Ich X Staining

[Arrow1oo]

Unfortunately I’m starting to see an early ich outbreak in my new 300 gallon tank despite quarantining.

Currently I only have 5 electric blue acara and 7 geophagus sveni in there. The only other inhabitants are a group of ramshorn snails in my sump refugium.

I’m considering using ich x but I’m concerned about staining as this is a new display tank.

The silicone is black, so no worries there. However, I also have a 3d background from universal rocks, pool filter sand and some artificial plants.

I have three options:

1. Treat with 86-87 degrees and Ich x and pray for no staining on the background, plants or sand.

2. Treat with 86-87 degrees and salt, but I need to remove the snails and save them until the salt is purged from the system.

3. Treat with only heat which I know isn’t always a complete cure as it just speeds up the life cycle of ich.

I’ve seen lots of different reviews about whether or not ich x stains but would love some input before I move forward.

Edit: Also wondering if there’s an alternative that doesn’t stain.

 

[Fishfur]

Unfortunately I’m starting to see an early ich outbreak in my new 300 gallon tank despite quarantining.

Currently I only have 5 electric blue acara and 7 geophagus sveni in there. The only other inhabitants are a group of ramshorn snails in my sump refugium.

I’m considering using ich x but I’m concerned about staining as this is a new display tank.

The silicone is black, so no worries there. However, I also have a 3d background from universal rocks, pool filter sand and some artificial plants.

I have three options:

1. Treat with 86-87 degrees and Ich x and pray for no staining on the background, plants or sand.

2. Treat with 86-87 degrees and salt, but I need to remove the snails and save them until the salt is purged from the system.

3. Treat with only heat which I know isn’t always a complete cure as it just speeds up the life cycle of ich.

I’ve seen lots of different reviews about whether or not ich x stains but would love some input before I move forward.

Just so you’ll know, a great many of the strains of Ich we have these days have become very heat & salt resistant so neither of those methods is a sure cure.

As for speeding up the life cycle, well, once the temperature has reached about 75F, the life cycle will be as fast as it can ever be. Raising temperatures higher than that in hopes of speeding up the life cycle is pointless.

For heat resistant Ich, you pretty much have to raise the temperature higher than is tolerable for fish and other wet pets and for a lot of plants.

Holding a temperature of 90F for 24 hours should be sufficient to kill the tomonts (reproductive life stage) as well as theronts (the swimming larvae). That’s hot enough to badly stress if not kill a lot of our plants though there are a few that can take it.

104F for an hour will work too and is much faster excepting that the extra 14 degrees would likely make fricassee of most plants.

I think you’re better off using the medication but there certainly is a risk of staining.

I’d want to just remove decor items so they don’t get stained and they can be heat treated to kill tomonts outside the tank.

The sand might stain or might not.

The malachite green in medications will stain porous ceramic materials & porous stone but quartz isn’t porous and white pool filter sand is typically made from quartz. So it may not stain but you’d have to try it and see what happens.

You could try using formalin alone but it isn’t as easy. It won’t stain but you will probably have to dose it daily because it breaks down quite fast and it is extremely nasty stuff - proper PPE must be worn and it must be handled & stored safely.

Formalin will reduce the amount of dissolved oxygen so additional aeration is very important and under no circumstances should the temperature be higher than it must be for the fish.

At 82F or more it could cause a critical shortage of dissolved oxygen plus the toxicity of formalin increases as temperature increases.

 

[Arrow1oo]

Just so you’ll know, a great many of the strains of Ich we have these days have become very heat & salt resistant so neither of those methods is a sure cure.

As for speeding up the life cycle, well, once the temperature has reached about 75F, the life cycle will be as fast as it can ever be. Raising temperatures higher than that in hopes of speeding up the life cycle is pointless.

For heat resistant Ich, you pretty much have to raise the temperature higher than is tolerable for fish and other wet pets and for a lot of plants.

A temperature of 90F for 24 hours should be sufficient to kill tomonts as well as theronts (the swimming larvae). That’s likely to badly stress if not kill most plants though there are a few that can take it.

104F for an hour will work too and is much faster but the extra 14 degrees would likely fricassee most plants.

I think you’re better off using the medication but there certainly is a risk of staining.

I’d want to remove decor items so they wouldn’t get stained and they can be heat treated to kill tomonts outside the tank.

The sand might stain - the malachite green will stain porous ceramic materials & porous stone but quartz isn’t porous and white pool filter sand is typically made from quartz. So it may not stain but you’d have to try it and see what happens.,

You could also try using formalin alone but it isn’t as easy. No stains but you will probably have to dose daily because it breaks down quite fast and is very nasty stuff - proper PPE must be worn and it must be stored safely.

It reduces the amount of available dissolved oxygen so aeration is important and under no circumstances should the temperature be higher than it must be for the fish. At 82F or more it could cause a critical shortage of dissolved oxygen plus its toxicity increases as temperature increases.

Appreciate the reply. I’m curious to see what other opinions I’ll get here.

I feel like I’ve heard almost on every source I’ve seen that raising above 75 definitely helps speed up the life cycle of ich, so I’m surprised to hear that it doesn’t.

 

[Fishfur]

Appreciate the reply. I’m curious to see what other opinions I’ll get here.

I feel like I’ve heard almost on every source I’ve seen that raising above 75 definitely helps speed up the life cycle of ich, so I’m surprised to hear that it doesn’t.

Most sites & advisors are repeating what’s been said elsewhere ad infinitum without ever bothering to check out the actual biology of the Ichthyopthirius multifiliis organism.

Look up their biology and you’ll find that their life cycle is maxed out between 75-79F.

CIR920/FA006: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish

So raising the temperature to the mid eighties is pointless if the goal is to speed up the life cycle.

 

[Arrow1oo]

Most sites & advisors are repeating what’s been said elsewhere ad infinitum without ever bothering to check out the actual biology of the Ichthyopthirius multifiliis organism.

Look up their biology and you’ll find that their life cycle is maxed out between 75-79F.

CIR920/FA006: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish

So raising the temperature to the mid eighties is pointless if the goal is to speed up the life cycle.

I could have misread, but from what I saw on here it said that range up till 75 will result in 3-6 days life cycle.

I didn’t see the article explicitly state going beyond 75 won’t speed it up even more.

If it did say that could you point it out to me.

 

[A201]

I believe the heat method is still effective, if the Ich outbreak is caught early.

The 86 - 87 degree temperature does speed up the Ich life cycle. It also appears to discourage reattachment.

Using the heat method with a parasite expellant such as (Microbe Lift Herbtana) might be worth trying.

I have cured early Ich by the heat method a time or two. Probably due to luck rather than skill.

The most direct, best way to treat Ich would be to dose Ich-X. I completely understand your reluctance to use a chemical cure. I feel the same way.

If your fish are just flashing & shimmying & the parasites aren't visible, the problem might not be Ich, but could be Flukes.

If that's the case Prazipro would be the go to medication. Praziquantel is one of the safest, non staining medication, available.

 

[Fishfur]

Here’s another article and a quote from it.

https://aquaculture.mgcafe.uky.edu/...edu/files/srac_476_ich_white_spot_disease.pdf

Quote”
However, in a case in central Florida, Ich was responsible for killing fish at 92o F (33o C). To complete its life cycle, Ich requires from less than 4 days (at temperatures higher than 75o F or 24o C) to more than 5 weeks (at temperatures lower than 45o F or 7o C)”Unquote

Bold & italicized text above is mine and it would have been helpful if the article stated how much less than four days.

No resource I can find specifically states a shorter time than 3 days for a complete life cycle at any temperature and most hedge a little by referring to either 3-6 or 4-6 days at a temperature of 24 - 25C (75.2 - 77F).

To me this means that under ideal circumstances and with some strains of Ich but not all of them, the life cycle could be as short as 3 days but there’s no practical way to tell if the prevailing conditions are ideal nor whether the strain of Ich that’s present is the fastest one or a slower one.

The article cited above does make a brief mention that Ich have some difficulty reproducing properly at temperatures over 85F but gave no further details so it’s difficult to say what effect that would have on a treatment protocol.

Raising water temperatures into the mid 80s F has at least one downside, in that the warmer water is, the less dissolved oxygen (DO) it contains.

At 75F and at sea level with 100% air saturation, freshwater contains 8.3 -8.4 mg/l of DO but at 86F that drops to 7.4-7.5 mg/l.

Temperature & altitude & water depth affect the amount of DO that’s available and so does the respiration rate of the aquatic life that’s living in it. So we can’t count on a tank having optimal levels of DO all the time.

For these reasons I think it makes sense to avoid raising water temperature any higher than is essential for a given situation.

Vigorous extra aeration is necessary to get DO levels back to the maximum possible level when water is very warm.

In any case, if you elect to use a medication with formalin in it, it’s a bad idea to have the temperature higher than 82F because formalin increases the loss of DO at any temperature and becomes more toxic at higher temperatures.

 

[bgarthe]

I think there are three ideal treatments for Ich. Somethings just have to be attacked with chemicals…….like
IchX, Kordon Rapid Cure, and Seachem Paraguard. With any if these, follow directions and treat for several days/a week after you see the last white spots. Apply each treatment a short while before lights out as free swimming stages of Ich are more active at night and would be exposed to the treatment at its strongest concentration.