Can't decide if this is ich or not
Advertisement
Ok SMurray
You have the pictures and can see the fish in real life.
In less than 24 hours you will see more spots if it’s ich. Take more pictures tomorrow and the next day. Watch for any increase in spots.
Currently I don’t see enough spots to kill a healthy fish. Sadly a healthy fish can still be swimming with hundreds of spots on it. It could just be the pictures not letting me see inside the gills. Before death an otherwise healthy fish can have thousands of the ich parasites ON it .
I do see a fish with a rather sad looking tail and other fins. To my eyes that looks like old damage that has not been given to fresh water and quality foods a fish needs to heal itself. Damage from transport but also possibly other fish nipping and ammonia burns from pour water quality again possibly from transport time in a bag? Edit time before you had control over the water quality.
An angel of that size is $15 to $25 Australian but has a 30 day guarantee in my country.
You can only try asking for a replacement, I guess?
Sorry I have no definite answer.
I don’t think that’s ich but watch closely over the next few days and have the medication ( malachite green ) ready should you need it.
Multiple water changes will help avoid a second infection on those damaged fins as they grow back.
You have the pictures and can see the fish in real life.
In less than 24 hours you will see more spots if it’s ich. Take more pictures tomorrow and the next day. Watch for any increase in spots.
Currently I don’t see enough spots to kill a healthy fish. Sadly a healthy fish can still be swimming with hundreds of spots on it. It could just be the pictures not letting me see inside the gills. Before death an otherwise healthy fish can have thousands of the ich parasites ON it .
I do see a fish with a rather sad looking tail and other fins. To my eyes that looks like old damage that has not been given to fresh water and quality foods a fish needs to heal itself. Damage from transport but also possibly other fish nipping and ammonia burns from pour water quality again possibly from transport time in a bag? Edit time before you had control over the water quality.
An angel of that size is $15 to $25 Australian but has a 30 day guarantee in my country.
You can only try asking for a replacement, I guess?
Sorry I have no definite answer.
I don’t think that’s ich but watch closely over the next few days and have the medication ( malachite green ) ready should you need it.
Multiple water changes will help avoid a second infection on those damaged fins as they grow back.
Advertisement
Thanks for the input. I got 2 angels, 6 neon tetras, and 3 cory cats from Petsmart, so I'm not sure how the tanks were maintained, but I'm kinda feeling like they weren't well taken care of. One of the 2 angels and 2 of the 3 corys died, so I'm looking for signs as to why. I wasn't sure if this was just the designs on the fish or not. I change my water weekly, so maybe it will begin to get healthier. I will monitor another day or so for additional spots before treating with anything.
I have been looking at the angel again since your response. I think you're right. It looks like the tail and the side fins all have damage. I didn't notice that when I purchased it. I'm gonna have to pay closer attention to that from now on. I am now thinking that the care of these fish had been lacking, and that may be what's wrong rather than ich. It doesn't look like my other angel isn't doing so great either.
I have been looking at the angel again since your response. I think you're right. It looks like the tail and the side fins all have damage. I didn't notice that when I purchased it. I'm gonna have to pay closer attention to that from now on. I am now thinking that the care of these fish had been lacking, and that may be what's wrong rather than ich. It doesn't look like my other angel isn't doing so great either.
Well it may not have been ich and I have no clue, but there was some kind of fast killing disease. Both angels, 2 of the 3 cory cats, and now a Dwarf gourami that was in the same tank have died....all from Saturday evening to Tuesday morning. And I have no clue ☹️
That’s a shame you may have added some “ fast killing disease “ with the eleven fish added straight into the tank with other fish .
A lesson for anyone reading this post to quarantine new fish even if it’s just a fortnight in a small separate tank.
I guess you have tested the water in the tank for ammonia?
With very limited medication sold in my country all I could do is lots of water changes. I would suggest you change large amounts of water daily for the sake of the other fish if you don’t have another plan?
A lesson for anyone reading this post to quarantine new fish even if it’s just a fortnight in a small separate tank.
I guess you have tested the water in the tank for ammonia?
With very limited medication sold in my country all I could do is lots of water changes. I would suggest you change large amounts of water daily for the sake of the other fish if you don’t have another plan?
I will do a water change this evening when I get home. This tank is a 10g that I originally had set up as a quarantine. But I did have a dwarf gourami in it. The only thing I added to my 55g is 2 snails, and I am praying that they didn't carry anything. They weren't in the same tank with the fish that I bought. However, they were in the same bag with the neon tetras for transport. If my fish in the 55g start dying, it will upset me. I have my rainbows, cherry barbs, danios, and some cory's in the 55g and have had it established for about a year now.
Advertisement
That's a lot of fish for a 10 g. I know it's only tempoary, but have you tested for Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? If it was cycled to handle the waste of one gourami, it will not be able to immeadiately handle all the fish you added. Even without testing, i'd be doing daily water changes from day 1.
No, I haven't tested. I didn't even think about the increased waste being too much. Do you think that could be what happened rather than disease? If so, I don't understand how it would've killed the angels and gourami (the bigger fish), but the smaller fish still be ok.
I will test this evening and do a water change just to be on the safe side. There are 6 neons, 1 cory cat, 1 mystery snail, and 1 molly left in the 10g.
- Messages
- 4,198
That's what I get for typing like crazy, posting and then coming back to read. 
Below is what I typed. It MIGHT still be relevant.= but ammonia, is extremely plausible for everything.
FishDin is correct, Ammonia burns could account for all of this, and is a simple answer, much more likely than what I thought below.
original post.....
There's a virus found in angelfish from the 1980s that wiped out a lot of fish, like 80%+ of those infected, it was like a plague and there's been some reports on here this winter from a few that came across it.
In the hobby we call it angelfish aids, it's been identified as viral hematopoietic necrosis (VHN), (translates something like "viral caused blood cell death")
It can be confused with Ich or parasites at first, but instead of it taking a while for ich or parasite symptoms to get progressively worse, the fish rapidly declines in a couple days to death, the fish usually gets ragged fins and a dull mucous coating over their bodies, they get white spots and usually sit "nose up" and can be on the top or bottom but usually sitting on the bottom of the tank, unlike with gill flukes where the fish will always be at the surface.
With VHN it can look like parasites or ich at first, the fish rapidly declines, and then organ failure and death, all in just a coupe days.
the immune system kind of fails with the virus, opening the fish up to secondary infections,
the virus takes hold, blood circulation declines which causes the rough appearance of skin and fins,
and then bloodcells collapse and organs fail and the fish dies in the majority of the cases.
The other fish types being sick too though,,,, I'm not sure about, Discus get it, so do angels, I've heard of gourami getting it. never catfish though....... I'm thinking the catfish might have been unrelated cause of death though.
I was thinking Lymphocystivirus, but it wouldn't touch the cories either. if it were Lymphocystis it looks rough but the fish rarely dies from it it's mostly cosmetic and tiny pus bubble cysts that heals up in a couple weeks and goes away.
I think this is what your angels had though, VHN "angelfish aids" and if so, you are pretty stuck for like 6 months before getting more angels or anything that had died from this outbreak in your tank just to be safe or you risk new fish getting infected, the virus can survive in the tank for somewhere between 3 and 6 months. you'd need to break everything down, and sanitize with lysol everything then clean it up again to remove the lysol after it's killed off the viruses, and even then if you aren't thorough and miss something the virus can still be there. Most people write the date down, keep what they know don't have an issue with the virus, and watch the calandar for 6 months before trying again any of the species that were affected from this outbreak.
Some try again after 3 months of waiting. and have had success, but also some have had reinfections.
Safe and easy bet is to wait the full 6 months and just steer clear of the species you know were affected.
For sure, no angels and no discus. cichlids in general will be a risk, the gouramis are likely off the table unless you can chalk it up to a different cause. the cories...... That still perplexes me. might have been something else that caused that....
Below is what I typed. It MIGHT still be relevant.= but ammonia, is extremely plausible for everything. FishDin is correct, Ammonia burns could account for all of this, and is a simple answer, much more likely than what I thought below.
original post.....
There's a virus found in angelfish from the 1980s that wiped out a lot of fish, like 80%+ of those infected, it was like a plague and there's been some reports on here this winter from a few that came across it.
In the hobby we call it angelfish aids, it's been identified as viral hematopoietic necrosis (VHN), (translates something like "viral caused blood cell death")
It can be confused with Ich or parasites at first, but instead of it taking a while for ich or parasite symptoms to get progressively worse, the fish rapidly declines in a couple days to death, the fish usually gets ragged fins and a dull mucous coating over their bodies, they get white spots and usually sit "nose up" and can be on the top or bottom but usually sitting on the bottom of the tank, unlike with gill flukes where the fish will always be at the surface.
With VHN it can look like parasites or ich at first, the fish rapidly declines, and then organ failure and death, all in just a coupe days.
the immune system kind of fails with the virus, opening the fish up to secondary infections,
the virus takes hold, blood circulation declines which causes the rough appearance of skin and fins,
and then bloodcells collapse and organs fail and the fish dies in the majority of the cases.
The other fish types being sick too though,,,, I'm not sure about, Discus get it, so do angels, I've heard of gourami getting it. never catfish though....... I'm thinking the catfish might have been unrelated cause of death though.
I was thinking Lymphocystivirus, but it wouldn't touch the cories either. if it were Lymphocystis it looks rough but the fish rarely dies from it it's mostly cosmetic and tiny pus bubble cysts that heals up in a couple weeks and goes away.
I think this is what your angels had though, VHN "angelfish aids" and if so, you are pretty stuck for like 6 months before getting more angels or anything that had died from this outbreak in your tank just to be safe or you risk new fish getting infected, the virus can survive in the tank for somewhere between 3 and 6 months. you'd need to break everything down, and sanitize with lysol everything then clean it up again to remove the lysol after it's killed off the viruses, and even then if you aren't thorough and miss something the virus can still be there. Most people write the date down, keep what they know don't have an issue with the virus, and watch the calandar for 6 months before trying again any of the species that were affected from this outbreak.
Some try again after 3 months of waiting. and have had success, but also some have had reinfections.
Safe and easy bet is to wait the full 6 months and just steer clear of the species you know were affected.
For sure, no angels and no discus. cichlids in general will be a risk, the gouramis are likely off the table unless you can chalk it up to a different cause. the cories...... That still perplexes me. might have been something else that caused that....
Thanks for the input. There are still the 6 neons, 1 molly, and 1 cory in that 10g tank. So, I'm going to do a water change when I get home from work, and then I will test daily and see if it's spiking.That's what I get for typing like crazy, posting and then coming back to read.
FishDin is correct, Ammonia burns could account for all of this, and is a simple answer, much more likely than what I thought below.
There's a virus found in angelfish from the 1980s that wiped out a lot of fish, like 80%+ of those infected, it was like a plague and there's been some reports on here this winter from a few that came across it.
In the hobby we call it angelfish aids, it's been identified as viral hematopoietic necrosis (VHN), (translates something like "viral caused blood cell death")
It can be confused with Ich or parasites at first, but instead of it taking a while for ich or parasite symptoms to get progressively worse, the fish rapidly declines in a couple days to death, the fish usually gets ragged fins and a dull mucous coating over their bodies, they get white spots and usually sit "nose up" and can be on the top or bottom but usually sitting on the bottom of the tank, unlike with gill flukes where the fish will always be at the surface.
With VHN it can look like parasites or ich at first, the fish rapidly declines, and then organ failure and death, all in just a coupe days.
the immune system kind of fails with the virus, opening the fish up to secondary infections,
the virus takes hold, blood circulation declines which causes the rough appearance of skin and fins,
and then bloodcells collapse and organs fail and the fish dies in the majority of the cases.
The other fish types being sick too though,,,, I'm not sure about, Discus get it, so do angels, I've heard of gourami getting it. never catfish though....... I'm thinking the catfish might have been unrelated cause of death though.
I was thinking Lymphocystivirus, but it wouldn't touch the cories either. if it were Lymphocystis it looks rough but the fish rarely dies from it it's mostly cosmetic and tiny pus bubble cysts that heals up in a couple weeks and goes away.
I think this is what your angels had though, VHN "angelfish aids" and if so, you are pretty stuck for like 6 months before getting more angels or anything that had died from this outbreak in your tank just to be safe or you risk new fish getting infected, the virus can survive in the tank for somewhere between 3 and 6 months. you'd need to break everything down, and sanitize with lysol everything then clean it up again to remove the lysol after it's killed off the viruses, and even then if you aren't thorough and miss something the virus can still be there. Most people write the date down, keep what they know don't have an issue with the virus, and watch the calandar for 6 months before trying again any of the species that were affected from this outbreak.
Some try again after 3 months of waiting. and have had success, but also some have had reinfections.
Safe and easy bet is to wait the full 6 months and just steer clear of the species you know were affected.
For sure, no angels and no discus. cichlids in general will be a risk, the gouramis are likely off the table unless you can chalk it up to a different cause. the cories...... That still perplexes me. might have been something else that caused that....
I had intended to do that anyway, but I thought since I done a water change before adding the new fish that I had a couple days before I needed to. But I didn't consider that all those fish could cause a spike quickly. I guess if my other fish that are still alive make it through this, I need to buy smaller amounts at a time to quarantine and move.
I hate I didn't think about that before I bought so many at once. It's a lesson learned for sure!
If the others still die even with testing and water changes, then I guess I will know that it was some type of disease and then I will definitely sanitize before starting over.
- Messages
- 12,262
I remember the angelfish aids.I don’t remember the fish getting the ich like pimples. That angel looks like it came from a typical pet something shop where nothing is taken care of. The angels and corys dying is what brings me to this. I’d say the store tank had too many fish and was lacking in water changes. They probably removed all the dead fish in the morn without a water change. The fins look bad like fin rot. The white node like pimple is a sure sign of bad water quality. So what I think and hope (cause another angelfish plague would be terrible) is when you brought the fish home into their new tank they brought whatever was in those tanks with them. Your clean water caused more stress to the incoming fish and they just started dying. Thus possibly creating a high ammonia in the tank which in turn killed the gourami. Was the gourami I there for health reasons? I’ve also read and saw pics of another angelfish where the same thing happened. It also was bought from pet something.
My first thought was ich, but then it didn't turn into more spots. Then last night, I did look up fin rot. But I've never dealt with either, so I really wasn't sure. The gourami had been in there for 6 or 8 months. I had just never moved it to my 55g. I was actually thinking of keeping it in the 10g with the neons, but now all I have left is the neons, a molly, and a cory in the 10g.
I guess at this point all I can do is test daily and do water changes and hope the rest live.
If they don't survive, I guess I will empty the tank, clean and sanitize, and start over.
I guess at this point all I can do is test daily and do water changes and hope the rest live.
If they don't survive, I guess I will empty the tank, clean and sanitize, and start over.
Well the other fish are all still alive. The only ones that have died at this point are the 2 angels, the gourami, and 2 corys. I just checked my readings, and the ammonia (.25-.50) and nitrates (20 - 40) are high, so I'm gonna do a 75% water change. Guess we'll see what happens.
Random Great Topic!
Today's Deals
Advertisement
Advertisement