40 Gallon Tank Cycle stuck in nitrite stage - dont know what to do anymore....

[Zeeth29]

I have had this previously established 40 gallon stuck at the nitrite stage of cycling for over three months. For a few weeks I thought it was finally fully cycled, ammonia and nitrites were both at 0 and did a small water change to reduce the nitrate levels (80ppm) now a few hours later nitrite is it at 5.0ppm again and my favorite fish is dead.
To make matters worse, it's a fish in cycle, I have a ridicules level of ammonia in my well water (8.0ppm) That I have been using zeolite to combat; putting a bag of the stuff in a 5-gallon bucket to reduce the ammonia to 0.25 in 24 hours, then doing a water change; and practically no GH. Please, I'm at my wits' end here and I'm just about done with this mess

Ph 7.4
Ammona 0
niritr 5.0ppm
nirate 8.0ppm

 

[Zeeth29]

I'll stay out of the testkit question, but if there has been purified (= RO/DI/distilled) water used all the time I would NOT change to bottled mineral water at all.
When using RO water, please always check KH, GH and TDS. Otherwise changes in osmotic pressure may end badly.

Thankfully I've avoided that mistake. I don't have access to RO water and another family member uses the distilled water, it not mine.

OK that is potentially giving you the culprit.

Before doing anything else, what is the use by date on your test kit please?
And do you sterilise the test tubes tween tests?

My suspicious and cynical mind is leaning towards a bad test kit. If the water smells like a normal river or babbling brook, the fish/plants show no obvious reddening or breathing issues and the fish are active and eating normally.......my suspicion heads right at the test kit being faulty or out of use by date thus the testing chemicals have broken down and giving you false positives.

If you try the bottled water, make sure you check the label for pH and mineral content and change the water across slowly over 3 or 4 weeks of water changes, don't change it all over in one go as that will freak out the fish and cause extra issues with stress.

But before you go that route, check the test kit use by and batch number....if in date range, you might feel like checking with API on the batch number incase of a recall cos not all recall notices get through to the customer level. With the results you are getting it is leaning towards a bad kit or one out of date range or combination of those two.

I can't seem to find the use by date but the number is says it #34. I will definitely test the bottled water if thats what this whole mess comes down to.

 

[Basil]

Thankfully I've avoided that mistake. I don't have access to RO water and another family member uses the distilled water, it not mine.

I can't seem to find the use by date but the number is says it #34. I will definitely test the bottled water if thats what this whole mess comes down to.

The lot # and expiration date should be on the individual bottles.

 

[Zeeth29]

The lot # and expiration date should be on the individual bottles.

Found it through its only on the PH bottles if that matters. They both say LOT 28A0720 EX 07/25.

 

[pagoda]

Found it through its only on the PH bottles if that matters. They both say LOT 28A0720 EX 07/25.

You should be able to find the details on all the bottles as Basil said....and in many cases the tub that everything came in, often well hidden on the lid or underneath on the bottom

 

[MacZ]

Since starting this thread I've been using PRIMQ purified water. The local wall Mart sells 5 gallon jugs that you can bring back and refill for like $5.

I was referring to that. Purified usually means RO. But meanwhile I looked up the supplier and saw that they first run it through RO and then remineralize. Quite a goldmine and I find it a blatant lie to advertise their water is environment friendly, when even industrial RO units produce at least a 1:1-ratio of RO to wastewater.

 

[Zeeth29]

I think this is it?

 

[Zeeth29]

I think I'm just going to go ahead and get a new test kit. Some of the bottles are running low anyway. In the mean time I do have some tetra test strips. I know they are not the best but better than nothing right?

 

[Zeeth29]

So according to these strips
Ammonia is 0
Nirite is 0
Nirate is 20-40
I hope these are correct. It will be another week atleast until I can get a new test kit.

 

[Zeeth29]

Well after a couple of days the test kit says ammonia is at 0.25 while the test strip claims 0. Soooo there's that.

 

[Basil]

Well after a couple of days the test kit says ammonia is at 0.25 while the test strip claims 0. Soooo there's that.

There is thought that the api gives false positive ammonia results. It also measures both free ammonia plus hound ammonia or ammonium.
I rarely use the api to test ammonia and just have the Seachem ammonia alerts on all my tanks.

 

[Zeeth29]

There is thought that the api gives false positive ammonia results. It also measures both free ammonia plus hound ammonia or ammonium.
I rarely use the api to test ammonia and just have the Seachem ammonia alerts on all my tanks.

Maybe I should get some of those as well. How often do they need to be replaced?

 

[Basil]

Maybe I should get some of those as well.

My very nice LFS recommended them to me. I’ve seen reviews that state they don’t correlate with the api test, therefore they don’t work but since the alerts only measure free ammonia, I kind of discounted those reviews.
All mine have always stayed yellow which is safe. That is until I set up my 10 g betta tank last fall. And of course, I only set it up 2 days before the betta was due to arrive instead of a week or so. Anyway, I used old gravel that I just had sitting in a bucket. Never rinsed it since I’m lazy like that lol!
Day before betta arrives, the alert is green which is warning. Api test read 4.0 ppm of ammonia! Oops. But the alert worked.
Long story has a good ending. I did a bit of a fish-in cycle and tank was cycled in a week (also had a seeded sponge filter that I had in another tank but again, didn’t get it in there as far in advance as I wanted!)

 

[Zeeth29]

My very nice LFS recommended them to me. I’ve seen reviews that state they don’t correlate with the api test, therefore they don’t work but since the alerts only measure free ammonia, I kind of discounted those reviews.
All mine have always stayed yellow which is safe. That is until I set up my 10 g betta tank last fall. And of course, I only set it up 2 days before the betta was due to arrive instead of a week or so. Anyway, I used old gravel that I just had sitting in a bucket. Never rinsed it since I’m lazy like that lol!
Day before betta arrives, the alert is green which is warning. Api test read 4.0 ppm of ammonia! Oops. But the alert worked.
Long story has a good ending. I did a bit of a fish-in cycle and tank was cycled in a week (also had a seeded sponge filter that I had in another tank but again, didn’t get it in there as far in advance as I wanted!)

Well I'm sold! Guess I'm adding them to the list.

 

[Zeeth29]

I was referring to that. Purified usually means RO. But meanwhile I looked up the supplier and saw that they first run it through RO and then remineralize. Quite a goldmine and I find it a blatant lie to advertise their water is environment friendly, when even industrial RO units produce at least a 1:1-ratio of RO to wastewater.

Hmm so until I get a ro system myself what would be more wasteful, continue to use this primo with there wasteful water or buying more crystal geyser which I can't reuse the bottles and they only come in 1 gallons?

 

[Zeeth29]

So I got my new test kit in today and the results are......disappointing.
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nirite 0
Nirate 20.ppm
After testing I went ahead and got some crystal geyser topped off my tanks just a little to see what it goes to the water.

 

[Andres391]

Try adding some red lava rocks they do help with Nitrates I heard some nitrates are actually good for your plants but red lava rocks help me they must have or allow denitrifying bacteria to thrive in the pores.

 

[Zeeth29]

Try adding some red lava rocks they do help with Nitrates I heard some nitrates are actually good for your plants but red lava rocks help me they must have or allow denitrifying bacteria to thrive in the pores.

Is Grey feather rock not the same thing basically?

 

[Andres391]

They may be but I never tried those particular rocks and obviously thats not working for you I had black lava rocks nothing happened but the red ones did the trick like I said not sure why but it seems to work for other people to

 

[Zeeth29]

They may be but I never tried those particular rocks and obviously thats not working for you I had black lava rocks nothing happened but the red ones did the trick like I said not sure why but it seems to work for other people to

Good point. I have nothing to lose by trying it.

 

[Zeeth29]

I got my seachem ammonia alert today and so far it says safe. I'll have to wait and see if it changes.

 

[Zeeth29]

Next day and it still says safe. I don't understand how but the test kit says the ammonia has jumped up! And just to add to the confusion the tetra test strip say 0 too. Sigh
Ammonia 4.0ppm
Nirite 0
Nirate 40ppm

 

[Basil]

Huh. So that would seem to indicate you have a lot of bound versus free ammonia.
When I set up my betta tank last year and it was cycling, the ammonia alert was green and the api test was at 4 ppm.

 

[Zeeth29]

Huh. So that would seem to indicate you have a lot of bound versus free ammonia.
When I set up my betta tank last year and it was cycling, the ammonia alert was green and the api test was at 4 ppm.

Hmm so what do I do about this?

 

[Zeeth29]

Got red lava rocks today after rinsing them off stuck them in the filter; A aqua clear 70 with a big pre-filter spong on the intake. I had to remove the feather rock so I just stuck them in a corner. They look nice so I might have to work them in the tank setup.

 

[Zeeth29]

Did about a 30% water change yesterday or the day at before,I honestly can't remember. The ammonia alert has stayed at the "safe" color throughout the last week or so. Today the API test kit reads the ammonia level as 1.0ppm in room lighting but in sunlight it's either 0.25ppm or maybe even 0. I think it is probably the former because of all the trumpet snails climbing the glass.

 

[Zeeth29]

Tested my water today after seeing a Cory flashing and my Raindowfish looked to be breathing heavy. Ammonia is still at 1.0ppm. Is anybody still here?

 

[Basil]

Yeah, still here but I have no clue!

 

[Zeeth29]

Yeah, still here but I have no clue!

Lol at least Im not alone.

 

[Zeeth29]

OK so today my api test kit says either 0.50ppm or 0.25ppm. So it has gone down with me doing nothing but feeding my fish. No water changes since last wensday. The ammonia alert has never changed.

 

[Basil]

Still a mystery but then I’m not a chemist to be able to help with some theories. .
Hopefully it continues to go and stay down!

 

[Zeeth29]

Still a mystery but then I’m not a chemist to be able to help with some theories. .
Hopefully it continues to go and stay down!

Fingers crossed.

 

[Zeeth29]

The ammonia test today reads the same as last time. Definitely 0.50 ppm

 

[Zeeth29]

I had to do a water change yesterday, nitrates were getting too high. I would say it was about 20% to 30% and today the ammonia readings are either 0.25 to 0.50 ppm so progress in a way.

 

[Zeeth29]

Still 0.25 or 0.50 ppm. No progress

 

[Zeeth29]

Did a water change yesterday. No change in ammonia. My brother is tearing out the sink downstairs. Well see about getting a ro system in there and see if that changes anything.

 

[Zeeth29]

Well I finally got a RO unit! It has just been set up and going. Lets see if this works.

 

[Basil]

Well I finally got a RO unit! It has just been set up and going. Lets see if this works.

Good luck!
My well nitrates and occasional ammonia are no where near what you are dealing with so you might have to change out the filters and membrane more often. I have yet to change any of mine after 2 1/2 years of use but my water is still reading 0 tds and 0 nitrates. But I should probably do that soon!
And I’m in the process of switching from Seachem Equilibrium and alkaline buffer to Nilog liquid GH and KH booster. Didn’t even see if the Nilog is more expensive. It’s soooo much easier though since it’s liquid.
Is yours a RO/DI or just RO?

 

[Zeeth29]

I'll probably need that luck. It looks like it's a RO/DI model. I ran it for about 4 or 5 hours yesterday and got about half or maybe a little less of a 5 gal bucket. SO much waste water! I don't know what I was expecting but still. A question though, I have the seachem buffer should I add that to the bucket as it fils or wait until its full?

 

[Basil]

Yeah there is a ton of waste water. Mine drains right out to the septic field and slowly gets absorbed into the ground so I don’t consider it a total waste.
I mix the equilibrium in a gallon jug and the alkaline buffer in a glass jar and add them right before using. I make the water up in a 32 g Brute trashcan where I can heat it and run a large air stone. I leave the air stone running to help mix everything and then unplug and take out before I refill the tank. The Brute is on a wheeled dolly that attaches to the bottom.
I used to make it up the night before a WC but it tends to precipitate out of solution a bit. Hence switching to the liquid Nilog.

 

[Zeeth29]

I've let the water sit in a bucket for a day(maybe two.) I just tested the ammonia readings and its.............2.0 to 4.0ppm. Just how?

 

[Basil]

I have no idea.
What RO/DI unit did you get?
Do you have a well water specialist in your area that could help?
I’m thinking that water isn’t potable tor human use either.

 

[Zeeth29]

I have no idea.
What RO/DI unit did you get?
Do you have a well water specialist in your area that could help?
I’m thinking that water isn’t potable tor human use either.

It was this unit here.https://amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00LKF09IW?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
I don't know about any well specialist but it looks like I had better find out.
Edit: well I'm an idiot. I never turned the flush valve shut after opening it. So the water wasn't really getting filter'd. At least I think that's how it works.

 

[Zeeth29]

Well I've run some water through the unit the CORRECT way and the readings went much better. 1.0ppm, maybe 0.50ppm.

 

[Basil]

On mine, I usually flush before and after use. But the flush water goes out a different line than the filtered water. So it just goes down the drain. But I have flushed for quite a while because I forgot to turn it to filter. Oops!

 

[Zeeth29]

On mine, I usually flush before and after use. But the flush water goes out a different line than the filtered water. So it just goes down the drain. But I have flushed for quite a while because I forgot to turn it to filter. Oops!

ooooh. ok hopefully third times the charm.

 

[Zeeth29]

Third time was kinda the charm? It's reading about 0.25ppm to 0.50ppm so the lowest it's been yet. Progress I guess?

 

[Zeeth29]

Been slow on the updates because, of course, a pipe burst under the house. sigh. Its never easy.

 

[Zeeth29]

Where to even begin? After waiting for the pipe to be fixed, the power cut off to our house and the hunt for an electrician was ridiculous. The two major ones in my area are behind on their workload by three months because of covid. But that was eventually resolved and I don't even know where I left off! Lol.