Is this ick?

[ProudPapa]

Several of my fish had a few white spots a couple of weeks ago. I started treating with ParaGuard, and turned the heater up, and within a few days the spots cleared up. I thought everything was okay, so I turned the heater back down but continued with the ParaGuard. A few more days went by, and the white spots came back with a vengeance. This time it was dozens of spots on the infected fish instead of just a few.

I turned the heater back up (the thermometer in the opposite corner from the heater shows 86°), but it isn't getting better. I've lost 4 of my 6 Black Phantom tetras, and the other two aren't looking good, along with several of the Serpaes.

I'm still treating with ParaGuard, but don't know what else to do. Any ideas?

I forgot to mention that the infected fish just kind of hang out near the top of the tank and don't move much. I checked the water Thursday and everything looked good, but I did a 25% water change anyway.

 

[FishFor2018]

What size tank? What exactly are the water parameters? How long have you had these fish? Have they been in with any other fish, for example moved to or from a different tank? What size tank? Any other symptoms?

 

[ProudPapa]

You can see the tank details by clicking on the "Aquarium Details" drop-down beside my name. All the fish have been in the tank for several weeks, and this is my only tank.

I haven't noticed any other symptoms other than the ones with the white spots stay in one place and kind of twitch most of the time. I've read that ick will make them feel itchy, so maybe that's why.

 

[ProudPapa]

Here are my test results from today. Oddly enough, it only seems to be affecting the serpaes and black phantoms. The white skirts, neons, mollies, corys, and the Gourami aren't showing any symptoms.

 

[PascalKrypt]

Ich can persist for a good while. You probably just didn't treat it thoroughly and long enough to get rid of it completely. What exact method did you use to treat it - what temperature did you use, and for how long? What temperature do you normally keep the tank at?

Ich is often caused by some stress factor in the environment. If it is affecting certain fish only, they could just be weaker genetically but it could also be that something is stressing them particular. Usually neon tetras are the first victims, so this a bit more unusual. Have you gotten the affected fish more recently? Do you observed your tank often - is there any bullying or fin nipping going on?

I can't see the colour of the ammonia test well but I'm assuming it is 0ppm?

 

[GlennO]

In my experience Paraguard is a good broad spectrum quarantine treatment but for a persistent case of Ich you may benefit from something stronger.

 

[ProudPapa]

Thank you for replying. Initially I turned the heat up to about 85°, but I only left it there a few days and then turned it back down to the upper 70's. I haven't noticed any aggression, other then the Gourami occasionally chasing a white skirt tetra for a few moments, but I've never seen him catch one. I've been wondering if I should put a female with him, but figured I shouldn't get any more fish until this clears up.

I watch the fish for an hour or so most evenings. The neons were the first fish I added, and 3 of the black phantoms were the last, on the first of this month.

I used the last of the ParaGuard yesterday. I don't remember exactly when I started with it, but it was at least two weeks ago. If I should continue with it I can borrow some from my daughter-in-law, or should I try another medication, or just wait it out?

The ammonia looks to be about 0.25, the nitrite at 0, and the nitrates at 5.0.

In my experience Paraguard is a good broad spectrum quarantine treatment but for a persistent case of Ich you may benefit from something stronger.

Thank you. Do you have a specific recommendation?

 

[GlennO]

Thank you. Do you have a specific recommendation?

I'm not US based and you have some different products available, however in my view those that contain a combination of formalin & malachite green are still the most effective. However, they will stain silicone and half doses are generally recommended for tetras.

Copper based products are also effective but with more restrictions, e.g. cannot be used if inverts are present (or even if you ever intend to keep them) and copper levels should be monitored.

Others might recommend heat treatment, there is plenty of info in the disease sub-forum.

 

[ProudPapa]

I'm working on the heat treatment now. My thermometer is in the opposite corner from the heater and it shows 86°. I'll try to find the information about how long I should leave it there.

Looking at your user name I'm guessing we share the same name, and you even spell it right; with two N's.

 

[GlennO]

Yes I feel sorry for those with only one n.

As far as duration my view is that you should continue heat treatment for at least a week (preferably two) beyond the last visible sign of the disease.

 

[PascalKrypt]

I'd be a bit worried about your ammonia being 0.25. That by itself isn't a big deal, but it is weird that you'd have ammonia present at all in a tank running for a while with the most recent stocking addition being pretty small and over two weeks ago.
It is possible you recently had a mini-cycle which we are now seeing the tail end of, and that may have caused the ich. Have you any idea what may have caused it? Do you clean your filter in any way? Made any changes in/to the tank recently other than the addition of fish?

Heat treatment should continue for at least ten days, I do believe I often her two weeks recommended (this is regardless of if you see ich or not, but if you see new spots appear from day 3 or so after the start of the treatment, it isn't working (before that time you can ignore)).

 

[ProudPapa]

I can't think of any changes recently, I haven't done anything with the filter.

And thanks again for trying to help. I'm sure I'll need much more as I progress.

I've learned quite a bit already. One of the more memorable lessons was when I bought some freeze-dried brine shrimp. When I opened the package I saw it was in cubes about 1/2" square (that's about 13mm for our friends that use the metric system), so I thought it would be a good idea to just put one in the tank to start. Thank goodness I did quit with one. I dropped it in, and it started expanding, and little pieces started floating off, and the fish started eating, and it looked like it would never stop. I finally got my net and got as much out as I could, but by that time many of my fish were hanging head-down at a 45° angle and jerking like they were coughing or gagging.

Now I just break off a little piece and give it to them every second or third day.

 

[PascalKrypt]

I can't think of any changes recently, I haven't done anything with the filter.

And thanks again for trying to help. I'm sure I'll need much more as I progress.

I've learned quite a bit already. One of the more memorable lessons was when I bought some freeze-dried brine shrimp. When I opened the package I saw it was in cubes about 1/2" square (that's about 13mm for our friends that use the metric system), so I thought it would be a good idea to just put one in the tank to start. Thank goodness I did quit with one. I dropped it in, and it started expanding, and little pieces started floating off, and the fish started eating, and it looked like it would never stop. I finally got my net and got as much out as I could, but by that time many of my fish were hanging head-down at a 45° angle and jerking like they were coughing or gagging.

Now I just break off a little piece and give it to them every second or third day.

We all learn many things the hard way. It is kind of the way of fishkeeping
As for freeze-dried foods, even if you feed a little bit it is always better to soak it for a minute or two in some water before letting your fish eat it. Freeze-dried food expands slowly as it comes into contact with water. If it is consumed while dry and the fish eats too much, and it then expands in the stomach, it can cause bloat.