40 Gallon Tank Cycle stuck in nitrite stage - dont know what to do anymore....

I have had this previously established 40 gallon stuck at the nitrite stage of cycling for over three months. For a few weeks I thought it was finally fully cycled, ammonia and nitrites were both at 0 and did a small water change to reduce the nitrate levels (80ppm) now a few hours later nitrite is it at 5.0ppm again and my favorite fish is dead.
To make matters worse, it's a fish in cycle, I have a ridicules level of ammonia in my well water (8.0ppm) That I have been using zeolite to combat; putting a bag of the stuff in a 5-gallon bucket to reduce the ammonia to 0.25 in 24 hours, then doing a water change; and practically no GH. Please, I'm at my wits' end here and I'm just about done with this mess

Ph 7.4
Ammona 0
niritr 5.0ppm
nirate 8.0ppm

 

Its progress. Slow, excruciating progress but still progress.

An aquarium is like a kettle....it always takes longer to boil when watching it....aquarium keepers discover the patience that they never ever thought that they had

It's always two steps forward and a dozen backwards with aquariums but you will get there....positivity and patience...vital ingredients for successful fishkeeping (and grey hair, bald spots, wrinkles, bags under the eyes, insomnia etc etc etc)

 

[/QUOTE](grey hair, bald spots, wrinkles, bags under the eyes, insomnia etc etc etc)
[/QUOTE]
Ahhh something to look forward too at least. I just wish I knew why the ammonia is so resistant to being reduced.

 

I had similar issues when I moved to my current address 13 years ago. Prior to moving here, never any issues with water quality for the fish at all....everything was as close to the optimum as you can possibly get.

Moved to a new flat, in a different county some 300 miles north of where I used to live. Nightmare in regard to water quality. It is AWFUL. Tastes foul, smells weird, goes cloudy at the drop of a hat. I refuse to drink it as its only good enough for showers, flushing the loo and doing the laundry & dishwashing.

So to get back to the optimum that I was so used to I spend around 30 to 40 quid a month on bottled spring water. for myself and the 5 aquariums. The fish are happy and healthy, no ammonia spikes, no issues with instability with pH or anything else. Same source, same pH, same minerals at same values across the board.

Yes it is an extreme cure for the tapwater issues that refused to stabilise, but at the end of the day, to me at least, its worth not having the heartache and expense of fish becoming ill and dying due to water issues.

I buy 4 packs of 40 x 500ml bottle packs of Kirkwood per month...which is available in Costco and Walmart in the US. I use the small bottles so that when refilling I can do it nice and slowly thus not shocking the residents with cold water gushing into their home.....I can control the way it is added and where in the aquarium it is added so the existing water and the bottled water mixes perfectly and without huge temperature drops. It is all from the same source, you can check on the pH etc on the bottle's label....shop around for best price so that it doesn't become too expensive and you recycle the empties.

It cured my water quality issues overnight, not looked back and still not using the tap water for me or my fish.

 

I had similar issues when I moved to my current address 13 years ago. Prior to moving here, never any issues with water quality for the fish at all....everything was as close to the optimum as you can possibly get.

Moved to a new flat, in a different county some 300 miles north of where I used to live. Nightmare in regard to water quality. It is AWFUL. Tastes foul, smells weird, goes cloudy at the drop of a hat. I refuse to drink it as its only good enough for showers, flushing the loo and doing the laundry & dishwashing.

So to get back to the optimum that I was so used to I spend around 30 to 40 quid a month on bottled spring water. for myself and the 5 aquariums. The fish are happy and healthy, no ammonia spikes, no issues with instability with pH or anything else. Same source, same pH, same minerals at same values across the board.

Yes it is an extreme cure for the tapwater issues that refused to stabilise, but at the end of the day, to me at least, its worth not having the heartache and expense of fish becoming ill and dying due to water issues.

I buy 4 packs of 40 x 500ml bottle packs of Kirkwood per month...which is available in Costco and Walmart in the US. I use the small bottles so that when refilling I can do it nice and slowly thus not shocking the residents with cold water gushing into their home.....I can control the way it is added and where in the aquarium it is added so the existing water and the bottled water mixes perfectly and without huge temperature drops. It is all from the same source, you can check on the pH etc on the bottle's label....shop around for best price so that it doesn't become too expensive and you recycle the empties.

It cured my water quality issues overnight, not looked back and still not using the tap water for me or my fish.

Since starting this thread I've been using PRIMQ purified water. The local wall Mart sells 5 gallon jugs that you can bring back and refill for like $5.
Today
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate somewhere between 20- 40 ppm

 

Since starting this thread I've been using PRIMQ purified water. The local wall Mart sells 5 gallon jugs that you can bring back and refill for like $5.
Today
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate somewhere between 20- 40 ppm

Stupid question, I know, but have you any of that water left that you can actually test?

I totally understand your frustrations with the ammonia. Finding the source can seem like an almost impossible task when you're faced with it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting the staff at Walmart, but is it possible that they are refilling your containers with something else such as normal tapwater.....or is there even the slightest chance that the containers are contaminated or have ammonium in their makeup/manufacturing process?

It was things like this that finally pushed me over to using bottled spring water. The water is from the same source, bottled in sterilised plastic bottles, UV treated twice to make sure nothing nasty manages to stay in the water (it is human consumption product so has to be 100% pure and without bugs etc). Cos at the end of the day there is only so much that you can do or check as an ammonia source, and you end up going round in circles losing all hope very quickly.

 

Stupid question, I know, but have you any of that water left that you can actually test?

I totally understand your frustrations with the ammonia. Finding the source can seem like an almost impossible task when you're faced with it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting the staff at Walmart, but is it possible that they are refilling your containers with something else such as normal tapwater.....or is there even the slightest chance that the containers are contaminated or have ammonium in their makeup/manufacturing process?

It was things like this that finally pushed me over to using bottled spring water. The water is from the same source, bottled in sterilised plastic bottles, UV treated twice to make sure nothing nasty manages to stay in the water (it is human consumption product so has to be 100% pure and without bugs etc). Cos at the end of the day there is only so much that you can do or check as an ammonia source, and you end up going round in circles losing all hope very quickly.

Not a stupid question at all. That's something I actually thought about. The water tested 0 for ammonia. But I guess it wouldn't hurt to double check. Luckily I still have some left, so I`ll bust out my test kit and see what it says..

 

Not a stupid question at all. That's something I actually thought about. The water tested 0 for ammonia. But I guess it wouldn't hurt to double check. Luckily I still have some left, so I`ll bust out my test kit and see what it says..

If you have exhausted, and I suspect that you have, all other potential ammonia sources and the water comes back clean....then apart from having fish that produce insane levels of waste, I can't fathom why you are getting ammonia.....unless the test is giving false positives, which is actually more than a possibility cos it does happen.

A bad test kit cos nothing is perfect all of the time would continually give false positives.

Another stupid question...what does the aquarium smell like? Even if you have a cold you can still smell the slightest ammonia in water.

 

Well......the water came out at 4.0ppm. No more PRIMO for me I guess. I had two other brands, so I gave those a test. The Distilled Arrowhead reads at about 1.0ppm to 0.50ppm. Crystal Geyser spring water came out at MAYBE 0 but it could be 0.25ppm. I think Ill switch to the spring water and see what happens. What does ammonia smell like? I would have to say that my tank smells like a river, though I have a very selective sense of smell. Some things I'm just nose blind too.

 

Well......the water came out at 4.0ppm. No more PRIMO for me I guess. I had two other brands, so I gave those a test. The Distilled Arrowhead reads at about 1.0ppm to 0.50ppm. Crystal Geyser spring water came out at MAYBE 0 but it could be 0.25ppm. I think Ill switch to the spring water and see what happens. What does ammonia smell like? I would have to say that my tank smells like a river, though I have a very selective sense of smell. Some things I'm just nose blind too.

OK that is potentially giving you the culprit.

Before doing anything else, what is the use by date on your test kit please?
And do you sterilise the test tubes tween tests?

My suspicious and cynical mind is leaning towards a bad test kit. If the water smells like a normal river or babbling brook, the fish/plants show no obvious reddening or breathing issues and the fish are active and eating normally.......my suspicion heads right at the test kit being faulty or out of use by date thus the testing chemicals have broken down and giving you false positives.

If you try the bottled water, make sure you check the label for pH and mineral content and change the water across slowly over 3 or 4 weeks of water changes, don't change it all over in one go as that will freak out the fish and cause extra issues with stress.

But before you go that route, check the test kit use by and batch number....if in date range, you might feel like checking with API on the batch number incase of a recall cos not all recall notices get through to the customer level. With the results you are getting it is leaning towards a bad kit or one out of date range or combination of those two.

 

I'll stay out of the testkit question, but if there has been purified (= RO/DI/distilled) water used all the time I would NOT change to bottled mineral water at all.
When using RO water, please always check KH, GH and TDS. Otherwise changes in osmotic pressure may end badly.

 

I'll stay out of the testkit question, but if there has been purified (= RO/DI/distilled) water used all the time I would NOT change to bottled mineral water at all.
When using RO water, please always check KH, GH and TDS. Otherwise changes in osmotic pressure may end badly.

Thankfully I've avoided that mistake. I don't have access to RO water and another family member uses the distilled water, it not mine.

OK that is potentially giving you the culprit.

Before doing anything else, what is the use by date on your test kit please?
And do you sterilise the test tubes tween tests?

My suspicious and cynical mind is leaning towards a bad test kit. If the water smells like a normal river or babbling brook, the fish/plants show no obvious reddening or breathing issues and the fish are active and eating normally.......my suspicion heads right at the test kit being faulty or out of use by date thus the testing chemicals have broken down and giving you false positives.

If you try the bottled water, make sure you check the label for pH and mineral content and change the water across slowly over 3 or 4 weeks of water changes, don't change it all over in one go as that will freak out the fish and cause extra issues with stress.

But before you go that route, check the test kit use by and batch number....if in date range, you might feel like checking with API on the batch number incase of a recall cos not all recall notices get through to the customer level. With the results you are getting it is leaning towards a bad kit or one out of date range or combination of those two.

I can't seem to find the use by date but the number is says it #34. I will definitely test the bottled water if thats what this whole mess comes down to.

 

Thankfully I've avoided that mistake. I don't have access to RO water and another family member uses the distilled water, it not mine.

I can't seem to find the use by date but the number is says it #34. I will definitely test the bottled water if thats what this whole mess comes down to.

The lot # and expiration date should be on the individual bottles.

 

The lot # and expiration date should be on the individual bottles.

Found it through its only on the PH bottles if that matters. They both say LOT 28A0720 EX 07/25.

 

Found it through its only on the PH bottles if that matters. They both say LOT 28A0720 EX 07/25.

You should be able to find the details on all the bottles as Basil said....and in many cases the tub that everything came in, often well hidden on the lid or underneath on the bottom

 

Since starting this thread I've been using PRIMQ purified water. The local wall Mart sells 5 gallon jugs that you can bring back and refill for like $5.

I was referring to that. Purified usually means RO. But meanwhile I looked up the supplier and saw that they first run it through RO and then remineralize. Quite a goldmine and I find it a blatant lie to advertise their water is environment friendly, when even industrial RO units produce at least a 1:1-ratio of RO to wastewater.

 

I think this is it?

 

I think I'm just going to go ahead and get a new test kit. Some of the bottles are running low anyway. In the mean time I do have some tetra test strips. I know they are not the best but better than nothing right?

 

So according to these strips
Ammonia is 0
Nirite is 0
Nirate is 20-40
I hope these are correct. It will be another week atleast until I can get a new test kit.

 

Well after a couple of days the test kit says ammonia is at 0.25 while the test strip claims 0. Soooo there's that.

 

Well after a couple of days the test kit says ammonia is at 0.25 while the test strip claims 0. Soooo there's that.

There is thought that the api gives false positive ammonia results. It also measures both free ammonia plus hound ammonia or ammonium.
I rarely use the api to test ammonia and just have the Seachem ammonia alerts on all my tanks.

 

There is thought that the api gives false positive ammonia results. It also measures both free ammonia plus hound ammonia or ammonium.
I rarely use the api to test ammonia and just have the Seachem ammonia alerts on all my tanks.

Maybe I should get some of those as well. How often do they need to be replaced?

 

Maybe I should get some of those as well.

My very nice LFS recommended them to me. I’ve seen reviews that state they don’t correlate with the api test, therefore they don’t work but since the alerts only measure free ammonia, I kind of discounted those reviews.
All mine have always stayed yellow which is safe. That is until I set up my 10 g betta tank last fall. And of course, I only set it up 2 days before the betta was due to arrive instead of a week or so. Anyway, I used old gravel that I just had sitting in a bucket. Never rinsed it since I’m lazy like that lol!
Day before betta arrives, the alert is green which is warning. Api test read 4.0 ppm of ammonia! Oops. But the alert worked.
Long story has a good ending. I did a bit of a fish-in cycle and tank was cycled in a week (also had a seeded sponge filter that I had in another tank but again, didn’t get it in there as far in advance as I wanted!)

 

My very nice LFS recommended them to me. I’ve seen reviews that state they don’t correlate with the api test, therefore they don’t work but since the alerts only measure free ammonia, I kind of discounted those reviews.
All mine have always stayed yellow which is safe. That is until I set up my 10 g betta tank last fall. And of course, I only set it up 2 days before the betta was due to arrive instead of a week or so. Anyway, I used old gravel that I just had sitting in a bucket. Never rinsed it since I’m lazy like that lol!
Day before betta arrives, the alert is green which is warning. Api test read 4.0 ppm of ammonia! Oops. But the alert worked.
Long story has a good ending. I did a bit of a fish-in cycle and tank was cycled in a week (also had a seeded sponge filter that I had in another tank but again, didn’t get it in there as far in advance as I wanted!)

Well I'm sold! Guess I'm adding them to the list.

 

I was referring to that. Purified usually means RO. But meanwhile I looked up the supplier and saw that they first run it through RO and then remineralize. Quite a goldmine and I find it a blatant lie to advertise their water is environment friendly, when even industrial RO units produce at least a 1:1-ratio of RO to wastewater.

Hmm so until I get a ro system myself what would be more wasteful, continue to use this primo with there wasteful water or buying more crystal geyser which I can't reuse the bottles and they only come in 1 gallons?

 

So I got my new test kit in today and the results are......disappointing.
Ammonia 1.0ppm
Nirite 0
Nirate 20.ppm
After testing I went ahead and got some crystal geyser topped off my tanks just a little to see what it goes to the water.

 

Try adding some red lava rocks they do help with Nitrates I heard some nitrates are actually good for your plants but red lava rocks help me they must have or allow denitrifying bacteria to thrive in the pores.

 

Try adding some red lava rocks they do help with Nitrates I heard some nitrates are actually good for your plants but red lava rocks help me they must have or allow denitrifying bacteria to thrive in the pores.

Is Grey feather rock not the same thing basically?

 

They may be but I never tried those particular rocks and obviously thats not working for you I had black lava rocks nothing happened but the red ones did the trick like I said not sure why but it seems to work for other people to

 

They may be but I never tried those particular rocks and obviously thats not working for you I had black lava rocks nothing happened but the red ones did the trick like I said not sure why but it seems to work for other people to

Good point. I have nothing to lose by trying it.

 

I got my seachem ammonia alert today and so far it says safe. I'll have to wait and see if it changes.

 

Next day and it still says safe. I don't understand how but the test kit says the ammonia has jumped up! And just to add to the confusion the tetra test strip say 0 too. Sigh
Ammonia 4.0ppm
Nirite 0
Nirate 40ppm

 

Huh. So that would seem to indicate you have a lot of bound versus free ammonia.
When I set up my betta tank last year and it was cycling, the ammonia alert was green and the api test was at 4 ppm.

 

Huh. So that would seem to indicate you have a lot of bound versus free ammonia.
When I set up my betta tank last year and it was cycling, the ammonia alert was green and the api test was at 4 ppm.

Hmm so what do I do about this?

 

Got red lava rocks today after rinsing them off stuck them in the filter; A aqua clear 70 with a big pre-filter spong on the intake. I had to remove the feather rock so I just stuck them in a corner. They look nice so I might have to work them in the tank setup.

 

Did about a 30% water change yesterday or the day at before,I honestly can't remember. The ammonia alert has stayed at the "safe" color throughout the last week or so. Today the API test kit reads the ammonia level as 1.0ppm in room lighting but in sunlight it's either 0.25ppm or maybe even 0. I think it is probably the former because of all the trumpet snails climbing the glass.

 

Tested my water today after seeing a Cory flashing and my Raindowfish looked to be breathing heavy. Ammonia is still at 1.0ppm. Is anybody still here?

 

Yeah, still here but I have no clue!

 

Yeah, still here but I have no clue!

Lol at least Im not alone.

 

OK so today my api test kit says either 0.50ppm or 0.25ppm. So it has gone down with me doing nothing but feeding my fish. No water changes since last wensday. The ammonia alert has never changed.

 

Still a mystery but then I’m not a chemist to be able to help with some theories. .
Hopefully it continues to go and stay down!