20g planted tank in June. By August, I believed it was cycled. What I didn't know is the following: Along with using at the time Quick Start, I should have been adding a small bit of food. So, although my water parameters changed and then settled, my tank probably was not cycled. Then I began adding fish. Tank is also planted.

First batch of fish, everything went ok. I test water daily (API master kit). Then, after a couple of weeks, I added more fish. Same process, and after 2 more weeks, things seemed to be ok. Then, third and last batch of fish. All was ok for like 3 days, then boom, first fish loss, and tank water parms were way out of wack.

The advice I have received, and aggregated to discern the best info, was that my cycle probably crashed. (Probably by adding too many fish too quickly), or that my cycle was never established in the first place.

Now I have a real dilemma. I have a fully stocked planted tank, and probably no cycle, and must cycle with fish. Here is what I have been doing for the last 9 days.

Daily 30+ % water changes. Initially, before beginning this process, I did an 80% water change, btw. Dosing with api tap water conditioner and prime after each (actually in) the water changes. Also, adding stability as per bottle instructions.

I continue to do this daily, but I am not seeing any real change in water tests that I would consider positive. I've lost 4 fish in this period as well.

So, each day, I test the water, do a 30+% water change and use tap water conditioner/prime. And, still adding stability, as it says to use with water changes. My daily test results are abysmal.

Example, pH was low, but is now normal, probably because I added 12 1" limestone rocks (~7.0). Ammonia: off the charts daily. Nitrite: was very high, but getting somewhat lower, but I haven't checked today yet. Nitrate: minimal to none.

I need advice as to how to get this now stocked tank to cycle. And, an estimate of just how long it might take?

Any/All advice appreciated.

I really don't want to lose anymore fish, what water is crystal clear, yet it just doesn't want to cycle.

I have no means of removing the fish from the tank to a quarantine area, btw. I must handle this as the tank currently is.

Any questions you have, please ask. I will provide any answers I can.

I know in a fishless cycle, you should use stability for 9 days, and that is with adding an ammonia source. But, I did not add an ammonia source. ( Did not know this at the time)

So, please help. I am older, and these daily water changes are killing me.

Thank You,

Viper

Define "batch of fish". How many fish and what kind of fish are in this 20 gallon tank?

What are your current water parameters?

I know this isn't what you want to hear...but water changes are the only way to get thru this. You have to keep the ammonia and nitrite diluted. You can use Prime to detoxify it for 24 hours but that cannot be a substitute for changing water.

Also if you can add an airstone you should. Dechlorinators like Prime deplete oxygen from the water and since we are trying to fish in cycle we need as much oxygen in the water as we can get.

 

[prasunchoudhari]

The ammonia is literally off the charts... a 30% water change brings it down to 5.6ppm minimum, but likely gonna be higher than that. Still very high. Your suggestion of a weekly 30% water change in this event would result in op's fish swimming in such high ammonia for a week before another 30% water change... which still results in op's fish swimming in very high ammonia...

Regardless of what is 'generally recommended', in this particular case dealing with that extremely high ammonia is far more important.

well op said he is using prime so it will neutralize ammonia for 24 hrs
so till the time sufficient bacteria colony is formed, the prime will look after ammonia and weekly 20% water change will look towards the other water parameters

 

[Flyfisha]

Hey Viper1965
Welcome to fishlore.
There are already many people trying to help.
I would recommend you follow mattgirl ‘s advice she has helped many people cycle their tanks

 

[prasunchoudhari]

Define "batch of fish". How many fish and what kind of fish are in this 20 gallon tank?

What are your current water parameters?

well the most important question

Hey Viper1965
Welcome to fishlore.
There are already many people trying to help.
I would recommend you follow mattgirl ‘s advice she has helped many people cycle their tanks

well
whoever's advice is followed, do the procedures with utmost faith in that person and the outcome will always be positive

 

[Coradee]

Welcome to Fishlore Viper1965

Everyone please wait & give the Op time to respond with their test results rather than make assumptions & debate with each other.

 

[Viper1965]

I have read all replies thus far. Thanks to you all.

To mattgirl, I have the ability to get either of the suggested biostarters that were mentioned. Which one is best? The difference in cost is minimal, so for me, it is a question of what is the best product to use. Can I also assume that Prime not only detoxifies ammonia, but dechlorinates the water being added as well?

And to the rest of you that replied thus far.

I am using an Eheim Classic 250 filter, which I did clean, in siphoned tank water after the 80% change.

If I DON'T do daily water changes, although the ammonia is high, and only do them weekly, what method should I use to detox the ammonia to keep the fish from suffering?

If I add one of the suggested bio-starter products, and cease to use stability, what can I expect to see happen during daily water testing? I will attach a picture of today's parameters.

When I did the 80% water change, the ammonia and nitrite both went to 0. So, essentially, I did do what is being suggested, but the very next day, ammonia was quite high again.

Admittedly, my "batches" of fish were probably too large, and in too short of a period of time. First I added 6, then 6 more, then I think 6 more (unsure here). I do now also have guppy fry in the tank, born prior to this situation.

If adding one of those starters is a good idea, let me know how to proceed, and how to maintain during the process.

Thanks to you all....

Viper

 

[Azedenkae]

well op said he is using prime so it will neutralize ammonia for 24 hrs
so till the time sufficient bacteria colony is formed, the prime will look after ammonia and weekly 20% water change will look towards the other water parameters

Prime needs to be dosed 1x dosage per 1ppm, up to 5x dosage. I.e. it can be used to safely detoxify up to 5ppm ammonia. Ignoring nitrite for the moment, since Prime needs to detoxify both here, after a 30% water change there is still more ammonia than what Prime can detoxify when dosed to the highest safest possible level. Let alone current levels.

 

[Bwood22]

I have read all replies thus far. Thanks to you all.

To mattgirl, I have the ability to get either of the suggested biostarters that were mentioned. Which one is best? The difference in cost is minimal, so for me, it is a question of what is the best product to use. Can I also assume that Prime not only detoxifies ammonia, but dechlorinates the water being added as well?

And to the rest of you that replied thus far.

I am using an Eheim Classic 250 filter, which I did clean, in siphoned tank water after the 80% change.

If I DON'T do daily water changes, although the ammonia is high, and only do them weekly, what method should I use to detox the ammonia to keep the fish from suffering?

If I add one of the suggested bio-starter products, and cease to use stability, what can I expect to see happen during daily water testing? I will attach a picture of today's parameters.

When I did the 80% water change, the ammonia and nitrite both went to 0. So, essentially, I did do what is being suggested, but the very next day, ammonia was quite high again.

Admittedly, my "batches" of fish were probably too large, and in too short of a period of time. First I added 6, then 6 more, then I think 6 more (unsure here). I do now also have guppy fry in the tank, born prior to this situation.

If adding one of those starters is a good idea, let me know how to proceed, and how to maintain during the process.

Thanks to you all....

Viper

0 nitrates here is really not a good look.
Of the 2 products that mattgirl suggested i would recommend the fritz zyme turbo start 700. You should find it refrigerated as it contains actual live nitrifying bacteria as opposed to the room temperature bottled bacteria that contains bacteria still in the spore state.
This will give you the fastest results.
Do a big water change and add it as you fill the tank back up.

18 guppies in 20 gallons isn't horrible under cycled circumstances but could be brutal to your water in an uncycled tank.

 

[Dunk2]

If I DON'T do daily water changes, although the ammonia is high, and only do them weekly, what method should I use to detox the ammonia to keep the fish from suffering?

Simply said, water changes aren’t optional for fish-in cycles. There are no products or methods that can replace them.

If you’re willing to do them and follow mattgirl advice, you’ll have a successful fish-in cycle.

 

[Viper1965]

Ok, thank you.

I went ahead and ordered the Fritzyme product, mentioned by mattgirl.

I am sure I can follow the dosage instructions, but to get this right, can you provide me some information. I chose the Fritzyme due to the fact that it mentioned the quickest cycle time. I am assuming the other product has many more reviews on Amazon due to the fact that it is much cheaper.

My questions:

1. I should receive the Fritzyme in 2 days. What should I do in preparation.
2. Until I receive it, should I continue the way I have been. (Assuming so)
3. Once I receive it, any best practice instructions from you veterans on how/what to do to my tank prior to adding it?
4. Once adding, what daily steps should I follow?

I am assuming this product is only added once, I believe it said 1oz per 10 gallons. Should I maintain testing (of course), and daily water changes as I have been, using only Prime with the water changes, and no dechlorinator?

Should I change the water prior to the adding of Fritzyme? My thinking is yes, but I want to be sure.

Thanks so much again.

Viper

 

[Bwood22]

Should I change the water prior to the adding of Fritzyme?

Yes, definitely. You want to dilute the ammonia and nitrite as much as possible before you add it in. The fish will produce more (obviously) but you want that bacteria to have as much time to find a surface to attach to before you have to change water again.

 

[Viper1965]

Thank You. And in regards to water changes. Since I have fish, I am assuming to proceed as I have been. Also, just Prime, and not tap water conditioner?
Also, just noticed that this delivery will be between 9/30 and 10/5. Most things only take 2 days, that is why I said that in the first place.

Also, perhaps a 50% or so water change prior to Fritzyme? A bit more than the daily 30+% I've been doing. Does that sound feasible.

Thank You.

 

[Bwood22]

Thank You. And in regards to water changes. Since I have fish, I am assuming to proceed as I have been. Also, just Prime, and not tap water conditioner?
Also, just noticed that this delivery will be between 9/30 and 10/5. Most things only take 2 days, that is why I said that in the first place.

Also, perhaps a 50% or so water change prior to Fritzyme? A bit more than the daily 30+% I've been doing. Does that sound feasible.

Thank You.

Prime is water conditioner...probably one of the best on the market.

Your water test parameters need to dictate how much water you change.
You need to do your best to keep your ammonia and nitrite levels below 1ppm.

 

[Viper1965]

There probably is not such a beast, as so many factors are to be considered, but is there some utility whereas I can enter tank volume and ammonia and nitrite levels, and get the result of how much water to change? I know...silly question. This is my first time endeavoring to keep fish since I was married, over 25 years ago, and back them, there was no Prime, or anything like there is now. I used to breed Convict Cichlids, as at the time, Cichlids were my favorite fish, as well as I've kept a Ghost Knife, Oscar, and a I'm forgetting the name, but looks somewhat like a Pirana, but without the teeth and red belly. I'm sure it will come to me. That is the only fish I've ever named, and he was called Hank. Outgrew the tank, so I gave him back to the lfs.

So, if such a calculator exists, let me know...

Thanks.

 

[Bwood22]

There probably is not such a beast, as so many factors are to be considered, but is there some utility whereas I can enter tank volume and ammonia and nitrite levels, and get the result of how much water to change? I know...silly question. This is my first time endeavoring to keep fish since I was married, over 25 years ago, and back them, there was no Prime, or anything like there is now. I used to breed Convict Cichlids, as at the time, Cichlids were my favorite fish, as well as I've kept a Ghost Knife, Oscar, and a I'm forgetting the name, but looks somewhat like a Pirana, but without the teeth and red belly. I'm sure it will come to me. That is the only fish I've ever named, and he was called Hank. Outgrew the tank, so I gave him back to the lfs.

So, if such a calculator exists, let me know...

Thanks.

Not that I know of. But rough division should be ok.

E.g. 4ppm/50% water change = 2ppm (which is still too much ammonia OR nitrite)
Therefore an 80% water change should get you below 1ppm in that scenario.

Just test before and after you change water...if levels are too high afterwards and you need to change some more....well, you gotta do it.

Change lots of water and Test test test.

It won't be like this for long. You can do it.

 

[mattgirl]

I am sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. I wasn't feeling well yesterday. Thankfully others have answered some of your questions during my absence.

It is good that you are getting the Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start 700. From all I've read about it it is a very good product. Since you said they are about the same price I am concerned that what you have coming might not actually be the turbo start. This is one that must be kept refrigerated. If it is turbo start I do hope they are sending it in an insulated box. The good thing is by the time you get this product your cycle may very well be well on its way to complete. As others have said, get the ammonia down as low as possible before adding the bottled bacteria since you are going to want to hold off on water changes for a few days after adding it.

As to keeping the ammonia down. Right now the only way to do so is by doing water changes and adding Prime with each water changes because some ammonia is going to be left even after big water changes. Bwood22 explained how to determine how much water to change with each water change. Let your numbers be your guide. 50% water changes will lower the ammonia by half so if it is 2ppm the water change will lower it to 1ppm.

One thing it seems you are not clear about yet. Prime is first and foremost a water conditioner designed to remove chlorine so it is your dechlorinater. It is the only product you need to remove the chlorine from your tap water. The reason we recommend using it is because it goes one step farther and also detoxes low levels of ammonia.

Also if you can add an airstone you should. Dechlorinators like Prime deplete oxygen from the water and since we are trying to fish in cycle we need as much oxygen in the water as we can get

This has been proven to be untrue. A member here with the equipment to test it out proved that Prime does not lower the oxygen level even when massive amounts of it are added. Airstones are good but a sponge filter instead is better if an airstone is going to be added. Sponge filters are the perfect place for lots of good bacteria to grow and thrive.

 

[Bwood22]

This has been proven to be untrue. A member here with the equipment to test it out proved that Prime does not lower the oxygen level even when massive amounts of it are added. Airstones are good but a sponge filter instead is better if an airstone is going to be added. Sponge filters are the perfect place for lots of good bacteria to grow and thrive.

Well it is definitely the case with Seachem Safe. I've seen my fish go into shock and even lost a few in the past from using too much Safe (which is very easy to do). I was under the impression that Prime and Safe were different forms of the same thing.
I couldn't figure out why my fish were acting the way they were after a water change when my temp, and PH were all within relative levels before and after.
The last time that happened all of the fish hit the bottom of the tank and are either breathing heavily or not breathing at all, some start turning sideways and others have their noses in the substrate......I was freaking out. It was the Safe, be very careful with that stuff if you ever use it.
An immediate 50% water change using Prime to condition the water instead of Safe instantly brought them all back to normal and I didn't lose any the last time that happened.

 

[mattgirl]

Well it is definitely the case with Seachem Safe. I've seen my fish go into shock and even lost a few in the past from using too much Safe (which is very easy to do). I was under the impression that Prime and Safe were different forms of the same thing.
I couldn't figure out why my fish were acting the way they were after a water change when my temp, and PH were all within relative levels before and after.
The last time that happened all of the fish hit the bottom of the tank and are either breathing heavily or not breathing at all, some start turning sideways and others have their noses in the substrate......I was freaking out. It was the Safe, be very careful with that stuff if you ever use it.
An immediate 50% water change using Prime to condition the water instead of Safe instantly brought them all back to normal and I didn't lose any the last time that happened.

Your experience tells us Safe and Prime are not the same.

 

[Bwood22]

Your experience tells us Safe and Prime are not the same.

Lol i guess I would have to agree.

 

[PAcanis]

If it is turbo start I do hope they are sending it in an insulated box.

I Googled this yesterday when mentioned, as it seems Fluval Cycle does nothing to boost BB. At least not in my tank.
According to some reviews and questions on Amazon, The Turbo is NOT shipped in an insulated box with an ice pack.
I'd be suspect even if my LFS had it that it was shipped to them that way.

How are you guys buying this to be sure it has been shipped and kept refrigerated?
Or is it a case of "refrigerate after opening"? It sounds like great stuff. And it's certainly priced that way.

BTW, great thread. The different approaches and for or against posts were enlightening.

 

[AP1]

I am basically a newbie and so would want mattgirl or someelse more experienced to confirm whether the following makes sense or not:

The OP did not state what they are doing during water changes I believe? Are you just sucking out water, or are you making an attempt to gravel vac or at least suck fish waste, etc. off the bottom? If not, perhaps the high ammonia readings are due in part to a high level of fish waste and organic matter in the substrate? I.e. perhaps there is just a ton of matter on the bottom that is decaying and ammonia levels will take a long to come down unless this is dealt with?

I do know there are different opinions on gravel vacuuming,so just an idea, and again perhaps someone else can confirm whether this makes any sense or not. (and of course the OP can confirm how they are going about the water changes)

 

[mattgirl]

I am basically a newbie and so would want mattgirl or someelse more experienced to confirm whether the following makes sense or not:

The OP did not state what they are doing during water changes I believe? Are you just sucking out water, or are you making an attempt to gravel vac or at least suck fish waste, etc. off the bottom? If not, perhaps the high ammonia readings are due in part to a high level of fish waste and organic matter in the substrate? I.e. perhaps there is just a ton of matter on the bottom that is decaying and ammonia levels will take a long to come down unless this is dealt with?

I do know there are different opinions on gravel vacuuming,so just an idea, and again perhaps someone else can confirm whether this makes any sense or not. (and of course the OP can confirm how they are going about the water changes)

This is actually a very good point so thank you for bringing it up. With this many fish in this size tank siphoning out the excess fish waste if it is building up is a good thing to do.

I Googled this yesterday when mentioned, as it seems Fluval Cycle does nothing to boost BB. At least not in my tank.
According to some reviews and questions on Amazon, The Turbo is NOT shipped in an insulated box with an ice pack.
I'd be suspect even if my LFS had it that it was shipped to them that way.

How are you guys buying this to be sure it has been shipped and kept refrigerated?
Or is it a case of "refrigerate after opening"? It sounds like great stuff. And it's certainly priced that way.

BTW, great thread. The different approaches and for or against posts were enlightening.

We really have no way to know how this product is handled from the factory to us. From all I've read about the turbo start it is supposed to be kept refrigerated all the way from factory to us. I wouldn't be comfortable buying it online unless it was guaranteed to be shipped in an insulated box with ice pack. Even then we don't know how it was handled beforehand.

The few folks that have used it here have had better success with it than lots of other brands of bottle bacteria. I think there is another one, also called Fritz-Zyme. From what i can see it doesn't have to be refrigerated and the price is comparable to other bottled bacteria unlike the FZ turbo start 700.

 

[PAcanis]

Thanks, mattgirl !

I was hoping y'all had a goto online source.
But then it would cost as much as getting seafood shipped to you, lol.

 

[Viper1965]

I am vacuuming the gravel when I do water changes.

 

[prasunchoudhari]

I am vacuuming the gravel when I do water changes.

if you are getting this high levels of ammonia even after vacuuming the gravel, you need to go on doing water changes till the time the numbers are pretty low.


there is no other way round.
please note before adding turbo booster 700 please do a water change so that the level of ammonia is low.

 

[Viper1965]

Thanks.

Will do a major water change prior to using Turbo boost 700; was planning on it.

Viper

 

[Bwood22]

Thanks.

Will do a major water change prior to using Turbo boost 700; was planning on it.

Viper

If that is being shipped to you. Im very curious to know if it comes in cold, how it was shipped and where it came from.

That's good info for everyone to have especially if they do it right.

 

[Viper1965]

I bought it from Amazon. It has not come in yet. But, after reading previous posts, I decided to message the company regarding this issue. I asked, since I bought from Amazon, exactly how it will be shipped; temp controlled or not, or if it even matters... I have not gotten a response yet.

When it arrives, or I get a response, or either, I will post to let you all know.

Thanks,

Viper

 

[Bwood22]

I bought it from Amazon. It has not come in yet. But, after reading previous posts, I decided to message the company regarding this issue. I asked, since I bought from Amazon, exactly how it will be shipped; temp controlled or not, or if it even matters... I have not gotten a response yet.

When it arrives, or I get a response, or either, I will post to let you all know.

Thanks,

Viper

It absolutely matters. That not your typical bottle of bacteria.

Most bottled bacteria is kept at room temperature on the store shelf or in the fish cabinet. Those varieties only contain bacteria spores that, when added to the tank, need time to grow to the point that they can perform their function correctly.

What you have just purchased is a bottle of Live Nitrifying Bacteria, it MUST be refrigerated. It MUST be packaged and shipped correctly. It CANNOT get warm.
Each bottle is packaged with a finite amount of "food" for the bacteria to live on while in the bottle. That's why it has a much shorter shelf life. Keeping it cold slows down the metabolism of the bacteria so it stays alive longer.

 

[Viper1965]

I will report when I get it.

 

[Viper1965]

Received turbo boost 700 today. It came from an aquatics company, and was in a bubble foil insulated bag with an ice pack inside. I immediately put in in the refrigerator.

Tomorrow, I will do a massive water change (~90%), and begin the process.

If anyone has any other advice, please let me know.

Thanks.

Viper

 

[Azedenkae]

Received turbo boost 700 today. It came from an aquatics company, and was in a bubble foil insulated bag with an ice pack inside. I immediately put in in the refrigerator.

Tomorrow, I will do a massive water change (~90%), and begin the process.

If anyone has any other advice, please let me know.

Thanks.

Viper

Just one, remember to give it a good shake before you dose! :3 Other than that, good luck!

 

[Viper1965]

I planned on it, and will follow the instructions to the letter.

As many of you know, I have doing ~>30% water changes with prime daily. Have not had any more fish loss. Today, I did over 50% water change. Takes me longer and is a bit more difficult, as I have health issues, but I did it.

So, tomorrow, I will do the massive water change, refill using Prime, and actually, from what I've read, dose 5x the normal amount. Instructions on their website said you can do that.

I have, regardless of the water changes, had rather high ammonia levels daily (2-4ppm), as well as high Nitrites (.5-1ppm), and very little, yet measurable Nitrate (not 0ppm). I really don't understand the chemistry behind what is going on. I do know this though. I have new guppy fry! They are so tiny compared to the semi grown fry I currently have. So, the water conditions must not be consistently that bad, at least for the female to give birth, and the fry to still exist.

Also, today I cleaned the prefilter of my Eheim Classic 250. I had noticed that my water output from the outlet was diminished. So, upon cleaning (in siphoned tank water), it was literally covered in brown slime. I would LOVE to know what that means. I am sure it was holding up intake, hence lower output. Anyone, please explain if this is normal, and how often should one clean prefilters?

Thanks to all of you!

Viper

 

[mattgirl]

Yes, it is normal for the pre-filter to get gunked up pretty badly. If it is fairly dense foam it may have to be rinsed every few days. If you could get one with less dense foam it might go longer between cleaning.

I am happy to hear that your turbo start was handled correctly. Hopefully it will work really well. I did want to mention. There really isn't a need to add 5X a normal dose of Prime. A normal amount of it should work just fine since the big water change should get the ammonia level down very low.

 

[Flyfisha]

I am following along with interest since my post on #9. Your comment on the 5x dose being a maximum safe dose raises a point i would like to ask mattgirl’s opinion on please?

How do you interpret the directions on Prime mattgirl. Do you think 1 ppm of ammonia and nitrites is the maximum Prime can detox or is it as some people seem to assert that by adding more and more Prime it can detox anywhere up to 5 ppm before becoming an over dose. I have always assumed 1 ppm was all it could help with for 48 hours regardless of adding more than the recommended dose.

 

[Azedenkae]

I am following along with interest since my post on #9. Your comment on the 5x dose being a maximum safe dose raises a point i would like to ask mattgirl’s opinion on please?

How do you interpret the directions on Prime mattgirl. Do you think 1 ppm of ammonia and nitrites is the maximum Prime can detox or is it as some people seem to assert that by adding more and more Prime it can detox anywhere up to 5 ppm before becoming an over dose. I have always assumed 1 ppm was all it could help with for 48 hours regardless of adding more than the recommended dose.

Seachem's instructions says it can be safely dosed up to 5x normal dosage, in response to up to 5ppm ammonia or nitrite: https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000125454-Info-Prime-dosing-instructions

That's their instructions anyways. I have indeed dosed up to 5x normal dosage before without any negative issues to live stock. Though whether it does actually detox that much ammonia/nitrite is a different question.

It seems like the reason why the limit is 5x dosage is not that it cannot detoxify higher concentrations of ammonia or nitrite, but rather it can deplete oxygen too extensively: https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...FAQ-Is-it-possible-to-overdose-Seachem-Prime-

 

[mattgirl]

I am following along with interest since my post on #9. Your comment on the 5x dose being a maximum safe dose raises a point i would like to ask mattgirl’s opinion on please?

How do you interpret the directions on Prime mattgirl. Do you think 1 ppm of ammonia and nitrites is the maximum Prime can detox or is it as some people seem to assert that by adding more and more Prime it can detox anywhere up to 5 ppm before becoming an over dose. I have always assumed 1 ppm was all it could help with for 48 hours regardless of adding more than the recommended dose.

This is a good question. I interpret it to mean it is safe to add 5X the normal dose. I don't interpret it to mean it will detox 5X the amount of ammonia. This question comes up from time to time. At one point a member that had the equipment to test it out tried to determine how much Prime it would take to start depleting the oxygen. If I am remembering the numbers correctly even 40X the recommended amount didn't affect the oxygen level. Under normal circumstances any sensible person would never waste that much Prime

To be perfectly honest I don't specifically recommend it to help with nitrites. The main reason I don't is it wasn't designed to do so. Although it wasn't designed to do so lots of folks said it did. They said it often enough it became a fact and is now widely passed on. It may or it may not. I do highly recommend it when doing a fish in cycle to detox the ammonia though.

I started using it during a fish in cycle and have continued to use it although all my tank are well established. My main reason for using it is it takes so little of it to get the job done. Once a tank is cycled or someone is doing a fishless cycle any of the many water conditioners will work just as well.

Unfortunately Prime has become so popular folks have come to believe they have to have it and think it somehow helps cycle a tank. It doesn't. It is simply a water conditioner that detoxes low levels of ammonia.

 

[Viper1965]

I believe I may have been unclear about my proposed dosage information.

The 5x dosage is for turbo boost 700, as per instructions on their website, not prime.

Thank You!!

 

[Azedenkae]

I believe I may have been unclear about my proposed dosage information.

The 5x dosage is for turbo boost 700, as per instructions on their website, not prime.

Thank You!!

Ah. XD

 

[prasunchoudhari]

Received turbo boost 700 today. It came from an aquatics company, and was in a bubble foil insulated bag with an ice pack inside. I immediately put in in the refrigerator.

Tomorrow, I will do a massive water change (~90%), and begin the process.

If anyone has any other advice, please let me know.

Thanks.

Viper

can you please share the link from where you bought it as you said that it came in ice pack this means that it is intact and hence we can recommend it to others who need it

 

[Viper1965]

Wanted to give you guys an update on my use of Turbo Boost 700. I did dose the entire 4oz bottle in a 20g tank. I will attach pics of the last 2 days test results, and more specifically, pH values using a pH probe, calibrated to tenths.

It does seem like the tank is cycling, rather quickly. What anomaly I did notice from before dosing with Turbo Boost 700, and the past 2 days is the rather drastic, imo, pH change. Prior do dosing, my pH was a solid 7.0. Day one (24 hrs) after dosing, pH went to 5.7, and now today, I couldn't be around to test exactly at 48 hrs, but I tested like 8 hours after that, and the pH is now 6.1...gradually going back up. This is not behavior that I expected or read about, but it does seem like the tank is cycling.

Attached are pics from the last 2 days of testing, post dosing.

Comments welcome, as always...

Viper

Wanted to give you guys an update on my use of Turbo Boost 700. I did dose the entire 4oz bottle in a 20g tank. I will attach pics of the last 2 days test results, and more specifically, pH values using a pH probe, calibrated to tenths.

It does seem like the tank is cycling, rather quickly. What anomaly I did notice from before dosing with Turbo Boost 700, and the past 2 days is the rather drastic, imo, pH change. Prior do dosing, my pH was a solid 7.0. Day one (24 hrs) after dosing, pH went to 5.7, and now today, I couldn't be around to test exactly at 48 hrs, but I tested like 8 hours after that, and the pH is now 6.1...gradually going back up. This is not behavior that I expected or read about, but it does seem like the tank is cycling.

Attached are pics from the last 2 days of testing, post dosing.

Comments welcome, as always...

Viper

As for the pH, I looked online about this, and could not find anything regarding this change. But, as it is going back up, I am not gonna worry yet...unless you guys tell me to!

 

[mattgirl]

I had not read about this happening either. Since it does appear to be going back up on its own I would just let it ride and see if it will go back up to where it started. Follow the instructions for using this bottled bacteria to a tee. If it says no water changes for a specific amount of time that is what we want to do.

I am assuming the photo on the left is the most recent test results. Seeing no ammonia or nitrites and the beginning of nitrates is good news.

 

[Viper1965]

I had not read about this happening either. Since it does appear to be going back up on its own I would just let it ride and see if it will go back up to where it started. Follow the instructions for using this bottled bacteria to a tee. If it says no water changes for a specific amount of time that is what we want to do.

I am assuming the photo on the left is the most recent test results. Seeing no ammonia or nitrites and the beginning of nitrates is good news.

The photos are named with the date and time (UTC). So, photo on the left is after day 1, and photo on the right is after day 2.

Thanks,
Viper

 

[mattgirl]

The photos are named with the date and time (UTC). So, photo on the left is after day 1, and photo on the right is after day 2.

Thanks,
Viper

Gotcha. I was kinda hoping the left was the most recent but no problem. I suspect the nitrites you are seeing now are from the fritz-zyme. I also suspect they won't last long. Of course I could be wrong but am hopeful.